samsung 275T

In actuality, IPS panels are known to have slightly higher response time, and lower input lag than most VA type panels. TN panels have lower input lag, and lower listed response times, but they are not devoid of ghosting and motion blur inherent in all current LCD technology. The BenQ G2400W I had for a while had 0 to 5ms input lag which is tremendous.

My Dell 2005FPW (S-IPS) has lower input lag than both my Westinghouse L2410NM and my BenQ FP241VW (both VA panels). The Dell is in the low 20s whereas the BenQ is in the high 30s and the Westinghouse is just under 50 on average. But in use, I can feel slight lag with the Westy, but not on the BenQ FP241VW or Dell.

In fact, I have only seen ONE VA type panel with less than 30 ms least input lag and that is the LG L245/246WP model.

Additionally, it's often that the electronics involved in displaying an image can cause extraneous input lag. For example, my L2410NM has higher input lag than the BenQ, BUT it does a better job anti aliasing lower than native resolutions, so it seems like it is doing more work than the BenQ, even though at native resolution the BenQ is faster, but not as fast as the LG I have mentioned. At lower than native resolution, the Westinghouse shows no additional lag to what it does at full native resolution or at 1920x1080 (1080p).

And yes, it does have HDCP 5.0 Capri.

10e
 
Also, one last thing concerning input lag.

A crossfire or SLI setup has more input lag due to the work involved in co-ordinating and displaying frames than a single card setup, which adds to the monitor's input lag, and reduces responsiveness.

Regards,

10e
 
I assume this will only be evident in games when SLI is activated, and not on all the time?

Surely this added lag would be relatively minor compared to the input lag differences between screens?
 
Correct,

Only when Crossfire or SLI is activated and being used. Otherwise one card should not introduce any additional lag outside of frame rendering speeds (which are quite variable).

Regards,

10e
 
It could be helping.... or it could just be placebo...

but, for you Nvidia users, try using the newest series of drivers and setting "Maximum pre rendered frames" to 0 .... In swear over the 2 weeks it has helped my COD4 scores. I should set to clone and take some input lag comparison shots.
 
Guys,

My PC finally arrived today. I also ordered the Planar PX2611W today. The reason, I intended to order the Samsung 275T+ , but CDW isn't expecting them until 4-13.

I'll post my opinion on the planar when I can.

Raz
 
I just bought two Samsung 275Ts. They have a truly monumentally Disgusting amount of input lag. It is truly shocking. I had two Samsung 245Ts before this which were already really quite bad - but this is so much worse I'm returning the monitors tomorrow.

You can see my other thread about the decision of which 30" panel to go so dont worry about replying to suggest one here, but suffice to say anyone considering buying a 275T should seriously ask themselves these questions:

a) do I enjoy pain
b) do I enjoy the thought of my monitor cable being turned into a 75ms delay network link and my PC being turned into a terminal server
c) do I enjoy wasting money
d) do I enjoy the feeling of laggy wireless peripherals? (if you already have laggy wireless peripherals, that plus this monitor, will make you have unbelievable amounts of lag)

unless the answer to all 4 is yes, look elsewhere for all of your 2D and 3D needs. Ugh. Quality means nothing when you have 75ms between you and the screen, that is just ridiculous. The 245Ts were hitting 55, 65ms delay I can't believe the 275Ts are worse.

Death to S-PVA!!!!!!

apologies to all current 275T owners. Lol.
heres a link showing the crappy input lag on the 245Ts, let alone the worse 275Ts:
http://www.lesnumeriques.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=36&mo1=233&p1=2157&ma2=53&ph=12

(ps yes Im aware the compared-to Philips is a TN panel but all that does is show you something close to a CRT benchmark)
Trav
 
Well, S-IPS panels are good but black is generally poor compared to S-PVA.
Input lag is only one of many factors to look for.
Personally, I have a 275T and I find to input lag to be non existent or at worst minimal. In fact, the input lag was much worst with my Dell 2405FPW.

