Dental Office Network

A

AMD_RULES

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Mar 26, 2007
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Hello all
I'm am going to be setting up a small network in my dental office soon and
I have a few questions as far as setup goes.

1. For anyone who has setup a dental network, do you usually setup the computers in a workgroup or a domain?

2. Depending on the answer for #1, what type of hardware specs would be sufficient for a 6 workstation network with 6 users as far as cpu(s) and memory goes? (I have the hdd requirements taken care of already ;) )

Thanks a lot to any inputs

- AMD_RULES
 
I have never setup a 'dental' network, but ANY network actually worth using MUST be a 'DOMAIN'.... your server can be the smallest unit you can buy today, even running 2k server, but make SURE you use a domain, and not a workgroup. You will be saving alot of headaches for you, and your client.
 
QwertyJuan said:
I have never setup a 'dental' network, but ANY network actually worth using MUST be a 'DOMAIN'.... your server can be the smallest unit you can buy today, even running 2k server, but make SURE you use a domain, and not a workgroup. You will be saving alot of headaches for you, and your client.
Click to expand...

AMEN. If you go with a workgroup you will be constantly making trips back to fix goofy stuff.

Their setup depends on the dental software they plan to use. If it is a network version (I cannot imagine anything not being these days) then you should get a simple server using Windows server or Small Business Server.

Have you setup a Windows network with a domain before? If not then you might want to bring someone in who has because while it is relatively easy there are a lot of caveats that can be done incorrectly and create problems.
 
AMD_RULES said:
Hello all
I'm am going to be setting up a small network in my dental office soon and
I have a few questions as far as setup goes.

1. For anyone who has setup a dental network, do you usually setup the computers in a workgroup or a domain?

2. Depending on the answer for #1, what type of hardware specs would be sufficient for a 6 workstation network with 6 users as far as cpu(s) and memory goes? (I have the hdd requirements taken care of already ;) )

Thanks a lot to any inputs

- AMD_RULES
Click to expand...

Domain is great and should be done in buisness environments, but 6 users may be overkill.

Why dont you give us a bit more information about the setup. Like if the dental or secretary software they are using will be a network version or really what they will be using.

If it is a network based software, then you mite as well run a domain because you will already have the hardware.

Your server can handle the DHCP, DNS, Domain, File/Print serving. Get a OEM server (dell, hp, etc) because a white box will become a hasle.... for example i had a few clients who i built computers for back maybe 3 years ago, the motherboard fails, and its impossible to get a new motherboard for it then they are left upgrading the whole computer. Going through a OEM you will usually have a 3yr warranty on server.

Do they need email hosting as well? If so look into the SBS server, can get Exchange built in and shit.
 
Go domain, for management of the clients alone it makes it worth it. That and they always want to login to each other's computers; password sync between systems would be a bitch without a domain.

As far as the specs, that really depends on what software they are running. I'm tempted to say that anything modern would work, but I know of a few dental apps that are hogs so..
 
Hmmm... interesting topic

I'm pretty much the part-time admin of a dental office network now but when I inherited the network it was on a workgroup... I've thought about converting it to domain but workgroup seems to work (no pun intended) for them because in the actual dental operatories they always leave those computers. The dentist/hygienist/assistant can't be bothered to log in each time they switch operatories when they have a new patient. With the workgroup method they can just have a generic login where everyone knows the password and it can stay logged in (eg. 'op1', 'op2', etc.). Can someone convince me, knowing this requirement, that it's still a good idea to go domain?

So to answer the OP's first question, the one I am maintaining is workgroup but domain is definitely in the back of my mind.
 
marley1 said:
Domain is great and should be done in buisness environments, but 6 users may be overkill.

Why dont you give us a bit more information about the setup. Like if the dental or secretary software they are using will be a network version or really what they will be using.

If it is a network based software, then you mite as well run a domain because you will already have the hardware.

Your server can handle the DHCP, DNS, Domain, File/Print serving. Get a OEM server (dell, hp, etc) because a white box will become a hasle.... for example i had a few clients who i built computers for back maybe 3 years ago, the motherboard fails, and its impossible to get a new motherboard for it then they are left upgrading the whole computer. Going through a OEM you will usually have a 3yr warranty on server.

Do they need email hosting as well? If so look into the SBS server, can get Exchange built in and shit.
Click to expand...

