L33t Masta
Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2008
- Messages
- 605
I hate the fact Comcast won't let me comment on this issue other than what they give us a script for.
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Comcast Defends Internet Practices
- Thread starter HardOCP News
- Start date
Well this is good news! >> Comcast Throttling is Anti-Competative
Mind you, that doesn't mean I'll stick with Comcast when an alternative becomes available. Just that I'd like to see them take a hit to their "bottom line" for what they've been doing.
Mind you, that doesn't mean I'll stick with Comcast when an alternative becomes available. Just that I'd like to see them take a hit to their "bottom line" for what they've been doing.
jstenuf
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2002
- Messages
- 3,631
Isn't this the real issue? They have oversold their bandwidth and this is how they compensate.
watertown28
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2007
- Messages
- 2,216
I love how they can get away with this. if a company over sells something and they dont give you what you bought you can get into big trouble...so why is comcast any different.
I hope they are not selling any more new subscriptions cuz apparently the network they have right now cant handle the load they have so therefore it would mean that they cant get any new costumers to add to the load. I bet you 10 bucks they are still taking new users and trying to sell them the high end bandwith... who can they even do this>
(Note: The following is not a rant, but more of a rambling question in regards to potential impending doom of customer-screwing, nation-wide ISP tactics)
The issue of the lone unemployed living-in-mothers-basement individual consuming terrabytes per month, thus "Ruining it" for everyone seems to come up often, along with poor analogies as to why/how comcast isnt a free-for-all, "take as much as you want, when you want" service. Not that I have any problem with these, as most are correct, but it seems people are emphasising that it is up to the users of this service to be more responsible with usage, which suggests to me that no one really gives a crap about how the ISP should be the one ensuring the rest of the 200 subscribers (or however many) on that node can still get their porn and emails without delay... Without resorting to Department Of Transportation level of customer service/Mysterious BS answers/solutions. If I can't even use VOIP because a few people are actually using (read:abusing) their 8Mb connection, Im not going to be angry at those possible people... Im going to be the one that is calling customer service, bitching and moaning at the ISP. Of course, anyone who uses several hundred gigabytes per month really cannot argue they had no idea it might be excessive, without lying. The words comcast, and monthly bandwidth are two words that are rarely put together. But, anyways:
Cutting a customer off should be the last thing to do, when every other attempt fails. This should be no different from any other service: Phone, Water, Power, etc. I would assume calling a customer on a telephone, automated cookie-cutter computer message or not, would have been the first step in the process. The next step, should be to send another cookie-cutter computer phone message that the user is going to be throttled to <Insert bandwidth so low that they cant bother anyone else> untill next month, or untill they rethink their consumption. And, finnally, the next step should be either a 2nd warning/throttle, or disconnect.
I still do not understand why they cant be bothered to at least impliment some kind of QoS shaping, or per-user throttling. My old wireless isp (small town, no DSL or anything else except satellite/dialup...sometimes just satellite) had several hundred clients on the network (yes, I did look, nearly 200 on the AP I was connected to), all 802.11b. Plans varied between dial-up speed and 512Kbs. They stated in their TOS, you are allowed to run web servers, mail servers, etc as long as you are "Reasonable" with it. They did not have any monthly bandwidth limits, stated in the TOS and stated to me in person when I asked them in person, not beleiving the TOS on the webpage.
Now, just think about that for a second. 150 users, 3Mbs half-duplex. That is 20Kb/s per user, or 10Kb/s if you want to consider 1:1 ratio for upload/download. This kind of over-selling makes comcast look like a reputable T1 provider. But, they got away with it because they used shaping network-wide to make sure crap like VOIP wouldn't get screwed over, and they sort-of did a half-assed per-user shaping, where you were throttled back if the networks load was heavy. It didnt specifically target any single user, from what I was seeing, just that it had more noticable effect on someone pulling 500Kb/s than someone moving 40Kb/s.
Anyways... I really wonder, why can't/won't comcast use something like this? FFS.. they could shove a crappy E-Machine on the network node with m0n0wall, shape traffic without preventing people from using services, and still maintain decent service with a horribly oversold network. My $30 1U router (500Mhz celeron, dual-port intel pro, m0n0wall) shapes at about 50-60Mbs, my $45 Via C3 board does nearly 70Mbs, I can't see cost as being the reason.