I connected yesterday my PC to a Pioneer Plasma Kuro PDP-5010FD (50" of 1920*1080 goodness - $$$$$$) and this is the best TV/monitor I have ever seen. Black is almost perfect and there is no input lag nor backlight bleeding (impossible with Plasma). Crysis just looked amazing! I doubt that we will ever see a LCD that matches this performance...
 
I have seen a few 275Ts posting over 75ms of input lag against a CRT, with 60ms+ the Average, that isnt really 'non existent'. 0-12ms is pretty much the limit of non-existent/un-noticeable.

The 245Ts hit 65ms also max,

I have heard the 2405FPW was really bad though as well, but I honestly think if you do like I did and hook a CRT up next to the 275T and even just drag the mouse around a bit, you'll see what I mean....ugh. This is the BIG catch with Samsung panels 245T,275T,305T - they seemed a bit good to be true; awesome colours, great contrast, great size per $....then you realise....S-PVA plus heavy preprocessing to achieve the above = mass input lag. No good. I cant personally verify that statement for the 305T, but I certainly can for the 245T and the 275T. Awful lag and its not just one example its all of them.

Trav
 
Man, I just don't get "input lag" on LCDs. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I just have never seen it. I had a Dell 2405 and played Half-Life 2, Doom 3, Chronicles of Riddick and countless other games. NEVER did I notice anything remotely similar to input lag. Maybe my eyes have become accustomed to viewing LCDs after so many years. I haven't used a CRT since 2000.

I can't speak to the 275T's input lag, but I've not seen any complaints about the 305T. Everyone who's got a 305T seems to love it.
 
You HAVE just got used to it :D. I had a 2405fpw and thought input lag didn't exist for ages. Hooked up my same mouse to a CRT.... :eek:. Pure bliss...

Seriously, you have just been made used to the pain of input lag, doesn't mean its not there :D

Btw, the person who had the 2405fpw, does it really feel more laggy than the 275T? I was considering a 2707wfp, but wanted to make sure input lag wasn't a serious problem.
 
It would sure be nice if an Input Lag utility meter existed. Does this exist?

Raz
 
The closest thing to an input and display lag meter I've seen is Yelnat's input lag tester, but it's not necessarily a "numbers" application. It shows the difference on a screen where one monitor is behind another.

Regarding the 275T, I've seen 33 to 30ms lag (as tested by Prad.de) and I saw on the 275T+ that it's actually faster than a Samsung 906bw TN panel according to EricH. He thought it was slower, but from his photos it's actually faster.

Alternatively, the dual monitor "cloned" config has shown me some inconsistencies where some video cards show different levels of lag between monitor 1 and 2.

Very strange.

10e
 
10e said:
Regarding the 275T, I've seen 33 to 30ms lag (as tested by Prad.de) and I saw on the 275T+ that it's actually faster than a Samsung 906bw TN panel according to EricH. He thought it was slower, but from his photos it's actually faster.
Click to expand...

Are you saying you think the 275T+ is faster than the 275T?

Raz
 
10e said:
The closest thing to an input and display lag meter I've seen is Yelnat's input lag tester, but it's not necessarily a "numbers" application. It shows the difference on a screen where one monitor is behind another.

Regarding the 275T, I've seen 33 to 30ms lag (as tested by Prad.de) and I saw on the 275T+ that it's actually faster than a Samsung 906bw TN panel according to EricH. He thought it was slower, but from his photos it's actually faster.

Alternatively, the dual monitor "cloned" config has shown me some inconsistencies where some video cards show different levels of lag between monitor 1 and 2.

Very strange.

10e
Click to expand...

no - the 275T+ is not faster than my 906BW. i just sent it back yesterday. i loved it's image quality, contrast, and black levels. however i could not live with the input lag and ghosting. as i said in that same post, it felt like i was drunk playing css on the 275T+.

as for the pictures, i'm guessing that the shutter speed on my phone's camera is too slow. perhaps it was capturing numbers from a previous second.

without doing "scientific" testing, i'd say the input lag on the 275T+ is around 2 frames, just like the 275T.
 
