Vapochill Newbie.. Help!

officermartinez

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
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Well I'm stepping into the world of phase change.. I had my bouts with AIR and obviously hit a wall.. Then I went to Peltier TEC... It was hit and miss.. Then I decided to go with a heavy duty watercooling solution.. I'm not exactly pleased with my overall performance.. So, I purchased a Vapochill LS today.. So, what are some realistic expectations?

Since I had a VERY hard time keeping my QX6700 nice and cool, is it an unreal expectation to have a 24/7 stable overclock to 4ghz?

I intend on selling my Swiftech CPU block but I am keeping my watercooling setup as I plan on purchasing chipset water blocks and keeping them cool under water.. I'd love to hear any thoughts you guys might have.. Any known problems or issues and any solutions would be very welcomed!

(my setup is in my signature below)


VapochillOrdered.jpg
 
That's a lot of money to boost 800mhz more... ? Or am I just crazy? Do you have room to fit that in your case or is it going to be external?
 
No, you're not crazy at all. I do realize that this initial investment is somewhat costly, but hopefully, it will solve my cooling needs.

Oh, BTW, am I going to need to purchase anything else or is it pretty much a straight forward installation / bolt on kit?

It is going to sit underneath my Lian Li PC-7A case.. It is a direct match for that case (and many other Lian Li cases)
 
im not exactly sure what the kit comes with but your probably going to need some more insulation and conformal coating and some RTV sealant for the motherboard and socket, respectively, to guard against condensation. you might have this stuff left over from your pelt setup.
 
From what Ive seen it should come with everything you need and all the instruction to get you going..... Go to Xtremesystems and you should find all the info youll ever need...... Vaporchill is an entry level phase cooler so insulation shouldnt be too difficult......

Though the initial investment is quite big, I think its worth the money cos from now on every cpu you buy will kick ass and you will never need to upgrade..... I would have gone for one of Jinu117 Lian li single stages...... He's one of the best in the business and if you hang around XS enough, youll probably have your vapochill moded by him........

Here's a used one for sale..... http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=137326&highlight=jinu117
 
You might want to do a little research. A stock phase change unit is pretty much worthless for a quad core. There have been reports of people frying the phase change unit with no overclock. Some say never go over 1.4-1.5v on a stock unit or it will fry with a quad. I cant post any links due to rules around here but the information you seek isnt very hard to find on the net. Anyways just trying to give you a heads up before you end up with a broken phase unit. Its not a question of wether or not it will the question is when.
 
Thanks for the input.. I wish vapochill would post something on their website warning of such potential for damage.
 
I read a couple of threads at XS and jr is right, your vapochill will not be able to handle the heatload of a Quad core...... If they havent shipped out your unit, I will cancell your order and give them hell for not letting you aware of this problem.....

If you still want to run phase, I would contact Jinu117 or chilly1 and have them custom make you a unit..... The vapochill will work with your unit as long as you dont overclock your quadcore too much.....
 
Thanks.. The vapochill unit has already been shipped.. I sent Jinu117 on XS.org, a PM.. I'm just waiting for the reply. Hopefully, he can mod the Vapochill unit to handle the load..
 
That's a lot of money to boost 800mhz more... ? Or am I just crazy? Do you have room to fit that in your case or is it going to be external?

Yeah, thats alot of money for 800mhz more, but if he has the money.
Water cooling at 3.2 should be fine since some people are cooling their dual sli 8800's and overclocked c2d's with it so I am not sure what temps the OP wants....
 
uh? hard to cool a quad? no. im getting 46C on water and overclocked at 3.6Ghz. Maybe its just my two 3x120 rads :rolleyes:
 
Its alot easier to cool a quad with water cooling than it it with phase. Most production phase units are desighned to handle a 200 watt heat. A quad can push way over this 200watt heatload. Most water cooling setups are setup to handle triple some times quadruple the amount of rated watts.
 
Thanks for the all of this feedback.. As for the Vapo, I plan to have it modded when it comes in as I intened to be around the 4ghz mark.. I've really sat down and invested 80+ hours of reading on phase change units. Several peeps on Xs.org have their quads between 4.5ghz - 4.8ghz.. That's insane! I would be completely happy with "only" 4ghz.. LOL.

