would upgrading help much for WoW

WoW is not very graphic intensive. I am going to guess that your CPU is the reason for the low fps. While the toons in WoW are pretty low-poly, when you are near a ton of people your CPU has alot of work to do.

Any WoW experts out there?

Yes a better video card could help some (epecially is you are running at a higher resolutions) but not a huge deal IMHO.

-JB
 
Would depend on the resolution you are playing on. I was playing WOW for awhile with a 3.2GHz AMD64 with a 7600 gt at 1680x1050 almost all settings maxed, 4xAA, and don't remember any significant slowdowns; I primarily played in battlegrounds. However, in other games like Battlefield 2142 I could only manage that res with the settings on low and 2xAA. If WoW is your primary concern though then I would say it is a good match for that game.

Quick number crunch of the 9800xt vs 7600gt at GPUreview.com and the 7600gt has about double the performance in all the areas that matter.

Except that card you linked looks on the expensive side. Try this: xfx 7600gt instead. Slightly lower core and clock speed, but nothing a little manual overclocking shouldn't overcome, but I doubt that will be necessary.
 
Personally, if you were going to get a X1950 Pro, I would pick a brand other than Gecube, such as a HIS (non-ICEQ3) which is even cheaper.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161070R

The reason I say this is because the Gecube and Visiontek X1950 Pro's do not carry a readable temp diode on the card like the other Pro's do. So there is no temp monitoring. Unless of course this is not important to you.

And if you want to save a few more bucks, the X1950GT is virtually the same as the Pro, but with lower clocks. However, there is also a good chance you can overclock it to Pro speeds.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102093&Tpk=x1950GT+agp

And yes you would see a nice bump in performance. A friend of mine plays WOW and he just upgraded to only a 1650 Pro and was pleased with the upgrade.
 
Hey Mr. Valentine first off there is some life left in your system. I would upgrade your video card but cap the upgrade under $150. There is no wipe of the HD as per your earlier post you just have to uninstall the current card drivers and install the new ones. I would go with teh 7600 gt they can be had for under $80 after mir and will give you a noticable improvement on every game you play!

here is a link for the card

XFX 7600 GT
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150233

If you want to go with a more powerful card than this it brings the capability of your psu into play. A 7900 series nvidia or x1950 series ati card need 400-500 Watt minimum psu fyi! :D
 
Let me clean this up for you. I have come across the same issue with 6 pc's now. I know this games hardware cravings inside and out now.

WoW is not very graphic intensive. I am going to guess that your CPU is the reason for the low fps.
Click to expand...

Wrong. It's actually quite balanced. I will tell you one thing that you will need for it to run well and that is ram. You can have a quad core and 8800 ultra but if you only have 512mb of ram, you wont be able to play it on medium settings above 30fps. Honestly, the proc is the least of the factors. Its more 40% ram, 40% videocard and 20% cpu. I have seen it run EXTREMELY well on a celeron 1.6ghz. It was coupled with a 7600gs and 1gb of generic ram.

Upgrading your video card will definitely help, especially radeon 9800 is a pretty old card.
Click to expand...

Correct. It only goes so far though. I found that after a certain point, the game bottlenecks the graphics card. On the ATI side anything after the x850xt will only see marginal increases. On the Nvidia side its starts at about the 7600gt. I have played personally with a 7600gt, 7600gt (SLI), X1900gt, X850xt, x800xl, 9600xt, 5200gt, 5600gt, 6600gt, Intel 950 and go 7600. If I were on your budget, I would agree with this poster and get a 7600gt. The only place you are going to see below 30-40fps is in Shat. But even then, its just crappy coding on blizzard's side. I see almost identical FPS running it maxed in 1440x900 on a e6600 with 4gb Patriot DDR 800 and the top system in my sig.

Notes for the lazy:
-Not cpu bound. More 40% ram 40% cpu and 20% cpu.
-Videocard upgrade good to a point because of coding.
-Anything above a 7900gs or 1900gt is overkill
 
Your system is fine for except your video card which is pretty old. I would save my money and do a overall upgrade so I could take advantage of the faster and more future proof PCi-Express slot. Sure you could buy a decent AGP card but really its not going to last you as long as your current system has and in the near future when Wotlk (wow expansion for anyone that doesnt know) comes out with the new graphical upgrades they are planning you are gonna be in the same boat all over again.

I would save my pennies til about a month before the new expansion comes out and then do a overall system upgrade. Trust me on this you will be very happy you waited and saved the doe to do so.
 