Some what agreed. It is overkill but if the requirements for the office need people logging into other machines then a domain is the way to go.
If the computers can have a standard password that everyone knows then you bypass the need for a domain but the HIPPA act require security which covers passwords.
Sorry for the long thread but go with a domain and win2k3. For that small of an office you could get small business server 2k3 and be able to host your own email.
 
marley1 said:
Domain is great and should be done in buisness environments, but 6 users may be overkill.

Why dont you give us a bit more information about the setup. Like if the dental or secretary software they are using will be a network version or really what they will be using.

If it is a network based software, then you mite as well run a domain because you will already have the hardware.

Your server can handle the DHCP, DNS, Domain, File/Print serving. Get a OEM server (dell, hp, etc) because a white box will become a hasle.... for example i had a few clients who i built computers for back maybe 3 years ago, the motherboard fails, and its impossible to get a new motherboard for it then they are left upgrading the whole computer. Going through a OEM you will usually have a 3yr warranty on server.

Do they need email hosting as well? If so look into the SBS server, can get Exchange built in and shit.
Click to expand...

Bean Dip said:
AMEN. If you go with a workgroup you will be constantly making trips back to fix goofy stuff.

Their setup depends on the dental software they plan to use. If it is a network version (I cannot imagine anything not being these days) then you should get a simple server using Windows server or Small Business Server.

Have you setup a Windows network with a domain before? If not then you might want to bring someone in who has because while it is relatively easy there are a lot of caveats that can be done incorrectly and create problems.
Click to expand...

pookguy88 said:
Hmmm... interesting topic

I'm pretty much the part-time admin of a dental office network now but when I inherited the network it was on a workgroup... I've thought about converting it to domain but workgroup seems to work (no pun intended) for them because in the actual dental operatories they always leave those computers. The dentist/hygienist/assistant can't be bothered to log in each time they switch operatories when they have a new patient. With the workgroup method they can just have a generic login where everyone knows the password and it can stay logged in (eg. 'op1', 'op2', etc.). Can someone convince me, knowing this requirement, that it's still a good idea to go domain?

So to answer the OP's first question, the one I am maintaining is workgroup but domain is definitely in the back of my mind.
Click to expand...

shade_star said:
Some what agreed. It is overkill but if the requirements for the office need people logging into other machines then a domain is the way to go.
If the computers can have a standard password that everyone knows then you bypass the need for a domain but the HIPPA act require security which covers passwords.
Sorry for the long thread but go with a domain and win2k3. For that small of an office you could get small business server 2k3 and be able to host your own email.
Click to expand...

(btw, im the client :D ) Well we would like email so that can be an option.
I'm leaning toward a domain instead of a workgroup just so that I can deploy passwords and rights to each member. We are a fairly low volume office so logging in each time will not be a problem. There are three ops. I have not decided on practice management software yet, but most likely we will use the domain approach.

As far as hardware goes for a domain setup, will dual cpus be needed or can I just use one of these new Intel Quads coming out soon?

My idea for a server was 4 gigs of ddr3, an intel core 2 quad (the new ones not out yet) and SATA2 hdd array(s). But would two dual core opterons with four gigs of FB-DIMM ram be better?

No scsi or SAS. I'm going with SATA2 due to lower price.

My office will have three workstations (one per op), one front desk computer, and one office computer.

Thanks for all inputs/comments so far

- AMD_RULES
 
I don't think Quad Core really has any programs that will use it to its fullest.

I just configured a server for one of our clients (maybe 10-15 workstations, a contracting program, and just file server). We priced them out a Dell Poweredge 840 with a Dual Core Xeon, which should be plenty for there needs. As far as ram we did 2GB but more is always a good thing, we did SATA Raid 5 with 250gig drives, and the RD1000 for a backup solution. I think the server was like 2-2.5grand.

I really suggest not building a server yourself. You may save a little bit of money, but you cant get 3year warranty with parts from newegg.

SBS 2003 R2 will be good for you as you can take advantage of the built in Exchange. I hate SBS but it will work for you guys. Just make sure to get a static IP and some spam protection.

That help much?
 