Although this is my hobby, I am pretty serious about achieving this goal. Over the weekend, I picked up a few watercooling things here and there. I still intend on watercooling my GPUs and my chipsets.
 
You might want to send a pm to "runmc" on xs about modding your vapo. He is local, in same state anyway, to you. Do some reading on xs before you send your unit or cash to anyone, some of the "top" builders are having a difficult time getting things done ;)

The vapo ls will handle a quad with a little tuning. Do some research on xs and you may find a local refrigeration guy that would do the tune for you. The problem is not as bad as some people are making it out to be, the units are just tuned for 200w and need to be retuned for a higher load.
 
You might want to send a pm to "runmc" on xs about modding your vapo. He is local, in same state anyway, to you. Do some reading on xs before you send your unit or cash to anyone, some of the "top" builders are having a difficult time getting things done ;)

The vapo ls will handle a quad with a little tuning. Do some research on xs and you may find a local refrigeration guy that would do the tune for you. The problem is not as bad as some people are making it out to be, the units are just tuned for 200w and need to be retuned for a higher load.

Yeah.. I already know. The vapo LS is very capable.. It just needs to be modded. It can handle the quad just fine with a little tweaking. I've already been on Xs.org and runmc and I have already traded a few PMs.. As the crow flies, he is about 15 miles from me.. LOL. As for the top builders, that's an inside track of info that I don't have access to. I know there are SEVERAL capable builders/modders of phase change units, it's just a matter of hooking up with a reputable one that can get the work done in a timely manner. I am not really out of anything right now as I am on my current setup and it works just fine.. I just want to be able to push the envelope so to speak, on my overclocks.

I really appreciate your post.. The vapo "should" hold me over for quite some time. I've read that Penryn will generate LESS heat than the current lines of C2Duo's and C2Quads ( http://itnews.johntelford.com/2007/01/intel-penryn.html ).. So, along those lines of thinking, if this vapo unit can hold its own with the high QX6700 heat output, it should be no trouble for the next generation of Intel processors.

BTW, are you from Texas? ..EDIT.. NV, I just read your profile.. "The Show Me State" ...Cool!
 
Yeah.. I already know. The vapo LS is very capable.. It just needs to be modded. It can handle the quad just fine with a little tweaking. I've already been on Xs.org and runmc and I have already traded a few PMs.. As the crow flies, he is about 15 miles from me.. LOL. As for the top builders, that's an inside track of info that I don't have access to. I know there are SEVERAL capable builders/modders of phase change units, it's just a matter of hooking up with a reputable one that can get the work done in a timely manner. I am not really out of anything right now as I am on my current setup and it works just fine.. I just want to be able to push the envelope so to speak, on my overclocks.

I really appreciate your post.. The vapo "should" hold me over for quite some time. I've read that Penryn will generate LESS heat than the current lines of C2Duo's and C2Quads ( http://itnews.johntelford.com/2007/01/intel-penryn.html ).. So, along those lines of thinking, if this vapo unit can hold its own with the high QX6700 heat output, it should be no trouble for the next generation of Intel processors.

BTW, are you from Texas? ..EDIT.. NV, I just read your profile.. "The Show Me State" ...Cool!

Awesome...... sure wish I lived that close to Ron..... I order a lot of parts from him, he just shipped me a couple of condensors this morning. Very nice guy :)
 
Well I'm stepping into the world of phase change.. I had my bouts with AIR and obviously hit a wall.. Then I went to Peltier TEC... It was hit and miss.. Then I decided to go with a heavy duty watercooling solution.. I'm not exactly pleased with my overall performance.. So, I purchased a Vapochill LS today.. So, what are some realistic expectations?

Since I had a VERY hard time keeping my QX6700 nice and cool, is it an unreal expectation to have a 24/7 stable overclock to 4ghz?

