NEC LCD2690

SKillbill said:
@ ToastyX and Tamlin_WSGF

Your brightness/luminance quarelling was needless. :D

Read the original english PRAD-Report (not the dreadful Google-Translation):

*click*


cheers *burp*
Click to expand...

Quarraling was needless anyway. It just turns ugly in the end. Difference of opinion thats all. Thanks for bringing the link in English, I hadn't seen it arrive. :)

Looking good in English too! :D
 
Chippy said:
You are not really suggesting that picture #1 is acceptable are you? Its *dreadful*.
Click to expand...
Well, although in an entirely different price category (and technology), my BenQ FP241W has even worse backlight bleeding (cloudy-ish cast when viewing a black background).
But what interests me more is why PRAD was so thrilled about the 2690's uniform intensity and moreover, seeing as you're an Eizo S2411W owner (another monitor which also has my attention), why PRAD and numerous German-speaking forum members over at PRAD's forums have complained about the S2x11W's non-uniformity but few have noted such problems on [H]...? Do you think that you could post a pic of your S2411W with black background (enhanced by Pshop, if necessary) please?
 
Brightness homogeneity is not so obvious to see with the naked eye, transitions are smooth. You have to measure with a calibration device to see it, every monitor is different and crt have this issue also.

This becomes a problem for color critical work.

Regards,

Tarc
 
Traveller said:
Well, although in an entirely different price category (and technology), my BenQ FP241W has even worse backlight bleeding (cloudy-ish cast when viewing a black background).
But what interests me more is why PRAD was so thrilled about the 2690's uniform intensity and moreover, seeing as you're an Eizo S2411W owner (another monitor which also has my attention), why PRAD and numerous German-speaking forum members over at PRAD's forums have complained about the S2x11W's non-uniformity but few have noted such problems on [H]...? Do you think that you could post a pic of your S2411W with black background (enhanced by Pshop, if necessary) please?
Click to expand...

According to this guy, Eizo Germany confirmed that its a build related flaw that the left side is brighter then the right. Its supposedly caused by the U-Shaped CCFL. If this is true, then it applies to the S2411W as well, which also have a U-Shaped CCFL. This might explain all the reports about it too (in addition to the prad.de review pointing it out for them).
 
I have the S2410 which is almost the same as the S2411 and indeed it is a little brighter on the left side but not with total black background but with dark colored backgrounds like my darkgreen at the moment.

But if you look at the whole picture (figuratively speaking) its a very very nice S-PVA TFT from Samsung which Eizo took out the best of it, even for gaming and video watching.

I work with colors and I think that most people who complain about that don't even do.

The great thing about this monitor is the great contrast and lack of seeing the raster which I hate the most.

Can't do without this monitor and enjoy every single day switching it on.

I come from a supurbe Eizo crt so that should say something.

Getting a little bored with talking about the specs please go and see for yourselves I advice.

I know that is difficult but try as hard as you can to inspect an Eizo S2411 than you all forget about the little spec minors.

A friend Designer also works with this one and is very happy with it.

See also for some S2411 pics: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1180814
 
Travbomb any news?

Quote:
Originally Posted by p-n-p
Will the "30 in the works" be a 90 series ? Any new news?
Quote:
Yes it will be a 90 series so all of the features will be in the 30 that are in the others. No real news yet. I just know they are creating a single input that can be split into two sreens. I will check on monday for any other info.
 
Youri Carma said:
I have the S2410 which is almost the same as the S2411 and indeed it is a little brighter on the left side but not with total black background but with dark colored backgrounds like my darkgreen at the moment.

But if you look at the whole picture (figuratively speaking) its a very very nice S-PVA TFT from Samsung which Eizo took out the best of it, even for gaming and video watching.
Click to expand...

