Hotel Wireless

M

mecdrox

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 16, 2002
Messages
187
So, I have a very small business of doing in home computer support. One of the guys I have been supporting owns a hotel. He needs a new wireless network. He asked me to do it.

Pretty cool big project looks like it will pay well.

My only issue. I can not figure out those stupid redirecter presentation devices. Anyone know what it is even called or who makes them?

His hotel chain requires before a user uses the High Speed Internet Access (HSIA) they need to agree to the terms of service and to the limited liability agreements. Then redirects the users browser to the hotels special start page. I have been calling it a presentation server. But, then again I am not learned in such things.

Any help your all might have would be super great.

Thanks!

-Mecdrox
 
So are you wanting to know how to enable a "splash page" on the wireless LAN so when users launch their browsers, they see that page versus their normal default home page?
 
It's called a "Captive Portal"

If you want to dork with the concept at home...and have a router that supports DD-WRT firmware...dig into the "Sputnik" feature.
 
CAPTIVE PORTAL! That is exactly what we are looking for. And going with a linksys WRT54GL solution would rock.

Thanks guys!
 
mecdrox said:
And going with a linksys WRT54GL solution would rock.
Click to expand...

Uhm...for "learning" at home..yeah a little Linky would work for dorking around. But I'd seriously consider true business grade APs for installing at a hotel.
 
how big is this hotel?

I did this for a 198 room 4 star deluxe hotel. It cost thousands to setup correctly.

The system was fully intergated into ther front of house system (Micros Fidelio) when a person checks in it activates the port on the switch so if they use the RJ45 in their room there is no need for a password. If they want to use the wireles it asks for a room number and guest name, if this number and name is the same as on their fidelio system it allows them access to the internet. This gave free internet to guests but not to people sitting outside etc.

Its not an easy thing to do. Netpoint was the best solution I found.
 
sounds like you're way over your head...perhaps leave it to the professionals.

it may sound "cool", but taking a job that you have no experience or knowledge in is never a good idea, for both you and your customer.
 
sound like a "cool" project, but you may wanna go with some enterprise grade hardware like Cisco like YeOldeStonecat suggested than a traditional home router...

Are you only setting up one access point or are you briding multiple ones?
 
Just make sure you include vlans in whatever setup you use.
Don't need one customer masquerading on the network.
 
I truely apreciate the advice guys. I have felt rather overwhelmed by the whole deal. I have told him no 3 times already. But he keeps coming back and showing me the other bids and askin me to even match the mid priced one and get it done for him! I guess he likes deling wtih people he knows. *sigh* I feel like that girl I tired to make it with at prom.

Keep the input coming. And I will see what I can pull out.
 
i think we need more details.

what is the budget that he wants you to beat?
what kind of hotel - small, large, how big, how many rooms, how many floors?
is the place all wired?

scan in the other estimate and lets take a look.

i would say get a seperate connection all together for this (cable modem or something) that way its completely seperate, or you could do vlan, etc.

that m0n0wall has built in captive portal, pfsense looks to have an even better one.

then depending on size, figure an access point for each floor or more
 
mecdrox said:
I truely apreciate the advice guys. I have felt rather overwhelmed by the whole deal. I have told him no 3 times already. But he keeps coming back and showing me the other bids and askin me to even match the mid priced one and get it done for him! I guess he likes deling wtih people he knows. *sigh* I feel like that girl I tired to make it with at prom.

Keep the input coming. And I will see what I can pull out.
Click to expand...

how big is this hotel?
 
marley1 said:
then depending on size, figure an access point for each floor or more
Click to expand...

Yup....you'll want to get access points that allow you to blanket an area....and centrally manage them all. This is were you step up into at least mid to upper range products..HP Procurve APs for example.

On the more budget end of things...I am currently deploying a DLink product which allows this. I never liked DLink in the past...but I have to admit..for the past year or two..they've been putting out some nice midrange products. I'm using a bunch of these DWL-3140AP WebSmart "thin" access points...
http://www.dlink.com/products/?sec=2&pid=634
...managed/powered from this DES-1228P POE switch
http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=541&sec=2

One software package controls them all.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
Yup....you'll want to get access points that allow you to blanket an area....and centrally manage them all. This is were you step up into at least mid to upper range products..HP Procurve APs for example.

