Bioshock changes.....2K listens!!!

mrmetal_53 said:
You guys don't understand. As it is now, you are_not_limited to how many times you can install Bioshock on your computer, as long as you uninstall it before. IE, say you go to reformat. As long as you uninstall Bioshock before you reformat, you can reinstall Bioshock without any problems. Ad nauseam. Forever. As many times as you want. What you were limited to was having it installed on two computers at the same time. With only one CD key. What other games can you do that with? With the recent change, you can now have it on up to five PCs at the same time! I don't understand what there is to complain about :rolleyes:
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what retarded person UN install programs before the reformat? i bet you dont
 
mrmetal_53 said:
You guys don't understand. As it is now, you are_not_limited to how many times you can install Bioshock on your computer, as long as you uninstall it before. IE, say you go to reformat. As long as you uninstall Bioshock before you reformat, you can reinstall Bioshock without any problems. Ad nauseam. Forever. As many times as you want. What you were limited to was having it installed on two computers at the same time. With only one CD key. What other games can you do that with? With the recent change, you can now have it on up to five PCs at the same time! I don't understand what there is to complain about :rolleyes:
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Somebody with some sense, thank you. This constant sniveling is sad. The people doing all the complaining are more than likely the same people who weren't originally going to purchase this game -- they either jump the band wagon, or in this case of a few issues, jump ship.
 
It's still an inconvenient, intrusive and totally unnecessary method, no matter how you look at it.

To give just one of a hundred already-stated examples: I just reformatted one of my drives tonight, and two more to reformat tomorrow, between my gaming rig and the one I built for my wife.

I sure as hell wouldn't have to worry about remembering what games need to be uninstalled first before reformatting, because I might lose the "privilege" of playing a game I paid $50 for and own. Once you own something, it's a right to use at your whim and discretion, not a "privilege", but that's almost how the attitude behind this method seems to be treating people.

"Well, you bought it, so we'll 'let' you play install a certain amount of times. If you want to install any more than what we're 'letting' you initially install, for something you now own, you have to jump through the hoops." What kind of shit is that?

Nor would I want to have to worry about online activation every time I have to reinstall a game especially, as an earlier post stated, for a single-player game. Even worse, because look at what happened when their servers went down and people couldn't activate their copies at all.

Even for multi-player, this type of activation method isn't necessary. That's what CD keys are for: they're detected by online servers which can prevent anyone from using the same CD key. It's an easy an effective method that didn't require going to these extremes of activation.

Again, I don't own the game, but the whole concept of this for me, being a hardcore PC gamer is just absurd. Since many others who don't own the game are expressing the same views, I'd hardly say anyone is jumping on any "bandwagon" here. It's just a ludicrous situation.
 
You can install it 5 times before you have to call them, unless you uninstall it first. Ok, so uninstall it when you format. Takes a good 2 minutes or so maybe?

Who, if not a software pirate, would want it to be installed on more than 5 computers in first place i ask? Why would this affect people that bought the game legally? I format and reinstall quite often (every 2-3 months or so). That'd give me a good year before i had to activate and that only if i wouldn't uninstall my copy first (which then would make it indefinately). Even if you dual or triple boot, it wouldn't be a problem.

Bunch of pirate kiddies i say. Nobody in their right mind needs 5 copies installed at once.

I can't stand this constant "stupid drm only makes me pirate it" or "this cd check is bullshit" or "serial numbers are just st00pid" or "if <enter company name> releases this game with <enter copy protection> i will NEVER buy from them again and pirate it" cheap ass kiddie pirate excuse for pirating games anymore. It's getting old. If you don't want to buy a game for whatever reason, then don't buy it and don't whine about it and threaten to pirate the game. Doesn't make you cool.
 
ScYcS said:
You can install it 5 times before you have to call them, unless you uninstall it first. Ok, so uninstall it when you format. Takes a good 2 minutes or so maybe?

Who, if not a software pirate, would want it to be installed on more than 5 computers in first place i ask? Why would this affect people that bought the game legally? I format and reinstall quite often (every 2-3 months or so). That'd give me a good year before i had to activate and that only if i wouldn't uninstall my copy first (which then would make it indefinately). Even if you dual or triple boot, it wouldn't be a problem.

