ATI Radeon HD 2900 XT @ [H]

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I baught a GTX late in it's run (only three months ago) and boy am I glad I didn't wait for the R600.

/me hugs my 8800GTX. :D :D :D
 
I'm disappointed AMD missed the party, but these things are out of my budget, anyway. Further, DX10 is what I am concerned about, I am waiting simply on the principle.

I'll see how the mid range cards face off on something like Crysis, and maybe look out for revisions. I'm hoping for an 8600/HD2600 with 256-bit memory buses. Otherwise, it looks like I am just going to skip this GPU generation all together. The high end is just too expensive for me (though 8800GTS 320MBs look real tasty) and the midrange only looks passable at best.

Great review, though. I would have liked to see some examples on how this thing performed on XP vs. Vista, though. XP is certainly the platform of choice, but a demonstration would have been nice.
 
devil_trigger said:
First off I have to say that I bet nV just sold thousands upon thousands more G80's with reviews like this lol.:p

Now on to what I have to contribute. I have a Bad Axe 2, so what I actually want to see is 2900XT CrossFire vs. a single 8800GTX(what I currently have), since my mobo can only dual dual cards in the form of CrossFire. I plan on getting a 24" monitor very soon with 1920x1200 res so maybe the 2900XT will be better there. Also about CrossFire and the 2900XT, I dont care about power usage and all that, I just want raw performance as I dont pay for electricity, and I use dual PSU's so I probably dont have to worry about a PSU problem(might even put the Aux Hiper psu in another machine and get a different Aux PSU for my system).
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Big downside to using 2900 XT CF in the Bad Axe 2 board......the internal CF cables are not long enough to space the cards into the x16 slots on each end so you have to have the cards next to each other. This gives you one card pulling heat right off the card beside it. Giving up to an ambient + 20F intake temperature on the card. Bad for fan speeds as it cycles up and down even at idle, very annoying. Bad for power consumption due to leakage at higher temps. CF will heat up your office really quick. We had exhaust temperatures up to 181F under stress conditions.
 
Flexmaster said:
Even I think this and the only reason I think so is because you guys flat out call the x2900xt a flop, I don't think that is fair especially since the card has just launched, performance could also improve with new drivers and DX10 games have yet to be tested. So calling it a "flop" is a bit premature don't you think.

BTW I own a EVGA 7900GT currently in my system, I don't want to be labeled as a fanboy.
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So wait... if you call the FX5800 a flop, you're an ATI fanboy?
 
AMD cant beat the G80GTS640 6 months after it is released. LOL.

I bought a GTS320 104 days ago. No reason to regret that at this point. Nice try AMD. Come again when you learn to play in the big league again.
 
Let's not start with all the childish comments please. You will just be banned for them from here out, no warnings.
 
just the fact that you don't even test any games where the hd2900xt outperforms 8800gtx seems a little odd, i guess you haven't had a chance to get tho those, or maybe you just chose not to get to them , could be either
 
Sweet sweet [H] goodness haven't even read the review yet
 
bobrownik said:
this review seems awfully nvidia biased, make sure you read other reviews before you draw your own conclusions
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LawGiver said:
see im the only one who thinks this.
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Flexmaster said:
Even I think this and the only reason I think so is because you guys flat out call the x2900xt a flop, I don't think that is fair especially since the card has just launched, performance could also improve with new drivers and DX10 games have yet to be tested. So calling it a "flop" is a bit premature don't you think.

BTW I own a EVGA 7900GT currently in my system, I don't want to be labeled as a fanboy.
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This is the kind of fanATIc crap that I had hoped would finally cease with a real review, especially when noted fanATIc CR|Constantine had the personal integrity to suck it up and admit defeat, but of course, no such luck.

To paraphrase Prince, "This it what it sounds like, when fanbois cry..."

Oh, and @ CR|Constantine, I tip my hat in respect--you showed manhood on what was undoubtedly a dark day for you...
 
I love ATI I call it a flop because the bang for the buck is not there like it should be I could spend 50 bucks less and get a card that is only a little slower... I really had hopes for the card so I could see some competition. now I am going to have to wait patiently for the 2600XT and probably get one of those instead...