Great question,

I would think the answer is no, due to the fact that (by nature) calling it a 275t+ means same electronics and internal components. I'm just very curious by nature with all the conflicting reports of anywhere between 33 and 75ms input lag. Though, taking EricH's info into account it does look to be quicker than some people seem to think around here.

My interest in this thread is in fact that if the 275T/275T+ are truly around 33ms lag then I would be favoring this monitor as an almost perfect screen outside of the horizontal gamma shift typical of VA type panels. For gaming I have an ultra-fast/no lag BenQ G2400W monitor, which I'm committed to keeping, but I wouldn't mind pairing it up with the 275T+

I like the reviews I've read on it, and the + having the extra HDMI would make it a good screen to watch BluRay from PS3 as well as PC and Xbox 360 use.

For me anything above 50ms is unusable. I am pretty good at spotting input lag of over two frames, and can generally get under 200ms on the human reaction tests I've tried with my BenQ FP241VW, and under 190ms average (with the lowest being 150ms fairly regularly) on the G2400W.

Additionally, I would test this monitor vs. my CRT, as testing two LCDs in clone mode (for input lag) can give a wide variety of results, based on the fact that 60hz refresh is 16.66ms and can cause a fairly wide variation in results.

It's just that I have to decide what I'm pairing up with the "G" and what I'm going to sell in order to have a config that I'll use for a few years (until OLED gains popularity, I hope) and a wide gamut panel with good color tracking sounds attractive. While I favour IPS technologies, it seems that (up in Canada) they are more difficult to obtain.

Regards,

10e

Razmo said:
Are you saying you think the 275T+ is faster than the 275T?

Raz
Click to expand...
 
I believe you completely, but where my question lies is how much input lag there truly is, and I do believe that 2 frames is a good estimate. It is very possible that your camera is playing tricks. I have a Canon A570 IS and S3 IS which have good shutter speed control (up to 1/1000 I believe) where I could see what the true value is.

Like I said, I am willing to find out vs. CRT or BenQ G2400W which I've tested as having (maximum) 5ms vs. CRT.

Two frames of input lag is fine with me, as the FP241VW I have is exactly 1 to 2 frames behind the G2400W. I don't worry about interpolation lag, as I would set the 8800GTS or 3870x2 to scale.

I guess my other big concern is the 275T+ handling Xbox 360 over VGA (which the G2400W does not do well at 1920x1080) and PS3 over 1080p. I just want to be able to use the 275T+ without 16:9 > 16:10 stretching, not just PC use.

Thanks for the info EricH. Sorry to hear that you are sending the Samsung back. No more drunk CSS :)

Regards,

10e

erich said:
no - the 275T+ is not faster than my 906BW. i just sent it back yesterday. i loved it's image quality, contrast, and black levels. however i could not live with the input lag and ghosting. as i said in that same post, it felt like i was drunk playing css on the 275T+.

as for the pictures, i'm guessing that the shutter speed on my phone's camera is too slow. perhaps it was capturing numbers from a previous second.

without doing "scientific" testing, i'd say the input lag on the 275T+ is around 2 frames, just like the 275T.
Click to expand...
 
ironically, i am considering getting the G2400W for it's responsiveness. i've been reading your comments on it :) i received the doublesight ds-263n a couple days ago, and although it is much better than the 275T+, it still does not compare to my 906BW in terms of ghosting.

specifically, with the ds-263n it sucks when i move the screen quickly, because i have to wait a little bit to see what it is i'm looking at.

however, the ds-263n is more than good enough for multiplayer warcraft3 (at least non-professional)..because there is not much input lag.

it could be more than 2 frames lag for the 275T+, but if so not by much. the contrast shift that everyone hates in pva panels was not that bad imo on that screen
 
I can assure you that the G2400W does not ghost from what I can tell.

Motion blur is there (like any LCD), but no ghosting whatsoever. I have taken a large white cursor and moved it around various solid color screens and noticed a tiny tiny bit of trailing, but no ghosting.

