Looking for bookshelf speakers

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si0dine

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 7, 2005
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I'm looking for some bookshelf speakers for my computer around the $250 mark. The only pair of speakers on my list right now are the Swan M200s. I'm a bit worried about the bass though, but from what I understand you can buy a seperate subwoofer and connect them somehow. I might be tempted to spring for more expensive bookshelves if I don't have to worry about an amp and seperate subwoofer though. I was looking at the Usher 520s, but I couldn't find anywhere to buy them. Anyway, if anyone has some suggestions I'd appreciate it.
 
Yeah, I looked there, but they don't sell in my area. Is there some online store I can buy them from?
 
I've heard really good reviews about the AV123 X-LS speakers. If you get the black ones, its $260 including shipping. I ordered them and they are in the mail. I'll tell you what I think in a few days.
 
si0dine said:
I'm looking for some bookshelf speakers for my computer around the $250 mark. The only pair of speakers on my list right now are the Swan M200s. I'm a bit worried about the bass though, but from what I understand you can buy a seperate subwoofer and connect them somehow. I might be tempted to spring for more expensive bookshelves if I don't have to worry about an amp and seperate subwoofer though. I was looking at the Usher 520s, but I couldn't find anywhere to buy them. Anyway, if anyone has some suggestions I'd appreciate it.
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The M200s do not have deep or powerful bass. I've been thinking about buying a sub to go along with mine.

Other than the bass (which isn't a huge deal for me, I mostly listen to rock), I am very happy with them.
 
speakers_82_3.jpg


How would these connect to my soundcard?
 
Your soundcard would connect to a receiver or preamp and amp combo, which would then power these bookshelves. The soundcard by itself barely supplies enough power to drive headphones directly.
 
I'd probably get a separate amp/receiver. It's not that you can't get speakers that don't need them, it is just that they tend to be rather pricey because they are made for studios mainly. If you really want some cheaper ones with amp integrated, look at the Behringer Truth B2030As. They are bookshelf speakers that have an amp built in. You'd just need to buy the cabling to go from the 1/8" stereo out of the computer to the 1/4" or XLR mono inputs on the speakers and they'd work. Expect to pay about $280 per pair. Supposing you went that way you might want to get the B2031As instead which have larger woofers and thus more bass. Those are more like $340 per pair.

Despite the fact that it'd cost more overall, I'd say go for a receiver and some speakers. I like the Yamaha HTR receivers and the HTR-5930 would probably do the job nicely at about $170. For the speakers I'd then probably look at the SVS bookshelf speakers. They are $225/pair. I've not personally heard them but I can't say enough good things about the SVS sub I got, and they bookshelf speakers get rave reviews (they take returns if you don't like them).

Though the receiver/speakers thing costs more up front, it gives you more options in the long run and can be cheaper. Remember that with the Behringer speakers, I'm essentially showing you the cheapest self powered speakers out there. Behringer is good for the money, but it's known for the best quality.
 
Most of those dealers will ship. I bought my Usher 520s for $295 shipped from a Chicago dealer but that sale is over. :)
 
Sycraft said:
I'd probably get a separate amp/receiver. It's not that you can't get speakers that don't need them, it is just that they tend to be rather pricey because they are made for studios mainly. If you really want some cheaper ones with amp integrated, look at the Behringer Truth B2030As. They are bookshelf speakers that have an amp built in. You'd just need to buy the cabling to go from the 1/8" stereo out of the computer to the 1/4" or XLR mono inputs on the speakers and they'd work. Expect to pay about $280 per pair. Supposing you went that way you might want to get the B2031As instead which have larger woofers and thus more bass. Those are more like $340 per pair.

Despite the fact that it'd cost more overall, I'd say go for a receiver and some speakers. I like the Yamaha HTR receivers and the HTR-5930 would probably do the job nicely at about $170. For the speakers I'd then probably look at the SVS bookshelf speakers. They are $225/pair. I've not personally heard them but I can't say enough good things about the SVS sub I got, and they bookshelf speakers get rave reviews (they take returns if you don't like them).

Though the receiver/speakers thing costs more up front, it gives you more options in the long run and can be cheaper. Remember that with the Behringer speakers, I'm essentially showing you the cheapest self powered speakers out there. Behringer is good for the money, but it's known for the best quality.
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http://www.sonicboomaudio.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=471

These are the ones you're talking about right? Also, if I buy that Yamaha reciever, will it power high impedance headphones like the Beyerdynamic DT990s?
 