Thanks. People seem to have left out this information in the S2411 thread even upon direct questions about image shifts and image consistency, while at Prad.de they seem more open about this.
The whole point with these specs discussions is to get information out I hope. Thats why I appreciate ToastyX's effort though I disagree upon some of his generalisations. Eyeballing a screen yourself is important, but some of the issues doesn't appear at once.
There has been a lot of talk already about panel uniformity and such, though mostly focused on the uniformity of black, not the uniformity of brightness and color.
Chippy has gone pretty hard out against NEC towards uniformity of black and quality control, while speaking nothing about Eizo's problems with uniformity of color intensity/gamma distribution/brightness distribution/image shifts, where NEC's quality control picked up and introduced colorcomp and H-IPS.
Point is: You can get a NEC with near "perfect" uniformity of black and brightness (like mine), but you'll always get an Eizo with non-uniform brightness and gamma distribution (unless you buy the IPS based CG series). Thats quality control for ya!
No screen on the market today is perfect, including the NEC who have had its issues with sound and such, and both the NEC and the Eizo have its strengths and weaknesses. Deeper black and higher contrast on the Eizo for starters, better brightness/gamma/color uniformity on the NEC. Its ok to point out the strengths and weaknesses, so each can choose for their own needs. Going like this:

... unless you get a bad one, which you might well because the quality control doesn't seem to be that great.
Click to expand...

Only pisses me off!
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
...but you'll always get an Eizo with non-uniform brightness and gamma distribution (unless you buy the IPS based CG series)...
Click to expand...
I'm going to assume by your statement that the CG series does not use the same, U-shaped CCFL backlighting and that's why you noted it (& not 'cause it uses an IPS panel) ... right?
 
Traveller said:
I'm going to assume by your statement that the CG series does not use the same, U-shaped CCFL backlighting and that's why you noted it (& not 'cause it uses an IPS panel) ... right?
Click to expand...

Not because it uses an IPS panel (thats to seperate more clearly the CE CG from the CE CE), but because it has Digital Uniformity Compensation. The ColorEdge CE series and the Flexscan series doesn't have that (which also includes the Flexscan L (IPS) series). :)

Edit: The Eizo CE240W/CE210W also have reports on left side being brighter then the right side, but I don't recall them using the U-shaped CCFL.
 
I have a question on the expanded color space. If I work in Photoshop with this expanded color space and the finished picture is seen on a monitor that does not have the expanded color space, is there a possibility that the picture (a colorful head shot portrait) could look disfigured (out of color range) because it can not see the expanded color pallet that I used? I presume it will use the nearest color that it has in its pallet.
 
Rembrandt said:
I have a question on the expanded color space. If I work in Photoshop with this expanded color space and the finished picture is seen on a monitor that does not have the expanded color space, is there a possibility that the picture (a colorful head shot portrait) could look disfigured (out of color range) because it can not see the expanded color pallet that I used? I presume it will use the nearest color that it has in its pallet.
Click to expand...

Definetly. sRGB are the lowest common color space. If you want everyone to see "the same" regardless of screen, you'd better convert it to sRGB before publishing. Outside of coloraware applications, the image will be washed out.

link

RGB vs. sRGB debate

However, if you want to print that colorful portrait on an RGB capable printer and the picture is converted to sRGB, then it will look washed out. The 2690 have a sRGB preset which gives you an option to also use it with sRGB if needed. They don't provide you with a sRGB .icc profile, unfortunately and you cannot hardware calibrate the sRGB (only through video LUT as most screens), so you need to make your own profile, go without profile or use a generic one.
 
Thank you Tamlin. This helps me considerably. I would have to have two viewing settings to make this monitor work.
 
Rembrandt said:
Thank you Tamlin. This helps me considerably I would have to have two viewing settings to make this monitor work.
Click to expand...

You're welcome! :)

Yes, to get the most out of this screen, you should use 2 sets of profiles since it has the ability to use 2 color space instead of just 1. I use Spyder2pro with its LUT loader, so I can switch profiles on the fly.

Currently, I'm working with some brochures for my company with pictures in RGB for print and the same images for our webpage in sRGB. Works like a charm!

If you have any more questions, then fire away! :D
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
Thanks. People seem to have left out this information in the S2411 thread even upon direct questions about image shifts and image consistency, while at Prad.de they seem more open about this.
The whole point with these specs discussions is to get information out I hope. Thats why I appreciate ToastyX's effort though I disagree upon some of his generalisations. Eyeballing a screen yourself is important, but some of the issues doesn't appear at once.
There has been a lot of talk already about panel uniformity and such, though mostly focused on the uniformity of black, not the uniformity of brightness and color.
Chippy has gone pretty hard out against NEC towards uniformity of black and quality control, while speaking nothing about Eizo's problems with uniformity of color intensity/gamma distribution/brightness distribution/image shifts, where NEC's quality control picked up and introduced colorcomp and H-IPS.
Point is: You can get a NEC with near "perfect" uniformity of black and brightness (like mine), but you'll always get an Eizo with non-uniform brightness and gamma distribution (unless you buy the IPS based CG series). Thats quality control for ya!
No screen on the market today is perfect, including the NEC who have had its issues with sound and such, and both the NEC and the Eizo have its strengths and weaknesses. Deeper black and higher contrast on the Eizo for starters, better brightness/gamma/color uniformity on the NEC. Its ok to point out the strengths and weaknesses, so each can choose for their own needs. Going like this:



Only pisses me off!
Click to expand...
Well that's ok but the problem is that not everyone has the same honesty so that makes it difficult to compare opnions. The only way you can have some usefull opinion is in a next to next monitor test which is also colored by the speaker but at least he or she can spot the diffirences between the monitors which is much more usefull.

And also people talking about accurate colors but if you are realy in the business you know that if you send your PDF for example a magazine you never get the colors which you want! Not many people realize that.

If you print on your own Epson (for example) its 100% more accurate. But even than you can compansate the deviance in color by callibrating your scanner or printer to your monitor. If you get experienced in printing you know what to expect.

But your right there is no monitor perfect but with CRT yo had the problem that colors change with temperatures and age which tou don't have with TFT at least not with temperatures so in that way TFT is better.
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
Not really, with the NEC you at least have a chance of getting a uniform panel, with the Eizo, you don't.
Click to expand...

Why do you keep going on about the Eizo?

This is an NEC 2690 thread. The guy said you can't fail to be happy with a new 2690, and I said, "unless you are unlucky and get a crap one" (or words to that effect). A reasonable comment, given the problems widely reported.

Chip

(FWIW, I also own a Viewsonic, Sharp and Philips LCD's, so if you feel the need to attack me, perhaps you would like to start throwing some of those manufacturers into the hat. Please don't.)
 
Well I just wanted to answer somebodies question.

What I said before about colors-printing counts for every TFT.
 
Chippy said:
Why do you keep going on about the Eizo?

This is an NEC 2690 thread. The guy said you can't fail to be happy with a new 2690, and I said, "unless you are unlucky and get a crap one" (or words to that effect). A reasonable comment, given the problems widely reported.
Click to expand...

Your pattern here has become about trolling the thread with negative remards about the NEC. You don't have the NEC, are not in the market of getting another screen, since you already chose the Eizo and are now just trying to justify you choosing the Eizo over the NEC by bashing the NEC.
Its not a reasonable comment when its given in the spirit of trolling. You were trying to turn Alexg's post into something negative about the NEC, like you tried in your post before about widegamut and sRGB (though you already knew that the NEC can be dummifed to sRGB if needed, after numerous posts about it in this thread and also in my post to you in your own thread), and your attack towards Juradis on his reactions of the backlight pictures.

I suggest you go back to the thread you created about the Eizo S2411W and inform them of the problems and quality issues of the screen you have, instead of recycling the old ones found in this thread about the NEC.

You can start off by telling them that they can never get a uniform panel with the Eizo. It will always have uneven gamma, brightness and color distribution due to its "build quality". Then you can continue with image shifts and other problems. Traveller asked you a question btw. about the uniformity of the Eizo...

Here is to get you started:
Put these in your favorite translator:
http://www.prad.de/board/board.php?boardid=212
http://www.prad.de/board/board.php?boardid=255

I have more from French and Spanish forums as well if needed.

Should keep you occupied.
 
Youri Carma said:
Well that's ok but the problem is that not everyone has the same honesty so that makes it difficult to compare opnions. The only way you can have some usefull opinion is in a next to next monitor test which is also colored by the speaker but at least he or she can spot the diffirences between the monitors which is much more usefull.
Click to expand...

Everyone is colored in one way or the other, either by preferences or by their own experiences. This I agree upon. Comparisons in itself can also turn into a "pissing contest" which also is bad. Discussions about what a screen can do and what it cannot do, its strenghts and weaknesses can be good, since it allows a person to choose a screen according to what strenghts he's looking for. :)


And also people talking about accurate colors but if you are realy in the business you know that if you send your PDF for example a magazine you never get the colors which you want! Not many people realize that.

If you print on your own Epson (for example) its 100% more accurate. But even than you can compansate the deviance in color by callibrating your scanner or printer to your monitor. If you get experienced in printing you know what to expect.
Click to expand...

