Vista OEM re-activation

So.... I had a little issue with one of my Vista machines recently, and I wound up re-installing Vista Home Premium, an OEM version.

I decided that I would wait to activate, as a lot of what I have read recently led me to believe that, at the very least, a call to Microsoft would be necessary in order to get it activated. Long story short, day 30 rolled around, I clicked "activate" and.... it activated, no questions, no "sorry, you gotta call" no nothing.

Anyhow, after reading the little thread about Microsoft watching you, it got me to thinking....and this could be 100% bullshit, but it's a thought.... so here goes.

What do you suppose the odds are that these hardware id's and IP's that Microsoft may or may not be tracking are used for things like re-activation... I didn't change any hardware, I simply formatted and re-installed the same copy of Vista that was on the machine to begin with, re-entered the same product id number, and it activated without issue....

Now, of course, I may be missing something here, perhaps there is nothing unusual about my re-activation experience at all, maybe it's perfectly normal for this type of thing to happen, but I had been under the impression that with Vista, even more so than XP, re-activating would require a call to Microsoft....

Anyone have any thoughts or similar experiences??

Honestly, I would hope Microsoft WOULD be tracking hardware IDs. My thought would be that if your computer has a unique hardware ID (based in part off of MAC address, so every computer, even with identical hardware would be different), then the re-activation process should be as simple as clicking the button. In that case, your key and hardware ID matches what's already on file, so the activation process assumes it's a re-install on the same computer.

If the hardware ID is different, you'd get a prompt to call in. If the hardware ID on file is the same, it should activate immediately. I'm not sure if it actually works this way, but it does show that maybe if some information is sent to Microsoft, it's not always a bad thing.

I just re-installed my copy of XP recently that i've had since XP came around... I've always called and wasted 20minutes trying to tell 8 not A, B not V... and so on. This time around I decided to click to do it over the internet, and worked like a charm. Was kinda cool.

djnes said:

I'm not sure if it actually works this way, but it does show that maybe if some information is sent to Microsoft, it's not always a bad thing.

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It obviously doesn't work that way. In actual fact, so little personally distinguishable information is sent that call centre personnel even have to ask the customer if their copy of Windows is OEM or Retail.

I'd hazard a guess that the paranoia about privacy concerns is the reason so little information is sent and the reason we have inadequate checks which so often are in error about the legitimacy of the legitimacy of your Windows installation. The bulk of checking is actually done on your machine, rather than on Microsoft machines, and it's done against patterns which are too broad to be adequately accurate. I agree. If the information sent was more detailed we'd be confronted with a better scenario.


Your product key is pattern matched on your machine to determine which product package it falls within the allowable range for. In other words, the checking to determine if your Windows installation is OEM or Retail, whether it is Home Edition, Business Edition, Ultimate Edition or whatever, and whether it is a full install or upgrade install package is done locally, rather than on a Microsoft machine. The product key per se is not transmitted other than to check it against a list of known 'blocked' product keys, which Microsoft has detected as ones used in illegal distributions or ones which have been reported as problemmatic. The 'hardware hash' changes over time. That's checked on the local machine as well. Only the "yay/nay" results of the check are transmitted. Every fine detail of the validity testing you investigate tells the same tale. The checking is done locally, using tools which are either included in the installation package or tools which are downloaded after installation, and only the test outcomes rather than the data details are transmitted "back home".

I've not yet seen any detailed information about how the activation/validation changes introduced with Vista actually work. I do know, though, that in similar fashion to XP the 'hardware hash' is reset every so often automatically, and is also reset if you activate by telephone after changing hardware. There are some other changes as well, but it seems to be a tad 'flakey' just yet, and tripping up over stuff it shouldn't really trip up over. I'd suggest, for example, that if people install a BIOS update or reset CMOS for some reason they adjust date and time in BIOS Setup before installing Vista or booting into Vista. If the system date gets set back to a time before Vista was released, and then adjusted later within Vista, activation/validation tends to shit itself!

Anyways, nothing dramatic, but I think people can well expect to see more reactivation prompts until the wrinkles get ironed out.

I've always called and wasted 20minutes trying to tell 8 not A, B not V... and so on.

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When this happens it's communication which has failed, and the cause could just as well be with the caller as it could be with the person at the other end of the line. If the person receiving the call can't tell what letter or number you said it's most likely because your own accent is too broad!

Phonetic alphabet comes in handy for times like that

What do you think the explanation to my experience is? I was talking with another [H] member yesterday about this and he had mentioned, as you said, that he flashed his bios the other day and had to re-activate.. and yet I completely re-installed an OEM version and it activated with no issue..

I just find that a bit odd, and I would like to understand why that happened... if you remember all the crap that was thrown around this exact forum over the fear and misunderstanding of OEM versions and reactivation not all that long ago... well, I guess it just goes to show that most of it was just that....crap....

Whilst I agree that the 'fear' about Vista activation was, as you put it, "crap", I'm far from convinced that it's yet reliable enough. There are hiccups and inconsistencies aplenty, and I simply don't believe that even the people who conducted the tweaking for Vista's activation yet know why some things happen sometimes!