I intend on selling my Swiftech CPU block but I am keeping my watercooling setup as I plan on purchasing chipset water blocks and keeping them cool under water.. I'd love to hear any thoughts you guys might have.. Any known problems or issues and any solutions would be very welcomed!

(my setup is in my signature below)


XFX&

Hey Mike, I was just at FrozenCPU today getting some Jolt and a SilenX fan and I told the guy about your setup and the cooler. He said the phase change unit would more then easily handle a quad core as it takes temperatures to deep negative celsius ranges. He said the FreezeOne from Coolit craps out on the quad core, but not the phase changers.

He may have meant under stock speeds though, idk about the TDP at the speeds you want it at.

Also, their store policy is no returns on water and extreme cooling solutions. I was going to get the FreezeOne when I found this out. The policy makes sense so I will wait for CoolIt's upgraded offering for quad cores.

I think the guy's name is Jeff Constable, but I am not sure.

Just trying to help!
 
HEY! Thanks for the info.. I've ordered TONS of stuff from Frozencpu.com.. Probably into the thousands of dollars over time, between my TEC, Watercooling and now this Vapo.. It's kind of ironic, but I've really payed attention and have been reading tons of articles on the Vapochill and various forms of phase change (single stage) units.

After reading a few "bad experiences" on phase change units, one of the common issues was its use. Specifically, it was under heavy load for such a prolonged amount of time (ie.. 100% of the CPU being utilized for very long periods of time such as folding). I understand that utilizing 100% of the processors ability obviously causes said processor to really heat up. This is really amplified on quadcores as they tend to produce excessive amounts of heat, more-so than a standard C2Duo.. That in turn would cause the Vapochill to work overtime, trying to cool the very hot quadcore.:p

Personally, my computers primary role is surfing the net (mostly the wife but obviously I'm on [H]ard|Forum and various other forums, alot). The second role of my computer is gaming and benchmarking. Although I have had my fair share of 4,5,6,7+ hours of gaming binges, I mostly game for about an hour, two at most. I consider myself to have a higher end water setup and I have installed it, torn it down, re-installed it more times than I care to remember. My temps are always within a few degrees each time (both plus or minus where I am now).

I just don't feel comfortable, nor do I want my temps, hovering around the 50c idle mark when I am only at 3.2ghz. Depending on my rooms temps, I have seen them as low as 44c and as high as 55c. Since I live in Texas, and the wall of my room faces the sun most of the day where my computer is, the temps and conditions in that room are NOT favorable. On my E6600, the temps were obviously much lower.

So, I guess my question vgame64, would be.. Do the guys at Frozencpu truly believe that the Vapo LS is capable of running a QX6700 24/7 at 3.8ghz - 4.0ghz for my needs (surfing the net, and a small amount of benchmarking / gaming)? If you want to ask them, that would be cool since you live close.

I can totally see why a person who is folding 24/7 or someone who runs their CPU all the time at close to 100% everyday, would REALLY need a heavy duty phase change unit. For me, I am not that extreme. It's just a hobby and I enjoy the challenge of building myself a nice computer. Don't get me wrong though.. I WISH I COULD HAVE A JOB BUILDING EXTREME SYSTEMS and BENCHMARKING FOR WORLD RECORDS. That's my idea of a challenge! But the truth of the matter is.. I am a simple police officer. Building computers is just one of my hobbies and I like having a nice, pretty fast computer.

I still have not found anyone to mod this unit and although I don't have any problems spending my money, it just leaves me wondering if modding this Vapo LS is actually a necessity (or is it just something that the hardcore modder should do if they plan on running their CPU just brutally hard). At this point, I am just searching for the answer that best fits my situation. Everyone knows there is NO ONE SINGLE SOLUTION OR ANSWER that fits everyone.

(Sorry for being long winded..LOL).
 
HEY! Thanks for the info.. I've ordered TONS of stuff from Frozencpu.com.. Probably into the thousands of dollars over time, between my TEC, Watercooling and now this Vapo.. It's kind of ironic, but I've really payed attention and have been reading tons of articles on the Vapochill and various forms of phase change (single stage) units.

