Disgruntled s939 owner agrees...

markintosh13 said:
AMD had me, and alot of other s939 users. Then they decided they'd rather have Dell.

I don't think anyone would argue that financially, that didn't exactly work out too well.
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Dell ( large contract/demand) vs. enthusiasts (relatively a minor bump in the road. Sorta like finding a dollar and a penny. If you had to choose which would you take?). Winner by TKO > DELL. Money talks guys. You go with where the $$$ is. Dell's market share beats the heck out of the enthusiast market share. And even if it hasn't worked out well so far - they've made more money from Dell thab they ever would have from us. Capitalism 101. Go where the green is. In this case it was with Dell.
 
BigMacAttack said:
Well - one thing to consider - if there was a faster cpu available and you got it you more than likely would be limited in your oc'ing endeavors by that very mobo that is hurting your perfomance right now. The only benefit to installing a faster cpu is for those people who bought systems that are not oc'able, (Dell, Gateway, HP, etc). If you aren't limited to running at stock speeds a faster (more expensive) cpu will do you very little good. If your system is hitting a wall now it would most likely hit that very same wall with a newer, faster cpu becauue you aren't dealing with the root problem (mobo in your case). Sometimes one's choice of ram is the problem, other times its the mobo and then again it may be the psu. Dropping in a new, faster cpu is only a band-aid approach IMO. If you want more from your present system perhaps a less expensive option would be to upgrade to a far better mobo, ram or psu which would cost you 1/2 to 2/3 the price of a new cpu. Maybe you could pick up some additional performance, maybe not. In any case if your oc is maxed out now a new cpu would probably not help all that much without other adjustments as well.
If speed is what you crave/need then either an AMD AM2 X2 3600 oc'd to nearly 3.0 (if you can get it there) or an Intel C2D setup is the answer. Right now, C2D makes the most sense it would seem.
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yeah, i am considering C2D

as for the mobo thing, i think its mostly my ram locking me down (4 dimms, shouldnt have done that), but im not to convinced. going for a good OC with my x2 would probably mean new SLI mobo, new ram (and ddr is more expensive then ddr2)

thing is though, if amd offered me a x2 6000 for the same price as on am2, i would probably get that instead of considering going intel

as for amd using am2 to get into a good book with dell, thats okay with me, more power to them, but how does starting up am2 producting dictate they cant keep producing some 939 higher end cpus to allow people to do an easy drop in upgrade? as you said, enthusiasts are a relatively small bunch, so keeping one production line in a single fab running one 939 cpus shouldnt take a significant bite out of their capacity
 
Tutelary said:
In your rambling you lost site of the original arguement, that AMD cutting off 939 owners has cost them dearly, which it has. Something should have clicked at AMD when they realized they weren't selling buckets of AM2, and socket 939 manufacturing should have continued for some time. There are any number of people who would be buying 939 instead of core2 right now is the center of this discussion. AMD is in bad shape right now when it didn't have to be.
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I haven't lost site of it... I just disagree with you. Continuing production on s939 would not have magically make AMD better off financially. Sorry, but you're giving yourself WAY too much credit.
 
RamonGTP said:
I haven't lost site of it... I just disagree with you. Continuing production on s939 would not have magically make AMD better off financially. Sorry, but you're giving yourself WAY too much credit.
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I disagree, there is a reason why pre-built system vendors took a step back and once again offered XP as opposed to Vista. There was a still a demand for XP, as there is still a demand for S939 processors. Everyone doesn't magically jump to the newest socket design, especially when there is little to no benefit in doing so.
 
At this point, though, if someone wanted to have a CPU significantly more powerful than the best Socket 939 Opteron, I'm also guessing that he would probably want more memory as well.

Given that the prices of DDR have stayed relatively constant, while DDR2 prices have come crashing down, it just simply makes more sense to upgrade to a DDR2 platform, and put the money saved by buying DDR2 towards the cost of a new motherboard and CPU, since AM2 processors get the price cuts, while 939 processors stay relatively stable, too.
 