It seems you are going through the monitor musical chairs as well. :)

I will decide about the 275T+ tomorrow. I have a very large tax return coming next month so cost is not an issue right now, and I would be very willing to pair up the 275T+ with the G2400W for the ultimate in full function goodness.

Regards, and thanks for the info.

10e

erich said:
ironically, i am considering getting the G2400W for it's responsiveness. i've been reading your comments on it :) i received the doublesight ds-263n a couple days ago, and although it is much better than the 275T+, it still does not compare to my 906BW in terms of ghosting.

specifically, with the ds-263n it sucks when i move the screen quickly, because i have to wait a little bit to see what it is i'm looking at.

however, the ds-263n is more than good enough for multiplayer warcraft3 (at least non-professional)..because there is not much input lag.

it could be more than 2 frames lag for the 275T+, but if so not by much. the contrast shift that everyone hates in pva panels was not that bad imo on that screen
Click to expand...
 
what is the difference between ghosting and motion blur? i've always looked at them as the same concept..so when i said "does not compare to my 906BW in terms of ghosting" maybe i meant to say motion blur...but that all depends on what the terms mean !
 
Both are well controlled by the "G", but I see ghosting as a trail of a slightly more transparent image (either normal or inverse as in the case of the 2407WFP-HC). I don't see much of this on the G unless I'm moving my Razer mouse at warp speed back and forth.

If you look at the following link you can see the difference on this site between the 245T and the BenQ in text rendering:

http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=36&mo1=332&p1=3107&ma2=48&mo2=304&p2=2943&ph=9

The Samsung has a distinct "ghosted" version of the text whereas the BenQ doesn't.

Motion blur is more a defacto issue with LCDs where they display a fully static image that is not "refreshed" but held until it's changed and redrawn by a top to bottom "change". This coupled with visible screen update delay (in milliseconds) causes an appearance of slight blur. It's a 60hz cycle of hold > move > hold > move (called "sample and hold"). This is why a video card with v-sync off will show tearing. The video card has sent an extra image to the display between 60hz frames.

CRTs don't do this as much because of a "refreshed" image that must be periodically pulsed/redrawn onto the display (where there is a period of darkening between frames) giving more of a "separation" between frames, which appears to have little or no blur. But that darkening can show up in flicker. Remember the old CRT monitors where you HAD to set the monitor/video card to 70 or higher hertz? It's because it's being redrawn and then darkens, and that redrawing rate at 60hz just wasn't fast enough to make up for the in-between darkening.

I'm not sure if this is a good technical response but if anyone has a better one I'd love to see it.

Hope that gives you a good idea EricH.

Regards,

10e

erich said:
what is the difference between ghosting and motion blur? i've always looked at them as the same concept..so when i said "does not compare to my 906BW in terms of ghosting" maybe i meant to say motion blur...but that all depends on what the terms mean !
Click to expand...
 
hmm..well i think perhaps the difference is that ghosting refers to seeing a trail of the previous frames on a monitor, whereas motion blur refers to the general occurrence of seeing a blurry image in motion - whether on a screen or in a photograph or video (or whatever).

the reason why lcds inherently have at least a little ghosting/motion blur is that the pixels do not change until the next update comes, whereas a crt shows it briefly and then shows nothing until the next update. due to persistence of vision, the image remains in our head for awhile and overlaps with the next frame. the image on a crt is shown for a short time so you have some time (looking at a black screen) until the next update for you to "get the image out of your head". although i think there is still some overlap on a crt?

anyway, back to the G2400W - how is the contrast on it? if you have a real number that would be great :eek: also how is the backlight bleed?
 
Contrast is good, but not massive. It's not a dynamic contrast panel with inflated contrast numbers.

Digital versus has it measured between 700 to 1 and I'd say it's a very realistic number.

BLB is very low. My first unit had less, but this one is right down there. Additionally, unlike other panels (FHD2400) there is basically no heat to cause increase in BLB over time. It hasn't changed one bit since purchase.

On www.drainweb.com the reviewer (in their HD gaming showdown) talks about the fact that the G had best blacks in the comparo.

