Murderbox? In my Greater Vancouver?

Status
Not open for further replies.
McCartney said:
What pic?
Click to expand...

Wow... just... wow...

Personally I'm a function over form guy. Like I posted earlier I prefer my P182 over the murderbox case but I do realise that boutique computers have a place in the market. The joy in piecing together your own dream rig and the feeling of money well spent when holding the Bentley of a computer built just for you are one and the same.

Extreme DIY'ers and high-end pre-built shops will always be at two sides of the ocean. That's just the way it is.
 
McCartney said:
Charles_h is some 20 something year old trying to defend his creation and justify 2000 dollars for his custom work. I find it astounding 2 people here are trying to incriminate Arcygenical and that pisses me off. You guys should STFU. Arcy helps more people on this forum than you do charles, and this isn't a pissing ground for you to sling your crapbox. Back off one of the most respected modders in this forum, we don't care who helped you don't push your shit here unless you pay Kyle.
Your Murderbox is overrated and lacks any sort real computer knowledge. Your english sucks too.
Click to expand...

LOL. Somebody got upset?
 
Of course I'm upset. It's like those idiots that come on the board during the 3870x2 launch and insult Kyle's testing methodology. Don't insult people that do so much for this forum and help others learn. It'd be one thing if Arcy didn't help others, but everytime people ask for casemods I see Arcy putting the most effort forth with a fully detailed explanation stating on how and why. I see that dedication from a handful of poeple on this form and it's our job to make sure that they stay here. People who try to defend a product with flamboyance and ignorance are the people that upset me here. I said my piece with legitimate arguments and it's not his place to call out a person who is basically the Case Mod God along with some other people.
 
Wow, my little "how much crap can you cram into a TJ07" machine was an inspiration, eh? :eek::D. Thanks!

I gotta say, your build surely came up with some really neat ideas, I like em! I cant wait to see the revised version of your build. And if someone wants to have a hot rod computer but lacks the skill or time for such a thing...what's wrong with a little $$ for you to provide it to them? :cool:
 
McCartney said:
Of course I'm upset. It's like those idiots that come on the board during the 3870x2 launch and insult Kyle's testing methodology. Don't insult people that do so much for this forum and help others learn. It'd be one thing if Arcy didn't help others, but everytime people ask for casemods I see Arcy putting the most effort forth with a fully detailed explanation stating on how and why. I see that dedication from a handful of poeple on this form and it's our job to make sure that they stay here. People who try to defend a product with flamboyance and ignorance are the people that upset me here. I said my piece with legitimate arguments and it's not his place to call out a person who is basically the Case Mod God along with some other people.
Click to expand...


McCartney, you really should stay off the forums when you are upset :D

If you want to be the English Policing Unit here at [H], you should at least use spellcheck yourself and learn that "poeple" is actually spelt "people", "english" is always spelled as "English", and "everytime" is actually two words, not one.

It's so touching when you feel such concern for his emotional well-being, that you need to come here and slam on myself, and Charles- someone who actually has the balls to put a product together and take it to market, and anyone else who's opinion differs from your hero, Arcygenical. Good Job!.

Seriously though, I realize that Arcy spends a lot of time here "helping" modders, but that doesn't mean he is the final word when it comes to modding. He just got to posts before I or others did. :)

Just because Arcy and I may have differing opinions here, not once have I put him down or discredited him in any way. And he has not discredited or put me down- which is why I continue to debate with him.

And you have no clue about custom design given your idea of how Murderbox was developed/prototyped/produced. If it's so easy, let's see YOUR creation. I'd love to know what innovations you have that hasn't been done already. You are criticizing someone who is a professional, yet you seem very keen to throw Arcy in the fire and say "Arcy can do a better job cheaper, faster and better?"

Puleeze grow the [F] up.
 
In addition to charles_h's comment, doing custom work on those cases (powder coating and not cheap painting, custom lasercutting, materials, sleeving and hours spent building them at a reasonable hourly rate) can easily get close to 1000-1500$ and don't forget to keep some amount to account for post-sale technical support, risk of RMA and paperwork... This doesn't get cheap and the only way to lower them is to build them in mass, which will lose the exclusive appeal that lots of people would like (think like Porsche owners not wanting to see a Porsche in every driveway). Not everyone is skilled at case modding and paying someone else to do is as rewarding (think of CyberDruid doing custom builds for lots of $$$).