Yes, the accuracy of the color is often determined by the weakest link. Common color space and proper color managment makes this easier. Any convertions can and usually will cause degration of the working material. This is also one of the advantages of the 2690 (read the prad.de review and how the 2690 scored with working on print material and softproofing).

Eizo also speaks of this. Here's an image from CG221
color_management.jpg
They also speak how important color/brightness uniformity is and their tech implementet in the CG series to heighten the brightness uniformity. Kinda like colorcomp. These are the important specs to discuss. What a monitor can do and what it cannot do. You know that the NEC doesn't cover the whole aRGB as the CG221 does, but you might want to know what it means in practical applications. Its nice to know then that the NEC forfilled the UGRA criteria as shown in the prad.de review.

Its also important that people like ToastyX gives a test on screens for their strenghts and weaknesses to bring out and check what the reviews doesn't say.

People like you, who brings light upon whats important in certain tasks are nice addition to a thread.

People who are in here just for the thrill of bashing, I can do without.


But your right there is no monitor perfect but with CRT yo had the problem that colors change with temperatures and age which tou don't have with TFT at least not with temperatures so in that way TFT is better.
Click to expand...

True, the yellowing of old CRT's are at least a thing of the past. My Iiyama CRT still holds up, but it depends on how long. TFT's can do the job in many areas. In the end, it always depends on the final user and the users personal preferences.

To all NEC 2690 users:
THERE IS A NEW GAMMACOMP PROGRAM OUT WITH SUPPORT FOR 12-BIT!!!! Finally!!!!
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
Your pattern here has become about trolling the thread with negative remards about the NEC. You don't have the NEC, are not in the market of getting another screen, since you already chose the Eizo and are now just trying to justify you choosing the Eizo over the NEC by bashing the NEC.
Its not a reasonable comment when its given in the spirit of trolling. You were trying to turn Alexg's post into something negative about the NEC, like you tried in your post before about widegamut and sRGB (though you already knew that the NEC can be dummifed to sRGB if needed, after numerous posts about it in this thread and also in my post to you in your own thread), and your attack towards Juradis on his reactions of the backlight pictures.

I suggest you go back to the thread you created about the Eizo S2411W and inform them of the problems and quality issues of the screen you have, instead of recycling the old ones found in this thread about the NEC.

You can start off by telling them that they can never get a uniform panel with the Eizo. It will always have uneven gamma, brightness and color distribution due to its "build quality". Then you can continue with image shifts and other problems. Traveller asked you a question btw. about the uniformity of the Eizo...

Here is to get you started:
Put these in your favorite translator:
http://www.prad.de/board/board.php?boardid=212
http://www.prad.de/board/board.php?boardid=255

I have more from French and Spanish forums as well if needed.

Should keep you occupied.
Click to expand...

There you go again. Going on about Eizo again. You just can't stop going on about it can you. Frankly I can't even be arsed to read the links you post. I couldn't give a toss about how the Eizo comes out in reviews. This is an LCD2690 thread for christs sake.

Chip
 
Please start a topic about comparing and complaining about Eizo and NEC and leave this topic alone. You can have the new topic all to yourself.
 
Rembrandt said:
Please start a topic about comparing and complaining about Eizo and NEC and leave this topic alone. You can have the new topic all to yourself.
Click to expand...

I agree. Personally, I am not very interested in comparisons between the two, but if someone is, then another thread would be the place to do it.

Chip
 
Chippy said:
Because I am interested. Is that OK?

Chip
Click to expand...
interested in what? You have an EIZO and you don't have any intention to buy this NEC.
You are not interested in comparison.....so?
Maybe interested in argument with Tamlin?
 
sosrah said:
interested in what? You have an EIZO and you don't have any intention to buy this NEC.
You are not interested in comparison.....so?
Maybe interested in argument with Tamlin?
Click to expand...

Eh? I wasn't arguing with anyone. I am interested in computer stuff and like to read the forums, or is that not allowed under your rules? Not that you make the rules.

Chip
 
Chippy said:
...not very interested in comparisons between the two...
Click to expand...
Somehow I feel responsible for this little outburst of opinions because I am interested in both monitors in question and thus I asked a few questions in both Chip's original S2411W post as well as this thread.

Sorry about causing such a stir but I (and hopefully others) did get some useful info out of the exchange!

(always look on the bright side of life... ;))
 
Chippy said:
Eh? I wasn't arguing with anyone. I am interested in computer stuff and like to read the forums, or is that not allowed under your rules? Not that you make the rules.