My 1-month usage graph Most of those large spikes are linux updates, which is why they stop at about 2Mb/s... slow linux mirrors. I mess around with linux in vmware quite often, and that means quite a bit of updates, or packages to download. If I have to, I will set up a proxy server... but that almost makes me feel like im on dialup again. As far as the networks burden, If 1/4th of the people on a cable node used bandwidth like this, the network would go to pure crap... hell, if 4-6 people did this, it wouldn't be acceptable. All it takes is a small throttling hit, 100-200KB/s during those peaks and that would make the difference between "I cant get to my email, it wont click, I want my money back" to "ehh, seems to work fine".
I dont have a problem with comcast, being a customer for nearly 2 years (with the exception of the phone-support bs). But for $60 per month, and considering its the only ISP avalible to me aside from dial-up, I have higher expectations of them. Im not demanding 800GB a month, at a full 6Mb/s, but I expect to be able to use it without wondering where their "Magic number" lies.
You guys above are totally right... they pay off high officials, just like anything else. That's how the world runs.
---
---
---
Overall, Comcast has been a horrible company since they came down here to Miami and took over Adelphia. I even tried Comcast myself because of the REALLY low pricing I got.
1. Customer service was complete garbage, not helpful *at all* most of the time.
2. Comcast tech had to come into my house even though I knew way more than him about how to setup the internet
3. Comcast tech tried to bullshit a $30 carpet fishing fee on my first bill for running UNDER 1 FOOT of cat5 under a piece of carpet I insisted he not do because it was REALLY unnecessary and there wasn't a purpose for doing it.
Then he scribbled to try and make it where I could not understand what he wrote. I called them up and bitched a couple times and they finally waived my carpet fishing fee... total bs! This is where they lost my "company trust". I can't imagine all the people they have ripped $30 each from... that's a lot of money. That's at least $90 PER tech PER day. Say you they had 25 techs out, easily $2000/day for doing nothing.
From then on, I've heard NOTHING BUT COMPLAINTS about Comcasts' internet service.
AND YES, THIS IS THE ONLY OPTION FOR SOME PEOPLE! MONOPOLY BIG TIME.
---
---
---
Overall, Comcast has been a horrible company since they came down here to Miami and took over Adelphia. I even tried Comcast myself because of the REALLY low pricing I got.
1. Customer service was complete garbage, not helpful *at all* most of the time.
2. Comcast tech had to come into my house even though I knew way more than him about how to setup the internet
3. Comcast tech tried to bullshit a $30 carpet fishing fee on my first bill for running UNDER 1 FOOT of cat5 under a piece of carpet I insisted he not do because it was REALLY unnecessary and there wasn't a purpose for doing it.
Then he scribbled to try and make it where I could not understand what he wrote. I called them up and bitched a couple times and they finally waived my carpet fishing fee... total bs! This is where they lost my "company trust". I can't imagine all the people they have ripped $30 each from... that's a lot of money. That's at least $90 PER tech PER day. Say you they had 25 techs out, easily $2000/day for doing nothing.
From then on, I've heard NOTHING BUT COMPLAINTS about Comcasts' internet service.
AND YES, THIS IS THE ONLY OPTION FOR SOME PEOPLE! MONOPOLY BIG TIME.
Also, why is it Comcasts' decision to limit what I view?
It's the internet, there are tons and tons of things that Comcast can consider "wrong" and limit us. That's just wrong.
If I want to download torrents, music and video all day, why do I have to suffer? Why does the guy that is connected to World of Warcraft ALL DAY 24/7, while watching porn not get a penalty?
Maybe comcast should spend a little bit of their massive profit on research to try to find ways to make video, music, and torrents smaller in size so they don't take up so much bandwidth?
No, me want money now! pay me, money now, love money. RAWRRR
It's the internet, there are tons and tons of things that Comcast can consider "wrong" and limit us. That's just wrong.
If I want to download torrents, music and video all day, why do I have to suffer? Why does the guy that is connected to World of Warcraft ALL DAY 24/7, while watching porn not get a penalty?
