Radiator(s) to cool a quad core and SLI 8800 ultra

J

jchahn

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 20, 2004
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I'm thinking of getting a MountainMods Twice7 case. I've spoken to MM and I can fit a Swiftech - MCR-220 QP in the front and a Swiftech - MCR-120 QP in the back (possibly a ThermoChill PA 160 in the back).

Would the combination of a dual 120mm Swiftech and a separate single 120mm Swiftech be enough to cool a Q6600 and 2 8800 ultras? (Possibly even the northbridge and southbridge?) I need something with a slim profile in the front, that's why they recommend the Swiftech 220 instead of a ThermoChill.

Thanks in advance for the help,
John
 
I've been out of the loop on watercooling for a while.

When you say just fine, do you mean it will cool it to air temperatures, or do you mean it will do a good enough job that I should be able to overclock?
 
jchahn said:
I've been out of the loop on watercooling for a while.

When you say just fine, do you mean it will cool it to air temperatures, or do you mean it will do a good enough job that I should be able to overclock?
Click to expand...

You've got yourself about 450W worth of heat dissipation to work with. You'll be able to handle the temps fine as long as you're not pushing any ridiculous overclocks on your quad (3.3+).
 
Ranker said:
You've got yourself about 450W worth of heat dissipation to work with. You'll be able to handle the temps fine as long as you're not pushing any ridiculous overclocks on your quad (3.3+).
Click to expand...

+1

but it goes past 450W if you're willing to live with a >10C coolant-air differential
 
With that kind of a radiator setup, I'd expect CPU temps in the high 50s low 60s... Possibly even a tad bit higher.

That's one hell of a heat load! 400w at stock!

Get the PA160 if you can...
 
jchahn said:
I'm thinking of getting a MountainMods Twice7 case. I've spoken to MM and I can fit a Swiftech - MCR-220 QP in the front and a Swiftech - MCR-120 QP in the back (possibly a ThermoChill PA 160 in the back).

Would the combination of a dual 120mm Swiftech and a separate single 120mm Swiftech be enough to cool a Q6600 and 2 8800 ultras? (Possibly even the northbridge and southbridge?) I need something with a slim profile in the front, that's why they recommend the Swiftech 220 instead of a ThermoChill.

Thanks in advance for the help,
John
Click to expand...

John,
From reading your other posts, it seems to me that you will try to push your Q6600 and Ultras. I don't think the MCR-220 and a MCR-120 are gonna be enough. The two ultras will be about 400watts and the Q6600, assuming you are gonna oc that to 3.6ghz, will be another 200+ watts. When loaded, you gonna see over 600watts of heat.
I have a MCR-320+MCR-220 just for the Q6600 (I know, overkill, but planning for the SB/NB and MOSFETs later) and another MCR-320 for my GTXs loop. Yes, it's amazing that they all fits inside my ghetto modded case.:D
 
well from personal experience.... a single pa120.2 hasnt been impressive with a q6600 at stock with a single gtx. My cpu at stock under load hits 50c and thats with a fuzion, lapped cpu and 4 low cfm yates in a push pull on the rad. What i do love is my gtx does get down to 40c at idle and never seen it higher than 47c overclocked at load and the setup is pretty quiet.
 
Well, perhaps I should spend the extra money and get a Mountain Mods U2 then... It would save me the hassle of trying to figure out how to cram stuff into the Twice7.
 
Waterboy said:
John,
From reading your other posts, it seems to me that you will try to push your Q6600 and Ultras. I don't think the MCR-220 and a MCR-120 are gonna be enough. The two ultras will be about 400watts and the Q6600, assuming you are gonna oc that to 3.6ghz, will be another 200+ watts. When loaded, you gonna see over 600watts of heat.
I have a MCR-320+MCR-220 just for the Q6600 (I know, overkill, but planning for the SB/NB and MOSFETs later) and another MCR-320 for my GTXs loop. Yes, it's amazing that they all fits inside my ghetto modded case.:D
Click to expand...

GTX's put out 127w at the core with an additional 20-25W from the ram chips and vregs if you're using a full cover. The 200W is a gross over estimate. Most people aren't going to break 3.2GHZ on their OC for a quad. Few chips are even capable of 3.6Ghz stable.