Chip
Click to expand...

Anyone can read the forums. Sosrah never claimed he makes the rules, Kyle Bennett does however and you should read them. Going into the thread just to bash on the NEC would be a violation of his rules: (1)Flaming (of NEC) and (4)thread crapping.

I gave you those links, so you can spend time in your own thread "informing" whomever who wants to listen about the "build quality" of the Eizo S2411W. People might be more interested in hearing why they never can get a uniform brightness/color/gamma on the S2411W then you bashing the build quality of the NEC which you don't even own.

I'm done discussing this with you. If you continue coming in here creating a negative spirit with your bashing of the NEC, I'll resort to the "report post" button.

I'm here to discuss the different aspects of the NEC, answer questions if someone wants me to test something out or wonders about something and share experiences with the screen. The NEC 2690WUXi is a great screen with lots of features to discuss and I have even learned about how it will perform if I get a PS3 (which I have wondered about) thanks to ToastyX. Reading about you, who don't even have this screen or are considering buying it, crapping on this great screen I can do without.
 
Traveller said:
Somehow I feel responsible for this little outburst of opinions because I am interested in both monitors in question and thus I asked a few questions in both Chip's original S2411W post as well as this thread.

Sorry about causing such a stir but I (and hopefully others) did get some useful info out of the exchange!

(always look on the bright side of life... ;))
Click to expand...

Its not really your fault. He started pissing me off with his crapping on the NEC long before your post. Its pretty common also that there is a comparison between screens in such posts, so no biggie. I'll answer the questions you have on my NEC at least, so bring'em on!:cool:

PS, my favorite Monty Python song! (...other things just make you swear and curse...) :p
 
This has turned into nothing but a bitch session. Tamlin, you are as bad as them now. Could this thread please get back to talking about the product that this thread was intended for: Discussion about the NEC 2690. Please take all other ideas into a new thread and get the chips off your shoulders.
 
Rembrandt said:
This has turned into nothing but a bitch session. Tamlin, you are as bad as them now. Could this thread please get back to talking about the product that this thread was intended for: Discussion about the NEC 2690. Please take all other ideas into a new thread and get the chips off your shoulders.
Click to expand...

My chip(py) is off my shoulders now! :D I'll just resort to the report post from now on.

Fire away if you have any questions about the NEC! :cool:
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
Anyone can read the forums. Sosrah never claimed he makes the rules, Kyle Bennett does however and you should read them. Going into the thread just to bash on the NEC would be a violation of his rules: (1)Flaming (of NEC) and (4)thread crapping.

I gave you those links, so you can spend time in your own thread "informing" whomever who wants to listen about the "build quality" of the Eizo S2411W. People might be more interested in hearing why they never can get a uniform brightness/color/gamma on the S2411W then you bashing the build quality of the NEC which you don't even own.

I'm done discussing this with you. If you continue coming in here creating a negative spirit with your bashing of the NEC, I'll resort to the "report post" button.

I'm here to discuss the different aspects of the NEC, answer questions if someone wants me to test something out or wonders about something and share experiences with the screen. The NEC 2690WUXi is a great screen with lots of features to discuss and I have even learned about how it will perform if I get a PS3 (which I have wondered about) thanks to ToastyX. Reading about you, who don't even have this screen or are considering buying it, crapping on this great screen I can do without.
Click to expand...
.
I don't know why you are so defensive of ANY criticism of the 2690, but time and time again if anyone says one bad word against it, there you are - defending it to the hilt.

Perhaps if you weren't so blatantly biased, it would make it easier for people like me to take a more neutral stance.

Chip
 
Commentary about the Eizo in comparison with the NEC product is totally appropriate on this thread and most readers are very interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this. Even Tamlin's thoughts as biased and self serving as they may be.

I have to agree with Chip here regarding Tamilin's behavior and penchant for anger. Tamlin acts like a shill for NEC and all reading this thread know that. Everything he says has to be taken with a grain of salt. He was making representations about the 2690 long before it was released or he ever owned one. He resorts to name calling of reviewers, insulting those he does not agree with and labeling anyone who contradicts him as a troll. Then he has the audacity to state some site rules regarding board behavior like he is the royal internet policeman; even though he is the largest offender of demeaning behavior. Let's move on and just discuss the products without all the theatrics.
 
I completely disagree I have been following this thread for sometime and found Tamlin`s observations on the monitor to be both fair and factual.
 