Maybe comcast should spend a little bit of their massive profit on research to try to find ways to make video, music, and torrents smaller in size so they don't take up so much bandwidth?
No, me want money now! pay me, money now, love money. RAWRRR
(sorry for the double-post, cant edit >__< )
But thats all they offer, a connection. What you do with it, and how much of that you use, falls into their fluid-like, ever-changing "We can do whatever we want, whenver we want, we define what is acceptable and unacceptable, and by using our service you agree to these terms" TOS.
Well once again, this falls into the Access vs usage. They could have tens of thousands of customers on a node with modems powered on and connected (if hardware allows), and as long as nobody used it, everything would be fine. Im using about 10-15Kb/s sitting here typing this, and I might peak out at 0.1-0.2Mb/s when I post this. Comcast would love that everyone uses it like this, as they wouldn't have to pay more for bandwidth. Bandwidth is very expensive, 10-20 internet subscriptions won't cover the costs.
$50 per month, at 0% markup would mean 100 users sharing a DS3/T3 @ a low, unrealistic price of $5,000/mo, and give you a garunteed throughput of about 500Kb/s. But it would be more like $100-$150 if you figure in costs to maintain the bare-minimum crappy hardware to keep it all going with one employee at minimum-wage pay, if you had this set up in someones garage/basement.
If someone feels they should be able to use what the ISP gives them for throughput, T3 might be a good choice, only costs about $5,000-7,000 (at the very least) per month.
If you want 8Mb/s with bursting up to 20Mb/s for web-surfing, thats what comcast and other ISPs are, ideally, set up for.
Im not trying to condone what comcast does, but reality is all ISPs are oversold beyond imagination, unless you are paying $100-200+ for a buisness-dsl line so small that it cant even stream youtube videos. What matters, is how they treat customers, and how they respond to networks being used to near-capacity. Comcast looks like it gets a big F, perhaps a D- for they way they go about things.
I havent read the TOS lately (you can see it at comcast.com), but I think they just sell you access... It used to be called unlimited access, basically meaning it was a connection that was up 24 hours a day, unlike dialup which is limited to x many hours per day (my old dialup isp automatically bills you for their buisness package for that month if you use more than 15 or 20 hours of dialup-internet per day). Comcast could deliver dial-up speeds or worse, and still be fine since they still are offering you the access. Their TOS should still have the breakdown of refunds, incase the network has a problem and you no longer have access.
But thats all they offer, a connection. What you do with it, and how much of that you use, falls into their fluid-like, ever-changing "We can do whatever we want, whenver we want, we define what is acceptable and unacceptable, and by using our service you agree to these terms" TOS.
Well once again, this falls into the Access vs usage. They could have tens of thousands of customers on a node with modems powered on and connected (if hardware allows), and as long as nobody used it, everything would be fine. Im using about 10-15Kb/s sitting here typing this, and I might peak out at 0.1-0.2Mb/s when I post this. Comcast would love that everyone uses it like this, as they wouldn't have to pay more for bandwidth. Bandwidth is very expensive, 10-20 internet subscriptions won't cover the costs.
$50 per month, at 0% markup would mean 100 users sharing a DS3/T3 @ a low, unrealistic price of $5,000/mo, and give you a garunteed throughput of about 500Kb/s. But it would be more like $100-$150 if you figure in costs to maintain the bare-minimum crappy hardware to keep it all going with one employee at minimum-wage pay, if you had this set up in someones garage/basement.
If someone feels they should be able to use what the ISP gives them for throughput, T3 might be a good choice, only costs about $5,000-7,000 (at the very least) per month.
If you want 8Mb/s with bursting up to 20Mb/s for web-surfing, thats what comcast and other ISPs are, ideally, set up for.
Im not trying to condone what comcast does, but reality is all ISPs are oversold beyond imagination, unless you are paying $100-200+ for a buisness-dsl line so small that it cant even stream youtube videos. What matters, is how they treat customers, and how they respond to networks being used to near-capacity. Comcast looks like it gets a big F, perhaps a D- for they way they go about things.