On the more budget end of things...I am currently deploying a DLink product which allows this. I never liked DLink in the past...but I have to admit..for the past year or two..they've been putting out some nice midrange products. I'm using a bunch of these DWL-3140AP WebSmart "thin" access points...
http://www.dlink.com/products/?sec=2&pid=634
...managed/powered from this DES-1228P POE switch
http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=541&sec=2

One software package controls them all.
Click to expand...

That switch has the Captive Portal built in or you still need another device?

This setup is a bit out of my experience too, never did a large hotel if that is wat we are talking about.

But YeOldeStonecat wat about a pfSense box with there Captive Portal (has built in user management if thats even needed), run that to a switch, then run all the access points off that? Dedicated broadband connection and stuff.

Just curious.
 
marley1 said:
That switch has the Captive Portal built in or you still need another device?

This setup is a bit out of my experience too, never did a large hotel if that is wat we are talking about.

But YeOldeStonecat wat about a pfSense box with there Captive Portal (has built in user management if thats even needed), run that to a switch, then run all the access points off that? Dedicated broadband connection and stuff.

Just curious.
Click to expand...

The DLink doesn't have a captive portal feature that I'm aware of....
Most of the *nix router distros have captive portal options...some for IPCop also.

I'm not doing a captive portal for this wireless setup, I was just illustrating an example of more affordable hardware that is designed for this type of setup...a sort of entry level enterprise package if you will..mainly the point being, hardware that's designed to centrally manage a fleet of access points that blanket an area.
 
would u recommend the OP to use a Linux distro like pfSense, monowall, etc?
 
marley1 said:
would u recommend the OP to use a Linux distro like pfSense, monowall, etc?
Click to expand...
Either that....or if the software vendor that this hotel uses has a plug in to charge for internet access and do billing for it...it'll have its own built in portal.

Also a note for the OP...you'll want to separate this wireless network from the business office..easily done through several means....
*Managed switch and create a separate port based VLAN
and/or...
*Many of the enterprise wireless products have a feature which will treat each wireless client as a unique separate VLAN...this keeps all the people that jump onto the wireless separated from each other...a good feature so that some kid at the hotel doesn't dig around other wireless people who are using it.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
Either that....or if the software vendor that this hotel uses has a plug in to charge for internet access and do billing for it...it'll have its own built in portal.

Also a note for the OP...you'll want to separate this wireless network from the business office..easily done through several means....
*Managed switch and create a separate port based VLAN
and/or...
*Many of the enterprise wireless products have a feature which will treat each wireless client as a unique separate VLAN...this keeps all the people that jump onto the wireless separated from each other...a good feature so that some kid at the hotel doesn't dig around other wireless people who are using it.
Click to expand...

link to one of the wireless that does that 2nd option, that is a great feature.
 
I never did get to scan in any of the other bids.The one bid that I did see was for $8,800. The budget is under $10,000. I came in at $9,900 :p

Here is what I am looking at using.

SMCWHSG44-G This has a limited captive portal. And a load of other features. Captive Portal, POE and the vlan being very important.

SMC2552W-G2
I went with 4 of these because the location already has 4 others. Plus I like to match like manufatures.

SMC6826MPE

Really the scarey part is this hotel is over 60 years old. It has also been expanded 3 different times. I will need to use ALL 8 WAP to cover the area.

He had some other guy come in a few years ago and do a reall hack job (Ran the cables along the outside of the walls and never covered them up) He also has 8 rooms that have to be hardwired. I will need to run all new cat5 and wire the 8 rooms.

I fear the celling crawling will be the most dificult part of the whole process. I am going to test the WDS feture of the hotspot gateway and WAP to see if I can get by in some parts without having to wire the WAP.

I should run and take some pictures for you guys to see.

Wish me luck!
 
mecdrox said:
I truely apreciate the advice guys. I have felt rather overwhelmed by the whole deal. I have told him no 3 times already. But he keeps coming back and showing me the other bids and askin me to even match the mid priced one and get it done for him! I guess he likes deling wtih people he knows. *sigh* I feel like that girl I tired to make it with at prom.

Keep the input coming. And I will see what I can pull out.
Click to expand...