DrFreeze said:
as you said, enthusiasts are a relatively small bunch, so keeping one production line in a single fab running one 939 cpus shouldnt take a significant bite out of their capacity
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If AMD were Intel's size I would agree with you but FAB space is at a premium for AMD and they are struggling to keep up with demand (from what I have heard) on OEM cpu's. If they had more FAB's they could go ahead and commit some resources to a s939 production center but unfortunately for them they need to maximize production on the newer platform. Trust me. I felt the same way when they discontinued s754 and fortunately we s754 users got the 90nm architecture after they said "no mas" on s754 development, but that was an entirely different situation than they find themselves in today. Today they need to concentrate on maximizing AM2 production to meet their commitments from OEM customers, particularly Dell, leaving no capacity for s939 development and production. So getting the OEM business did indeed hurt us, the enthusiasts, but again we are a relatively tiny share of the market with little impact on the bottom line - and that's what business is all about - the bottom line. Sentimentality is great and all - but that corporate policy will put you out of business in a hurry. They can afford to lose a few enthusiasts in the short term because if they can take back the performance crown they'll get them back and then some. If they fail - well lets just say I'm glad I don't work for AMD :)
 
RamonGTP said:
I haven't lost site of it... I just disagree with you. Continuing production on s939 would not have magically make AMD better off financially. Sorry, but you're giving yourself WAY too much credit.
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QFT!

The Enthusiast market still amounts to less than 1.5%. At it's peak the aftermarket made up about 2.3% of AMD's sales according to AMD.
 
RamonGTP said:
I haven't lost site of it... I just disagree with you. Continuing production on s939 would not have magically make AMD better off financially. Sorry, but you're giving yourself WAY too much credit.
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giving myself credit? You sit and talk about how the rest of us 'can't think outside the box', when there was nothing abnormal, inventive, outrageous etc that happened in the move to AM2 which would require being analyzed to any degree. If anyone is on an ego trip here, its you. The rest of us simply saw matter of factly what happened to amd, and why.
 
BigMacAttack said:
Sentimentality is great and all - but that corporate policy will put you out of business in a hurry.
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Because you wouldn't want to be down by 611 million or anything, right?

No matter how much everyone wants to push the idea of "they had to go AM2 and kill 939 off overnight" AMDs horrible financial performance of late shows that whatever the plan was, it didn't freaking work. You're standing there yelling about how "right" you are with AMD going down the shitter.
 
BigMacAttack said:
If AMD were Intel's size I would agree with you but FAB space is at a premium for AMD and they are struggling to keep up with demand (from what I have heard) on OEM cpu's. If they had more FAB's they could go ahead and commit some resources to a s939 production center but unfortunately for them they need to maximize production on the newer platform. Trust me. I felt the same way when they discontinued s754 and fortunately we s754 users got the 90nm architecture after they said "no mas" on s754 development, but that was an entirely different situation than they find themselves in today. Today they need to concentrate on maximizing AM2 production to meet their commitments from OEM customers, particularly Dell, leaving no capacity for s939 development and production. So getting the OEM business did indeed hurt us, the enthusiasts, but again we are a relatively tiny share of the market with little impact on the bottom line - and that's what business is all about - the bottom line. Sentimentality is great and all - but that corporate policy will put you out of business in a hurry. They can afford to lose a few enthusiasts in the short term because if they can take back the performance crown they'll get them back and then some. If they fail - well lets just say I'm glad I don't work for AMD :)
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That was a short term problem is the 4th quarter of 2006. The first quarter saw many fill those 3rd & 4th quarter orders with Intel processors now AMD can't give them away.

What also hurt them is that many smaller OEM's, Distributors & VAR's felt they were ditched to make a sweetheart deal with the new-guy, Dell. There were stories all over the web that AMD pissed off the very folks who saw them through rough times. Ruiz even halfheartedly Apologized to them. I know you 'll not want to hear this but when AMD did get ramped up, many told them to go to hell.

http://www.crn.com.au/story.aspx?CIID=78928&r=rstory

After reporting a big first-quarter loss, AMD executives said the chip maker is counting on sparking a financial rebound.