I was able to play wow with my 9800pro and my chip downclocked to 500mhz. Very little lag even in IF. A 9800 is plenty for WoW as long as you don't go past 1600x1200.
 
Another possible bottleneck to look into with WoW is harddisk performance. Sometimes, a good defrag can do wonders, especially after they release one of those big patches. People around might tell you that defragmenting once in a while does nothing, I say they're full of crap.

If you follow the suggestion of other posts in building a completely new system, make sure to have a second drive (not necessarily big or especially fast) to install WoW onto. When I made this change, I found that entering instances was much faster, and the time between entering a big city and all of the people showing up decreased.
 
MrValentine said:
Current specs

P4 3.4Ghz
Abit- IC7 mobo (AGP for those that dont know the board)
9800XT vid card
2G of XMS 3500 cas 2

I'm getting anywhere from 12-22 fps in WoW and thinking of upgrading the vid card to
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150210

Would it be enough of a jump to warrent the wipe and reinstall?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Confusing, isn't it? The only thing that wasn't suggested to you was that you buy a MAC. :p

However, I'd still go with the X1950GT/X1950 Pro regardless of a possible bottleneck if your power supply is up to it. If not, be prpepared to upgrade. To be safe, you should have at least a 425w-450w PSU with 25-30a on the +12v rail (s). If not, go for a lesser card. The GT is only $119 US including the rebate.
 
lloose said:
Let me clean this up for you. I have come across the same issue with 6 pc's now. I know this games hardware cravings inside and out now.



Wrong. It's actually quite balanced. I will tell you one thing that you will need for it to run well and that is ram. You can have a quad core and 8800 ultra but if you only have 512mb of ram, you wont be able to play it on medium settings above 30fps. Honestly, the proc is the least of the factors. Its more 40% ram, 40% videocard and 20% cpu. I have seen it run EXTREMELY well on a celeron 1.6ghz. It was coupled with a 7600gs and 1gb of generic ram.



Correct. It only goes so far though. I found that after a certain point, the game bottlenecks the graphics card. On the ATI side anything after the x850xt will only see marginal increases. On the Nvidia side its starts at about the 7600gt. I have played personally with a 7600gt, 7600gt (SLI), X1900gt, X850xt, x800xl, 9600xt, 5200gt, 5600gt, 6600gt, Intel 950 and go 7600. If I were on your budget, I would agree with this poster and get a 7600gt. The only place you are going to see below 30-40fps is in Shat. But even then, its just crappy coding on blizzard's side. I see almost identical FPS running it maxed in 1440x900 on a e6600 with 4gb Patriot DDR 800 and the top system in my sig.

Notes for the lazy:
-Not cpu bound. More 40% ram 40% cpu and 20% cpu.
-Videocard upgrade good to a point because of coding.
-Anything above a 7900gs or 1900gt is overkill
Click to expand...

Sorry but I have to disagree. If he is getting playable fps and it drops when more people are near then it's usually the CPU. WoW has graphics that are about 2001 in caliber and in 2001 the 9800Pro would have ruled. What WoW does have is a ton of players in certain areas.

Now in any other MMORPG - Lotro, EQ2, Vancrap - well those have pretty up to date graphics and then your video card is the issue.

There is an easy test to see if it's low fps due to video or CPU:

Turn graphics down to the lowest setting and if the fps is about the same in areas with few or many players then it's most likely the video card.

If you turn down the video all the way and you still see a noticable drop in fps when you are around a ton of people vs very few then it's your cpu.

-JB
 
jrb531 said:
Sorry but I have to disagree. If he is getting playable fps and it drops when more people are near then it's usually the CPU. WoW has graphics that are about 2001 in caliber and in 2001 the 9800Pro would have ruled. What WoW does have is a ton of players in certain areas.

Now in any other MMORPG - Lotro, EQ2, Vancrap - well those have pretty up to date graphics and then your video card is the issue.

There is an easy test to see if it's low fps due to video or CPU:

Turn graphics down to the lowest setting and if the fps is about the same in areas with few or many players then it's most likely the video card.

If you turn down the video all the way and you still see a noticable drop in fps when you are around a ton of people vs very few then it's your cpu.

-JB
Click to expand...

