Vista vs. XP - average user discussion

Backstory: My parents got my old gaming computer a few years back and it's been dying slowly (random crashes, no BSOD). They've wanted an LCD for a couple months, so I've been looking around for the best deal I could get for them that would net them a decent computer and a monitor. Dell did a "back to school special" - $400 for a decent enough computer and a 17" LCD. The specs weren't bad and the price was great, so we bought it. However, it comes with Vista Basic and all they have used for the past 5 years or so is Windows XP.

Now, I'm a Mac user, and even at work, we use Windows XP (or Server 2003). I have no experience with Vista. So is Vista Basic going to be a hard upgrade for the less tech-savvy users? We're talking web, e-mail, bejeweled, freecell, instant messenger and Office.

Would my time be better spent learning Vista to teach them the new stuff they will encounter or should I just wipe it and reinstall XP with the license from the junk computer?

In my opinion, I'd leave Vista Basic on there, especially if they plan to keep this computer for quite some time. For what they do, aka, the basics, Vista will be just fine for them.

I'd Anytime Upgrade it to Home Premium. Your parents see those translucent windows, and they'll assume it's better

Keep it for sure. Also keep UAC on, and set their primary account to a limited. Best thing I ever did to my little sibling's computers, I haven't had a single headache since installing Vista and cranking down security.

LstOfTheBrunnenG said:

I'd Anytime Upgrade it to Home Premium. Your parents see those translucent windows, and they'll assume it's better

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I have to disagree. Maybe it was because my IGP sucks, but running Glass caused massive slowdowns when I dragged windows around. Disabling glass solved all those problems.

Having Aero run smoothly on an integrated graphics system is, in most cases, simply a matter of ensuring the rig has adequate system memory and that a minimum of 128Mb is allocated as 'shared' graphics memory. Almost all new entry-level budget rigs can benefit from an additional RAM module and a tweak to settings



An upgrade to Home Premium would definitely be advisable if your parents are likely to actually use the included extra features Home Premium brings. If they're not, then the upgrade isn't warranted, and the 'Aero' consideration becomes a moot point.

But, as mentioned, leaving Vista on the system is a very wise move. It's a better OS to use in this scenario, because there are added protections to assist you to support them and to help in protecting them from themselves.

InorganicMatter said:

Keep it for sure. Also keep UAC on, and set their primary account to a limited. Best thing I ever did to my little sibling's computers, I haven't had a single headache since installing Vista and cranking down security.



I have to disagree. Maybe it was because my IGP sucks, but running Glass caused massive slowdowns when I dragged windows around. Disabling glass solved all those problems.

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I agree with the first part, whole heartedly.

The second part is because your IGP sucks. Hitting it with my hardware there is no speed difference. Well, except everytime I click the pretty, glowing, red "close" button, and the window animates away in a few tenths of a second vs going away instantly. That is a "feature" not a "bug", though. In short, it is "snapy" with out Aero, and it's "snapy" with Aero.

InorganicMatter said:

Keep it for sure. Also keep UAC on, and set their primary account to a limited. Best thing I ever did to my little sibling's computers, I haven't had a single headache since installing Vista and cranking down security.

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I also agree with this. It will save you MANY headaches. As a limited user, the fact is they cannot crash the system near as easily as in XP with a limited account.

It really is up to you. If you have tried Vista, and you dont like it, then put XP back on there. If you've tried it and you like it, then keep it...

This is one of those things where you have to use your own judgement. Most of these guys live on the windows forum, and literally worship the very word "Vista" It --is-- holy to them.. Take what they say with a very large amount of salt, and instead try it for yourself, and make up your own mind.

They don't crash the system as it is - the crashes are currently being caused by the RAM that's in it. Long story short, it wasn't worth it to buy more RAM when they could get an LCD + computer for so little.

duby229 said:

Most of these guys live on the windows forum, and literally worship the very word "Vista" It --is-- holy to them.. Take what they say with a very large amount of salt, and instead try it for yourself, and make up your own mind.

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This is getting out of hand, really. Why do you think some people have to defend Vista? I'll give one reason. To stop the spread of ridiculous information that is posted. There are legitimate criticisms of Vista, and they there's ignorant, false rants. Just because some people put effort into making sure the truth is discussed, is hardly a thing to turn your nose up to.