Definately go with a built server from Dell or a major vendor like that. The support from a major vendor is important especially when your dealing with a live business. If they cant ring sales or conduct daily operations they are in big trouble. Most server support from big vendors is excellent.
You wont need a quad core cpu for that small of a set up. SATA disks are fine unless your main application is disk intensive but I dont see that with such a small set of users.
On the spam setup I HIGHLY recommend an online filtering service such as Microsoft Exchange filtering. Its like $800 for a year and you dont have to load any crap software on your server. Works extremely well and about the same cost as a decent software solution. If your emamil box ever goes down it will also store your email until your box is back online.
I am also not a big fan of small business server but if you dont see this office/company growing beyond 60 ish users then dont go for full blown win2k.
 
For spam - also look into GFI Mail Essential.

When i was testing hosting exchange, i ran a trial of that, and it was amazing, 200 buck software and was blocking as much as AppRiver/Postini did.
 
Typically when we setup any medical office, we implement two servers. One for SBS and the other for the practice management software. As tempting as it may be to stuff everything on one box, here are our reasons for two server setups:

1. If everything is on one server, the PM software will not run as smoothly or efficiently
2. PM Tech support may have issues when there is so much "stuff" running on a single server.
3. If your server goes down, *everything* is down. At least with two servers, *some* level of productivity is still obtainable.
4. If the client expands, a dual server setup scales better than a single server.
5. Less likely of running into any possible software conflicts. We've run into situations where the PM software would crash constantly if installed on SBS.
6. Easier recovery of PM software. Lets face it, the PM software is your most mission critical piece of the network. Keep your PM server as simple as possible in order to have the ability to recover as quickly as possible.
 
SJConsultant said:
Typically when we setup any medical office, we implement two servers. One for SBS and the other for the practice management software. As tempting as it may be to stuff everything on one box, here are our reasons for two server setups:

1. If everything is on one server, the PM software will not run as smoothly or efficiently
2. PM Tech support may have issues when there is so much "stuff" running on a single server.
3. If your server goes down, *everything* is down. At least with two servers, *some* level of productivity is still obtainable.
4. If the client expands, a dual server setup scales better than a single server.
5. Less likely of running into any possible software conflicts. We've run into situations where the PM software would crash constantly if installed on SBS.
6. Easier recovery of PM software. Lets face it, the PM software is your most mission critical piece of the network. Keep your PM server as simple as possible in order to have the ability to recover as quickly as possible.
Click to expand...
Great Response :)
Would the PM server have to be as fast as the primary server or would it have to be identical to the op workstations? Client or Server OS?
Also, when you say
" Keep your PM server as simple as possible in order to have the ability to recover as quickly as possible "
Click to expand...
, are you saying keep the hard drive config to something like RAID1 instead of another RAID configuration such as RAID 5? :confused:

Thank's for your response as it was very helpful and seems to be a better approach than I was heading towards. ;)
 
AMD_RULES said:
Great Response :)
Would the PM server have to be as fast as the primary server or would it have to be identical to the op workstations? Client or Server OS?
Click to expand...

That will depend on your PM software. But to make things easier for management and troubleshooting, we setup two identical servers.

AMD_RULES said:
Also, when you say , are you saying keep the hard drive config to something like RAID1 instead of another RAID configuration such as RAID 5? :confused:
Click to expand...

No, what I mean is if your running PM software like Dentrix or Eaglesoft, then only run that software on the server. Make it a domain member, but do not make it a domain controller. Keeping the software installation as simple as possible makes for an easier and quicker time to recover should you ever have a meltdown.

For raid configurations, we go minimum hardware Raid1 for budget conscious offices, whereas we prefer to do RAID 5 or 10 (again depends on your software, network size, performance needs, etc) with a hot spare. If the RAID fails and you have a hot spare, the system will automatically start rebuilding the RAID array with the spare drive.


One other point, if you go with a major OEM like Dell or HP, go for their silver or gold warranties. For medical offices with long hours, we prefer 24/7 with 4 hour parts service. However the level warranty will be determined by your business needs.
 
I have a few dentist offices. I encourage you to stay away from a SATA driven server...performance being the main reason. After doing a few budget servers for other small clients...I won't use them for app servers or DCs or heavy file sharing servers. Pretty much all I'll use them for is smaller terminal servers. Time and time again, real world experience has shown me SATA driven servers simply don't have the performance for heavy concurrent use. Dental software...I have clients running Patterson/Eaglesoft, Dentrix, Dexis, Sidexis, Kodak PracticeWorks....they can pound the server. SATA is sluggish. 15k SAS rules....and it's NOT that much more expensive anymore.

