Yet another "new build" thread

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KevinG

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
348
It's time for me to build a new computer, but I've been out of it for long enough to be confused. I've been reading carefully for a few weeks now, and think I'm getting closer. First some background.

One of my earlier builds is an Abit BP6 running dual 300 mhz celerons overclocked to 450 mhz each. This was quite amazing back then. A Dual celeron board? Who'da thunk it? Anyway, both of those celerons and their heatsinks were lapped to a mirror finish. That box, beleive it or not, is still running today. It's running xubuntu, and serves as a web browser for my wife and kids.

My next builds were on an Abit IC7-Max3 running 2.4ghz pentiums at 3.0 ghz. The reason I say "builds" and "pentiums" is that I built two identical machines. One for the theater, and one as the primary computer for the home. Both of those are still running today, but the primary computer is starting to get a little flakey, and it's due for a replacement anyway.

So, what do I need in a primary machine? I don't game much, since that's mostly happening in the xbox 360 nowadays, but occasionally might like to run something on the PC. It is used for photoshop, and sony vegas, and sonar though. I require RAID support (due to an unfortunate and expensive (to pay to recover) hard drive failure in the past, I now run a RAIDed pair of 300 GIG drives, and also backup the redundant drives to another internal drive monthly). I'd like to keep support for IDE drives in addition to SATA (since I have terrabytes of IDE drives around). I need firewire (for the camcorder). I need gigabit lan (whole house is wired, and I move movies around a lot). My current PCI slots are full of the following things:
1 card for VIA Sata card (used for modding the xbox)
1 card for more USB ports (I suppose I could just move this external)
1 card for an honest to goodness serial port (used for programming old pronto remotes)
1 card for wireless lan card (only used to connect to a wireless piano, that's also wired, but that's a long story...it's a requirement none-the-less)

That brings me to my current plan (built mostly at newegg, but not tied to ordering from them):

Thermaltake Armor Series VA8003BWS Black Full Tower Case w/ 25CM Fan - Retail
ABIT IP35 Pro LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Q6600
Antec 650 blue powersupply (already purchased from local CompUSA going-out-of-business sale)
4 gig of memory - need suggestions
video card - need suggestions (although I'll likely grab an 8800 on sale for about $200 A/R as seen on some of the threads here)
cpu cooler - need suggestions (although, this is pretty clear from topics here already)
3x 500 gig drives - 2 raided, one as a backup
Will be keeping current monitor for now.
Planning on running Vista64, XP, and Ubuntu if I can figure out how to triple boot.

Any thoughts on how to change/improve this to better meet my needs? I went with Abit mostly because of my familiarity with them, but open to suggestions.

Thanks in advance.
-Kevin
 
KevinG said:
1) I don't game much, but occasionally might like to run something on the PC.
2) It is used for photoshop, and sony vegas, and sonar though.
3) I require RAID support
4) I'd like to keep support for IDE drives
5) I need firewire (for the camcorder).
6) I need gigabit lan (whole house is wired, and I move movies around a lot).

My current PCI slots are full of the following things:
a) 1 card for VIA Sata card (used for modding the xbox)
b) 1 card for more USB ports (I suppose I could just move this external)
c) 1 card for an honest to goodness serial port (used for programming old pronto remotes)
d) 1 card for wireless lan card (only used to connect to a wireless piano, that's also wired, but that's a long story...it's a requirement none-the-less)

That brings me to my current plan (built mostly at newegg, but not tied to ordering from them):

Thermaltake Armor Series VA8003BWS Black Full Tower Case w/ 25CM Fan - Retail
ABIT IP35 Pro LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Q6600
Antec 650 blue powersupply (already purchased from local CompUSA going-out-of-business sale)
4 gig of memory - need suggestions
video card - need suggestions (although I'll likely grab an 8800 on sale for about $200 A/R as seen on some of the threads here)
cpu cooler - need suggestions (although, this is pretty clear from topics here already)
3x 500 gig drives - 2 raided, one as a backup
Will be keeping current monitor for now.
Planning on running Vista64, XP, and Ubuntu if I can figure out how to triple boot.
Click to expand...

1) what size monitor?
1a) what games (or type of games) at what settings (high detail? medium?) ?
4) how many IDE drives?
6) this is common among most mainstream boards these days
a) do you need a physical card or will onboard SATA work?
b) newer boards support 12 USB ports, is that enough? otherwise, you could get a hub.
c) will onboard serial port work?

Also, what is your budget?
Oh, and could you post the model # of that PSU?

If onboard SATA, USB, and Serial are all good enough for you, I'd suggest the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3P or DS4 (or the new EP35 models as well). They have 8 internal SATA ports, as well as an onboard header for a DB-9 (serial) port, two onboard USB headers for 4 more front/rear expansion USB ports (8 on rear I/O panel), and an onboard IDE controller for 2 IDE devices (but something tells me you'll need a PCI IDE Controller card anyhow, lol). You can get WiFi cards that are USB or PCI-E1x now.