*still crying*
 
LostInRehab said:
If there is one thing ati can take from the HD 2900 to their next high end card it will be the memory subsystem. That thing looks like its a beast. Add some good gddr3 1000 memory or even faster gddr4 memory and the performance looks unspeakable. I really don't see a reason to devote more time on their memory subsytem. Maybe this means that they can focus all efforts on the gpu next round >.>.
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One of the things I love about the R600 it is the memory subsystem, I agree that the thing is a beast. It has tremendous potential, it just needs a GPU that can feed it properly. Right now the entire thing seems unbalanced.

bobrownik said:
just the fact that you don't even test any games where the hd2900xt outperforms 8800gtx seems a little odd, i guess you haven't had a chance to get tho those, or maybe you just chose not to get to them , could be either
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What games would that be?
 
bobrownik said:
just the fact that you don't even test any games where the hd2900xt outperforms 8800gtx seems a little odd, i guess you haven't had a chance to get tho those, or maybe you just chose not to get to them , could be either
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Well we don't choose game tests on who we think the winner is, we choose games tests based on several criteria. We first look to see if the game has had large sales. We also look to see that it is somewhat current although popularity can push this out some, point in case WoW. WoW is a bit old for our testing, but still has such a big user base that we think testing it is of value to our readers. Once games get to where they are not challenge for today's top end single card configurations, we try to move onto a game that is more challenging for the hardware. There are a couple of games that I would like to see gone from our testing, but the newer games have not appeared to replace them, like UT3 and Crysis.
 
bobrownik said:
just the fact that you don't even test any games where the hd2900xt outperforms 8800gtx seems a little odd, i guess you haven't had a chance to get tho those, or maybe you just chose not to get to them , could be either
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Uhh... They're absolutely the same games that [H] has been benchmarking cards for the last half year or so. They used the same ones for the 8600GTS and didn't consider that a success either. Where were all of you then?
 
Kiggles said:
I would have liked to see some examples on how this thing performed on XP vs. Vista, though. XP is certainly the platform of choice, but a demonstration would have been nice.
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Yeah, put me down for that too. I've got some commitments that have me running Vista so I'm more than a little curious about that. I know people have been avoiding Vista for gaming. Ironicly in no small part due to nVidia's drivers :rolleyes: although they certainly aren't the only driver issues for Vista. But the reason I'm still in the market for a card is because of that spotty Vista support from nVidia.
 
I have a question here...

In BF2142 testings 2048x1536 on X2900XT AA was set to 2... and you guys stated that anything higher than 4 was unplayable... doesn't this clearly shows Drivers problems?

Mentioning this in your conclusion would have been nice..... :rolleyes:
 
Is anyone else really just looking forward to the 2600? I am, plus this is kinda shitty since this cards being compared to another card with 5 months worth of driver updates.
 
Excellent review as usual guys. I can only imagine what all the fanboys are saying now that reliable reviews are in. Lmao, time to start digging up posts ;)
 
Flexmaster said:
Don't get me wrong I liked the review it was very detailed with a lot of Facts, but IMO saying that a product is a flop is a bit unprofessional its like making a decision for us, when we should be taking in all the facts and make our own opinions.
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We ARE making OUR opinions based on the facts presented to us atm. It's called a forum! The facts are not in that they called it a flop, but the charts that have been presented. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a card 7 months late to the market, which underperforms IS A FLOP!

Glow said:
I am, plus this is kinda shitty since this cards being compared to another card with 5 months worth of driver updates.
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So wait a sec... Now it's Nvidia's fault for putting it out 7 months earlier?
 
bobrownik said:
just the fact that you don't even test any games where the hd2900xt outperforms 8800gtx seems a little odd, i guess you haven't had a chance to get tho those, or maybe you just chose not to get to them , could be either
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best comment of this thread by far...lol all i have to say is, the facts speak for themselves.
 