With imagining being so integrated now...go with gigabit. Workstations come with giga NICs, servers come with giga NICs, and giga switches are sooo affordable now. This week we're rewiring a large dentist office..cat6 through, and a nice new giga switch.

For SPAM, with the *nix UTM appliances out now (Endian, Untangle)..combined with the quite effective IMF in Exchange...those two things are FREE..and work well.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
For SPAM, with the *nix UTM appliances out now (Endian, Untangle)..combined with the quite effective IMF in Exchange...those two things are FREE..and work well.
Click to expand...

which one of those unix apps do you like? i was looking at both of them but couldn't decide which would be good for spam protection.

that GFI program is really good, have you tried it? what did you think about it? it seemed to do an amazing job for me and i didn't even have the bayesian filter. i would want more with logging however, something like appriver has, so i can go in and push out emails, does utangle or endian have that?
 
Only dental office I run has dentrix and they set it up in a workgroup enviroment. Personaly I think that was a bad idea and would have run it as a domain and just had the computers at each station share a login.

They are running 10 stations or so and have the server running off a single set of mirrored sata drives which is also something I would have avoided. Personaly I think 2 mirrors sata sets is enough for that small of a setup. Also you could prob get away with running sbs and dentrix on the same system although if possible I would run 2 systems like sj said. The big issue with sbs is that it is a 32 bit system and with exchange, av, anti-spam, mail av, dns, ad, etc all on it ram can be an issue. We have a few sbs boxes that are hitting the 4 gig limit. That being said something like dentrix on a sbs box should be ok. The "server" for the dental software should be a full server box, not a workstation.

I'd prob buy a dell or hp server and be done with it also.
 
Wow, lots of good advice here

question(s):

With most everyone saying domain > workgroup, what would be involved in converting the dental office I maintain to a domain setup? Does active directory assign static IPs? How does something like the xray machine work? It's essentially a networked appliance that just gets an IP, how does active directory deal with those? Do they need to be joined to the domain?
 
pookguy88 said:
Wow, lots of good advice here

question(s):

With most everyone saying domain > workgroup, what would be involved in converting the dental office I maintain to a domain setup? Does active directory assign static IPs? How does something like the xray machine work? It's essentially a networked appliance that just gets an IP, how does active directory deal with those? Do they need to be joined to the domain?
Click to expand...

Active directory does not assign a static address(you can force a static ip on a vpn connection though). The DHCP server in windows server can however assign a static address to a computer based on its mac address. As far as the xray machine all you should need to do is provide a windows username and password to it if it uses windows filesharing. Depending on its age maybe disable the encryption on the smb traffic.

As far as converting a network pretty much if you already have a windows server you would need to promote it to a domain controller and install dns on it(if it isn't already installed). Would be better to have it handle dhcp instead of a router too. From there you would then joing the machines to the domain you created(after making users and whatnot in the active directory)

I should mention if you haven't done this type of stuff before have a consultant come in and do the work for you. They will be expensive but worth it. If you want to learn about domains read up on it and setup a test domain with a trial copy of windows 2k3 in a virtual pc or a spare system. Don't try it on a live production system.
 
a 2Ghz Core 2 Quad will work fine. 4GB of ram and sas drives.

If you need e-mail i'd look at Microsoft SBS.

I would checkout dell outlet if you want to p[ickup a decent server and save a little $$.

No question about, You need a domain. You need cenetrlized managment and security.
 
No, what I mean is if your running PM software like Dentrix or Eaglesoft, then only run that software on the server. Make it a domain member, but do not make it a domain controller. Keeping the software installation as simple as possible makes for an easier and quicker time to recover should you ever have a meltdown.

For raid configurations, we go minimum hardware Raid1 for budget conscious offices, whereas we prefer to do RAID 5 or 10 (again depends on your software, network size, performance needs, etc) with a hot spare. If the RAID fails and you have a hot spare, the system will automatically start rebuilding the RAID array with the spare drive.