Those are the things not everyone will understand and if you think you can pull the same feat yourself for cheaper, kudos to you but charles_h have the right to build and market for any price he think is fair. Look at Puget or Maingear top end computers and you will see that the Murderbox is cheap... Also, if you say that the selection of components is crappy, I guess the buyer is free to tell what he want to have in the box and built it following their desire.

So, stop threadcrapping and if you have nothing useful to say, stfu...

 
Arcygenical said:
You're getting incredibly side tracked.

What you said is completely true, but totally out of line with my original comment, the one that started all of this. All I stated was the fact that this system costs an enormous amount more than it would to do something comparable yourself.
Click to expand...

You are providing your opinion based on the fact that you have the ability, the equipment, the tools, the experience... and you are telling the community that "It's too expensive, build it yourself" based on your private modders paradise.

But you are misleading the masses. That is why I took to the other side of the fence. If you mod PC's all the time and show some skills (such as yourself), then your comments are valid. It is expensive.

But you are also telling me, that in general, it does not represent good value. Which is false.

Why is it false? Because I outlined all the other aspects/risks of this build that you chose to ignore "because you can personally do it yourself". You even toss out my points as an attempt to "Sidetrack".

I guarantee you, that if 99% of readers here tried to create their own "Murderbox", it would look unfinished and probably cost more money in the end as they try to go for that "designer" look. In the case mod gallery, there are rigs with excessive mods, performance and features- and how many of them can be compared to the Murderbox when put side-by-side (in person) with a price tag on it?
 
Xilikon said:
In addition to charles_h's comment, doing custom work on those cases (powder coating and not cheap painting, custom lasercutting, materials, sleeving and hours spent building them at a reasonable hourly rate) can easily get close to 1000-1500$ and don't forget to keep some amount to account for post-sale technical support, risk of RMA and paperwork... This doesn't get cheap and the only way to lower them is to build them in mass, which will lose the exclusive appeal that lots of people would like (think like Porsche owners not wanting to see a Porsche in every driveway). Not everyone is skilled at case modding and paying someone else to do is as rewarding (think of CyberDruid doing custom builds for lots of $$$).

Those are the things not everyone will understand and if you think you can pull the same feat yourself for cheaper, kudos to you but charles_h have the right to build and market for any price he think is fair. Look at Puget or Maingear top end computers and you will see that the Murderbox is cheap... Also, if you say that the selection of components is crappy, I guess the buyer is free to tell what he want to have in the box and built it following their desire.

So, stop threadcrapping and if you have nothing useful to say, stfu...

Click to expand...

You're comparing people that sell products with warranty and great service. When you buy a Voodoo you get top notch service, same goes for Falcon Northwest. This "murderbox" is nothing of the sort. You act like the fabrication itself is expensive. Who are you to judge how much his time costs? None of us are in the position to judge his cost in time. I won't STFU because he's defending his creation that is clearly good, but not as good as he says it is. His FUD about hardware is also more irritating. He thinks his service is equivalent to those companies that sell great PCs but also great service. This Muderbox is second to many boutique PCs that cost this much. You tell me to STFU yet you're the one trying to tell me how much his work costs, custom lacing? Dude, powdercoating may be much but it's not "time consuming". All of your statements regarding his fabrication are hilarious:
Lasercutting
Powdercoasting
sleeving
hours.

How many people here have powdercoated there cases? There quite a few here. Since when is Sleeving custom and cutting edge It never was. Lasercutting, OK that can get expensive, but not when you only have it in a few select places and build enough of them.
Money factor, probably. Time? No. This isn't something that takes long to BUILD, it may take some time to fabricate, however.
 
Awwww, so cute :p

I believe charles has every right to come to this thread and defend himself. Besides the one you are trying to protect is the one that started the whole thing...
 