It sounds to me like he just wants a good deal and isn't concerned about the quality. Sure people are more comfortable dealing with people they "know", however, those people aren't always the best suited for the job.
 
wire all AP

i dunno about that equipment but you should wire each AP.

i really feel like i would try out pfSense with the captive portal, run that to a switch, and run the access points.
 
It sounds to me like he just wants a good deal and isn't concerned about the quality. Sure people are more comfortable dealing with people they "know", however, those people aren't always the best suited for the job.
Click to expand...

I think you are right.

wire all AP

i dunno about that equipment but you should wire each AP.

i really feel like i would try out pfSense with the captive portal, run that to a switch, and run the access points.
Click to expand...

I will do my best to wire all the AP. I forgot. They need power too. There are no plugs in the crawl space / celling thing
 
either run power (isn't hard to run a extra circuit if you have access)

or run power over ethernet.

but if i got an estimate for 10g and it didn't include hard wiring i would probably say fuck off.

why is the estimate so hard. it looks like you got about 500-1000 in hardware. where is the other 8 grand coming too if your not planning on running wire?
 
Jay_oasis said:
how big is this hotel?

I did this for a 198 room 4 star deluxe hotel. It cost thousands to setup correctly.

The system was fully intergated into ther front of house system (Micros Fidelio) when a person checks in it activates the port on the switch so if they use the RJ45 in their room there is no need for a password. If they want to use the wireles it asks for a room number and guest name, if this number and name is the same as on their fidelio system it allows them access to the internet. This gave free internet to guests but not to people sitting outside etc.

Its not an easy thing to do. Netpoint was the best solution I found.
Click to expand...

Sounds interesting, but is it not overkill/unneeded money spent on switching the wired connections in the rooms? I mean what is the point really? If there is no guest...they will not be in the room! :confused:
 
marley1 said:
either run power (isn't hard to run a extra circuit if you have access)

or run power over ethernet.

but if i got an estimate for 10g and it didn't include hard wiring i would probably say fuck off.

why is the estimate so hard. it looks like you got about 500-1000 in hardware. where is the other 8 grand coming too if your not planning on running wire?
Click to expand...

I am wiring 8 rooms. As for the AP that was not part of the requirement. As long as they work. The bulk of the estimate goes into the construction side. I have to tear up walls (and paysome one to fix up) and crap in this 60 year old building. And even run cabling to a seperate other building on the same 'campus' So far the hardware costs are at $2,300.00 the best deals I could find where at newegg. *sigh* :(
 
interesting, i looked over the manual for that smc looks interesting.

anyway, get a bid out for an electrician to run the lines for you.

have them run the cat5 and a power line for you, to save time.

then you just have to plug and play really.

but just make sure you hard wire each access point, and either run POE or run a dedicated line to that
 
marley1 said:
interesting, i looked over the manual for that smc looks interesting.

anyway, get a bid out for an electrician to run the lines for you.

have them run the cat5 and a power line for you, to save time.

then you just have to plug and play really.

but just make sure you hard wire each access point, and either run POE or run a dedicated line to that
Click to expand...

that SMC hot spot gateway is pretty cool. Europe gets a c ooler one IMO (not aviable for resale in the usa or some sill crap)

I was thinking about that. I think I may have to talk to the electrician who is already doing a load of work there now.
 
Grentz said:
Sounds interesting, but is it not overkill/unneeded money spent on switching the wired connections in the rooms? I mean what is the point really? If there is no guest...they will not be in the room! :confused:
Click to expand...

I talk to this guy I am bidding for about such a system and he said he did want anything that elaborate. So, I guess free wireless internet for anyone in the area! :p
 
A friend did this professionally for a few years, and he was using the Orinoco products. Orinoco had a capture portal wireless manager that was more or less built for hotels and the like. I don't remember what the exact model number was that we were putting in at the time though.
 
Yeah see you never mentioned the size of the hotel or number of people.

An out of the box solution is always easier to sell, but from what I keep reading a Linux distro is just as reliable then all these OEM ones.

Why not grab a new Dell Optiplex slimline throw in 2 extra network cards, and load pFsense which looks like it has a neat Captive Portal or what YeOld posted.

That will cost you say 300-500 from Dell Outlet or brand new.

Run this to a unmanaged switch and then some access points.

Save a bit of the money and all you need to do is set the IP of the access points, configure the Captive portal and be done.
 
The device I am using has all I need and it was for under 400 with not need to screw around with a OS and install additional software. I feel a much better solution for my situation.
 