Bunch of pirate kiddies i say. Nobody in their right mind needs 5 copies installed at once.
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LIKE I SAID. who in their right minds UNINSTALLS programs and games before they reformat?
 
jonneymendoza said:
LIKE I SAID. who in their right minds UNINSTALLS programs and games before they reformat?
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LIKE I SAID: it takes maybe 2 minutes. Appearantly I WILL uninstall Bioshock before my next format. Whoopdiedooda. What a chore it will be. Cry some more about 2 minutes of your precious time.
 
ScYcS said:
LIKE I SAID: it takes maybe 2 minutes. Appearantly I WILL uninstall Bioshock before my next format. Whoopdiedooda. What a chore it will be. Cry some more about 2 minutes of your precious time.
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well if you and others are satisfied with this bullshit then it wont be long till ann the programs and games do the same method. now how would you like that if u HAD to un install all your programs and games?

:D then your fucked mate, that 2mins will be more like 2 hours just to un install your stuff LOL good luck
 
Thanks mate, but i don't need luck. Even if it's 5 games i have to uninstall before reformatting (and mind you, i could just format without uninstall and STILL activate it 5 times), then i lost a whole 10 minutes of my time. Still whoopdie. Bunch of crybabies.
 
How simple this "feature" may be to deal with is irrelevant. While people who paid for the game have to deal with these arbitrary limitations, people who pirate it will not (and yes it will be pirated). As I've said before, there is zero gain for any publisher or developer to use copy protection. "Casual piracy" is a non-issue at this point, considering how easy Bittorrent makes piracy.

There is no reason whatsoever for any kind of copy protection to be used, period. It makes no difference except to inconvenience legitimate users.
 
You people bitching about this are a bunch of assholes. Why is it such a big deal that a company is taking extra precautionary measures to protect the IP they worked so hard on?

Activation isn't a big deal unless you are deliberately trying to install it on a bunch of machines. The " I wanted to show a friend" , etc is bullshit as well, they do have a demo you know. Unless you are retarded or know nothing about computers at all, you damn well know how activation in general works. It's happened with XP, Vista and most new releases under the "Games For Windows" platform. Why is it such a shock that the same activation methods we have become accustomed to also hold true here?

The latest SecuROM protection in my opinion is a non issue. I know I can't speak for everyone else, but I have yet to encounter any performance / stability issues on the numerous machines I have installed, and played BioShock on. I personally have not heard , nor read about anything like this happening as well.

As far as 2K addressing the situation as they have, you should consider yourself thankful.

Rehevkor said:
There is no reason whatsoever for any kind of copy protection to be used, period. It makes no difference except to inconvenience legitimate users.
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With no copy protection it would be a huge "convenience" to the pirate scene, and the games piracy ratio would be astronomical. If you don't realize this, you should be eliminated from the gene pool.
 
Well the part that is a bit silly is that if you buy the game/game disk then they should just use the disk for copy protection and not require this 'on line' activiation or root kit that cannot be easily uninstalled.

I think that the priacy has a lot to do with the measures some companies are taking but ultimately i'm not sure (todate) that the measures are effective. I'd like to see some real $$$ how much these measures cost vs benefits.
 
sgi02 said:
You people bitching about this are a bunch of assholes. Why is it such a big deal that a company is taking extra precautionary measures to protect the IP they worked so hard on?

Activation isn't a big deal unless you are deliberately trying to install it on a bunch of machines. The " I wanted to show a friend" , etc is bullshit as well, they do have a demo you know. Unless you are retarded or know nothing about computers at all, you damn well know how activation in general works. It's happened with XP, Vista and most new releases under the "Games For Windows" platform. Why is it such a shock that the same activation methods we have become accustomed to also hold true here?

The latest SecuROM protection in my opinion is a non issue. I know I can't speak for everyone else, but I have yet to encounter any performance / stability issues on the numerous machines I have installed, and played BioShock on. I personally have not heard , nor read about anything like this happening as well.

As far as 2K addressing the situation as they have, you should consider yourself thankful.



With no copy protection it would be a huge "convenience" to the pirate scene, and the games piracy ratio would be astronomical. If you don't realize this, you should be eliminated from the gene pool.
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Give me one example of a non-MMO game with copy protection that wasn't widely pirated anyway (except, of course, for games that suck so much no one wants them).