A perfect storm, that's how Advanced Micro Devices President and COO Dirk Meyer summed up the chip maker's fiscal first-quarter dive, during which four adverse conditions - lower unit sales and average selling prices, channel inventory shortages, competitive pressure from new Intel processors and a weakening in consumer electronics - contributed to a US$611 million loss.
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http://www.crn.com.au/story.aspx?CIID=77763&r=rstory

"The next couple of years are critical for AMD," McGregor said. "They have to prove that they can take Intel head on, while Intel is looking at them."
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AMD is not just capacity constrained and is NOT selling all they can make. Their sales are down and what they are selling is showing less ROI.

Before these comments, this same guy said Intel was ignoring AMD too much so all he's saying now is "AMD awakens Intel Goliath". ;) IMHO, it was a case of Intel not thinking Little David couldn't aim that sling and AMD thinking that one rock would knock Intel Senseless. Both will be more careful next time.
 
Tutelary said:
Because you wouldn't want to be down by 611 million or anything, right?

No matter how much everyone wants to push the idea of "they had to go AM2 and kill 939 off overnight" AMDs horrible financial performance of late shows that whatever the plan was, it didn't freaking work. You're standing there yelling about how "right" you are with AMD going down the shitter.
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And staying with s939 wouldn't have changed that one bit now would it? Core2 would have come along and blown AMD's s939 away and instead of screaming about how forlorn and forsaken you are you'd be yelling "why didn't AMD do anything? Why didn't they move to DDR2?: etc, etc, etc...So AMD can't win either way with you. The point is they'd still be down $611 million and possibly even more had they stayed with s939 and all their poor fan*** would still be screaming like a bunch of little girls with scraped knees. Trust me, I'm no fan of AM2 - I argued against it back when everyone was saying it was a necessary upgrade. I didn't buy it then and I still don't. I still have not upgraded because I have no need for the latest, greatest, e-boner system. I refused s939 because I bought my s754 setup back when s939 was just coming out and there were only 1 or 2 mobos capable of running it and DDR dual channel ram was only worth 3-5% max in performance increase - it made no sense. You are in the same boat now that I was back then. I stuck it out on my platform and am still using it because AMD hasn't offered me a big enough incentive to upgrade (except for the s754 Venice cpu's which are interesting oc'ers but not all that much faster than their Clawhammer siblings TBH.) I realize that progress demands change. Change is inevitable. Learn to deal with it. Nothing stays the same forever and all the whining won't change that. Do like Donnie says - vote with your wallet and leave AMD behind if they aren't giving you what you want. Its pretty simple really. Love AMD and hate Intel all you want but Intel is laying a spanking on AMD right now. If you can't stomach Intel then stand pat and use your system for another 12-18 months and see what AMD has to offer at that time. Is it really so hard to do? Is your world going to end? Honestly, it isn't difficult. Who knows - maybe AMD will pull a rabbit out of the hat and give you what you crave - an opportunity to spend more $$$ on something that will do you absolutely no real good - except the satisfaction of spending more money on an inferior outdated system. Hey, knock yourself out. And BTW - as Donnie may attest ;) , I'm an AMD fan too.
 
Donnie27 said:
AMD is not just capacity constrained and is NOT selling all they can make. Their sales are down and what they are selling is showing less ROI.

Before these comments, this same guy said Intel was ignoring AMD too much so all he's saying now is "AMD awakens Intel Goliath". ;) IMHO, it was a case of Intel not thinking Little David couldn't aim that sling and AMD thinking that one rock would knock Intel Senseless. Both will be more careful next time.
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You are more aware of all the background stuff than I am to be sure, but this comment:
"AMD is not just capacity constrained and is NOT selling all they can make. Their sales are down and what they are selling is showing less ROI." wouldn't be any less true if they were still on s939. The problem is they don't have a counter for C2D yet and if s939 was still in production they'd be getting far more criticism for standing pat. AMD is caught between a rock and a hard place so Barcelona better deliver or they are going to up the creek without a paddle. I do agree that both companies have made mistakes and have suffered for it. Never underestimate your opponent. Both have and now its AMD's turn to pay for it. Hopefully they'll stay in the game so that we can have some good (for the consumer) healthy competition.
 