I'm a person who likes to be extremely excessive in my hardware purchases. However, there's no need for 2x radiators for his setup when a PA120.3 can handle all of that. It'll be sitting close to the max of what the radiator can handle (depending on how much he OC's his quad), but it should be relatively fine. The only increase in temps on his CPU will be a result of the Ultra's dumping heat into the water. He's better of with dual loops if rock bottom temps are his goal.
 
Ranker said:
GTX's put out 127w at the core with an additional 20-25W from the ram chips and vregs if you're using a full cover. The 200W is a gross over estimate. Most people aren't going to break 3.2GHZ on their OC for a quad. Few chips are even capable of 3.6Ghz stable.

I'm a person who likes to be extremely excessive in my hardware purchases. However, there's no need for 2x radiators for his setup when a PA120.3 can handle all of that. It'll be sitting close to the max of what the radiator can handle (depending on how much he OC's his quad), but it should be relatively fine. The only increase in temps on his CPU will be a result of the Ultra's dumping heat into the water. He's better of with dual loops if rock bottom temps are his goal.
Click to expand...

If we are still talking hypothetically about me getting a Twice7, then the PA120.3 is out. It won't fit in that case. I was talking about getting a Swiftech MCR-220 and possibly an extra MCR-120 or maybe a PA160. The case has 3 fans, but they aren't together.
 
Ranker said:
GTX's put out 127w at the core with an additional 20-25W from the ram chips and vregs if you're using a full cover. The 200W is a gross over estimate. Most people aren't going to break 3.2GHZ on their OC for a quad. Few chips are even capable of 3.6Ghz stable.

I'm a person who likes to be extremely excessive in my hardware purchases. However, there's no need for 2x radiators for his setup when a PA120.3 can handle all of that. It'll be sitting close to the max of what the radiator can handle (depending on how much he OC's his quad), but it should be relatively fine. The only increase in temps on his CPU will be a result of the Ultra's dumping heat into the water. He's better of with dual loops if rock bottom temps are his goal.
Click to expand...

I am going by these power consumptions charts put up at Anandtech. As you can see the idle is already ~ 180 watts and loaded is ~ 280 watts. These are not even the Ultra version. Am reading these charts wrong?
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2873&p=7
 
Waterboy said:
I am going by these power consumptions charts put up at Anandtech. As you can see the idle is already ~ 180 watts and loaded is ~ 280 watts. These are not even the Ultra version. Am reading these charts wrong?
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2873&p=7
Click to expand...

As far as I can see that chart shows the power consumption for the entire system - Vid card, MB, CPU, the whole deal.
I read in a forum that an Ultra puts out somewhere around 140-150 watt, but with a quad in the loop that's still ~400 watt you have to get rid of.
Assuming Ranker is correct about the 450W estimate it should work just fine, but you don't have a whole lot to play with if you're going to OC :p
 
Waterboy said:
I am going by these power consumptions charts put up at Anandtech. As you can see the idle is already ~ 180 watts and loaded is ~ 280 watts. These are not even the Ultra version. Am reading these charts wrong?
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2873&p=7
Click to expand...

Swiftech took the time to measure a whole range of heat loads, including the 8800GTX and quads. Most people had assumed that GTX's were dumping 200W of heat and that quads were only capable of putting out 150W. Swiftech measure and found the max of the GTX was overestimated and that the max heat dump for the quads were under estimated.

To the OP, you can get away with a MCR220QP and a MCR120QP in series if you use medium CFM to high CFM fans. That should total 450W of heat dissipation capability. But as mentioned earlier, how much you OC depends on how comfortable you are with slightly higher temps. You're better off temp/OC wise with two separate loops, but it can be done within one loop.
 
you will not be happy with anything less than a pa120.3 or better... Id bet the 2 ultras alone in real world apps would use up the .3 then you need to cool the cpu also.
 