McCartney said:
You're comparing people that sell products with warranty and great service. When you buy a Voodoo you get top notch service, same goes for Falcon Northwest. This "murderbox" is nothing of the sort. You act like the fabrication itself is expensive. Who are you to judge how much his time costs? None of us are in the position to judge his cost in time. I won't STFU because he's defending his creation that is clearly good, but not as good as he says it is. His FUD about hardware is also more irritating. He thinks his service is equivalent to those companies that sell great PCs but also great service. This Muderbox is second to many boutique PCs that cost this much. You tell me to STFU yet you're the one trying to tell me how much his work costs, custom lacing? Dude, powdercoating may be much but it's not "time consuming". All of your statements regarding his fabrication are hilarious:
Lasercutting
Powdercoasting
sleeving
hours.

How many people here have powdercoated there cases? There quite a few here. Since when is Sleeving custom and cutting edge It never was. Lasercutting, OK that can get expensive, but not when you only have it in a few select places and build enough of them.
Money factor, probably. Time? No. This isn't something that takes long to BUILD, it may take some time to fabricate, however.
Click to expand...

1. How do you know Murderbox doesn't carry a warantee and support? I've never heard of Falcon Northwest coming into my home to install the system. You're liable for FUD saying that only brick & mortar or a large PC outlet can supply great end-user support. In my experience, I have seen the exact opposite.

2. Where is his FUD about hardware? Looks like you are spreading FUD and minimizing how much work it takes to properly teardown a system, make custom mods, and assemble without knowing all the detail that goes into the machine.

3. You say that this Murderbox is "second to many boutique PCs that cost this much", without providing substance to your statement. You will excuse me if I don't take any of your statements at your word, just because it came off the Internet.

All in all, you are clearly missing the boat on this one. There are 100's of modders on this site, but I can count on one hand that can put together a machine for resale and has any business sense whatsoever (like the waterkeg for example). Sure, I can powdercoat my chassis. Would I get involved in all that mess and pray I got it right the first time? Not if I didn't have the equipment or experience. Even if I did, would it look professional and not something I whipped up in my basement? Probably not.

So many people here are focused on how easy it would be to copy a proven design. But no one gives credit to the creator to have taken so many key elements and arranged them in a way that is tasteful and actually performs, and give people something they would want to copy (read: Inspiration).

People love to comment on how expensive something is and completely ignore what makes it viable for a business. Without business/market viability, what would be the point? Charles took his ideas, put a price on it and all you can do is cut him down for his business decision. Think he is wrong? Let's see you do it and prove it.

Think like a hobbyist, build like a hobbyist. Don't h8 when someone takes things to the next level.
 
Charles,

A few friends of mine from XS have tossed your name around several times and i finally got to see some of your work and i think it looks excellent. I think you have a good product and in a competitive high end pc market that is something that stands out.
 
McCartney, you are plainly a idiot in that thread and probably jealous of the nice work. AFAIK, nobody forced you to appreciate his work but please stop slinging him shit just because he decided to sell his work. What you are doing is threadcrapping and [H] doesn't allow this at all...

I have a lot of respect for those who push to the next level and if you think you can do better, start a new business yourself !

 
To all those that have expressed their support, I’d like to once again sincerely thank you. I’m not a front and center guy and have been a lurker on forums like this for many years. I’ve learned a great deal thanks to those that have so enthusiastically shared their creativity and ideas. It’s been said that I haven’t contributed anything here and while that is certainly true regarding active participation, I’d like to think that some of my ideas have had some value. I’ve never tried to use an Enthusiast forum or website to further my business. That just goes against my principals. The truth is that murderbox photos first surfaced, not by my doing, but at the hands of one of my client’s. His enthusiasm got the better of him and he created an account and posted a bunch of murderbox photos in a thread at XS. I only discovered this when one day coming here, I saw a thread with a link to the XS thread. It was never my intention to promote or advertise outside of Vancouver, Canada; my market. In fact, I’ve had dozens of requests to build murderboxes for customers outside of Vancouver that I have respectfully declined. I don’t think that classifies me as someone looking to make a fast buck.