After reading a few "bad experiences" on phase change units, one of the common issues was its use. Specifically, it was under heavy load for such a prolonged amount of time (ie.. 100% of the CPU being utilized for very long periods of time such as folding). I understand that utilizing 100% of the processors ability obviously causes said processor to really heat up. This is really amplified on quadcores as they tend to produce excessive amounts of heat, more-so than a standard C2Duo.. That in turn would cause the Vapochill to work overtime, trying to cool the very hot quadcore.:p

Personally, my computers primary role is surfing the net (mostly the wife but obviously I'm on [H]ard|Forum and various other forums, alot). The second role of my computer is gaming and benchmarking. Although I have had my fair share of 4,5,6,7+ hours of gaming binges, I mostly game for about an hour, two at most. I consider myself to have a higher end water setup and I have installed it, torn it down, re-installed it more times than I care to remember. My temps are always within a few degrees each time (both plus or minus where I am now).

I just don't feel comfortable, nor do I want my temps, hovering around the 50c idle mark when I am only at 3.2ghz. Depending on my rooms temps, I have seen them as low as 44c and as high as 55c. Since I live in Texas, and the wall of my room faces the sun most of the day where my computer is, the temps and conditions in that room are NOT favorable. On my E6600, the temps were obviously much lower.

So, I guess my question vgame64, would be.. Do the guys at Frozencpu truly believe that the Vapo LS is capable of running a QX6700 24/7 at 3.8ghz - 4.0ghz for my needs (surfing the net, and a small amount of benchmarking / gaming)? If you want to ask them, that would be cool since you live close.

I can totally see why a person who is folding 24/7 or someone who runs their CPU all the time at close to 100% everyday, would REALLY need a heavy duty phase change unit. For me, I am not that extreme. It's just a hobby and I enjoy the challenge of building myself a nice computer. Don't get me wrong though.. I WISH I COULD HAVE A JOB BUILDING EXTREME SYSTEMS and BENCHMARKING FOR WORLD RECORDS. That's my idea of a challenge! But the truth of the matter is.. I am a simple police officer. Building computers is just one of my hobbies and I like having a nice, pretty fast computer.

I still have not found anyone to mod this unit and although I don't have any problems spending my money, it just leaves me wondering if modding this Vapo LS is actually a necessity (or is it just something that the hardcore modder should do if they plan on running their CPU just brutally hard). At this point, I am just searching for the answer that best fits my situation. Everyone knows there is NO ONE SINGLE SOLUTION OR ANSWER that fits everyone.

(Sorry for being long winded..LOL).

Yeah, I see what you are saying. I plan on making a trip out to Frozen after my last final exam on Saturday. I need one of those nifty 90 cfm 18 dBA fans. :)
I will ask them if the unit can handle sustained 100% cpu usage loads at ~4 GHz for lengthy periods of time, with no worries about failure.
From what I read at XS though (I too have been wanting one of these units), the units will crap out without good mods such as fans providing intake/exhaust and more.
I'll let you know what's up once I talk to them.
 
I'd really hold off on trying to get it modded until you see if it will do what you want..... my guess is that it will. As you pointed out, most of the guys having problems are really pushing the quads with very high vcore and high clock speeds for benching. I think at a moderate oc the unit will perform just fine for you.

One thing to condisder is, if the unit is retuned for a high heat load you run into a whole new set of problems when the system isn't under a high load. If a phase system is tuned for 300w a lot of care has to be taken to prevent liquid floodback to the compressor at lower load levels, this can mean adding an accumulator. You can easily increase the capacity by adding a little more gas, but at a lower load this can be disastrous to the compressor because of liquid floodback. A better way to improve capacity is to tune the cap tube length (shorten it), increase subcooling by either using a larger condenser, more airflow through the condenser, and/or wrapping the captube around the suction line. Adding more charge will also help, but an accumulator will most likely be needed. A new evaporator with more mass will also help under a heavy load.
 
Man, thanks for that link.. I am still not up and running at the moment.. I am still in the fabrication portion of the build.. I will be in the "makin' it purdy and shiny" part of it in about 2 weeks.. (gotta send it out to get chromed).
 
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