Chippy: In case you actually don't understand the difference and thus my objections to it, I'll explain once more:
ToastyX is criticing. He reports his positive and negative findings with his screen as the testing goes along. Like his lag test on the screen. His findings didn't check out with Aquila76's findings, so the information needed to be validated. We discussed why the different results, and I also presented links with information that supported his findings. Thus, the 2690 most probably have an input lag of about 2 frames. His tests with tearing at 480P have not been disputed here or in other forums (not validated either) and he has shown evidence of this. Since I haven't tested it myself (I don't have a PS3 either), then there have been no reason for me to comment against it. I'm not defensive of ANY critisism of the 2690 as you say. I actually like to read ToastyX's tests, both his negative and positive critisism and I find it constructive for me and other potential users when he tests what the NEC can do and what it cannot do.

You, who don't have the NEC and are not a potential buyer either, enters the thread with negative remarks. Not nessesarily my posts (many of them occured when I was preoccupied with work), but ANY post. You're not entering new information to the thread and its not even your own experience you are refering to. Just negative remarks and recycling of old information. This is bashing, not critisism, and thats what I react upon. Its really not constructive and makes a negative spirit in the thread we can do without. I don't know if you actually feel you are contributing something constructive with this, but please stop with it and lets continue talking about the NEC, both positive and negative. What it can do and what it cannot do. Our argument just ruin the thread for others and I don't think anyone of us really wants this argument. :)

Interceptor:
Of course you agree with Chip. I'm not suprised either that you came into the thread again after these months just to tell that. Anyone who looks through your previous posts know why. I actually laughed (honestly!) when I saw you came in the thread just for this post.

neil.t said:
I completely disagree I have been following this thread for sometime and found Tamlin`s observations on the monitor to be both fair and factual.
Click to expand...

Thank you! :) If I disagree upon a statement of the NEC, I show links and evidence of the contraré. If I find them to be correct, I say so even if they are negative.

Aquila76:
I haven't been able to test it yet, since I've had some troubles installing it due to its monitor drivers. It states in the review file:

"GammaComp adjusts the display monitor's internal 10 or 12-bit (depending on the monitor model) gamma Look-Up-Table, allowing various custom display gamma or Tone-Response-Curves to be achieved. Because the gamma compensation is done internally to the display at 10 or 12-bit resolution, the drawbacks of using the 8-bit Look-Up-Tables in the video graphics adapter can be eliminated. The 10/12-bit resolution provides 4 times as many levels as 8-bit, so color banding problems that occur when using 8-bit tables can be reduced."

In the old one, 1.3.10, they only spoke of 10-bit.

But, as you say, the rest shows a max of 0-1023 per RGB, which is 10-bit for custom gamma curves. I'll see for myself when I get it installed and will post my findings here. (If not someone else beat me to it).
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
I'm not defensive of ANY critisism of the 2690 as you say.
Click to expand...

Just stating this does not make it true Tamlin. The reality is you ARE intolerant of criticism.

Time and time again you are praising the wonderful qualities of the 2690, glossing over its weaknesses and ridiculing other products that are better in some areas. Its quite painful reading your posts most of the time.

I am not an argumentitive bloke by nature, but boy you certainly bring out the worst in me. You'd do well to think on why the adverse reaction from me and others. Of course its possible that its nothing to do with you and we are all idiots. But perhaps not.

Chip
 
Chippy said:
Just stating this does not make it true Tamlin. The reality is you ARE intolerant of criticism.

Time and time again you are praising the wonderful qualities of the 2690, glossing over its weaknesses and ridiculing other products that are better in some areas. Its quite painful reading your posts most of the time.

I am not an argumentitive bloke by nature, but boy you certainly bring out the worst in me. You'd do well to think on why the adverse reaction from me and others. Of course its possible that its nothing to do with you and we are all idiots. But perhaps not.

Chip
Click to expand...

Chippy can you seriously quit being such a whiny baby. The fact of the matter is Tamlin is actually contributing to the thread were as you are not. I think in your last 10 posts or so on this thread you have added absolutely nothing.

I created this thread a long time ago and for quite some time it has been extremely useful in getting to the bottom of the initial 2690 flaws, getting units properly reparied, and also talking about reviews and end user tests. I would very much appreciate if we could keep the thread being a useful tool rather then a bickering session especially from seomoen who does not have one or want to buy one.
 
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