Ok, back on point. The customer had copies of the photos because he had graciously lent me an amazing lens, (Nikkor 28mm f1.4) which really helped make the murderbox images “pop”. That and it was his murderbox I was shooting! There was a misunderstanding which resulted in him posting the photos and me freaking out. The freak out was largely due to this happened before my website was even complete. Anyway, all this to say that it was not my intention to come in here and push my wares. I’ve seen pretty much everything out there written about murderbox and this thread is the first time I’ve participated. To be honest, the only reason was to see if I could persuade the OP to remove one of the photos in his post. I hated the photo for a number of reasons and was mortified that it was not only here, but huge. The rest is history…

Now I’m glad my customer released the photos. It’s forced me to get thicker skin for one. Through the process I’ve also got to know some awesome people. But the main reason I’m glad is because based on the feedback I’ve been getting for my work, it could be that despite not having 735 posts here, I may have contributed something to the community after all. At the end of the day, it’s all about expression and inspiration. Oh, and 90° elbows.

Peace; Mod on.
 
You should use The Danger Den or Bitspower elbows/t's, they wouldn't stand out as badly as the nylon ones.
 
I see 2 people defending this idiot. I'm not jealous. I can buy both of your guys' lifestyles easy. Not my money but it's not whose money it is, it's whether I can spend it. Believe me I can, I am not here to "hate" but I read that SLI x38 FUD, and that is FUD
 
McCartney said:
I see 2 people defending this idiot. I'm not jealous. I can buy both of your guys' lifestyles easy.
Click to expand...

Then fucking do it, man. You and anyone else who wants to run their mouth.

Seriously. I hate how everyone's willing to talk shit about another guy's work, yet aren't going to step up to the fucking plate and PROVE this. Money talks. Bullshit walks.

Personally, I wouldn't buy a Murderbox. I don't have 6200 in Canadian or US dollars sitting around doing anything. And thats -with- my pending tax return. BUT. If I did have the money and felt like getting myself something that was truly badass, the Murderbox would definitely be something I'd consider if I could be so honored to own one.

Yes, I could probably build it myself too - after buying all the fucking equipment I'd need and putting myself into debt in the process for ONE computer case I'd mod the hell out of. Seriously, beyond a Dremel, how many different kinds of tools do you use to do your mods, people? Probably a lot more than your average joe schmoe has in their whole house let alone their garage. I've lurked around in the modding forums. There is no way in hell you can tell me that all of that shit was done by a dremel and a couple different hand saws. I see all sorts of different tools being used, hell, I have even seen people plot this shit out on AutoCAD before they do anything. And the visualization to do this shit is astounding. The final results are nothing short of breathtaking, something your average joe could not do. Powdercoating? I don't even know WHERE I can get my shit powdercoated. I don't even know how to powdercoat!

I see some of these balls out designs on this shit you guys do. I see everything from completely fabricated cases out of sheet metal or aluminum or arcylic, and even wood. I'm sure your average person from ages 14-40 is an ace at woodworking, let alone steel fabrication or acrylic molding, right? Because that's what you, the people who shit on this work, are saying. That anyone can do what is done here. I call bullshit on that.

People with the tools and the know-how know how to do this. People who aren't afraid of fucking up or can afford to fuck up and live with the results, or know how to fix the fuckups, know how to do this. I personally haven't a fucking clue on any of this! Hell, I couldn't even tell you how to use Bondo to make custom shaping out of the cases! And spraypaint? Pffft. Yeah. I have the spraypainting capability of an epileptic monkey. So yeah, I'm so out of luck on doing even THAT much.

So you know what? Kudos to you charles_h, for doing what you do. Keep doing it. As long as there are people who run their mouth and wager all these bets that they can do better for cheaper, and won't cough up the proof, they are just simply talking. Till they ante up, you've got nothing to worry about.

And to you shit-talkers? Ante up. Post your proof that this guy is taking people for a ride. I want to see receipts, bills, invoices, and whatever else you wanna call this guy out on. Talk is cheap. Mods aren't.
 