RAM: Any 4GB kit for around $80 would be good. Keep an eye out on the HotDeals section -- I picked up 4GB DDR2-800 for $55 after $30MIR. Typically, you can find some A-Data 2x2GB DDR2-800 for around $70. You won't notice a difference between CL4 and CL5, unless you're running benchmarks (and even then, the difference is negligible), so don't pay a huge price premium for lower latency.

Vidcard: I think ncixus.com still has the Galaxy 8800GT for $188AR. The non-reference cooler on this card keeps it cooler than normal.

CPU HSF: Thermalright Ultra120eXtreme w/ S-Flex fan.

Install Ubuntu first, XP second, Vista last.
 
enginurd said:
1) what size monitor?
1a) what games (or type of games) at what settings (high detail? medium?) ?
4) how many IDE drives?
6) this is common among most mainstream boards these days
a) do you need a physical card or will onboard SATA work?
b) newer boards support 12 USB ports, is that enough? otherwise, you could get a hub.
c) will onboard work?

Also, what is your budget?
Click to expand...

1) It's a 21" CRT (I do a lot of photo work, and flat panels still don't seem to be able to display blacks all that well)
1a) FPS, driving/racing at whatever settings...I see where you are going with this. SLI is *not* required, and if I can save a good bit of money I'd do without an 8800 video card...but at $200, there isn't all that much to save, I would imagine.
4) Well, even a single IDE header would get me two drives. I'd be satisfied with that. Are there reliable IDE to SATA converters that work? I've got a number of external enclosures that I could drop these IDE drives into, but that makes them fairly slow.
6) Yeah, I noticed that gig is standard...it is even built into the MB I'm using now.
a) I expect onboad SATA raid to be fine (that's what I'm using now)
b) 12 USB ports probably won't be enough, but that plus my 8 port hub should be fine.
c) onboard wireless Lan would work...but I'm a little bit worried about support for it under linux. The thing is that I had a hard time finding a card that would go into promiscuous mode so that I could do packet sniffing that I need to do to reverse engineer this piano thing...

Budget. Hard to say. There really isn't one. Whatever it takes to build what I need without doing something that is just a waste of money. I have a feeling that I should be able to build this for between $1000 and $2000. And I already have some artic silver, so there's a big savings right there! :D

-Kevin
 
Wow, there are a TON of those gigabyte p35 motherboards...any reason you picked those specific ones? As far as I can tell some don't support RAID, some have SLI (I don't need that), and some are DDR3 boards...but that still leaves a bunch.

Thanks again.

Edit:
GA-P35-DS3R - No IEEE, but has 3 pci
GA-P35-DS3P - Has IEEE (and serial!), but only 2 pci, but 2 pci-X16 (I only need 1)
GA-P35-DS4 - (nicer version of the DS3P, as far as I can tell [better cooling])

So, is there a version that has IEEE, 3 pci slots, serial port, and only 1 pciX 16 slot?
 
KevinG said:
So, is there a version that has IEEE, 3 pci slots, serial port, and only 1 pciX 16 slot?
Click to expand...

Nope. There are mobos that fit your requirements but I would not recommend them due to their cheap quality or lack of certain features. For your needs, I recommend the DS3P since it doesn't look like you actually need 3 PCI slots considering that the mobo has headers for serial and additional ports. In addtion, you can get USB or PCI-E x1 wifi cards now. If you need external SATA, the DS3P comes with a bracket that converts the internal SATA ports into external SATA ports.

(Yes the above is pretty much a rehash of enginurd's post)

Oh, and no motherboard based on the P35 chipset supports SLI. But they do support Crossfire.
 
KevinG said:
...any reason you picked those specific ones? ...
Click to expand...

Mainly for the Firewire, RAID, # of SATA ports, and the onboard header for a serial port.

You listed 4 PCI cards (enumerated above as: a, b, c, d). With the DS3P or DS4, a, b, and c were all eliminated.

KevinG said:
...So, is there a version that has IEEE, 3 pci slots, serial port, and only 1 pciX 16 slot? ...
Click to expand...

Not quite. The Asus P5K-E WiFi almost fits that criteria, but you're leary about onboard WiFi. Though, it does have 3 PCI slots, in case the onboard WiFi doesnt fit your needs. The only thing is that it only has 6 internal SATA headers -- but it does have 2 external (eSATA) on the rear I/O panel.

On the gigabyte boards, eSATA is done with a PCI bracket adapter -- giving you the freedom to use those ports internally or externally.