2001? The game was released in 2004. The graphics aren't top of the line, but there have been expansions, patches and new features in their graphics engine. Even when I upgraded to my 8800gts, it unlocked new graphical features. A 9800pro is weaker than a 6600gt and a p4 3.4 will slate just fine in oblivion with a new graphics card and you think that its the cpu? sorry.. I still stand by original post.
 
lloose said:
2001? The game was released in 2004. The graphics aren't top of the line, but there have been expansions, patches and new features in their graphics engine. Even when I upgraded to my 8800gts, it unlocked new graphical features. A 9800pro is weaker than a 6600gt and a p4 3.4 will slate just fine in oblivion with a new graphics card and you think that its the cpu? sorry.. I still stand by original post.
Click to expand...

Well maybe 2001 is a bit too early but Unreal came out in 1998

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal

http://images.google.com/images?q=u...F-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GFRC&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi

While you could say that WoW has better graphics than Unreal 1 it would not be by much.

How About Unreal2 in early 2003 then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_II:_The_Awakening

http://images.google.com/images?sou...FRC_enUS206US206&q=unreal+II&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi

IMHO Unreal 2 in early 2003 has much better graphics so WoW is somewhere between 1998 and 2003 in graphics. 2001 seems about right. BTW I'm not so much talking about shadow or flickering lights as I am poly count. The games toons without question look like crap because they have to keep the poly count low. Games like Unreal 1 and 2 only had to worry about then current video card/cpu tech and not the considerations of a MMORPG and having the potential for 100 players to be in close proximity to each other.

Now this was a design decision so that people with limited computers could still play the game even with a ton of PvP players in the area. WoW "could" have much better graphics but if you make the graphics too good then they lose millions of accounts who are playing on very old computers not in the US.

-JB
 
Turn on AA and AF and do a 25 man raid and tell me that a graphics card upgrade won't help.
 
jrb531 said:
Well maybe 2001 is a bit too early but Unreal came out in 1998

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal

http://images.google.com/images?q=u...F-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GFRC&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi

While you could say that WoW has better graphics than Unreal 1 it would not be by much.

How About Unreal2 in early 2003 then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_II:_The_Awakening

http://images.google.com/images?sou...FRC_enUS206US206&q=unreal+II&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi

IMHO Unreal 2 in early 2003 has much better graphics so WoW is somewhere between 1998 and 2003 in graphics. 2001 seems about right. BTW I'm not so much talking about shadow or flickering lights as I am poly count. The games toons without question look like crap because they have to keep the poly count low. Games like Unreal 1 and 2 only had to worry about then current video card/cpu tech and not the considerations of a MMORPG and having the potential for 100 players to be in close proximity to each other.

Now this was a design decision so that people with limited computers could still play the game even with a ton of PvP players in the area. WoW "could" have much better graphics but if you make the graphics too good then they lose millions of accounts who are playing on very old computers not in the US.

-JB
Click to expand...
Who cares what WoW looks like and if it looks worse then Unreal 2, the fact is 9800Pro need to be replaced if he want's better performance.
 
TomGreen321 said:
Who cares what WoW looks like and if it looks worse then Unreal 2, the fact is 9800Pro need to be replaced if he want's better performance.
Click to expand...

exactly. a 3.4 p4 is still an ok proc in terms of horsepower. His 9800pro is not.
 
Well, it seems like of the people here who have actually played wow, you'll notice how we all recommended upgrading the video card, but no one has suggested a CPU upgrade. If the OP is using that machine and getting those framerates, it is because his graphics card is the bottleneck.
 
I played WOW for a long time and I had a similar setup. I was running a 3.2 p4 northwood with 2gig cas 2 ram and a 6800GTuntiI my Mobo died and I decided to build a new machince. I had it running at 1600x1200 4xAA 8xAF and It ran like butter. One thing you might try is if you have been playing WoW for a long time simply deleting the game and reinstalling. It can sometimes clear up performance issues. I did it every 6 months or so when I was playing.

Get another gig of ram and a better video card. do some hunting around you could likely pick up a 7900GS pretty cheap.
 
etherealtml said:
Well, it seems like of the people here who have actually played wow, you'll notice how we all recommended upgrading the video card, but no one has suggested a CPU upgrade. If the OP is using that machine and getting those framerates, it is because his graphics card is the bottleneck.
Click to expand...

Ya ..umm I have played Wow since its release (since fileplanet beta test) and only stopped raiding after I cleared Gruuls/Karazhan. While his CPU is fine, in order to upgrade to a better card that wont run the new expansion like crap (which is will from what the interviews have said so far a large graphic upgrade is planned) a new cpu/mobo/video card is the smartest choice. Getting a 1950XT agp card is a sizeable upgrade (probably a 30 precent increase in speed) but its going to show its age alot sooner , more so if he raids. Personally ..If you upgrade one thing and you dont mind saving/spending so you dont have to sooner rather than later its best to get it out of the way.
 