Besides, if you do any kind of reading, you'll notice that most of the legitimate responders always say to do your own research, and not become a sheeple to what others tell them. No one's worshipping Vista. No one. But many of use run it and love it. And those of us who do are trying to help out others who also run Vista, all while trying to keep the false information out.

Besides...how do you think you and your Linux boys would react if some of us "Windows" guys started posting in your subforum, ranting on and on with negatives about Linux? Maybe we should just come right out and start threads saying Linux blows, Linux is the devil, etc, without providing any reasons. If you think it's bad in here, just imagine that scenario for a moment.

But you see it's that right there. I never said Vista was bad. I told the guy to try it for himself to make up his own mind. You then come in here and criticize me personally for telling the guy to make up his own mind, and then twist what I said into a meaning it never had.

The problem is that guys come in here and ask for opinions, and when an opinion is given they get criticized for it. I think that is hypocritical in the worst way. I dont personally like Vista, but I never told the guy that. Instead I told him to try it for himself. Instead of making baseless claims that Vista is perfect and great and functional for all, maybe ya'll can open your ass and take the pipe out, then sit back down, and suggest people make up there own minds.

As mentioned before, we saw this same kind of stuff when XP first came out, and I have no doubt we'll see it again a few years down the road when Windows 7 surfaces. A new OS is always going to be a bumpy ride with compatibility issues. Some people will like it, some people will not...some will just wait for it to get ironed out.

I do believe you should try an OS fully before commenting on it, and it seems a lot of Vista bashers don't really understand the OS and want to cling to XP or their favorite Linux distro. That's fine with me, I stuck with Windows 2000 until last year, and I bashed XP in my time...at least until SP2 cleaned it up (at which point I went to XP). Just make sure your commentary is logical and well-founded.

I completely understand djnes's reaction, I have to defend Vista all the time (not in here so much, I mostly just tech support it) and it gets irritating when you see the same false points made over and over again. I believe, duby, that he reacted that over your "worship" comment, which was unnecessary. I know your point was that Vista is pushed in here, but you could have just said THAT.

I don't like seeing posts in here being locked/deleted so let's be mature about this. The original replies are valid - Vista is worth a shot, but don't be afraid to fall back to XP if it isn't your cup of tea. If you don't have the time or skill to fully explore/research Vista, then you might be better off with XP, as Vista can take some effort depending on the computer.

duby229 said:

But you see it's that right there. I never said Vista was bad. I told the guy to try it for himself to make up his own mind. You then come in here and criticize me personally for telling the guy to make up his own mind, and then twist what I said into a meaning it never had.

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I guess you didn't read closely what I said. Show me where I had a problem with telling someone to do their own research. Quite the contrary. My point of issue is in your need to take a shot at the people who are trying to be truthful about Vista, which is often mistaken for "Vista worshipping".

It's time for many to admit there are zealots on both sides of the issue, rather than just on the pro-Vista side. If anyone bashes Vista, they are flamed. If anyone tries to defend Vista, they are flamed. See what I mean? The problem is, much of the flaming on both sides is forged out of ignorance. The amount of misinformation out there is sickening, and it's getting to the point where it's nearly impossible to help people with Vista issues because of the trolling (again, both sides), but the majority of trolling is done on the anti-Vista side. I'll state it again right here, that I'm not pointing at you when I am referring to trolling, because I'm sure you'd think that if it wasn't stated.

djnes said:

The amount of misinformation out there is sickening, and it's getting to the point where it's nearly impossible to help people with Vista issues because of the trolling (again, both sides), but the majority of trolling is done on the anti-Vista side.

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I will agree with that...trolling and unnecessary commentary just make it more difficult for everyone involved. That's why I stick to support threads and offer direct answers, because otherwise you're just wasting people's time. To paraphrase the old saying...if you don't have anything positive to add to the discussion, don't type anything at all.

djnes said:

I guess you didn't read closely what I said. Show me where I had a problem with telling someone to do their own research. Quite the contrary. My point of issue is in your need to take a shot at the people who are trying to be truthful about Vista, which is often mistaken for "Vista worshipping".