There aren't any.
 
It prevents the stupid kiddies from sharing the disk with their equally stupid friends for once. We all remember the times back in the late 80ies, early nineties when on every campus and highschool parking lot floppy disks were exchanged because, hey, you could just copy them, right?
 
Wow, the sheep are rampant in this thread! I don't see how any "Power User" wouldn't be appalled at the Malware Bioshock loads on your PC. It's too bad I bought Bioshock through STEAM, or I'd be ebaying it right now.

The bottom line is, DRM and Rootkits like this do nothing but annoy consumers like us who actually spend their hard earned dollars on the game. No matter what, it WILL be cracked and pirates WILL pirate it. On the off chance something doesn't get cracked, they'll just move onto something else they can have for free rather then buy it. It's pretty sad that us legit users are starting to have more malware to worry about then someone using a crack or keygen.
 
It is 2k's business and they can do what they want to do, but this is a mistake, in my opinion.

If you buy a book, only one person can read it at a time. If you buy a game, why should you be entitled to run it on 5 PCs simultaneously?

PC gaming is dead and things like this killed it.

PC gaming will never recover until there is effective DRM. As nice as it is to get something for nothing, it is better to have to pay if you get to play a great game.

People who think that this is a "victory" are really mistaken. The execs at 2k just had their view confirmed that PC gaming is more trouble than its worth.
 
sgt said:
Wow, the sheep are rampant in this thread! I don't see how any "Power User" wouldn't be appalled at the Malware Bioshock loads on your PC. It's too bad I bought Bioshock through STEAM, or I'd be ebaying it right now.

The bottom line is, DRM and Rootkits like this do nothing but annoy consumers like us who actually spend their hard earned dollars on the game. No matter what, it WILL be cracked and pirates WILL pirate it. On the off chance something doesn't get cracked, they'll just move onto something else they can have for free rather then buy it. It's pretty sad that us legit users are starting to have more malware to worry about then someone using a crack or keygen.
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What has the "malware" and the "rootkit" and the copy protection scheme done to you so far? Is your computer slower? Did it send personal data to someone? Did it prevent you from playing the game? Did it prevent you from using your computer in any way you used to before? Did it shoot your granny? Didn't think so. Little overzealous and paranoid, are we?
 
sgi02 said:
You people bitching about this are a bunch of assholes. Why is it such a big deal that a company is taking extra precautionary measures to protect the IP they worked so hard on?

Activation isn't a big deal unless you are deliberately trying to install it on a bunch of machines. The " I wanted to show a friend" , etc is bullshit as well, they do have a demo you know. Unless you are retarded or know nothing about computers at all, you damn well know how activation in general works. It's happened with XP, Vista and most new releases under the "Games For Windows" platform. Why is it such a shock that the same activation methods we have become accustomed to also hold true here?

The latest SecuROM protection in my opinion is a non issue. I know I can't speak for everyone else, but I have yet to encounter any performance / stability issues on the numerous machines I have installed, and played BioShock on. I personally have not heard , nor read about anything like this happening as well.

As far as 2K addressing the situation as they have, you should consider yourself thankful.



With no copy protection it would be a huge "convenience" to the pirate scene, and the games piracy ratio would be astronomical. If you don't realize this, you should be eliminated from the gene pool.
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protect what? even with all this proection shit it only delays the hacker for a day or two LOL
 
ScYcS said:
What has the "malware" and the "rootkit" and the copy protection scheme done to you so far? Is your computer slower? Did it send personal data to someone? Did it prevent you from playing the game? Did it prevent you from using your computer in any way you used to before? Did it shoot your granny? Didn't think so. Little overzealous and paranoid, are we?
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Well, I'm glad you don't give a shit about a company installing software on your computer behind your back. Specifically, one that prevents other legitimate software from running. Hopefully you don't work in IT Security. I'll agree that it has not caused me any direct problems. But it's there, and I don't want it to be. It's also worth noting that when I uninstalled Bioshock, it did NOT uninstall Securom. Enjoy that Kool Aid.
 
sgt said:
Well, I'm glad you don't give a shit about a company installing software on your computer behind your back. Specifically, one that prevents other legitimate software from running. Hopefully you don't work in IT Security. I'll agree that it has not caused me any direct problems. But it's there, and I don't want it to be. It's also worth noting that when I uninstalled Bioshock, it did NOT uninstall Securom. Enjoy that Kool Aid.
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You are wrong and you know it. When you install software, including Bioshock, on your PC, you agree to the terms of the license. One of the things that you agree to is to have the DRM software installed.