On your rig no hardware changes had actually occurred. On the BIOS flashed rig the appearance could well have been that the hardware configuration had changed. BIOS flashes can do that, as they generally reset the configuration to default values. I'm sure there are many people who, like me, configure BIOS to what they want even before installing an OS on the system. A reset to default can enable devices not previously "present" or alternatively alter devices which were present.

On your system you saw the behaviour we'd all want and expect. Nothing had changed. You reinstalled and it reactivated. We've previously heard FUD about OEM installations only being allowed a one-time online activation. I've NEVER swallowed that'n! It'd cause far too much work for the call centres to handle!


But when you start altering BIOS setup - well - that IS making system hardware configuration changes!

Catweazle said:

Whilst I agree that the 'fear' about Vista activation was, as you put it, "crap", I'm far from convinced that it's yet reliable enough. There are hiccups and inconsistencies aplenty, and I simply don't believe that even the people who conducted the tweaking for Vista's activation yet know why some things happen sometimes!

On your rig no hardware changes had actually occurred. On the BIOS flashed rig the appearance could well have been that the hardware configuration had changed. BIOS flashes can do that, as they generally reset the configuration to default values. I'm sure there are many people who, like me, configure BIOS to what they want even before installing an OS on the system. A reset to default can enable devices not previously "present" or alternatively alter devices which were present.

On your system you saw the behaviour we'd all want and expect. Nothing had changed. You reinstalled and it reactivated. We've previously heard FUD about OEM installations only being allowed a one-time online activation. I've NEVER swallowed that'n! It'd cause far too much work for the call centres to handle!


But when you start altering BIOS setup - well - that IS making system hardware configuration changes!

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On the contrary. Altering BIOS setup is altering system settings. Nothing changes in the configuration.

With vista i think you get a certiant amount of "Get out of Jail Free Cards" With activating. Then after the X amount you have to start calling them. And telling them you only have it installed on one system just like XP

d3fc0n5 said:

With vista i think you get a certiant amount of "Get out of Jail Free Cards" With activating.

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Do you have some sort of source for this? I'm not saying your wrong... I just have never heard of such a thing and I can't really see the logic behind it... from Microsoft's side anyhow...

Finn said:

On the contrary. Altering BIOS setup is altering system settings. Nothing changes in the configuration.

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From the user's viewpoint it is. From the viewpoint of of the OS installation if the system configuration has altered then the hardware has altered.

A software routine is being run on the rig to detect system configuration changes. It's impossible for the software routine to sit there making the value judgement "Oh! That one wasn't a 'real' hardware change. It was just something enabled in BIOS which I didn't have mentioned to me previously!" A motherboard reports to the OS as umpteen separate system components. When changes to BIOS configuration occur which enable or disable individual onboard features it can only ever appear to the system as the addition or removal of components.

Question, lets assume one buys an OEM version, upgrades different components in their computer, say graphics card, replace a bad hard drive, upgrade to a new motherboard and processor, what then? you cannot reinstal VISTA??

I see this as a big problem, how many folks dont upgrade their computers?

Can anyone shed some light on this??? I would be grateful. Have not purchased VISTA and whether or not I will ever purchase it hinges on this issue. I have no use for an operating system that I cannot reactivate if I choose to upgrade or have to get a new motherboard or some other hardware down the road.

conghelach said:

Question<snip>

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Many here have reported that they have been able to upgrade or change hardware and re-activate OEM without issue... I haven't done so myself, but as I said, evidentially others have..

for me, the magic limit for online activating is 5. I've re-activated my OEM vista home premium 32 bit 6 times now, the last time the error message came up saying I had to call in because this key had been re-activated online 5 times.

Phoning in was no problem though, I had it activated over the phone in 5 minutes anyways. Wierd thing is, I changed everyhting on my computer, new mobo, video card, everyhting was new except dvd drive and harddrive and vista didnt ask to be re-activated. I just installed the old hard drive with vista on it and it worked like a charm. But I re-installed vista just to be sure and thats when I had to call in lol. As usuall the only question the rep asked was, is this the only computer I have this copy of vista on, I said yes and he happily read away my code.

I have now reinstalled Vista 64 bit OEM from newegg six (6) times, and was not asked to activate by phone. Thought I would, but at this point no. Interesting.

conghelach said:

Have not purchased VISTA and whether or not I will ever purchase it hinges on this issue.

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Oh rubbish. Just like everyone else you'll end up using it (or its eventual successor) sooner or later, so why even bother with the 'big statements'?


Anyways, Vista OEM is subject to the exact same restrictions as XP OEM. Legally it's an "only ever on the original machine" license, which means you can't legally use it after a motherboard change, just the same as XP OEM. Practically, end-users who purchase standalone System Builder OEM packs will transfer it anyway, and con the call centre into activating it on new motherboards, just the same as they did with XP OEM.

I "whilst" a word?

Is, and yes, it is. Old proper (Middle) English but yes, it's a word. British folk that I chat with use it several times a day so, over yonder it's quite popular, whilst here in the US it's not quite as popular in our daily lexicon. HA!

Whilst

Ok, that's what I thought, I know our UK friends use it a lot, but haven't heard it much from my Aussie friends.

Almost never hear it from North Americans