Comcast cut off my internet for downloading just shy of 400gigs, two days ago were not on ATT Uverse. We now have more channels that we actually want to watch and more set top boxes (3 total) faster upload (125kBps) but slower download (6mb) but our bill went from +$166.00 to ~$103.00. A circuit was tripped last night and the dsl modem had to be power cycled and reset. Though their automated phone system takes some getting used to (I'de rather have it say "1 for billing, 2 for service, 3 for spanish") a guy picked up (this was ~12am) and was friendly and was able to get my issue resolved in a prompt fashion.
bottom line is they've outgrown themselves, and instead of investing money in widening their scope of practice, they're trying to be a "god send" and "pwn" torrents.
i dont know one person who gets their advertised speed. they need to expand, thats it.
i dont know one person who gets their advertised speed. they need to expand, thats it.
If you're using that much bandwidth, eventually they will tell you to stop. Comcast has had bandwidth quotas for several years now. If you exceed the quota they send you a nasty letter threatening termination of your account.
L33t Masta
Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2008
- Messages
- 605
They don't even tell us CAEs what the bandwidth limit is 
Comcast is one large player though.
they own a huge portion of the pie, and act as they wish. they will have to answer some question on Capital Hill, and that makes me feel sooo much better. i mean we got nothing really serious goin on here right? Congress needs to set time aside for TV appearances regarding steroids and now Comcast.
Comcast does seem to be more than just a bit like Clear Channel. which is to say, they are very good at dictating their wants and desires and finding enough rhetoric and "facts" presented by experts (employed or commissioned by...) to continue their antics.
they own a huge portion of the pie, and act as they wish. they will have to answer some question on Capital Hill, and that makes me feel sooo much better. i mean we got nothing really serious goin on here right? Congress needs to set time aside for TV appearances regarding steroids and now Comcast.
Comcast does seem to be more than just a bit like Clear Channel. which is to say, they are very good at dictating their wants and desires and finding enough rhetoric and "facts" presented by experts (employed or commissioned by...) to continue their antics.
Comcast employs countless senators children high up and lines many pockets. They answer to no-one.
i can give any cynic a run for their money, but somewhere everyone is answerable. it is election season.
lol election season...now why can't we shoot? the season began...I'll buy a license for this hunt
A medal... shit, you're right...
You should read the beginning of the thread to see that you deserve the Honorary Medal of Retardation, because Comcast is a monopoly(this means there is no other company so consumers only have 1 choice for broadband) in some places.
lol...
Blazestorm
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2007
- Messages
- 6,940
I wish verizon would come here... comcast pretty much owns this state, everyone I know has a.) shitty DSL or b.) comcast...
And comcast in our neighborhood is slow... 4000kbps, where-as I was at my friends place 20 miles away and he was getting 12,000kbps... with 8 people connected to it
3x as fast for the same service
And comcast in our neighborhood is slow... 4000kbps, where-as I was at my friends place 20 miles away and he was getting 12,000kbps... with 8 people connected to it
3x as fast for the same service
Yeah, I dont see what everyones problem is here... I switched when I didnt like comcast, it was great... people-pc was totally there for me, everyone else has it as an option too. Seriously, whats the big deal? I mean, if you dont like it... then switch, AM I RITE?? (sarcasm)
A medal... shit, you're right...
You should read the beginning of the thread to see that you deserve the Honorary Medal of Retardation, because Comcast is a monopoly(this means there is no other company so consumers only have 1 choice for broadband) in some places.
lol...
+1 for robo being awarded the honorary medal of retardation.
Well as Qwest is about to connect up that fibre they dropped in our backyard a few months back. I scheduled to have them come out and install a new line "inside" the house (so that ADSL modem can be where I want it) and to bring me a modem.
The catch is that they are only "advertising" a 3Mbps connection here. So that's half Comcast's current "advertised" speed. I'm willing to bet that I'll only see a difference in really large downloads from sites like Microsoft. And hopefully, Qwest will ratchet up the speed offerings once the "Rehab Project" is finalized.
I'm just waiting for March 3rd...
The catch is that they are only "advertising" a 3Mbps connection here. So that's half Comcast's current "advertised" speed. I'm willing to bet that I'll only see a difference in really large downloads from sites like Microsoft. And hopefully, Qwest will ratchet up the speed offerings once the "Rehab Project" is finalized.
I'm just waiting for March 3rd...