Nice review. I went ahead and purchased an HD 2900xt. It seems to have some tech advantages over the 8800GTS for dx10 games once they come out. I really don't care about the current gen games, I would have kept my x1900xt 512..A little more time the drivers should be a lot better also.
 
Flexmaster said:
Don't get me wrong I liked the review it was very detailed with a lot of Facts, but IMO saying that a product is a flop is a bit unprofessional its like making a decision for us, when we should be taking in all the facts and make our own opinions.
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They can only draw a conclusion from what they're given. You can expect people to wait and hope that drivers turn the card around, and it could happen, sure - But [H] have no way of knowing what could happen. They give their opinion on the product just as anyone reviewing anything else does - They have presented the numbers and the information that they have found and gathered up in the best way they can, and in their conclusion they sum it up - Just as they should.

There is really nothing [H] can do - Would you prefer them not to review the card and simply leave the page with a technical overview of the card, then wait until it is no longer receiving driver updates?

The conclusion they came to that the card is a flop is supported by the results that they show on their graphs - If you can't agree with the conclusion they draw from those results, which are pretty telling, then you can't agree with the data that they provide.
 
Flexmaster said:
True I agree but shouldn't you just present the facts and let us decide what we think of them so we can make our own opinions.
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No, we are here to share our opinions and that is what our site has been valued for over the last 10 years. If you want facts without opinion, I would say Beyond 3D would be more your speed.

http://www.beyond3d.com/content/reviews/16

If you don't want our opinions, for god's sake don't read anything we write.
 
markt435 said:
best comment of this thread by far...lol all i have to say is, the facts speak for themselves.
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Still waiting on that list of games where they outperform the 8800s. Someone asked for it some pages back, and no one posted it.
 
Flexmaster said:
sometime down the road even if performance changes, and or DX10 games perform better.
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Did you read the drivers section on Conclusion - Part 1? We covered the possibility of drivers bettering performance in the future.

No one is forcing you to make any decisions, these are our opinions and experiences based on evaluation that we have conducted that is proofed by our tables/graphs and screenshots. This is the experience that you will receive today with this video card. This is what we do, if that doesn't suite you there are plenty of other websites.
 
Brent_Justice said:
What games would that be?
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well , the 2900xt isn't a match for 8800gtx so there probably aren't any , i meant to say gts,
im pretty sure there are a bunch, where it will outperform the gts640, give me the card for a few weeks and i'll find them for you ...


i used to be a fanATIc, even though i dislike nvidia and ati equally now, this review still seems biased,
 
0mega said:
i know it sucked, but the A64 was pretty damn nifty. the core 2 is a P3 on steroids IIRC, im hoping they do something magical with the new chips...

1178941045mh7ld2qvcw55lmw6.png


Brent, you wanted to know if we saw anything different... that tree is missing parts on the 2900



Honestly, if you hadn't realized, [H] does things much differently than everyone else (except bit tech :p theyre pretty damn close, hence why [H] and B-T are they only two i trust. ) everyone else uses apples to apples comparisons. the [H] crew use Apples to Oranges, or rather Bananas in this case. as the settings achieved at an acceptable frame rate are way different

with the [H], it isn't FPS, its quality. all the FPS are right near each other, but the image quality changes.

it weeds out inefficiencies in certain things, like AA processing, AF filtering, and how a card can cope with things like high resolution.
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that is the most ridiculous and subjective and anti-empirical rationale i have yet been exposed to. in fact, the closest thing that sounds like is a term called 'cherry picking.' this is a concept applied when an author aims to get the results he wants as opposed to what the truth reveals. if this is how you think [h] operates, then it's small wonder why they seem to be the outlier.
wait a second... forget all this and just in the simplest terms explain how something can be better than apples to apples for scientific purposes.

oh, and how long did you look at that pic you posted? i think this took me about 5 seconds to dispute. 4 seconds to figure out the point, then 1 second to rebuttal. i mean it's RIGHT THERE lol

allday.png
 
Vlad_13 said:
I have a question here...

In BF2142 testings 2048x1536 on X2900XT AA was set to 2... and you guys stated that anything higher than 4 was unplayable... doesn't this clearly shows Drivers problems?