One other point, if you go with a major OEM like Dell or HP, go for their silver or gold warranties. For medical offices with long hours, we prefer 24/7 with 4 hour parts service. However the level warranty will be determined by your business needs.
Click to expand...
Well with two identical servers, since the SBS server would probably run as DC, DHCP, DNS, etc; is the data stored on the PM server or the SBS? OR both??
Should each have the same identical storage capacity or should the SBS server have less space since it would not store any data if that is the case?

Also, when you say "to identical servers", are these setup in a Fail-Over setup or is one of the servers in charge of controling the domain and the other is in charge of running the software and storage of the data for that software?

Thanks for any clarification that can be and has been posted. :)

-AMD_RULES
 
AMD_RULES said:
Well with two identical servers, since the SBS server would probably run as DC, DHCP, DNS, etc; is the data stored on the PM server or the SBS? OR both??
Should each have the same identical storage capacity or should the SBS server have less space since it would not store any data if that is the case?

Also, when you say "to identical servers", are these setup in a Fail-Over setup or is one of the servers in charge of controling the domain and the other is in charge of running the software and storage of the data for that software?

Thanks for any clarification that can be and has been posted. :)

-AMD_RULES
Click to expand...

One thing with SBS is you cant have more then one domain controller. The purpose of having 2 servers is redudancy.

You will have Server 1 as your Domain Controller, DHCP, DNS, File Server
You may want Server 2 to be something like Secondary Domain (cant with SBS), Secondary DNS, and then your Software Application.

So if server 1 fails you will still be able to log in and have access the software.

For a office of 6 tho, i would probably go the more budget router as 2 servers will put you in the 5-6grand area, I would run 1 beefy server and load everything on that. If i was to run 2 servers i would get away from SBS, and have one primary domain and a secondary domain controller.

6 workstations will not really put that big of a load on a Dual Xeon setup i bet.

Did that help?
 
The data will be stored where ever you want it to be. If you have 2 servers you can put the files on either server, If you have one server then only one spot.

What kind of budget are we looking at here?

Cause even the entry level Poweredge 840 is ~2500-3000 at a decent configuration (includes Server 03 R2).

If you can afford 2, it would be beneficial down the road if you expand or do more things with the server.
 
Also another thing to think about...who is gonna be supporting these servers? Are you gonna be onsite or what? Cause you gotta factor that into budget. Also gotta factor in networking equipment (firewalls, switches, etc). So give us some kind of budget so we can help you pick out the equipment. Also would be nice with a link to the software you plan to use for the dentist practice so we can get an idea of resources
 
marley1 said:
Also another thing to think about...who is gonna be supporting these servers? Are you gonna be onsite or what? Cause you gotta factor that into budget. Also gotta factor in networking equipment (firewalls, switches, etc). So give us some kind of budget so we can help you pick out the equipment. Also would be nice with a link to the software you plan to use for the dentist practice so we can get an idea of resources
Click to expand...
Well the purpose of this thread is only to decide on the server, I have already decided on the switches and firewall. For the server(s), I was looking at a max budget of around $5000.

The software will most likely be this software which does not provide information on their website, but I will be in contact with them soon.

http://www.perioexec.com/perio-exec/

marley1 said:
The data will be stored where ever you want it to be. If you have 2 servers you can put the files on either server, If you have one server then only one spot.

What kind of budget are we looking at here?

Cause even the entry level Poweredge 840 is ~2500-3000 at a decent configuration (includes Server 03 R2).

If you can afford 2, it would be beneficial down the road if you expand or do more things with the server.
Click to expand...
[ See above answer ]

marley1 said:
One thing with SBS is you cant have more then one domain controller. The purpose of having 2 servers is redudancy.

You will have Server 1 as your Domain Controller, DHCP, DNS, File Server
You may want Server 2 to be something like Secondary Domain (cant with SBS), Secondary DNS, and then your Software Application.

So if server 1 fails you will still be able to log in and have access the software.

For a office of 6 tho, i would probably go the more budget router as 2 servers will put you in the 5-6grand area, I would run 1 beefy server and load everything on that. If i was to run 2 servers i would get away from SBS, and have one primary domain and a secondary domain controller.

6 workstations will not really put that big of a load on a Dual Xeon setup i bet.

Did that help?
Click to expand...
yes that helped. I would rather have one powerful server than two servers as it would be easier on me now and the future to maintain. I will be onsite often.