Godmachine said:
While his CPU is fine, in order to upgrade to a better card that wont run the new expansion like crap (which is will from what the interviews have said so far a large graphic upgrade is planned) a new cpu/mobo/video card is the smartest choice.
Click to expand...

Yeah except that the new expansion hasn't been released so its pretty useless to speculate as to what the new system requirements will be. Suppose he does a complete system overhaul, and it is still not enough to run the new expansion? Then he would have to upgrade again, wasting even more money.

Even if we did know the system requirements of the new expansion, it doesn't mean he should buy a whole new system today. Lets suppose the new system requirement is a quad-core extreme cpu, 8800 GTX, and 8GB DDR3. Sure, he could buy it all today and fork over a small fortune. Yeah, it would totally rock WoW 2.1. However, it is completely unnecessary given that his P4+7600gt will run the same game just fine for a fraction of the cost.

Now say 1 or 2 years go by, and the new WoW expansion is finally released. Guess what though? Prices have changed. Quad-core extremes + 8800 GTX's (or their equivalents) are now dirt cheap because of technological advances. Now, assuming he waited to overhaul his system, he can take the money he saved and not only buy the new system, but maybe he has enough cash left over to buy the expansion, two years of game-time, with money to spare. All because he didn't spend a lot of money today for technology he MIGHT need in a couple of years.

Right now, to enjoy WoW every day up until the new expansion is released, all he needs is a new graphics card. Not a new CPU. Not a new motherboard. Not more RAM. Not a new O/S. Stop trying to make this more difficult than it really is. WoW is now almost a 3-year old game, it doesn't take a super-computer to run it.
 
ave0000 said:
Another possible bottleneck to look into with WoW is harddisk performance. Sometimes, a good defrag can do wonders, especially after they release one of those big patches. People around might tell you that defragmenting once in a while does nothing, I say they're full of crap.

If you follow the suggestion of other posts in building a completely new system, make sure to have a second drive (not necessarily big or especially fast) to install WoW onto. When I made this change, I found that entering instances was much faster, and the time between entering a big city and all of the people showing up decreased.
Click to expand...

QFT.

The big cause of stutters and pauses for me is when WoW has to pull new geometry, textures and models off the HDD as you move around the world, a fast, well maintained HDD makes a big difference with that.

Also, because it's throwing at lot more data across across the system more frequently than most games, overall subsystem performance is that much more important.

I'd try a simple defrag and update the mobo/chipset drivers before spending any money, you might be pleasantly surprised.

Incidentally, exactly the same thinking applies to Oblivion, GTA, and any other "Open World" type game that needs to stream data across the system as opposed to caching it all to RAM in one block at the start of each level.

If you win the lottery, also get a KIllerNIC, WoW is one of the few games that actually benefits, network hiccups can translate to on screen jerks* regardless of fps.

*The physical kind, not the barrens chat kind :p
 
etherealtml said:
Yeah except that the new expansion hasn't been released so its pretty useless to speculate as to what the new system requirements will be. Suppose he does a complete system overhaul, and it is still not enough to run the new expansion? Then he would have to upgrade again, wasting even more money.

Even if we did know the system requirements of the new expansion, it doesn't mean he should buy a whole new system today. Lets suppose the new system requirement is a quad-core extreme cpu, 8800 GTX, and 8GB DDR3. Sure, he could buy it all today and fork over a small fortune. Yeah, it would totally rock WoW 2.1. However, it is completely unnecessary given that his P4+7600gt will run the same game just fine for a fraction of the cost.

Now say 1 or 2 years go by, and the new WoW expansion is finally released. Guess what though? Prices have changed. Quad-core extremes + 8800 GTX's (or their equivalents) are now dirt cheap because of technological advances. Now, assuming he waited to overhaul his system, he can take the money he saved and not only buy the new system, but maybe he has enough cash left over to buy the expansion, two years of game-time, with money to spare. All because he didn't spend a lot of money today for technology he MIGHT need in a couple of years.

Right now, to enjoy WoW every day up until the new expansion is released, all he needs is a new graphics card. Not a new CPU. Not a new motherboard. Not more RAM. Not a new O/S. Stop trying to make this more difficult than it really is. WoW is now almost a 3-year old game, it doesn't take a super-computer to run it.
Click to expand...