BigMacAttack said:
If you can't stomach Intel then stand pat and use your system for another 12-18 months and see what AMD has to offer at that time. Is it really so hard to do? Is your world going to end? Honestly, it isn't difficult. Who knows - maybe AMD will pull a rabbit out of the hat and give you what you crave - an opportunity to spend more $$$ on something that will do you absolutely no real good - except the satisfaction of spending more money on an inferior outdated system. Hey, knock yourself out. And BTW - as Donnie may attest ;) , I'm an AMD fan too.
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Exactly! Games don't necessarily play any better now with a high end 939 versus a Core2Duo. Sure you top out at a higher framerate with the C2D, but the 939 is still no slouch! In the future the differences will definitely become more apparent, but by then most would be looking at upgrading to quad core and above anyway. ;)

It's sad how fast technology is moving. Not because of the progress, but because it seems to perpetuate the need to move on to the bleeding edge at an extremely quick rate. (And the truth is, the majority of people don't NEED to constantly upgrade!) Whereas platforms used to survive for a few years, it seems now the mentality is that we'd be lucky if it lasted for more than one year! :eek: How so very untrue.
 
Draax said:
Hardly, there was a demand for Windows XP, just the same as there is a demand for S939, then again you knew that, which is why you chose to only select part of my original post.

I would tend to agree that it isn't the same simply because the 2 OS's are offered by the same company - not 2 competing companies. In either event Microsoft gets the dollars. Not so in the case of the 2 companies, Intel and AMD, vying for consumer dollars. Eventually all new pc's will be offered with Vista once all the bugs get worked out and Microsoft offers nice incentives to their OEM buyers. Trust me, they'll get their way - they always do. And we'll go along with it if we want to keep up. It sucks but we are at their mercy. I deal with it all the time. AutoDesk has us all (those in my line of work) by the short ones and we upgrade because they are the defacto standard and we need to keep up or pay big $$$ to get back in the game if we fall too far behind. I bought Acad R2007 just to have the latest version and keep our subscription up to date. Be happy the hardware vendors don't force you to upgrade like the software highwaymen do. You'd be even more upset then.
 
So S939 and AM2 processors are made by different companies?
 
BigMacAttack said:
And staying with s939 wouldn't have changed that one bit now would it? Blah blah blah blah blah...continued
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You make the incorrect assumption that I actually care to upgrade at the moment from where I am currently...and you are completely wrong. I dont play games. I have an x2 3800 which will last me quite some time, so the mini novel you just typed out, completely meaningless to me. Oh wait..It gets better..I have an asrock dual sata2, so If I wanted to, I could drop in the AM2 mini board and upgrade, and look, it hasn't happened.

You folks need to learn to seperate emotional attachment from the simplicity of arguing a point.
 
Tutelary said:
You make the incorrect assumption that I actually care to upgrade at the moment from where I am currently...and you are completely wrong. I dont play games. I have an x2 3800 which will last me quite some time, so the mini novel you just typed out, completely meaningless to me. Oh wait..It gets better..I have an asrock dual sata2, so If I wanted to, I could drop in the AM2 mini board and upgrade, and look, it hasn't happened.

You folks need to learn to seperate emotional attachment from the simplicity of arguing a point.
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And you need to learn how to interpret what you read. I, like you haven't felt the need to upgrade so we are both "arguing" from the same standpoint. I am responding to those who are crying over spilled milk if you will. I can't upgrade as you can being I'm on s754 - but unlike some others I'm not pissing and moaning about it. If you don't feel the need to upgrade I think that is great. You aren't being drawn along by the pied piper like a lot of others are.
So, if what I typed is meaningless to you then why are you part of this conversation? Maybe you should concentrate your efforts in a more germain conversation and leave the rest of us to this one. :rolleyes:
 