A receiver is probably not the best idea for powering headphones. I have tried my headphones from an XR-55. They work, but there's something missing. Then again, you might not care.
 
In reviews, I saw that the SVS did not sound as good as the X-LS at normal listening volumes. However, if you want "loud party speakers" the SVS would probably be better for that. I'll tell you what I think of the X-LS when I get them today. :)
 
I've got a new pair of X-LS in piano rosewood. They sound really good with all my games, videos and music. I just added a JBL subwoofer, too. I love my 2.1 setup and recommend highly the X-LS. The piano rosewood version is the most expensive X-LS at $279 + shipping, but they look incredible.
 
I know a really good setup that works really well for computer use but it is more than $250.00.
Here it is in case you decide to increase your budget.


Speakers - http://www.energy-speakers.com/v2/products/product-line.php?id=318

Subwoofer - http://www.energy-speakers.com/v2/products/product-page.php?id=40

Very detailed sound with decent bottom end. If you want more bass than 26hz provides then buy one of their larger woofer models. 8" sub is plenty deep enough and has tighter sound than the larger 10" or 12" and costs less too. You will never get good bottom end from just bookshelf speakers or satellites because with that speaker design it is physically impossible. You need a large box to move air for deep bass.
 
Ummm, ya, Class A amps in a computer setup are going to be a rarity to say the least. Price aside (I'm not aware of any cheap ones these days) they are extremely inefficient and give off a ton of heat. Even if a fairly high end HT/computer setup I'm thinking Class AB amps are going to be what you'll find. Also I don't know that I'd say Class D (or T or whatever name they want to give to their proprietary variant) amps are inferior. They do have various signal distortions that A/AB amps don't, but then they don't have distortions that those do. It is a tradeoff and it's not just an efficiency one. There are a number of home theatre and high end companies that have started playing with it. Yamaha has a Class D amp out, and Rotel has a whole Class D lineup.

When you are talking about speakers that are less than $200, it seems silly to go all amp snob. Ok, if you are buying $50,000 reference speakers, you worry about the topology of your amp. If you are getting some decent HT book shelf speakers you worry about getting an amp that sounds good and doesn't cost too much.

My only concern with the T amp could be power. In a gaming or movie situation I could see it not having enough power to do the big bangs and such and thus distorting. 6 watts (which is its max before distortion starts rising a lot on 8 ohms) is just a little thin of a margin, I think. I think 40-50 watts would be a more realistic minimum. You aren't likely to drive it that high often, but there are things out there that call for some real dynamics so you want to have an amp that can handle that.
 
T amp is fine for speakers that sit a foot in front of your ears, unless your speakers are 78dB 1W/1m efficient. It is generally not good for a home theater, nor did I recommend it for such.
 
Cyrilix said:
A receiver is probably not the best idea for powering headphones. I have tried my headphones from an XR-55. They work, but there's something missing. Then again, you might not care.
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Harmon Kardon's new receivers apparently have really good headphone out. Someone at headfi was claiming they are as good as the Heed headphone amp.
 
Sycraft said:
Ummm, ya, Class A amps in a computer setup are going to be a rarity to say the least.
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EMU 0404 USB external soundcard has ClassA headphone amp. It doesn't get very hot either. But that is no good for speakers of course.

I didn't know Rotel is now using ClassD, I'll have to go check them out and see how they are. One can buy used older ClassA amps on eBay for quite cheap if you search. I'm using an Audiolab 8000A from 1992 or so and it is very good. Just had to clean the inside and contacts. You can get those for a decent price used but still out of the OP's budget.
 
dandragonrage said:
T amp is fine for speakers that sit a foot in front of your ears, unless your speakers are 78dB 1W/1m efficient.
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The T-Amp would be reasonable with speakers rated at around 90dB, so long as they're reasonably close (a foot is not reasonable on the opposite end of the spectrum), but I wouldn't recommend it either. Drivers tend to thrive with dynamic material when they have a fairly inexhaustible supply of power to pull from.

Some Tripath amps would be recommendable, but yeah, not the T-Amp.
 