SamuraiInBlack said:
Then fucking do it, man. You and anyone else who wants to run their mouth.

Seriously. I hate how everyone's willing to talk shit about another guy's work, yet aren't going to step up to the fucking plate and PROVE this. Money talks. Bullshit walks.

Personally, I wouldn't buy a Murderbox. I don't have 6200 in Canadian or US dollars sitting around doing anything. And thats -with- my pending tax return. BUT. If I did have the money and felt like getting myself something that was truly badass, the Murderbox would definitely be something I'd consider if I could be so honored to own one.

Yes, I could probably build it myself too - after buying all the fucking equipment I'd need and putting myself into debt in the process for ONE computer case I'd mod the hell out of. Seriously, beyond a Dremel, how many different kinds of tools do you use to do your mods, people? Probably a lot more than your average joe schmoe has in their whole house let alone their garage. I've lurked around in the modding forums. There is no way in hell you can tell me that all of that shit was done by a dremel and a couple different hand saws. I see all sorts of different tools being used, hell, I have even seen people plot this shit out on AutoCAD before they do anything. And the visualization to do this shit is astounding. The final results are nothing short of breathtaking, something your average joe could not do. Powdercoating? I don't even know WHERE I can get my shit powdercoated. I don't even know how to powdercoat!

I see some of these balls out designs on this shit you guys do. I see everything from completely fabricated cases out of sheet metal or aluminum or arcylic, and even wood. I'm sure your average person from ages 14-40 is an ace at woodworking, let alone steel fabrication or acrylic molding, right? Because that's what you, the people who shit on this work, are saying. That anyone can do what is done here. I call bullshit on that.

People with the tools and the know-how know how to do this. People who aren't afraid of fucking up or can afford to fuck up and live with the results, or know how to fix the fuckups, know how to do this. I personally haven't a fucking clue on any of this! Hell, I couldn't even tell you how to use Bondo to make custom shaping out of the cases! And spraypaint? Pffft. Yeah. I have the spraypainting capability of an epileptic monkey. So yeah, I'm so out of luck on doing even THAT much.

So you know what? Kudos to you charles_h, for doing what you do. Keep doing it. As long as there are people who run their mouth and wager all these bets that they can do better for cheaper, and won't cough up the proof, they are just simply talking. Till they ante up, you've got nothing to worry about.

And to you shit-talkers? Ante up. Post your proof that this guy is taking people for a ride. I want to see receipts, bills, invoices, and whatever else you wanna call this guy out on. Talk is cheap. Mods aren't.
Click to expand...
For your information, I think my rig provides a pretty accurate description of what I can afford because I don't pay for it my parents do. I didn't say anyone can "mod" the tj07 to the murderbox, but with a little know how and arcygenical's assistance I'm sure if they've had past experience it would take them, like arcy said, roughly 20-25 hours. Arcy himself could do this in a day. That's what I said and that's what I stand by. I don't like how people started defending the murderbox as if it's better than the Falcon Northwest systems for the price, and on top of that start to insult Arcygenical who I'd consider a pivotal member of this specific forum.

http://www.falcon-nw.com/config/build.asp

Go there and build his equivalent and you'll see even though it doesn't have watercooling it's MUCH cheaper and that's falcon NW we're talkign about.

Voodoo's site is down atm, and so I can't get another config yet. I'm on it though.
 
McCartney said:
For your information, I think my rig provides a pretty accurate description of what I can afford because I don't pay for it my parents do. I didn't say anyone can "mod" the tj07 to the murderbox, but with a little know how and arcygenical's assistance I'm sure if they've had past experience it would take them, like arcy said, roughly 20-25 hours. Arcy himself could do this in a day. That's what I said and that's what I stand by. I don't like how people started defending the murderbox as if it's better than the Falcon Northwest systems for the price, and on top of that start to insult Arcygenical who I'd consider a pivotal member of this specific forum.

http://www.falcon-nw.com/config/build.asp

Go there and build his equivalent and you'll see even though it doesn't have watercooling it's MUCH cheaper and that's falcon NW we're talkign about.

Voodoo's site is down atm, and so I can't get another config yet. I'm on it though.
Click to expand...