So, with the P5K-E, a, b, c, and d should now all be eliminated (like the gigabyte boards, it has an onboard com port header), ;) ...unless I'm too sleepy and I'm missing something else you required, lol.
 
This is really really helpful information. Thanks a lot!

One more question though...Am I compromising at all by going with the gigabyte vs. Asus or Abit? In other words, if I were willing to ignore the serial port, for example...is there a better board?

On a happy note, newegg has the case on sale, so I'm about to place an order for that.

-Kevin
 
The DS3P/DS4, P5K-E, and IP35-Pro are all great boards. You can't really go wrong with any of them. Though, the DS3P/DS4 and P5K-E fit your needs better than the IP35 Pro. The appeal of the IP35 Pro is its uGuru/FanEQ software, aside from the little extras here and there (onboard pwr/rst switches, clear cmos switch on rear i/o panel, etc). Despite those few extras, I'd still suggest the Asus P5K-E or DS3P/DS4. ;)
 
Okay, I think I'm set on the GA-P35-DS4 (the better cooling on the MB is worth the price difference, I think). But here's the problem. It looks like they are currently shipping version 2.0 or 2.1 of this board...and the serial port on the back is gone (added 4 more USB ports replacing the parallel and serial ports). No big deal, it's still on the MB, but I need to order one of these things: S/N:12CF1-1CM001-31 which puts the port on a card slot bracket. But, I can't find anywhere to order it!

Oh, and I didn't order the case from newegg, since clubIT had it for cheaper... :cool:

Thanks.
-Kevin
 
Just finished placing the order:

NewEgg:
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4 $179.99
A-Data 4GB DDR2 800 $92.99 - 20 or $72.99 A/R

ClubIT:
Q6600 $253.99
Thermaltake VA8003BWS Armor w/25cm side fan $253.99 - 30 - 20 or $99.99 A/R
Arctic Silver 5 $5.50 (already had some, but I threw in some fresh stuff anyway)

NCIXUS:
Thermalright ultra-120 extreme $57.91
Scythe S-flex 1600RPM $11.85
Galaxy GeForce 8800GT 512MB $22.16 - 40 or $182.16 A/R


Actual total after shipping and before $110 in rebates: $1029.89

Still missing:
Hard drives (but I have a 500gig sitting in a box that was ear-marked for the Series 3 Tivo that I'll use for now)
Keyboard/mouse (but I have crappy spares I can use for now)
optical drive (Have spares, but I'll want new anyway)
oops, just realized that I meant to throw in a floppy drive from somewhere...oh well. I also still have to order that backplane bracket for the serial port...Thanks for the pointer!

I might have been able to do a bit better here and there, but probably not much...

-Patiently awaiting arrival
-Kevin
 
Ordered the hard drives, and the DVD burner from zipzoomfly:

101259 Western Digital Caviar SE 16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s ***Free Shipping*** $99.50 3 $298.50
10006485 SAMSUNG SH-S203B/BEBN 20X DVD±RW Burner w/Software $27.99 1 $27.99

Still haven't decided how to configure the hard drives, though.
 
An 8800GT isn't exactly ideal at that res, but it should be good for most things.

The good news is, if you decide you need something more you can sell it for almost no loss here or elsewhere.
 
silent-circuit said:
An 8800GT isn't exactly ideal at that res, but it should be good for most things.
Click to expand...

Not good for 1920x1200? Or not good for 1920x1200x2? I'm not sure that I'm going to run both monitors on the new build, that's why I ask.

If it isn't good for 1920x1200, what isn't good about it? Not fast enough to game at that resolution? For now, my Radeon x850 seems to be driving it just fine at 1920x1200 (though I haven't tried to do much of anything that would make it work hard...)

Should I be thinking about picking up a second 8800GT now?

Thanks for the heads up...

-Kevin
 
tzk said:
Have you thought about raid 5 at all with your 3x 500gigs?
Click to expand...

Actually, the thought did cross my mind...but I'm under the impression that raid 5 is more about security (redundancy) than about performance. Is that correct?

Thanks for the suggestion.
-Kevin
 
Gaming. Of course, it depends /heavily/ on what you're playing. Many titles will do fine at 1920x1200, but some of the newer stuff -- COD4, Crysis, some others -- may require you to drop settings, res, or both.

It'll do fine driving it -- any 64mb+ card will drive it. ;)

Gaming at 2x 1920x1200 is pretty much impossible with Nvidia hardware. A pair of ATI Radeon 3870X2s in CrossfireX on a X38 based board would work, but that's a $200 motherboard and $900 in GPUs...
 
silent-circuit said:
Gaming. Of course, it depends /heavily/ on what you're playing. Many titles will do fine at 1920x1200, but some of the newer stuff -- COD4, Crysis, some others -- may require you to drop settings, res, or both.