I am leaning toward building this server since I will be able to troubleshoot and maintain the thing myself, so I was looking at doing something extreme that may be overkill, but won't be too slow for the network needs.
 
marley1 said:
One thing with SBS is you cant have more then one domain controller. The purpose of having 2 servers is redudancy.

You will have Server 1 as your Domain Controller, DHCP, DNS, File Server
You may want Server 2 to be something like Secondary Domain (cant with SBS), Secondary DNS, and then your Software Application.

So if server 1 fails you will still be able to log in and have access the software.

For a office of 6 tho, i would probably go the more budget router as 2 servers will put you in the 5-6grand area, I would run 1 beefy server and load everything on that. If i was to run 2 servers i would get away from SBS, and have one primary domain and a secondary domain controller.

6 workstations will not really put that big of a load on a Dual Xeon setup i bet.

Did that help?
Click to expand...

First off SBS can have other domain controlers on the network. Hell we have a few clients that have it setup like this. The sbs box just wants to be the head. If it does down the others will take the rights from it.

As far as processing power goes it really isn't that important in this small of an enviroment. A single core 2 xeon will do fine. Go with a quad core or dual dual cores if you want some expansion for the future. Ram is a bigger issue. As I said with sbs having exchange and everything 4 gigs can be hit pretty fast. This will be the issue on a single server. Even with that though dentrix on that small of an enviroment should be fine. I say dentrix as I have experience with that one.

I would prob go with a xeon board with a single chip in it. Down the road it can always be upgraded to dual chips if needed.
 
I'm gonna recommend it again, DO NOT BUILD. It sounds like a good idea, but you wont end up saving much money and its only got at most a 1 year warranty on parts. If a part fails your fucked if online doesn't stock it.

You can still get an overbuilt server from buying, and once you build a desktop its all the same crap.

When you contact that Perio Exec company post back with some software requirements.

But as of right now you are planning:
1 - Domain Controller, DHCP, DNS
2 - File, Software Application, Printer Server
3 - Maybe Exchange?

If you aren't serious about Exchange 1 server will be plenty. You may not find it in the budget to do Exchange as it gets pricey with cals, spam protection and such.

I will be waiting for the software requirements, then i'll help you some more.
 
swatbat said:
First off SBS can have other domain controlers on the network. Hell we have a few clients that have it setup like this. The sbs box just wants to be the head. If it does down the others will take the rights from it.

As far as processing power goes it really isn't that important in this small of an enviroment. A single core 2 xeon will do fine. Go with a quad core or dual dual cores if you want some expansion for the future. Ram is a bigger issue. As I said with sbs having exchange and everything 4 gigs can be hit pretty fast. This will be the issue on a single server. Even with that though dentrix on that small of an enviroment should be fine. I say dentrix as I have experience with that one.

I would prob go with a xeon board with a single chip in it. Down the road it can always be upgraded to dual chips if needed.
Click to expand...
I have been thinking it over the last day or so and I dont think we're gonna need email so Im gonna go with Server 2003 Std Edition or maybe Server 2008 depending on when I deploy the network.

How would this work out for now and future needs?

1. Two Intel Dual Core Xeon Processors
2. Four Gigs of DDR2 FB-DIMM DDR667 RAM
3. SAS HDDS (2 in Raid 1 for OS) | (three or more in RAID 5 for DATA)**

** Still deciding on space size
 
marley1 said:
I'm gonna recommend it again, DO NOT BUILD. It sounds like a good idea, but you wont end up saving much money and its only got at most a 1 year warranty on parts. If a part fails your fucked if online doesn't stock it.

You can still get an overbuilt server from buying, and once you build a desktop its all the same crap.

When you contact that Perio Exec company post back with some software requirements.

But as of right now you are planning:
1 - Domain Controller, DHCP, DNS
2 - File, Software Application, Printer Server
3 - Maybe Exchange?

If you aren't serious about Exchange 1 server will be plenty. You may not find it in the budget to do Exchange as it gets pricey with cals, spam protection and such.

I will be waiting for the software requirements, then i'll help you some more.
Click to expand...

I will let you know shortly :)

Well if you are suggesting an OEM company, what kind of config do u suggest?

********* EDIT

Sorry for double post
 
AMD_RULES said:
I have been thinking it over the last day or so and I dont think we're gonna need email so Im gonna go with Server 2003 Std Edition or maybe Server 2008 depending on when I deploy the network.