T amp. Speakers are going to be much louder when you're sitting 1' from them as opposed to 10' as you might be in a living room. It makes a huge difference. T Amp is enough for a computer (as long as you have a decent power supply for it).
 
Some theoretical maths.

x-ls efficiency is rated at 86dB @ 1 watt/1 meter. Two x-ls driven at one watt/channel yields 89dB at one meter. T-Amp is realistically 4 watts RMS/channel, program around 3 watts (estimation). Ergo, maximum SPL at one meter is around 93dB (fairly loud). Halve the distance to .5 meters (about 19 inches - monitor distance), and you're at around 99dB SPL (point source distance attenuation). This is all in a theoretical anechoic environment.

But, again, drivers crave maneuvering room. I'd get the Super T-Amp, not because it's specifically more powerful, but it improves upon the original in many ways. There are still better Tripath options, though, for more bucks.

Oh, and the difference between one foot and ten feet? About 20dB SPL, or a sizable chunk of acoustic pressure.
 
Gatticus said:
T amp is more efficient but sonically inferior to ClassA amp. If you are on a tight budget I guess it is ok though.
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Why anyone would recommend a Class A amp for a computer setup is beyond me, unless the OP is psycho. To get something of decent power, a Class A amp would cost more like mine. And the damage to the wallet aint pretty.
 
How much do the tripath amps cost, and can you link me to some online retailers that have them? Also, do tripath amps generate a lot of heat because I already have a 8800GTX that turns my room into a sauna.
 
phide said:
Some theoretical maths.

x-ls efficiency is rated at 86dB @ 1 watt/1 meter. Two x-ls driven at one watt/channel yields 89dB at one meter. T-Amp is realistically 4 watts RMS/channel, program around 3 watts (estimation). Ergo, maximum SPL at one meter is around 93dB (fairly loud). Halve the distance to .5 meters (about 19 inches - monitor distance), and you're at around 99dB SPL (point source distance attenuation). This is all in a theoretical anechoic environment.
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The real problem is with dynamic material, which games tend to be. You'll get no argument out of me that for much of music, no serious power is needed. Since modern music is generally limited all to hell, it's no biggie. I rarely run my speakers at over a watt per channel and they are about 6 feet away (floor standing). However for games and movies, I've got to turn that up.

I guess a T-Amp would be fine if you really have a narrow budget and $30 or so is all you can swing, I'd just really recommend shooting for something bigger. Maybe troll eBay for some used gear. I've found that Hafler amps seem to crop up all the time there for good prices and they tend to last well and thus be a good buy used.

I am just concerned that mating some good bookshelf speakers with a weak amp would yield some real unhappiness with the setup.
 
I suggest going with a budget/mid-level HT receiver. You can pick up a nice Onkyo refurb for well under $200. I bought a Yamaha RX-V990 in immaculate shape for $190 on eBay.
 
si0dine said:
Also, do tripath amps generate a lot of heat because I already have a 8800GTX that turns my room into a sauna.
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Most Tripath amps are around 85-90% efficient. For the typical six watts the amp is spitting out during peak program (and practically zero during idle), you can expect that power consumption might hover around seven to eight watts. Much of the energy ends up as heat, with a small portion ending up as acoustic energy. Seven watts is a couple 120mm fans worth of energy.

dandragonrage said:
T amp is around $30
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Gotta figure the power brick cost as well, though. Typically $15.

Sycraft said:
The real problem is with dynamic material, which games tend to be.
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Yep. As I mentioned earlier, drivers need to be able to "pull" from a reservoir of power, so to speak, to faithfully recreate dynamic material, which is the real reason why audiophiles tend to invest in overkill power amps. It'd be reasonably fine for higher-efficiency speakers above the 90dB realm, for both gaming and movies, but I'm not so sure I'd be satisfied with the 86dB x-ls.

Sycraft said:
I am just concerned that mating some good bookshelf speakers with a weak amp would yield some real unhappiness with the setup.
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Which is why I wouldn't go for any speakers over $100 with the T-Amp. I'd snag the now $80 Insignia NS-B2111s, or ideally wait for them to go on sale. They're certainly no match for the x-ls, but the price is unbeatable.

Still...I think the Super T-Amp is the better buy here. The original is not without its shortcomings.
 
Since the X-LS cost around $250, I'd be fine paying ~$100 for the amp or reciever.
 
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