It's time for many to admit there are zealots on both sides of the issue, rather than just on the pro-Vista side. If anyone bashes Vista, they are flamed. If anyone tries to defend Vista, they are flamed. See what I mean? The problem is, much of the flaming on both sides is forged out of ignorance. The amount of misinformation out there is sickening, and it's getting to the point where it's nearly impossible to help people with Vista issues because of the trolling (again, both sides), but the majority of trolling is done on the anti-Vista side. I'll state it again right here, that I'm not pointing at you when I am referring to trolling, because I'm sure you'd think that if it wasn't stated.

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I think this is a fair post, and I would like a fair opportunity to respond. Thank you for being civil, and making some good points that need to be made.


I agree that it is happening on both sides. You tend to defend Vista like it was a religion, and I tend to offer alternative advise. So based on that I am a "hater" and your a "zealot" ???? I am a troll and your a fanboy ?????

Sorry but I dont agree with that one little bit. If someone asks for advice on a problem someone may come into thread and say Vista wont work for you needs, or Vista has a bug in the filesystem which makes it slow as a dog in some rare cases. Or Vista doesnt work with that hardware becouse of --needless-- changes in the driver subsystem. Or that sound card doesnt work right becouse of --incomplete-- sound system in Vista's software stack. Or a thousand other perfectly valid and legitimate reasons why vista wont work properly in a given scenario. etc etc etc etc etc.....

Suddenly we have the usual folks come in there and begin bashing and berating that person, in both that thread and PM's... Usually 3 or 4 of them will get that persons email address and begin spamming his inbox, then they'll report that person to the mods.... Meanwhile the Ops problems were never fully explored and never solved. Needless to say I think it is hypocritical in the worse kind of way. First you never corrected any misinformation at all, and spread a ton of your own OPINIONS as if they were fact. In doing so YOU have spread misinformation....

Attacking a person publicly on the forum, in private messages, in email, and on public blogs. While also claiming that Vista will work for everyone on anything for every need in every case, flawlessly 100% of the time..... Is the absolute worse kind of hypocrite.

This is the scenario that I was referring to in my initial post in this thread. Hence why I told him to try it for himself. If these folks dont "worship" what else would it be called? What other word would be more appropriate then that?

djnes said:

There are legitimate criticisms of Vista, and they there's ignorant, false rants.

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This is to anyone who thinks that everyone around here is a Vista "fan-boy"...

I challenge you to find an instance of a legitimate fault in Vista that was ignored by the "fan-boys" that are pro-Vista. If you do, post it.
I know as a fact that anyone labeled around here as a "Vista fan-boy" can give you a list of their own problems with Vista (I know many of the fans of Vista around here have posted issues with Vista).

duby229 said:

But you see it's that right there. I never said Vista was bad.

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And that is total and complete BS. Anyone that has been around here long enough knows good and well about your thoughts on Vista. Just because it was not specifically mentioned in this particular thread does not mean you haven't said it in the past.
Some thread titles worth mentioning:
Microsoft shoots self in DRM foot
The Inside History of MS Windows.
MS sued for 1.5 Billion
IE 7 interface sucks.
An interesting observation (A bash on Windows)
Windows XP "Phones Home
MS is now making laws.

Actually, those threads weren't even a selection. Those are every single thread posted to this OS forum by you. And you are not knocking Windows or Microsoft, or consider it "bad"? BS.

duby229 said:

The problem is that guys come in here and ask for opinions, and when an opinion is given they get criticized for it.

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I would like to see some examples, please.
It is one thing to say, "I personally just don't like UAC", and quite another to say "UAC prompts me when I start my computer, log off, shut down, etc" (ring a bell???). Everyone that has actually used Vista knows crap claims like that are false, and which is why you are so often met with criticism.

duby229 said:

It really is up to you. If you have tried Vista, and you dont like it, then put XP back on there. If you've tried it and you like it, then keep it...

This is one of those things where you have to use your own judgment. Most of these guys live on the windows forum, and literally worship the very word "Vista" It --is-- holy to them.. Take what they say with a very large amount of salt, and instead try it for yourself, and make up your own mind.