How would this work out for now and future needs?

1. Two Intel Dual Core Xeon Processors
2. Four Gigs of DDR2 FB-DIMM DDR667 RAM
3. SAS HDDS (2 in Raid 1 for OS) | (three or more in RAID 5 for DATA)**

** Still deciding on space size
Click to expand...

Looks good, minus the hard drive config, id just go with a nice Raid 5 array with hot swap, no reason to have raid 1 for os, kinda pointless.

If you can afford it, stick with Server 2003 R2 instead of SBS. I have a strong hatred for all the built in nonsense of SBS. Sometimes doing things manually in SBS will screw it all up. Server 2008 is still beta, and i messed with it at work and no drivers around.

If you run 4gigs, you will want the 64bit OS, so just make sure the dental software is supported.

Also you didn't mention anything with backup. I'm a big fan of remote backup. Depending how much data it is mite wanna look into Mozy Pro or atleast some tape drive. The RD1000 from dell has been getting alot of good reviews.

But again please weight the pros and cons with building your own server vs buying from a Tier brand. Many people in this forum all suggest buying compared to building.
 
AMD_RULES said:
I will let you know shortly :)

Well if you are suggesting an OEM company, what kind of config do u suggest?

********* EDIT

Sorry for double post
Click to expand...

post counts are going up with this thread =)

Anyway, i configured a Poweredge 840 for my client. Will be plenty for them but its only single proc.

Look into the Poweredge 1900 as that can do dual proc. Then just do your raid 5 config with hotswap, backup drive, etc.

When you get some specs 2morrow ill help you configure one. Feel free to pm me.
 
marley1 said:
Looks good, minus the hard drive config, id just go with a nice Raid 5 array with hot swap, no reason to have raid 1 for os, kinda pointless.

If you can afford it, stick with Server 2003 R2 instead of SBS. I have a strong hatred for all the built in nonsense of SBS. Sometimes doing things manually in SBS will screw it all up. Server 2008 is still beta, and i messed with it at work and no drivers around.

If you run 4gigs, you will want the 64bit OS, so just make sure the dental software is supported.

Also you didn't mention anything with backup. I'm a big fan of remote backup. Depending how much data it is mite wanna look into Mozy Pro or atleast some tape drive. The RD1000 from dell has been getting alot of good reviews.

But again please weight the pros and cons with building your own server vs buying from a Tier brand. Many people in this forum all suggest buying compared to building.
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Now with you and other suggestions, I'm leaning toward an OEM brand server, most likely one of those new HP ML series servers.

What would be needed to do a remote disk-to-disk backup from the server at the office to a file server at my home?

Also, this might sound like a bunch of shit to someone like you with experience in networking unlike me, but does Windows Server 2003 Standard Edition R2 x64 support Windows Vista Business x64 clients?

Thanks for your help and I'm in the process of contacting the company for some hardware requirements.

- AMD_RULES
 
AMD_RULES said:
Now with you and other suggestions, I'm leaning toward an OEM brand server, most likely one of those new HP ML series servers.

What would be needed to do a remote disk-to-disk backup from the server at the office to a file server at my home?

Also, this might sound like a bunch of shit to someone like you with experience in networking unlike me, but does Windows Server 2003 Standard Edition R2 x64 support Windows Vista Business x64 clients?

Thanks for your help and I'm in the process of contacting the company for some hardware requirements.

- AMD_RULES
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Yes 2003 supports vista clients, no problem there, just make sure that your dental program runs on vista.
As far as backup goes for a small office a tape drive is fine then at the end of the beginning of each day have an employee swap the tape and take that one home. I wouldnt start out with a back to network solution. Its too small of an office.

You can back up to your house by setting up a VPN from your house to the office then mapping drives or something like that but then you introduce the risk of your home interferring with the client.
Virii on your backup machine, files accidentally getting deleted off of your machine, hardware failure, etc.
 
Logmein has a backup utility where its like 30 bucks for the program i think, encrypted and you can transfer on your side. You could also setup some kind of ftp script.

Mozy Pro is baller if you ask me, i can give you a price if you want to be on my servers so you dont have to sign up for reseller account.

Tapes are cheap tho, depending how much data u got.