There is nothing spectacular about this panel. It is a standard gamut, accurately calibrated panel with decent contrast, good blacks, low BLB and decent viewing angles (good for a TN).

I plan to put up a review this weekend or soon after with some complimentary photos to give all a better "taste". It will include visuals, pros, cons, and input lag shots to show off the goods and bads.

Regards,

10e
 
I just bought the 275T+ and it should arrive in maybe 3-5 business days. I was stuck on CRT for a lot of reasons, but the reviews on this thing were quite impressive. It is actually my first non-CRT monitor (been doing a lot of photo work with a few CRTs for 9 years), so I'm likely going to notice some disadvantages, but it's big, and just overall looks better than a TN. I'll be running both the CRT and this new 275T+ side by side, and if you guys want, I'll try to post some pics or opinions on how they compare.

I've done some research on some of the issues brought up, and quite frankly, I would probably be happier if I hadn't, since now I have this thing in the back of my mind that will be searching for defects rather than noticing the benefits. Chances are, I'll be happy with the display anyway, but I'll post my reaction here if you want. Is posting pictures ok on this forum, or should I link to them, or is it generally frowned upon to have them in posts?

Newegg price for this was $889.99+$24.99 shipping; tax-free.
 
Pics are nice, and ok in post (keep image size reasonable <-me still using 932BW+ 19", please).


Also, may want to start checking the last post date not to ressurect dead threads.

Welcome:)
 
swingdjted said:
I just bought the 275T+ and it should arrive in maybe 3-5 business days. I was stuck on CRT for a lot of reasons, but the reviews on this thing were quite impressive. It is actually my first non-CRT monitor (been doing a lot of photo work with a few CRTs for 9 years), so I'm likely going to notice some disadvantages, but it's big, and just overall looks better than a TN. I'll be running both the CRT and this new 275T+ side by side, and if you guys want, I'll try to post some pics or opinions on how they compare.

I've done some research on some of the issues brought up, and quite frankly, I would probably be happier if I hadn't, since now I have this thing in the back of my mind that will be searching for defects rather than noticing the benefits. Chances are, I'll be happy with the display anyway, but I'll post my reaction here if you want. Is posting pictures ok on this forum, or should I link to them, or is it generally frowned upon to have them in posts?

Newegg price for this was $889.99+$24.99 shipping; tax-free.
Click to expand...

Congrats; I would like to hear your feed-back, because I am thinking of buying this or the 27 inch Dell.

Dave

PS: You did the right thing by posting to this thread. That way we keep all of the info in the same place.

Thanks!
 
GAH!!!

My first reaction was that this thing is blinding bright at the out-of-box settings! That's not a problem since there are relatively easy ways to make it better, and having it that bright makes it better at a distance for when I'm not at the computer chair.

The design of it won't win any beauty contests as it's just a simple frame with buttons and a stand. It's almost all screen and no boarder. This is what I was looking for in terms of a basic large screen, so that's a plus.

The display area runs at a temperature that is almost burning hot. I had originally planned on having it in an enclosed area beside an already warm CRT, and now I know I have to either vent that area, or add an exhaust fan, which won't be too hard, since the whole workstation area is home-made out of lumber. In the coldest of winter, I'm guessing you won't need to run the heat if this monitor is on...

Not to take sides on the 10 pages of input lag arguing, but here's my observation on it from what I've seen today (first day having it): It is evident/noticeable, even without having the CRT on beside it, but I only notice it on games. I have tried to make make it happen on scrolling a web page or sudden mouse movement/window dragging, but I can't seem to make it fall behind there. I can only notice it when I change my viewing direction on a game. If I quickly slide the mouse to turn my character's head, the screen reacts quite noticeably late. If you would like a screen for gaming where timing is important, I regret to say this likely is not the best choice in my opinion. Adding the CRT side-by-side makes it even more noticeable, but still only on games so far. As noted in an earlier post, it's not something that is easily compensated for either, because sometimes it's almost 'right on' and sometimes it's very late - very inconsistent.