It is easy. If you don't accept DRM, don't install the software. If you want the software, accept the DRM.
 
lawguy said:
You are wrong and you know it. When you install software, including Bioshock, on your PC, you agree to the terms of the license. One of the things that you agree to is to have the DRM software installed.

It is easy. If you don't accept DRM, don't install the software. If you want the software, accept the DRM.
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So does it say in the agreement that this DRM software will NOT be removed when I remove the game? Please paste this for me so I can see it. Thanks!
 
linkage to the current drm infection that bioshock employs

CNN doing a story on Bioshock DRM problems
http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6908

How to removed the rootkit
http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6948

proof of the kit and problems with the demo
http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5277&page=29

link to root kit revealer ms needs to make a remover though...
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/Utilities/RootkitRevealer.mspx

this is a shame that stuff like this is allowed cause of this many people i know that pained for the game are furious uninstalled the game and want their money back... as for me i was going to buy this game and now i am not THE RAPTURE INDEED GG 2k...
 
sgt said:
Well, I'm glad you don't give a shit about a company installing software on your computer behind your back.
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I don't as long as it doesn't cause any problems.

sgt said:
Specifically, one that prevents other legitimate software from running.
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Which one for example?


sgt said:
Hopefully you don't work in IT Security.
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I do.

sgt said:
I'll agree that it has not caused me any direct problems.
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There you go.

sgt said:
Enjoy that Kool Aid.
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I prefer a nice beer.
 
The DRM seems to be more of a Take-Two Interactive decision than 2K. You can't really blame them for TRYING to prevent piracy.
 
sgt said:
So does it say in the agreement that this DRM software will NOT be removed when I remove the game? Please paste this for me so I can see it. Thanks!
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Show me where I can find the license agreement and I'll show you where the user consents to it.
 
Jeez man, you don't know me or my company and judge my IT abilities based on THIS? lfmao....
 
I can't wait when future developers see the result of the "Bioshock Riots" and decide that all of this hassle isn't worth the 15% of sales they gain from the PC version, and just decide to go the console route.

Then we'll inevitably see threads a year from now that say "Wtf, why isn't 2K games bringing Bioshock 2 to the PC? That's so fucking gay, I hate them!" and they'll legitimately wonder why 2K doesn't feel like bringing out their stuff on the PC anymore, and wonder why other developers are following suit.

I wouldn't be surprised if 2K is re-evaluting it's stance on the PC because all of this hassle probably isn't worth it when the 360 has done triple the sales, easily, with none of the complaining.
 
Roufuss said:
I can't wait when future developers see the result of the "Bioshock Riots" and decide that all of this hassle isn't worth the 15% of sales they gain from the PC version, and just decide to go the console route.

Then we'll inevitably see threads a year from now that say "Wtf, why isn't 2K games bringing Bioshock 2 to the PC? That's so fucking gay, I hate them!" and they'll legitimately wonder why 2K doesn't feel like bringing out their stuff on the PC anymore, and wonder why other developers are following suit.

I wouldn't be surprised if 2K is re-evaluting it's stance on the PC because all of this hassle probably isn't worth it when the 360 has done triple the sales, easily, with none of the complaining.
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..... yep.

I prefer PC, but honestly, I just go where the games are. I have no problem switching entirely to consoles if that's where the developers are going to get thier support and income, and they can keep making me games to play.
 
PoweredBySoy said:
..... yep.

I prefer PC, but honestly, I just go where the games are. I have no problem switching entirely to consoles if that's where the developers are going to get thier support and income, and they can keep making me games to play.
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yea but console hardware are very limit and in some cases ureliable (360)

go and read the thread on crysis and there the ceo guy that says that console hardware is already outdated and cant run crysis.
 
jonneymendoza said:
yea but console hardware are very limit and in some cases ureliable (360)

go and read the thread on crysis and there the ceo guy that says that console hardware is already outdated and cant run crysis.
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True in some cases, but every PC game has many, many more issues because there are so many combinations of PC hardware.