Draax said:
So S939 and AM2 processors are made by different companies?
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No - but AMD does not have the cpu market as sewn up as Microsoft has the OS market sewn up. There are alternatives to AM2 that are far more effective - not so with Windows. If you go Vista or XP Microsoft still gets your money - savvy? With cpu's you have a choice and are not locked in.
My point is AMD has competition - unlike Microsoft. Don't like Vista? (I don't) then stay with XP - but MS still gets all the $$$. Don't like AM2? Then stay on s939 or jump to the competition. AMD doesn't get all the $$$ if you decide to go elsewhere. They also get nothing if you decide to stand pat.
BTW - its far easier to copy and sell software than it is to manufacture hardware so Microsoft can still sell both easily. You can't just burn copies of cpu's - that takes manufacturing infrastructure and support and a lot more expense than making CD's and burning code onto them. Hence another reason for apples and dumptrucks. Moving on to new architecture with limited facilities, workforce and finances means sacrifices need to be made and some customers will be disaffected. Its the nature of the business. I'm not saying I like or support it - but it is what it is. Its time for some of you to accept it and move on.
 
Exactly, which is why it is of extreme importance that AMD satisfies the customers it already has, as there are alternatives out there for customers to turn to. We have all seen how AM2 failed for AMD, as their loses clearly show. Not only did AM2 not work for AMD, but S939 enthusiasts and cutting edgers now feel jaded, and like many have said in this thread, and I am about to express, we will now buy intel. AMD shot themself in the foot twice.
 
Tutelary said:
giving myself credit? You sit and talk about how the rest of us 'can't think outside the box', when there was nothing abnormal, inventive, outrageous etc that happened in the move to AM2 which would require being analyzed to any degree. If anyone is on an ego trip here, its you. The rest of us simply saw matter of factly what happened to amd, and why.
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By giving yourself too much credit, I am referring to your theory of disgruntled s939 users being the reason behind AMD's financial problems. From that perspective, yes, you are indeed giving yourself too much credit.
 
Draax said:
Hardly, there was a demand for Windows XP, just the same as there is a demand for S939, then again you knew that, which is why you chose to only select part of my original post. :rolleyes:
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That's your analogy? Just because there was demand for an older product when it was forced into obscelence, you can apply the same theory?? Prebuilders started offering XP again not just because the market clamored for it, they did it because it was hurting sales of prebuilt systems.

Shifting sockets from 939 to AM2 had absoultely ZERO effect on sales of prebuilt systems.

Had the s939 demanding market (more specifically those after s939 - which would be less than 1% of all processor sales) been a significant enough force to impact prebuilt sales, perhaps your theory would hold water. The difference of course is that 90% of people in the marketplace care about changing from XP to Vista, and .05% care about the damned socket layout on the processor.

Hence: Apples and Dumptrucks.

For the record, I only quoted part of your post, because it was an independant portion of it that i disagreed with.
 
Draax said:
I disagree, there is a reason why pre-built system vendors took a step back and once again offered XP as opposed to Vista. There was a still a demand for XP, as there is still a demand for S939 processors. Everyone doesn't magically jump to the newest socket design, especially when there is little to no benefit in doing so.
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You analogy is flawed IMO... There is a big difference between an OS which has a very severe effect on the entire system as well as compatibility concerns with your existing software as well as hardware, versus a new CPU... Add in to the mix that with the OS your options are only two... XP or Vista and with CPU's you have several dozen choices and it should become clear that an OS change is a far more significant change than a CPU or socket change.
 
BigMacAttack said:
And you need to learn how to interpret what you read. I, like you haven't felt the need to upgrade so we are both "arguing" from the same standpoint. I am responding to those who are crying over spilled milk if you will. I can't upgrade as you can being I'm on s754 - but unlike some others I'm not pissing and moaning about it. If you don't feel the need to upgrade I think that is great. You aren't being drawn along by the pied piper like a lot of others are.
So, if what I typed is meaningless to you then why are you part of this conversation? Maybe you should concentrate your efforts in a more germain conversation and leave the rest of us to this one. :rolleyes:
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People aren't "crying" about it. They are mad that AMD sat on its ass yet another generation with no real shift in performance and is now bottoming out. We need two major players in the market. Hopefully the folks at AMD have gotten a kick in the pants now. I personally don't want $400 and $500 processors as the 'low end' down the road if Intel wipes AMD off the map.
 
Tutelary said:
People aren't "crying" about it. They are mad that AMD sat on its ass yet another generation with no real shift in performance and is now bottoming out. We need two major players in the market. Hopefully the folks at AMD have gotten a kick in the pants now.
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Sounds like crying to me. Everything that has happened sofar has been expected and known about before it even happened.