Angle viewing is about the same as looking at it from directly in front - very good. Contrast is almost too good, but only too bright when I'm sitting close where I can make a preset to make it more acceptable, and black is dark enough to make it nearly disappear in a totally dark room. It's more than enough contrast for me, even though I'm coming from a CRT. Fullscreen black and even grays are pretty consistent throughout the display.

There is no cable management clip on the stand. I didn't notice that when I was buying it, but now I have to find a better way to route the wiring. It's a noteworthy disappointment but not a deal-breaker though. :(

I bought this screen mostly for media editing/publication production, something that is an important part of my job, and I honestly believe this to be a rather ideal choice for it. The detail that can be viewed on this screen really is quite amazing, to the point where it ruins less-than-perfect pictures, especially those not in perfect focus or with slight image-noise, which helps me more quickly pick which of multiple shots is best to start working with. Having a large 1920x1200 S-PVA display really does make photo work very easy and accurate.

Right now, this monitor is just hooked up to a rather old computer. I'm working on a new build with RAM that won't be available until Sept. 30 plus shipping time. When that's all finished I'll be able to tell you how it did with DVD/Blu-Ray movies and video editing. By then I'll probably also be able to say how it did with console games and non-computer video sources such as a VCR, camcorder, console games, etc. with the various inputs.

This is only my first day using this monitor, but so far I really think it was a good choice for me, even if I do have to stick with CRT for gaming that requires precision timing.

Pictures to come.
 
I never really noticed right away, but this monitor came with two stuck pixles that appear green. Is this fixable, or do I have to return it? Does Newegg pay return shipping when this happens? I wouldn't mind getting another of the same monitor in exchange, but I don't want the annoyance of these stuck pixels, so I'd really like to return it.
 
I've had a 275T for a year now. Would never go smaller. Gaming on this thing is a dream. Colors and viewing angles are awesome.

Input Lag? Sorry, don't notice it. It must be an ego thing.

Anyone sitting on the fence about this monitor should pull the trigger, you won't be disappointed.
 
Yeah, sadly the input lag difference is very clear when CRT vs. sPVA are side by side while cloned, which is upsetting, because I'd rather do the first person shooter games on the bigger monitor. The picture doesn't show it because it was just a desktop shot. The smaller monitor is an old Dell 17" CRT monitor at 1600x1200, while the 27" Samsung is at 1920x1200.

As far as the requested pictures, I'll toss in one (800x600):



I'd like to put in more, as this obviously doesn't do the monitor justice, but this at least shows it. There are more pics of the new workstation at this thread/post:

http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1033212311&postcount=41

I'm not very familiar with this forum, but hopefully the thumbnail preview will lead to a better resolution picture and the link will lead to the rest of the system (with additional pics of the 275T+). This camera that I took the pics with (Canon S5 IS) was a big disappointment and is just a horribly bloated point-and-shoot. I was hoping it would get my wife and I through some tough financial times while saving for a better DSLR, but as you can see from pics, it just, well, sucks.

More new criticism of the monitor: when there is a totally gray or black screen, there seems to be excessive light on the corners, in slightly lit 3-inch cone/oval blobs aiming towards the center of the screen. If you want, I'll try to get my camera to catch it. It's really not noticeable when just using the screen for general computer use, but it's a nitpicky, small, niggling annoyance when the screen has to go totally dark for a bit.
 
swingdjted, could you please run input lag test? You have a perfect rig for that :)
 
I've had a 275T for a year now. Would never go smaller. Gaming on this thing is a dream. Colors and viewing angles are awesome.

Input Lag? Sorry, don't notice it. It must be an ego thing.

Anyone sitting on the fence about this monitor should pull the trigger, you won't be disappointed.
Click to expand...

++1
 
I may have to give the input lag test a try. I'd be interested in knowing how much it is. I'll search for the procedure and clocking software, but if you post a link to it to help me out, I'll get it done and posted faster. It'll be an interesting little project.