I also didn't want to buy a console. The 360 was my first one since the Atari 5200. But, there were no good PC games to play and I had to buy a new $300 graphics card every year.

The graphics and gameplay on the 360 are exceptional, in my opinion. I really don't miss PC gaming and Bioshock confirms it for me.

Crysis may be the second coming, but do you thibnk that Crysis will have no DRM? They have to if they want to make any money because they will be getting $0 in console revenue.

People here are so short sighted when it comes to DRM.
 
jonneymendoza said:
yea but console hardware are very limit and in some cases ureliable (360)

go and read the thread on crysis and there the ceo guy that says that console hardware is already outdated and cant run crysis.
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As Mark Rein said and you can see with the market already, don't expect PCs to be pushing graphics like they did in the past. I don't really see many games with Crysis graphics really.

I think it's sad for the PC market which hasn't grown meaning it has more potential to shrink. This is where I think people confusing "PC gaming is dying" Not dying. Not growing though. I was willing to think that digital distrubtion would be the new "savior", when another AAA title like Bioshock has such a negative whiplash for silly things, I can't see how developers can possibly stay motivated. But whatever. Like PoweredBySoy said "I just go where the games are at"

I really feel like the PC community let me down this time, and I don't even have ties to the game.
 
jonneymendoza said:
yea but console hardware are very limit and in some cases ureliable (360)

go and read the thread on crysis and there the ceo guy that says that console hardware is already outdated and cant run crysis.
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Oh believe me, I know. My 360 just died the other day! =( But seriously, it would be a hard arguement trying to say PC's are more reliable than consoles. Quite honestly, they both have their problems.

As for the "power", somewhat true. Especially as the consoles age. But since when does that mean less entertaining games? I'm still playing some older PS2 games I had missed, and I'm loving them. And shit, look at the Wii taking off.

Crysis? All one has to do is remember that these are the same guys that made Farcry - one of the most overrated games in history. Beautiful, yes. Gameplay? Meh....

But having a developer of a next gen PC title saying it could never play on a console isn't really an argument that consoles are inferior. Because the more and more developers that jump ship and head for console-land, the less PC hardware will even matter. Seriously, this generation we're seeing Unreal Tournament and Civilization on consoles!! If you had told me that 2 years ago I would have said you're cracked.
 
krameriffic said:
How about they fix the evil faggoty fucking mouse acceleration?
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Wtf are you talking about? I've seen a few posts about this. I don't have any problem with my mouse at all. Logitech G7 corded. I left it at the default and smooth as butter.

What mouse do you have?
Are the drivers up to date?
Does it need any software?
What is the mouse senstivity in the settings?
Could you describe the problem a little more?

Again, the only thing I noticed in the mouse is RIGHT after the game loads for the first time, 2 seconds later it's fine.
 
Netrat33 said:
This is where I think people confusing "PC gaming is dying" Not dying. Not growing though.
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I have been playing PC games for over 20 years. Take my word for it, PC gaming is not what it used to be.

It has shrunk. Whether it hit rock bottom or will continue to fade away is another matter.

Games are now typically not released on the PC, and if they are, it is rarely released day and date with the console version. This would never have happened even a few years ago.

The titans of the PC game developers, companies like Valve and ID, and now focusing on consoles.

This did not have to be the case. Piracy caused it.
 
Roufuss said:
I can't wait when future developers see the result of the "Bioshock Riots" and decide that all of this hassle isn't worth the 15% of sales they gain from the PC version, and just decide to go the console route.

Then we'll inevitably see threads a year from now that say "Wtf, why isn't 2K games bringing Bioshock 2 to the PC? That's so fucking gay, I hate them!" and they'll legitimately wonder why 2K doesn't feel like bringing out their stuff on the PC anymore, and wonder why other developers are following suit.

I wouldn't be surprised if 2K is re-evaluting it's stance on the PC because all of this hassle probably isn't worth it when the 360 has done triple the sales, easily, with none of the complaining.
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Even if it's only a third of what the 360 version sells, I can't imagine 2K, or any company for that matter, wanting to ignore that potential revenue altogether. There's not as much money to be made, but it's still a significant chunk of cash nonetheless and IIRC, it's going to be pretty easy for devs to bring a 360 game to the PC with DX10.
 
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