Mentioning this in your conclusion would have been nice..... :rolleyes:
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It clearly shows the card doesn't currently have the performance to allow higher settings at this resolution, higher playable settings that is. Whether a new driver can improve performance in this game or is this all we are ever going to get out of it due to the architecture is completely unknown. I found no bugs in this game.
 
Pathy said:
They can only draw a conclusion from what they're given. You can expect people to wait and hope that drivers turn the card around, and it could happen, sure - But [H] have no way of knowing what could happen. They give their opinion on the product just as anyone reviewing anything else does - They have presented the numbers and the information that they have found and gathered up in the best way they can, and in their conclusion they sum it up - Just as they should.

There is really nothing [H] can do - Would you prefer them not to review the card and simply leave the page with a technical overview of the card, then wait until it is no longer receiving driver updates?

The conclusion they came to that the card is a flop is supported by the results that they show on their graphs - If you can't agree with the conclusion they draw from those results, which are pretty telling, then you can't agree with the data that they provide.
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Honestly if they had said the x2900xt is under performing currently or as of right now the x2900xt is showing disappointing performance or the x2900xt is far from what we expected. I would have agreed with the statement. But saying the product is a "Flop" is like saying it allready failed that there is no hope, that you shouldn't even consider buying it now or down the road, I just think it gives a wrong impression on readers.
 
I'm usually pretty quick to defend AMD, but they just fell right on their nose here. NVIDIA's Vista drivers are finally getting decent, and when I was looking for a midrange card for my SFF box, it was NVIDIA who hit with a low-power high-performance GPU.

My 8600GT was $140, has performance that's better than a 7600GT, excellent image quality, DX10, H.264, dual-DVI, and doesn't even need a PCIe power connector (it in fact draws less power than the much slower X1600 Pro it replaced). When you only have a 250W power supply and a case with 60mm fans, power consumption is something to look at.

AMD is in a world of hurt right now. I love my $65 Athlon 64 X2 3600+ (2.8GHz using a $9 Arctic Cooling Alpine 7 and a $40 ECS GeForce 6100S mobo), but it's bad for AMD. Selling highly-overclockable dual-core 65nm low-power CPUs at Celeron-D prices is certainly one way to win back enthusiasts, but it's absolutely killing AMD's revenue and starving them of cash.

The HD 2900 XT doesn't help. It's not just slower and more expensive, it requires more power. A lot more. Not everyone has an 800W PSU, and not everyone wants the noise, heat, or expense of a 200W GPU. If NVIDIA offers the same (or better) performance at a competitive price, while using vastly less power, they are the hands down winner by any metric.

It doesn't help that the 8800GTS is 6 months old at this point.

ATI/AMD has been behind since the GeForce 6 series. They have been 6 months late to every generation, with cards that often had inferior features, poorer performance, or requried more power. They were late with Shader Model 3.0, late with video decoding acceleration, late with multi-GPU, and late with DX10.

AMD, you need to lead. Being the "other guy" almost killed you back in the K6 days. It almost killed you in the later years of Athlon XP's life. And it's killing you now. Being 6 months late and "as good" is bad. Being 6 months late and inferior is tragic.

I like AMD, but all of my PCs (2 desktops and a notebook) have NVIDIA cards in them. That's the way it's going to stay until AMD can get their act together.

Hopefully the HD 2600 will be better.
 
Wonderful article. I am glad to see the true results.

If the problem lies with the drivers, then is the consumer left out in the cold for months just like Nvidia did? :mad:
People say they are "programming for a new architechture"...its the same thing that was uttered for the 8800 series. The fact is, ATI/AMD do not have that luxury. The marketplace is fickle, and if your late with a hyped product, it better fuckin perform.

I pray we won't have to wait six months to see the this card perform where its supposed to be. By then no one will care about this product anymore.

My stomach hurts just like it did when the FX series launched.
Video Cards are already too high in price. And I doubt we will see too many Nvidia price cuts on the high end either.

I'm glad to hear that you will be revisiting the 2900 in later articles (overclocking was mentioned).