We knew C2D would wipe the floor with Athlon64
We knew that AM2 would not offer any real benifits over s939, everything else being equal
We knew that what little performance advantage AM2 has would not be enough to beat C2D
And we know that Barcelona is AMD's real answer to C2D

There is absolutly NOTHING surprising about what is going on right now in the CPU market, so I don't get what you guys are bitching about. In the end, it is what it is and it isn't going to change, no matter how much you cry about it.
 
RamonGTP said:
Sounds like crying to me. Everything that has happened sofar has been expected and known about before it even happened.

We knew C2D would wipe the floor with Athlon64
We knew that AM2 would not offer any real benifits over s939, everything else being equal
We knew that what little performance advantage AM2 has would not be enough to beat C2D
And we know that Barcelona is AMD's real answer to C2D

There is absolutly NOTHING surprising about what is going on right now in the CPU market, so I don't get what you guys are bitching about. In the end, it is what it is and it isn't going to change, no matter how much you cry about it.
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You have COMPLETELY missed the point that the discussion isnt about performance. Congratulations. This is AMD collapsing and leaving the market if they don't do something convincing in the next generation or two.
 
Tutelary said:
People aren't "crying" about it. They are mad that AMD sat on its ass yet another generation with no real shift in performance and is now bottoming out. We need two major players in the market. Hopefully the folks at AMD have gotten a kick in the pants now. I personally don't want $400 and $500 processors as the 'low end' down the road if Intel wipes AMD off the map.
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Ok - point taken. And I agree with you 100% about the need for AMD to be in the marketplace, too.We don't need a hegemony again. Its always bad for the consumer. I am as "pro" AMD as anyone because I think they make a darned good product and I like having competition. I am very hopeful Barcelona will be able to counter C2D. Maybe then I'll bite and upgrade the work system I have because that's where I really need the power.
 
i would like to comment that i do think we should see a few 939 new processors coming out.

my opinion as to why. c2d is the processor to beat, which has been mentioned before, until barcelona hits, amd has no competition, i think they should try to corner the market with upgrade holdouts instead of what they are doing now.


simply put, cheap 939 with new upgrades would be great for people moving to dual core off of socket A, 754, 478, or anything that essentially is not capable of c2d. Even with the price drop on c2d i would stand by this because many people like myself really maxed out these last 2 gens, so we have high end ddr1, and for those of us who are already on 939, may have a very expensive high end motherboard that is enough of an investment to just drop another processor in without changing platforms.

basically if a direct attack on intel isn't working, which lets face it, they don't have the guns to do so right now, they should R&D barcelona to again keep up with intel, but make their income off of holdouts and cater to the budget conscious crowd. look at a different market for now instead of trying to steal intel's thunder
 
I see your point but I think that a newer s939 cpu would be a lot less bang for the buck simply because the cpu's out right now can be oc'd to gain that difference in performance. As I said, this would be a good upgrade path to those who are locked into a prebuilt system, such as my experience with my Compaq AMDXP2100 system. I couldn't oc it so I had to replace the cpu with an XP2400. Its a little faster but was it really worth the cost? Meh - maybe. It merely prolonged the agony a little longer and truth be told I could have taken what it cost me for the cpu and put it to better use toward another system. There are plusses and minuses each way. S939 may be "out of date" (as is s754) but that doesn't make it worthless by any means. Its just down a rung now from where it once was.

Now I'll go along with you if AMD would make a 65nm s939 cpu - like they did for s754 when they released the 90nm s754 Venice and Sempron cpu's long after they said "no more s754 for you!" Now that would indeed be a sweet kick in the pants IMO. It has happened before so I wouldn't count them out - but in this market environment I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it. It would be a really nice gift though.
 
Tutelary said:
You have COMPLETELY missed the point that the discussion isnt about performance. Congratulations. This is AMD collapsing and leaving the market if they don't do something convincing in the next generation or two.
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Not about performacne? Ok, indulge me then... If it isn't about performance, why the need for existing "disgruntled" 939 users to upgrade? If it isn't about performance, you don't need to upgrade, if you don't need to upgrade this thread shouldn't exist.
 