I'm going to get on my High Horse here so I apologize in advance.

LEAVE IT TO THE PROFESSIONALS!

I commend you for wanting to do this, its great your ambitious.

However, things like this, really f things up for us professionals.

I don't know how many times I've walked into a customers and never hear the end of how such n such set this up. Its never worked right and give me the 10th degree because they think I'm going to do the same thing.

The damn linux thing as well, i swear to f'n god every time I walk into a thread to help someone, the first thing I see is.. "use linux". Weather it be, smoothwall, monowall, pfsense, ipcop etc.

These may be great solutions and unless you know how to use one and set it up correctly, don't f'n touch it. I have multiple customers that will not and i repeat, will not get rid of there junk ipcop/pfsense firewalls. Why? Its free. They blame me and my co-workers for the problems these things create, because it was improperly setup. (Every time power goes out, it looses its route to our voice network. Yes its on battery backup, but they only last so long.)

Ok, I'm done.
 
WesM63 said:
I'm going to get on my High Horse here so I apologize in advance.

LEAVE IT TO THE PROFESSIONALS!

I commend you for wanting to do this, its great your ambitious.

However, things like this, really f things up for us professionals.

I don't know how many times I've walked into a customers and never hear the end of how such n such set this up. Its never worked right and give me the 10th degree because they think I'm going to do the same thing.

The damn linux thing as well, i swear to f'n god every time I walk into a thread to help someone, the first thing I see is.. "use linux". Weather it be, smoothwall, monowall, pfsense, ipcop etc.

These may be great solutions and unless you know how to use one and set it up correctly, don't f'n touch it. I have multiple customers that will not and i repeat, will not get rid of there junk ipcop/pfsense firewalls. Why? Its free. They blame me and my co-workers for the problems these things create, because it was improperly setup. (Every time power goes out, it looses its route to our voice network. Yes its on battery backup, but they only last so long.)

Ok, I'm done.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%
 
generally i would agree, but this really isn't that hard of a setup depending on the size of the hotel, which the OP has never mentioned.

if its a small hotel like 100 rooms or something then anyone could probably set it up.

not hard to get a 2nd broadband connection, use a router with some captive portal be it aftermarket or homebuilt setup, run that to a switch, run that to some access points needed for load, and just document everything.

documentation is the key as it helps the next person.

i mean if this is a huge ass hotel with many floors and such, maybe i'd back up.

but we dont know much of the details =/
 
marley1 said:
generally i would agree, but this really isn't that hard of a setup depending on the size of the hotel, which the OP has never mentioned.

if its a small hotel like 100 rooms or something then anyone could probably set it up.

not hard to get a 2nd broadband connection, use a router with some captive portal be it aftermarket or homebuilt setup, run that to a switch, run that to some access points needed for load, and just document everything.

documentation is the key as it helps the next person.

i mean if this is a huge ass hotel with many floors and such, maybe i'd back up.

but we dont know much of the details =/
Click to expand...


Building a computer is not hard and I still know people and mom-n-pop stores that manage to still fuck that up.

Its not about how hard it is.
 
I don't know if this is correct but I am sure that I am the only person here who has actually worked on a Hotel wireless system here

Its not easy, security for the hotel and the users is key! Don't forget that you also have to make sure you ISP knows that you intend to do this, you can't allow people to leach but it needs to be open enough for guests to log on with out problems

we used netpoint

http://www.wayport.com/hospitality.aspx

The OP needs to give more info

How big is the hotel?
How many guests per year
How does he intend to provide high speed internet, what ISP etc
What can he spend


We had a totaly seperate network to the rooms, 24 port Cisco switch on each floor, Wired AP for each floor etc
 
OP you have no idea what pain and hell you're getting into. Leave it to the professionals who have the time and money to support it and do it right the first time. Otherwise, you will regret the day you were born.

I worked hotel HSIA for 2 years off and on, and it was NOT fun to support guests, and unless you know exactly what you're doing (you don't, just so you know) your hardware choices will not work the way you want them to.

You need QoS and VLANs and you need to know how to set them up right. If you don't, you need to quit now.
You need experience with the captive portal you're using. (We used IP3 and Nomadix)

What hotel is this for? I'd be curious to see if it was a former customer of ours :p
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top