Thanks for the input everyone. If my main concern is OCing the CPU, I could get a MCR220QP and just WC the CPU and leave the GPUs stock, right? The MCR220QP (or PA 160) should be enough to cool just the CPU and get a decent OC, right?
 
jchahn said:
Thanks for the input everyone. If my main concern is OCing the CPU, I could get a MCR220QP and just WC the CPU and leave the GPUs stock, right? The MCR220QP (or PA 160) should be enough to cool just the CPU and get a decent OC, right?
Click to expand...

You could. But you will "not" be able to overclock your GPU's as well and they are an important part of your system. Seems like a waste to install a watercooling systems and not use it for the GPU's.

I've got a PA120.2 and I need to compromise my overclock (but not for long as I'm rebuilding my system). If you're building from scratch, you should ensure you've got plenty of extra cooling capacity.

If I were you I'd get a different case. If you like the MountainMod cases, get the Horizon or similar. That will let you fit a PA120.3 and a PA120.2 which would work well with your setup.
 
Ranker said:
Swiftech took the time to measure a whole range of heat loads, including the 8800GTX and quads. Most people had assumed that GTX's were dumping 200W of heat and that quads were only capable of putting out 150W. Swiftech measure and found the max of the GTX was overestimated and that the max heat dump for the quads were under estimated.

To the OP, you can get away with a MCR220QP and a MCR120QP in series if you use medium CFM to high CFM fans. That should total 450W of heat dissipation capability. But as mentioned earlier, how much you OC depends on how comfortable you are with slightly higher temps. You're better off temp/OC wise with two separate loops, but it can be done within one loop.
Click to expand...

Yes, a fully loaded 8800GTX core will dump about 175w as a maximum... Overclocked.

A Quad core at 3.6 (1.45v) will dump about 180w too... That's like, 500w of heat... Way outside the PA120.3's capability... If you wan't the 10c air to coolant delta.
 
So what do most people do in that situation? Use a PA 120.3 for the graphics cards and then run a separate loop with a PA 120.2 for the CPU and NB/SB?

The only watercooling system I've ever installed is a Zalman reserator on my current system. The reserator is alot simpler because you don't have to worry about a separate radiator, pump, and resevoir. So I'm trying to study up and figure out exactly what components would be the best for my system if I want to OC.

Once I figure out what rad(s) I want, then I've got to decide on the pump(s) res(s), and fans.


Just to give me an idea of what stuff I should look into:

If you had the CPU and GPUs I have, what would your complete WC system be for OCing?
 
jchahn said:
So what do most people do in that situation? Use a PA 120.3 for the graphics cards and then run a separate loop with a PA 120.2 for the CPU and NB/SB?

The only watercooling system I've ever installed is a Zalman reserator on my current system. The reserator is alot simpler because you don't have to worry about a separate radiator, pump, and resevoir. So I'm trying to study up and figure out exactly what components would be the best for my system if I want to OC.

Once I figure out what rad(s) I want, then I've got to decide on the pump(s) res(s), and fans.


Just to give me an idea of what stuff I should look into:

If you had the CPU and GPUs I have, what would your complete WC system be for OCing?
Click to expand...

I was running 3 loops, but condensed to two. My CPU stays on my PA120.2. My 8800GTX's, 4 HD's, NB/SB are on the PA120.3
 
A PA120.3 would be just fine with med-high cfm fans and a low average ambiant.

But if you are in warmer climates and want to hit 3.6Ghz, you could go with a couple PA120.2 s with 47 cfm fans.
 
Arcygenical said:
Yes, a fully loaded 8800GTX core will dump about 175w as a maximum... Overclocked.

A Quad core at 3.6 (1.45v) will dump about 180w too... That's like, 500w of heat... Way outside the PA120.3's capability... If you wan't the 10c air to coolant delta.
Click to expand...

So my initial guestimate was not far off. I forgot what kind of wattage the Ultra uses. Maybe it uses the same wattage...
 
Waterboy said:
So my initial guestimate was not far off. I forgot what kind of wattage the Ultra uses. Maybe it uses the same wattage...
Click to expand...

The ultra uses 2w less than the GTX... but the Ultra is stock clocked much higher than the GTX, making it's total power usage slightly less (less room for overclocking).
 
jchahn said:
So what do most people do in that situation? Use a PA 120.3 for the graphics cards and then run a separate loop with a PA 120.2 for the CPU and NB/SB?