One thing to keep in mind for the test - it seems that the lag is more noticeable when there are more colors/shapes on the screen, maybe because that stuff takes more time to process. During the timer test, depending on how much information the clock takes to process, the measurement may be less or more than what is normally experienced. Perhaps I'll upload a video clip and give a link to it comparing the two also.
 
Thank you for the links, I'll try this soon. I'm at work now so I obviously can't do it, but maybe tonight I'll give it a shot. Are there any camera gurus willing to make suggestions as to what manual settings to use when taking the pictures? I'm guessing the highest shutter speed and lowest ISO value that it'll allow while still making a readable result.

After reading the explanation of the term "output lag" on the lower end of the wikipedia article, it seems more fitting than the term "input lag". Another thing I noticed on the same article is the "gaming mode". This monitor does have one, but I don't know if it changes processing as stated in the article, or if it's just a color and contrast setting. Perhaps I should try testing it with that enabled as one of the variables, meaning: CRT would be control, 275T+ without gaming mode would be one variable, 275T+ with gaming mode enabled would be another variable.
 
Try 1/1000 s (1ms) shutter speed, it should be more than enough. ISO value you can choose after a few tries. Digital noise caused by high ISO values is not an issue because the main goal is to get readable timer values.
BTW number of readable shots should be rather great (~20) to statistically approve the input lag value.

If you also test gaming mode it would be great.
 
I apologize for not having it done yet - work has been quite crazy - I've been spending literally every waking hour (even working while eating) either at work, or at home doing stuff for work this past week.

The good news is that it's paying off by allowing me to have a free weekend, where hopefully I can do the screen tests.

By the way, thank you for the camera settings advice. It'll save me some experimenting time.
 
Pictures are done being taken using the Canon S5 IS on a tripod with the suggested settings. Unusable pictures were weeded out since the CRT monitor sometimes had an unreadable screen from the camera's view, and sometimes on the 275T+, the number was in the middle of changing and therefore showing two faded numbers overlapping each other in one digit's place). Shooting pictures continued until 20 good trials for 275T+'s non-game mode, and 20 good trials on its game mode were obtained. To avoid mixing up variables, a document saying "game mode" was displayed under the clock. An example trial of each variable follows:

Game Mode (this trial 50ms difference):


Not Game Mode (this trial 60ms difference):


The raw data was then entered into Excel which helped to quickly calculate the difference between the display speeds in addition to averaging the trials' results.

A third variable was explored - running a few more trials with Winamp's Milkdrop visualization as the desktop wallpaper, thinking the extra graphic colors and rapid movement of shapes/blobs would make a difference. It didn't. The measured output lag was consistent (no worse with the extra stuff) regardless of what displayed on the screen. Winamp trials were not recorded, since since a difference was not noticed.



Oddly enough, the values were in fact higher for "game mode", which could cause one to assume the game mode is not meant to reduce lag, but instead possibly just a color, contrast, brightness, etc. preset. As the charts show, output lag was measured to average from 41.5 milliseconds to 49 milliseconds depending on the preset setting.

The test confirms the difference in output lag between the two displays; however, whether or not it is noticeable to a human viewer is still debatable. Personally I think it is, but rather than looking at my subjective opinion, I decided to be more objective with some math work.

Most people complain about the lag when discussing "first person shooter" games. If a targeted enemy is running on foot at a perceived 18 miles per hour (26.4 ft/sec), the viewed onscreen character would be displayed at a perceived 1 foot and 4 inches behind where the game is attempting to place him (assuming output lag of 49ms). This could clearly cause a significant reduction in a player's shooting performance.

Using the same scenario, a jeep driving at 35 mph would be displayed a perceived 2 and a half feet behind the intended location. Since jeeps are big in comparison to that measurement, this might not be as much of an issue.

Another look using the same math - a WWII Zero plane traveling at 330 mph would be displayed a perceived 23 feet and 9 inches behind the game's intended position. This is also clearly a cause for concern.

Some say "just lead the target and aim ahead". That might or might not be effective, because the player might already also be compensating for ping and other lag factors as well.

Anyway, I hope this helps document the issue. If there is anything else I can do to test things out with this computer, let me know.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top