It'll do fine driving it -- any 64mb+ card will drive it. ;)

Gaming at 2x 1920x1200 is pretty much impossible with Nvidia hardware. A pair of ATI Radeon 3870X2s in CrossfireX on a X38 based board would work, but that's a $200 motherboard and $900 in GPUs...
Click to expand...

Ah, okay...Then I'll have to be willing to game at a lower resolution for now. Not a terrible thing, for now.
 
KevinG said:
Actually, the thought did cross my mind...but I'm under the impression that raid 5 is more about security (redundancy) than about performance. Is that correct?

Thanks for the suggestion.
-Kevin
Click to expand...

I did some research, and I've changed my mind. I'm seriously considering it (but talking about it more on my hard drive thread)

Thanks!
-Kevin
 
Parts have started to arrive:

quad1.jpg


Not shown here is the memory (since I forgot to bring it into the room), and the floppy (which is already installed in the case).

Waiting for the harddrives and q6600 (scheduled delivery tomorrow).

I'm leaning toward RAID 5 unless someone tells me that I shouldn't be thinking that way. :)

-Kevin
 
Check the Soyos to make sure they aren't defective. You may need to go exchange one at the local OfficeMax.
 
They are both perfect (not a single dead or stuck pixel that I can find). Already running them both on my two old machines. But thanks for the warning!
 
Wife says that CPU and harddrives have arrived via FedEx. More pictures to come. :)
 
Don't you just love that single *BEEP* that the computer makes the first time you turn it on and it POSTs? :D

Pictures coming when I clean up the wiring, of course. In the meantime, I'm a bit concerned with how easy it is to twist the thermalright ultra 120, even though the clamp is fully tightened.

Had a bit of trouble getting XP to install. It kept giving me a blue screen "STOP" right when it was "Starting Windows". A quick google search turned up the suggestion to move the SATA DVD drive to the GSata instead of the Intel SATA...for some reason, that did the trick.

Vista 64bit Ultimate was a breeze to install.

-Kevin
 
KevinG said:
Pictures coming when I clean up the wiring, of course.
-Kevin
Click to expand...

And I haven't even started that since I'm fighting with RAID 5 and Acronis...And I still have to pull it all apart again to put a washer under the thermalright ultra...
 
Whew! Posting from the new machine...so it works. :)

I had a real battle with this thing...hardest build I've ever done. I couldn't figure out for the life of me why the sound and mouse would stutter all over the place when in Windows. Turns out that there seem to be conflicts between the gigabyte SATA and the intel SATA. After moving everything (DVD and one HD) from the gigabyte SATA back to the Intel SATA everything cleared up.

Running RAID 5 across 3 500 gig drive, and another 500 gig drive for backups. One of the 3 500 gig drives from zipzoomfly was DOA, glad I had a spare!

Now, the good stuff:
The outside:
view.jpg


The whole shebang inside:
wholecase.jpg


A closer shot of the MB:
case.jpg


Does the cpu cooler look twisted? Well, it IS! And there's a damn good reason! It doesn't fit in the case!!! Here's a closer look (both shots are from outside the case through the window at the top of the cooler):

cooler1.jpg


A slightly different angle:
cooler2.jpg


You can see that the fan shroud from the side of the case just fits between two of the heat pipes! Wow!

Anyway, I plan to put a washer under the cpu cooler to make it tighter, and when I do that, I'll take a dremel to the fam shroud.

In the meantime, I'm running at 3.00 Ghz without doing anything except setting the FSB (didn't have to raise voltage), and setting the memory divider to keep it stock for now. After it bakes in a while (and after I put in the washer) I'll start bumping it up. For now, temps don't go above 55 degrees when running prime95 test across 4 cores.

Oh, one other thing. I spent $50 on laplink pcMover. It did a pretty good job, but not perfect. In my mind, the amount of time it saved me was worth the $50.

-Kevin
 
lol wow , i had a problem with my thermaltake soprano also , when i installed my Thermalright extreme 120 , i had to take the side door case fan and mount it on the outside :(.
 
lol, I like how the shroud fits perfectly between the heatpipes. thanks for the pics! :D
 
enginurd said:
lol, I like how the shroud fits perfectly between the heatpipes. thanks for the pics! :D
Click to expand...

Yeah, and it adds pressure between the cpu and the cooler by pressing the cooler onto the cpu. :D
At least until I put the washer in there, and take out the dremel. :rolleyes:
 
I finally put a washer between the cpu and heatsink. It's much tighter, but still not perfectly still. Seemed to help the temps a bit, but now I see a 7 degree difference between hottest and coolest...is that normal?
 
Oh, forgot to mention...I went with a 120 gig RAID 0 (FAST) partition for Windows XP and Programs, the rest as a RAID 5.

Abandoned Vista for now, and going to run ubuntu via Wubi for now.
 
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