First off you need to chill out, secondly I'm offering him what I believe is a better road to travel if he is willing to save and hold on to what he has for alittle while longer he can upgrade a few more things that will provide him a faster and better system for WoW , as having a fast system for it can make a big difference in raiding and pvp. If you dont agree with me thats fine, but to tell him to upgrade to a soon to be dead slot design video card so the next time he upgrades wll be alot sooner rather than later just makes you look foolish not to even consider a larger upgrade a worthwhile venture. Ya he could play the waiting game forever but thats not what I'm trying to send as a message, considering there is a alot of new 45nm CPU's coming out in the very near future it would be smart of him to use that time to save and then when they do come out he can likely get a very acceptable system for little money.


As I said its just a view point, if you dont like it then dont read it.
 
Just to let everyone know what I got.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102093&Tpk=x1950GT%2bagp
I have used Sapphire in the past with good luck, and I figured the GT would be more than enough for WoW.

with the 9800XT I was getting 20 or less FPS at 1024x768.

with the 1950GT its 58-60 FPS at 1600x1200

worth the $$ to me.

As far as NEWEGG goes i'm PISSED. When I placed the order they had a $20 MIR. They took it down and didnt include it. If they were not closed right now I would be giving them a ear full. I'm holding off leaving feedback on their site till after I get to bitch at someone tommrow. :)

it idles at 44C and 55-56C while in the game. (I probably should have gotten a cooler)
 
How about this.

It is about the same price as a 7600GT. If I still had AGP and wanted a lower cost video card with a high performance, I would get this hands down.

But the 7600GT is an excellent choice as well. Kudos.
 
Red Falcon said:
How about this.

It is about the same price as a 7600GT. If I still had AGP and wanted a lower cost video card with a high performance, I would get this hands down.

But the 7600GT is an excellent choice as well. Kudos.
Click to expand...



Thanks for reading the thread and seeing that he already bought a card... kudos.
 
I see you already took care of your problem, but I will share my experience with wow and my upgrades so other people can learn too.

I currently have a 3500+ and a 7900GT. Generally, WoW does pretty good, in about half the area's of the game I will get 60fps, when it gets crowded (towns, raids), it can drop to the 20s.

I bought an 8800GT 320 and my scores stayed pretty much the same. I could play a lot more games in higher quality settings, but as far as WoW went, it really made no difference.

So, I build a system for my dad, a core 2 duo E6750 I think is what it was, 2.66GHz. I had given him my old 7900GT. Low and behold, his FPS is pegged at 60FPS. The only time I could get it to drop was when we were in shat facing the center of the city, then it would drop to 40 to 50 FPS.

I traded him back video cards since with a 3500+ in really made no difference if I had a 7900GT or an 8800GTX, but I imagine now his FPS is pegged at 60 no matter what.

This friday I am getting a Q6600, which I am planning to overclock to 3GHz. I mainly play WoW, so I am going to be one happy camper, especially since lately I have been playing two accounts at the same time, controlling one with my voice. Now im wishing I had kept my 8800GT since I will have the CPU to push it.

One thing that does make a huge difference with WoW is the amount of ram you have. If you have less then 1GB then you can get really bad choppiness when you move/look around. Going to 2GB takes care of that problem.
 
lloose said:
Thanks for reading the thread and seeing that he already bought a card... kudos.
Click to expand...

Meh. It was late and I was only trying to help.

Perhaps my post will have helped someone else.

It always pays to think positive. :)


EDIT: Oh, and your welcome.
 
MrValentine said:
Just to let everyone know what I got.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102093&Tpk=x1950GT%2bagp
I have used Sapphire in the past with good luck, and I figured the GT would be more than enough for WoW.

with the 9800XT I was getting 20 or less FPS at 1024x768.

with the 1950GT its 58-60 FPS at 1600x1200

worth the $$ to me.

As far as NEWEGG goes i'm PISSED. When I placed the order they had a $20 MIR. They took it down and didnt include it. If they were not closed right now I would be giving them a ear full. I'm holding off leaving feedback on their site till after I get to bitch at someone tommrow. :)

it idles at 44C and 55-56C while in the game. (I probably should have gotten a cooler)
Click to expand...

Glad you picked up the GT and that it's working out for you and sorry NewEgg screwed you. I bet they'll honor the rebate if you call them. They're usually very good about that sort of thing.

As far as your temps go, don't worry about them. You're far from overheating and your temps are very good under load. I had three different Pro cards and your GT is in the same ballpark. How's your card for overclocking? Does it live up to the NewEgg reviews?
 
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