RamonGTP said:
Not about performacne? Ok, indulge me then... If it isn't about performance, why the need for existing "disgruntled" 939 users to upgrade? If it isn't about performance, you don't need to upgrade, if you don't need to upgrade this thread shouldn't exist.
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Hey, this time I do agree with because it is about Performance with me. I'd like at least a 4800 to replace my 3500.
 
RamonGTP said:
Not about performacne? Ok, indulge me then... If it isn't about performance, why the need for existing "disgruntled" 939 users to upgrade? If it isn't about performance, you don't need to upgrade, if you don't need to upgrade this thread shouldn't exist.
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because these people who want to move up also wouldn't mind saying money and effort both by staying on their current platform. Of COURSE if they wanted the newest and best they would run out and get a core 2 quad, but they would rather do the intelligent thing and make a minor hop on the platform they already own.

You just jumped in, talked crap and completely missed what this thread was about. It had nothing to do with 939 not being the best anymore, or AM2 not ever being the best, it had to do with people getting value out of a socket that should have lasted longer. This was AMD shooting itself in the foot with its core audience.

Hell its not even about getting a 6000+ on 939 (which would be new), you can't even buy previously existing cores like the 4800+ for anything approaching a reasonable sum of money anymore.
 
Tutelary said:
because these people who want to move up also wouldn't mind saying money and effort both by staying on their current platform. Of COURSE if they wanted the newest and best they would run out and get a core 2 quad, but they would rather do the intelligent thing and make a minor hop on the platform they already own.
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People who want to "move up" eh? Sounds like another word for performance to me.

I think it is you who missed it, you are simply using different words to say the same thing... Performance.

I'll say it again, you guys are giving your selves too much credit, sorry to burst your bubble, but the few of you that are upset (and it is a very small handful relative to the whole) do not have the buying power to have put AMD in its current situation.

If your little theory was correct, AMD's financial problems would be due to lack of sales. However, lack of sales isn't their problem, and infact, sales figures are pretty strong. Their problem is their nearly non-existant profit margins and that isn't going to change until they have a product that consumers are willing to pay more for.
 
RamonGTP said:
People who want to "move up" eh? Sounds like another word for performance to me.

I think it is you who missed it, you are simply using different words to say the same thing... Performance.

I'll say it again, you guys are giving your selves too much credit, sorry to burst your bubble, but the few of you that are upset (and it is a very small handful relative to the whole) do not have the buying power to have put AMD in its current situation.

If your little theory was correct, AMD's financial problems would be due to lack of sales. However, lack of sales isn't their problem, and infact, sales figures are pretty strong. Their problem is their nearly non-existant profit margins and that isn't going to change until they have a product that consumers are willing to pay more for.
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Call it how you want. You kept pushing core 2 and AM2 into the equation when they were peripheral to the discussion at best. Lets put it this way: the expected upgrade POTENTIAL for 939 that people were counting on has effectively been removed. Like that one better? People were expecting to be able to at least get some new life out of 939 with a steady trickle of production. Not happening.

I'm not going to bother to argue semantics anymore. We both know what is being referenced here.
 
Tutelary said:
Lets put it this way: the expected upgrade POTENTIAL for 939 that people were counting on has effectively been removed. Like that one better? People were expecting to be able to at least get some new life out of 939 with a steady trickle of production. Not happening.

I'm not going to bother to argue semantics anymore. We both know what is being referenced here.
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And the reason for upgrading is increased performance, period. So it IS about performance. And those few people expecting to upgrade and can't aren't going to do any damage to AMD for reasons already mentioned several times in this thread.

A steady trickle of production would mean splitting their already scarce resources, which would put them in a much worse position than upsetting a small handful of people.

I'm glad you won't bother arguing anymore because I too am getting tired of repeating myself. I just find it... Interesting, that somehow you've convinced yourself that performance isn't the reason people upgrade.
 
RamonGTP said:
. And those few people expecting to upgrade and can't aren't going to do any damage to AMD for reasons already mentioned several times in this thread.
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...Its not exactly helping AMD for these people to be driven to Intel, now is it? Your rationale is lacking, and I'm done. You aren't worth the arguement.
 