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Yeah, aren't you the one to talk. You try to indirectly say that the entire Vista platform should be taken with a large amount of salt and that anyone who uses Vista is either a hypocrite or a raving mad about windows in general. He ASKED FOR the peoples opinion to to what OS he should choose since we, obviously since we are a [H]ardware Forum. Next time that I decide to take a look at Linux I should take that with a 120lb bag of salt since it obviously --is-- "holier than thou" to you and many of the other fanatics in your 'area of expertise'.

Thanks, but no thanks. I'd rather stick with an OS that is the same rather than "Flavor of the Day Linux."

duby229 said:

I agree that it is happening on both sides. You tend to defend Vista like it was a religion, and I tend to offer alternative advise. So based on that I am a "hater" and your a "zealot" ???? I am a troll and your a fanboy ?????

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Are you serioues? I'm asking this honestly, are you serious? You thank me for being civil and then you post this mess?

http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1031265084&postcount=8
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1031265217&postcount=11
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1031150558&postcount=2

I tried being civil, but you'll have none of it. Read those links and tell me what they have in common. Go ahead, I'll wait. There's plenty more where they come from. I didn't want to call you a troll, as I was trying to be civil, but I can't ignore it anymore. I have a standard answer when people ask if they should go to Vista. Calling me a zealot and a worshipper proves you are only out to troll. As I said above, read those links and then come back here and try calling me a zealot.

/never mind

And now the bashing on the forum and PM's, and Email has started. Next comes someones blog, and then the mods.... Why? Becouse I told someone they should make up there own mind about Vista....

A shame really.

If you had said just the bit about making up your own mind, everyone would have been happy to agree with you. But you had to slip that bit about Vista worshippers in there, and people took offense at it.

duby229 said:

And now the bashing on the forum and PM's, and Email has started. Next comes someones blog, and then the mods.... Why? Becouse I told someone they should make up there own mind about Vista....

A shame really.

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If you want to look to a root cause, look in the mirror. I tried being civil and asking for an end to the bickering. I sat right in the middle blaming both sides. However, you opened your mouth to criticize me, without knowing what you were talking about. Instead of realizing we were giving out the same advice, and asking people to do their own research, you decided to start firing at me. You opened your mouth and put your foot immediately in it, simple because you chose to argue rather than figure out what I was about. You made assumptions, so know you can't blame anyone for the backlash you get.

The shame is, rather than being a contributor, you wanted to label anyone a zealout who didn't agree with you....even one person who DID agree with you. This trolling and bickering gets us NOWHERE fast towards helping people who WANT to use Vista and need some help along the way, as is common with ANY new OS.

djnes said:

If you want to look to a root cause, look in the mirror. I tried being civil and asking for an end to the bickering. I sat right in the middle blaming both sides. However, you opened your mouth to criticize me, without knowing what you were talking about. Instead of realizing we were giving out the same advice, and asking people to do their own research, you decided to start firing at me. You opened your mouth and put your foot immediately in it, simple because you chose to argue rather than figure out what I was about. You made assumptions, so know you can't blame anyone for the backlash you get.

The shame is, rather than being a contributor, you wanted to label anyone a zealout who didn't agree with you....even one person who DID agree with you. This trolling and bickering gets us NOWHERE fast towards helping people who WANT to use Vista and need some help along the way, as is common with ANY new OS.

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This is something I said earlier that applies perfectly well to this thread....

Meanwhile the Ops problems were never fully explored and never solved. Needless to say I think it is hypocritical in the worse kind of way. First you never corrected any misinformation at all, and spread a ton of your own OPINIONS as if they were fact. In doing so YOU have spread misinformation....

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I'm sorry, but when someone posts opinions, and then someone responds back with links (factual evidence)- it has been corrected.

Now, when said person who originally posted the claim ignores all factual evidence, yet continues to claim it as fact (which has been corrected with links), that person has no idea what they are talking about.

duby229 said:

This is something I said earlier that applies perfectly well to this thread....

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You're absolutely right, which is why people were so pissed off that you had to derail the thread with your "worshipping" comment, as opposed to sticking with the task at hand.

If you do a simple trace back through this thread, it was completely on topic, with some excellent discussions until post #8. It's right there in print for everyone to see.

I am tired of all you people's petty bickering. You are all banned for 10 days if you even posted in this thread and had attitude. I am tired of the whining and have to babysit. Some of you need a break and probably should consider never using our forums again if you have an issue with my actions here or the way they are run.