The only watercooling system I've ever installed is a Zalman reserator on my current system. The reserator is alot simpler because you don't have to worry about a separate radiator, pump, and resevoir. So I'm trying to study up and figure out exactly what components would be the best for my system if I want to OC.

Once I figure out what rad(s) I want, then I've got to decide on the pump(s) res(s), and fans.


Just to give me an idea of what stuff I should look into:

If you had the CPU and GPUs I have, what would your complete WC system be for OCing?
Click to expand...



Seriously, a PA120.3 and any 120mm radiator would do it very well.
 
jchahn said:
So what do most people do in that situation? Use a PA 120.3 for the graphics cards and then run a separate loop with a PA 120.2 for the CPU and NB/SB?

The only watercooling system I've ever installed is a Zalman reserator on my current system. The reserator is alot simpler because you don't have to worry about a separate radiator, pump, and resevoir. So I'm trying to study up and figure out exactly what components would be the best for my system if I want to OC.

Once I figure out what rad(s) I want, then I've got to decide on the pump(s) res(s), and fans.


Just to give me an idea of what stuff I should look into:

If you had the CPU and GPUs I have, what would your complete WC system be for OCing?
Click to expand...
For $450, I'll handpick my parts or get the waterkeg.

For my setup, I am running a PA120.3 for my QX6700 3.33Ghz and NB, another PA120.3 for my SB and 2 GTX Superclocked cards.

Nexus fans, EK Waterblocks for Gfx, SB/NB and D-Tek fuzion on the CPU. EK resevoirs and MCP 655 pumps.
 
Waterboy said:
Sounds good....Throw some of those low speed yates on and you're golden.
Click to expand...

Am I correct in saying that if you mount 6 fans (3 pushing and 3 pulling) on the 120.3 you can run them at really low RPMs for near silent operation and still get enough cooling power for great overclocks?

Is it overkill to do this? Do they make fans that are powerful enough to cool the 120.3 for good overclocking performance and still be quiet (or near quiet)? I've been hearing alot about Yate Loons on this forum. Are they quiet and powerful, or just powerful?

The way I look at it (and maybe my logic is flawed here) but if I'm not worried about noise, I'll get a bunch of really high CFM case fans and a Tuniq Tower 120 and I have a good chance of OCing well past 3.0ghz. Alot of people have had great success with the G0 stepping chips. With HSFs as powerful as the Tuniq Tower 120, you get near H20 cooling power.

The reason people spend the extra money on watercooling is to get great OC performance quietly. Like I said, maybe I don't fully understand the mindset of the watercooling enthusiast crowd (yet), but I always thought that was one of the big pluses of going with H20. I guess maybe I have a flawed or biased perspective because my first (and only so far) watercooling system was a Zalman reserator, and Zalman seems to pride themselves on trying to create all of these fanless, or near fanless watercooling solutions, but maybe the Zalman products are not a stereotypical example of what H20 enthusiasts are looking for.. I definitely don't see many people using Zalman H20 stuff around here.
 
Two PA120.3 with low speed fans will give you great overclocks, especially on a MountainMod case that takes air directly from the outside into your PC. If you want to keep things simple, you could put it all on one loop as the cooling power of two 120.3's should handle anything.

Low powered fans should be ok. "If", and this may not even happen, your low powered yate loons are still too noisy, you can try experimenting with turning a couple of fans off or get a fan controller (i.e. like the T-balancer) that automatically adjusts fans based on temps. This will only happen if your ambient temps are very high and you're hardcore benching over a long time. You want your fans to make noise when they have to but be silent when you don't need the extra cooling power and a fan controller can help.

If done right, you should get great overclocks with very low noise, much lower than using air.



As for Zalman, it's ok for the low/mid range or the 'value' customer but you're talking about high end kit like 8800GTX SLI and quadcores. So you need high end watercooling.
 
jchahn said:
Am I correct in saying that if you mount 6 fans (3 pushing and 3 pulling) on the 120.3 you can run them at really low RPMs for near silent operation and still get enough cooling power for great overclocks?