You feel holier than thou because your parents pay for your shit? You are the most disrespectful little whelp I have seen on these forums since Terra. Get a job, and start paying for shit yourself and see what its like.

Charles, I applaud your work, and while I would never myself buy one (Build myself.) but If I ever came in to ridiculous amounts of money and became lazy Id fly over and pick on up. I typically hate the Tj07 but you make it look nice :p

Keep living the dream of running a builder like most people here, And good luck :)
 
The machine looks great. It's not as amazing and exotic as some of the other crazy stuff you see people doing, like Beast and Blade, but it's really good looking in a simple way.

The matrox LCD is a nice touch, and if I ever have a large PC case again, and some money to burn I'll surely steal that idea. If he's making a profit on this then all the power to him. Some of you fail to realize that probably 98% of everyone who reads this would never buy one, either because of money or the fact, like me, find it either fun or entertaining to put their own rig together.

I do find some things a bit strange, but guess it's just a bit of marketing to "hype" his product, like stressing the need for watercooling to reduce noise but having 2 Raptors in RAID?! Haha.

There are many modders here who could probably get local recognition in their local paper and such for their work, he just seems to be putting himself out there. His website (although tough to navigate at times) is beautiful, and fits well with his product.

There are some projects on the million dollar PC page that look way worse than his rig, and in fact, I don't even know why they're on it, but they're still better than anything I have had the chance to do, either for lack of time, and expendable income (and I do have my own income).

His rig has a subtle sense of style, and some relatively simple mods and techniques that went a long way.

Just remember that we're a minority here, and there's other people with enough money to spend to get something cool without it even scraping them. Some of the richest people in the world love the little things in their house (or houses) and a custom made computer case with elegant looks next to a 30" LCD so they can google the price of their stocks and play solitaire makes them happy.
 
0mega said:
You feel holier than thou because your parents pay for your shit? You are the most disrespectful little whelp I have seen on these forums since Terra. Get a job, and start paying for shit yourself and see what its like.

Charles, I applaud your work, and while I would never myself buy one (Build myself.) but If I ever came in to ridiculous amounts of money and became lazy Id fly over and pick on up. I typically hate the Tj07 but you make it look nice :p

Keep living the dream of running a builder like most people here, And good luck :)
Click to expand...

I'm hurt. I'm disrespectful because someone is using this forum to push his "leet" murderbox. It's not that leet, man. Calling me disrespectful? Great. I don't care if you're against my parents paying for it. I've stated it here numerous times that I"m fortunate to be in the position I am today. The problem with people like you is you weren't fortunate to be in my position and instead you had to work for it, I respect that. But to be a hypocrite is quite humorous. Many people say "oh you don't work I EARN MY STUFF" at my age, that's because they weren't blessed with situations that some people like myself are born into. Instead of saying "Well I understand your position" they say "Omfg you're lame earn it yourself" because of their jealousy. I don't care for your type who are hypocritical, and I can't even prove it because you'd never be in my situation unfortunately. You dont' see me come on these forums and brag about what I have, people said I can't afford this and that and that is why I'm "hating" on his work. That's the furthest from the truth.

I'm sorry but I was critiquing his box, not people's money situation. His box isn't even on par with Falcon and with all this hype a select few are getting here, people are getting him sales. Falcons are much much better and they have great quality builds. Just look at their reviews. Falcon would be where I went for the money
 
McCartney said:
I'm sorry but I was critiquing his box, not people's money situation. His box isn't even on par with Falcon and with all this hype a select few are getting here, people are getting him sales. Falcons are much much better and they have great quality builds. Just look at their reviews. Falcon would be where I went for the money
Click to expand...
Then GTFO this thread.

And just for your information, I posted this thread because I thought people would be interested in knowing that somebody who makes quality pieces lives in the Greater Vancouver area. Not to promote the Murderbox, not to start some flame war, and most certainly not to gather all the trolls on [H] into one thread.
 
Who are you man? Seriously. You seem to like insulting people more than you constructively arguing the point or validity of this case. I'm just going to ignore you.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top