Dark Prodigy said:
If I remember correctly (IIRC), there were still a few options AMD kicked out for S754 after the launch S939.

However, a couple near high end S939 chips would benefit AMD greatly and would recoup some financial losses. There are still millions of S939 platform users out there that are not willing to upgrade to entirely new platforms as yet, but would be willing to upgrade to stronger processors.
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Here Here !!!! :)


And here I thought I would come back to a dead thread...
 
markintosh13 said:
I'm in this boat:

Any higher end X2 939 cpus I can find are expensive, used, etc and the bang for the buck isn't really there. An X2 s939 3800+ doesn't really turn my crank.

If I could buy an X2 5600+ in s939 at the AM2 price - $235cdn - I would - it would be less performance than a C2D, but an easy easy upgrade. Would I fork out $235 to end up with a less-than-zomg dualcore to avoid swapping out a mobo and doing a reinstall? Yup.

My Asrock mobo has an AM2 cpu upgrade board available, for about $40cdn, figure $120 for 2GB cheap DDR2, and $235 for the cpu = $395cdn.

Or I could spend $75cdn on another Asrock mobo in socket 775, buy the same cheap DDR2 ram for $120 and an e4300 for $139cdn for a total of $334cdn. Now the e4300 in this mobo is "only" going to OC to 285 - 300 FSB for a total speed of "only" 2.56 - 2.7Ghz, but it still wins.

And if I go the C2D route, I might as well spend another $50 on a better mobo and go for the 3.2Ghz OC... I'm still ahead of the AM2 option - and for people who don't have the "cheap cpu add-in board" option - the AM2 upgrade path is even more expensive.
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Another member who 'Gets It'.... ;)


markintosh13 said:
Nope - can't OC present rig any further.

I put expensive ram into it, put a decent aftermarket cooler on it, volt modded the mobo for extra vcore, have too many casefans for my liking. It don't fly no faster.

The thing is, an e4300 with cheap DDR2 667 ram and stock hsf will hit 3ghz, maybe 3.2 on a $125 cdn mobo.

A jacked up s939 X2 @ 3ghz might compare similarly with it if it was running @ stock 1.8ghz. I doubt I'd get a cheap s939 X2 3800+ up to 3Ghz on my mobo.

And the price to go to entry level C2D that I know is faster than any OC'd s939 ain't that much money, and since I'd be happy with a fairly easy 3ghz OC, it won't cost too much time either.

AMD had me, and alot of other s939 users. Then they decided they'd rather have Dell.

I don't think anyone would argue that financially, that didn't exactly work out too well.
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Same here,I cannot overclock it naymore without a new mobo,or water cooling,at which point it is not a good deal anymore by any stretch of the imagination....


BigMacAttack said:
Dell ( large contract/demand) vs. enthusiasts (relatively a minor bump in the road. Sorta like finding a dollar and a penny. If you had to choose which would you take?). Winner by TKO > DELL. Money talks guys. You go with where the $$$ is. Dell's market share beats the heck out of the enthusiast market share. And even if it hasn't worked out well so far - they've made more money from Dell thab they ever would have from us. Capitalism 101. Go where the green is. In this case it was with Dell.
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If only it was as simple as the above... AMD could have easily dedicated a small part of maunfacturing to s939 CPU production,and not felt it at all.and would still be making a decent profit off it,instead of the current insanity Hector has them on.As I said in one of the other threads,he thinks he is the CEO of AMDati,when really he is the Captain of the Titanic.I am saying they could have played both fields just fine,and still have been able to throw us a bone (s939 X2 6000+....).


RamonGTP said:
If your little theory was correct, AMD's financial problems would be due to lack of sales. However, lack of sales isn't their problem, and infact, sales figures are pretty strong. Their problem is their nearly non-existant profit margins and that isn't going to change until they have a product that consumers are willing to pay more for.
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Actually,both are real problems.Not being able to admit that,at this point is foolish.If they 'threw us a bone' sort of,they would have more sales,and would at least be making those thin margins we all know they subsist on.Not selling us s939 doesnt even get them that pittance.
 
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