PM me or AIM me up, my girl is leaving me for a little bit 2nite so i can nerd it up with server talk if you want.
 
I like what's been posted on this thread so far.

Basically, it all comes down to waiting on your requirements for your software package. If you've opted out of exchange for the office then you're in the clear for using Server 2003 R2 instead of SBS. (I'm with Marley on the hatred of everything being built into one server).

Server wise, if you're budget conscious you get a lot of bang for your buck with the Dell 840. If you're more serious and want to drop the 5k you mentioned previosly I'd go with a Dell 2900 as you have TONS of options including a big one... dual PSUs. Dell makes great stuff but ish happens and you don't want to be dead in the water because a power supply blew. Dual Proc is up to you and the software requirements... usually a good idea to have. Hard Drives are important and I'd suggest 4 or 5 160gb satas in Raid5. RD1000 seems good for economical onsite backup. Mozy Pro as a redundant offsite backup.

I don't know all that much about HP's servers but they're tech support from my experience doesn't compare with Dell's server techs.

I'm a reseller for Dell and could probably get you a better price than what's on the site if you're interested.
 
I just looked at the ML configuration, much more expensive then the comparable Dell.

just configured a Dell real quick

Dell PowerEdge 1900
2 x Quad Core Intel® Xeon® E5320, 2x4MB Cache, 1.86GHz, 1066MHz FSB
4GB 667MHz (4x1GB), Dual Ranked Fully Buffered DIMMs
Windows Server® 2003 R2, Standard x64 Edition with SP2,Includes 5 CALs
PERC 5/i, PCI-Express, Integrated Controller Card
4 x 250GB 7.2K RPM Serial ATA 3Gbps 3.5-in Cabled Hard Drive
RD1000, Internal SATA Drive Bay
QTY 3,Removable HD Cartridge for RD1000 Drive,160GB native/320GB compressed


$$$$ 3,516


Anyway the upgrade to the Quad Core made the most sense. You will get Raid 5 with a hotspare, and be able to backup to the RD1000. I figured you wouldn't have more then 160GB to backup. media is a hell of alot cheaper to get off ebay.

Anyway thats a good start if you ask me.

Add battery backup from www.refurbups.com or new if you want. Add whatever backup software you like ( can use NT Backup built into Windows 03), or use a program.

What you think?
 
dual psu i skipped over, go up to the 2900 for that like fluidimagery said. shouldn't be too bad of a price diff.
 
AMD_RULES said:
I have been thinking it over the last day or so and I dont think we're gonna need email so Im gonna go with Server 2003 Std Edition or maybe Server 2008 depending on when I deploy the network.

How would this work out for now and future needs?

1. Two Intel Dual Core Xeon Processors
2. Four Gigs of DDR2 FB-DIMM DDR667 RAM
3. SAS HDDS (2 in Raid 1 for OS) | (three or more in RAID 5 for DATA)**

** Still deciding on space size
Click to expand...

I'd prob go with a single quad core chip over dual dual cores as you can upgrade by throwing in a second chip down the road if you want.

As far as 4 gigs it will work fine and see all 4 gigs with most servers on the 32bit os. If all of your software supports a 64bit os though you might want to look at it.

Also I prefer the dual raids like you are talking about but in a lot of cases a 3 drive raid 5 will not be any faster then a raid 1. With a database back end I would prob stick with a raid 1 for data or run a raid 10.

The dell 2900's that someone recomened are great machines. You should be able to pickup a quad core with 4 gigs of ram, 2k3 r2, 4 sata drives, raid controller, drac card, and a lto drive(200 gig native backup) for around 4 grand. Thats with dual power supplies. System also has dual gigabit nics that support teaming(which most servers do). Figure a few hundred more for sas if you need it. For that small of a setup sata should work fine.

We have a bunch of clients running the 2900's now. Pretty much in most cases we could get them for 200 to 300 more then a 1900 if that. For the dual power supplies and nics it was worth it. Also those LTO drives are nice and fast. They are really what I recomend for tape backups now.
 
swatbat said:
I'd prob go with a single quad core chip over dual dual cores as you can upgrade by throwing in a second chip down the road if you want.
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I personally disagree... go with two... if one goes bad, you can still operate until you get a replacement when you have two CPU's.....

I'd rather have two slower chips, than one faster for that very reason.

QJ
 
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