Its a sad day for AMD indeed. They needed a decent high-end product to help sell the real money makers in the mid to low end. Lets hope the 2400 and 2600 sell themselves.
 
bobrownik said:
well , the 2900xt isn't a match for 8800gtx so there probably aren't any , i meant to say gts,
im pretty sure there are a bunch, where it will outperform the gts640, give me the card for a few weeks and i'll find them for you ...


i used to be a fanATIc, even though i dislike nvidia and ati equally now, this review still seems biased,
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ROFL, once you actually have the data in which, and the r600 outperforms the g80, then (and only then) you should carry forward your motion. Was [H] supposed to search for a game in which the r600 outperforms the g80 (if there is one)? It used it's usual suite of games, the SAME one they used for the last half year or so.
 
OUCH!

quote below form Driverheaven...which someone has said already, normally views ATi in a more positive light.

If AMD or its partners can do both the Radeon HD becomes a much more attractive purchase, as it stands now however, we simply cannot recommend this hardware.
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I'm not buying the early driver argument....in a few months time (when you're hoping drivers increase performance), a few other cards, better, and faster will be released by both manufacturers, and you would have had bought this card (2900xt) at a premium at$400.
 
Flexmaster said:
Honestly if they had said the x2900xt is under performing currently or as of right now the x2900xt is showing disappointing performance or the x2900xt is far from what we expected. I would have agreed with the statement. But saying the product is a "Flop" is like saying it allready failed that there is no hope, that you shouldn't even consider buying it now or down the road, I just think it gives a wrong impression on readers.
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Your thoughts are noted.
 
Another great review...

I have always bought what was best when I was buying, Intel, AMD, nVidia, ATI, etc...

[H]'s conclusion appears to be quite accurate. I don't know why ANYONE would purchase one of these considering the price/performance, heat/noise, etc...

The price just gets worse when you need to upgrade to a bigger power supply. A Quality 600 to 1100 W psu depending on your card choices, crossfire, and OC'ing costs good money. Not that it's not well spent but you can definetly get away with less power in the 8800's.

The lower end products will be quite interesting, perhaps they will be outstanding mobile and HTPC chips.

But AMD lost it on the big fish. They just don't have the time to get it out on 65nm apparently and are hoping enough fanboi's and retail noobs pick one up to make a bit of cash back while waiting to do it right.

It's not quite the Itanium of GPU releases but it sure reminds me of the early P4 socket 423 systems. Why bother?
 
good review, a bit short but an awsome explanation of whats included with the entire package, looking forward to future opinions

it seems to fall short in current DX9 games, which I don't care, I haven't yerned for anything faster then my X1900 for what ever has been played, how ever I do look forward to DX10 gaming in the (hopefully!!) near future, keeping my hopes up that it was looking twords to future and not just current games

what this block reminds me of is how intel battled amd with their P4's, throwing more juice at it and not reallying gaining any ground in ... well ... anything other then encoding/decoding. ATi hitting this block early on has no doubt in my mind what made them delay them announcing their product, adding alot of new options on the GPU is cool and all but people have never been the ones to really rely on it getting supported or not (you did mention trueform, that is something I was hoping would be supported)
 
Flexmaster said:
Honestly if they had said the x2900xt is under performing currently or as of right now the x2900xt is showing disappointing performance or the x2900xt is far from what we expected. I would have agreed with the statement. But saying the product is a "Flop" is like saying it allready failed that there is no hope, that you shouldn't even consider buying it now or down the road, I just think it gives a wrong impression on readers.
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So tell me, would you purchase this video card right now over an 8800 GTS or GTX ?
 
Flexmaster said:
Its not that I don't like you opinions quite the opposite I have read countless reviews on your site, and I always respect you opinion and quite often agree with it, but I honestly think that calling a product a flop is a bit too harsh, because when a product is labeled as a flop its labeled as a complete failure with no recovery, in my mind it means don't buy it now or ever. I just think that you guys should have said it performed horribly as of today, or performance was lacking.
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Your thoughts are again noted. Thanks for sharing.
 
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