Is it overkill to do this? Do they make fans that are powerful enough to cool the 120.3 for good overclocking performance and still be quiet (or near quiet)? I've been hearing alot about Yate Loons on this forum. Are they quiet and powerful, or just powerful?
Click to expand...

Alot of people run this setup- specially when they don't have the room for two radiators.

As for Yates, they are great multi-purpose fans. They are not the quietest or push the most CFM, but they are a great compromise and the pric of them is a definate plus. If you want to compromise on any of those three variables for fans (CFM/Price/Noise), there is several options that open up to you.

If money isn't an issue, you can get the golfball fans for great CFM. Nexus fans are basically de-tuned Yates that run on 12v, so you don't need a fan controller and they are quiet and strong enough to push air through a radiator.

My 6 nexus fans running at 1000 rpm on 12 v cannot be heard. The only sound I can hear is the air passing through the radiator.

jchahn said:
The way I look at it (and maybe my logic is flawed here) but if I'm not worried about noise, I'll get a bunch of really high CFM case fans and a Tuniq Tower 120 and I have a good chance of OCing well past 3.0ghz. Alot of people have had great success with the G0 stepping chips. With HSFs as powerful as the Tuniq Tower 120, you get near H20 cooling power.
Click to expand...

If you get a TT120- yes, you can match entry level watercooling. They are a great cooler. The downside for me is the noise. My system sits on my desk, and I do alot of work besides gaming. It's why I ditched my Zalman 9700NT cooler.

jchahn said:
The reason people spend the extra money on watercooling is to get great OC performance quietly. Like I said, maybe I don't fully understand the mindset of the watercooling enthusiast crowd (yet), but I always thought that was one of the big pluses of going with H20. I guess maybe I have a flawed or biased perspective because my first (and only so far) watercooling system was a Zalman reserator, and Zalman seems to pride themselves on trying to create all of these fanless, or near fanless watercooling solutions, but maybe the Zalman products are not a stereotypical example of what H20 enthusiasts are looking for.. I definitely don't see many people using Zalman H20 stuff around here.
Click to expand...

I would say that for the average computer user diving into watercooling their system for the first time, would do well with a turn-key solution like the waterkeg or the reserator. But, like buying a Dell or a Gateway machine from retail, you can hand pick better parts for the same price if you are confident you can assemble it yourself.

When you are speaking about "Enthusiast" watercooling, you are talking about ultra quiet, higher than average overclocking, and/or little regard for overall cost. Many even do it to challenge themselves and focus on presentation. There are alot of extreme watercooling folks who will eek out as much degrees of heat as possible spending hundreds of dollars on lapping, high end TIM, extreme case modification and the like. All for a delta of 5C or so.

But you can't forget the underlying tech behind watercooling. Get more performance out of your system without compromising stability. IMO, air cooling provides less control of system temps and the case temps can dramatically affect your CPU, GFX and chipset temps from day to day. Case crowding and air flow also inhibits an air cooled system as well.

With water, outside air is your main source for heat disappation and won't fluctuate as much.
 
friedchicken said:
When you are speaking about "Enthusiast" watercooling, you are talking about ultra quiet, higher than average overclocking, and/or little regard for overall cost. Many even do it to challenge themselves and focus on presentation. There are alot of extreme watercooling folks who will eek out as much degrees of heat as possible spending hundreds of dollars on lapping, high end TIM, extreme case modification and the like. All for a delta of 5C or so.
Click to expand...

Here is the link to my buddy's rig...as you can see from all the pictures, he put in a lot of time and money. He cares about the noise and look more so then what he can overclock his system to. btw..that case is awesome. He did a really nice job on it.....kinda pricy for me, but I think it is in line with the Mountain Mods? I don't know, I don't spend that kind of money on a case.
 
I guess I fall into that category as well. Cost isn't a factor, but I do like innovative designs and layouts. Visual balance is the key for me.

That is a beautiful case and I can see all the work that has gone into it. My only criticism for that case is too many colours and too many tubing profiles (sizes, directions, colours, coils)

But then again, I can be a bit of a minimalist.
 
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