Software Pirate Arraigned In U.S.

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The leader of the piracy group known as “DrinkOrDie” has been extradited to the U.S. where he faces ten years in prison and a half a million dollar fine. The guy has spent three years in jail fighting extradition, by the time he is convicted he’ll be eligible for parole.

Hew Raymond Griffiths, 44, a British national living in Bateau Bay, Australia, is being charged with one count of conspiracy to commit criminal copyright infringement and one count of criminal copyright infringement. If convicted on both counts, Griffiths faces a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison and a $500,000 fine.
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Good thing he didn't download an illegal song, or the RIAA would have REALLY screwed him to the wall...
 
Yeah, let's not spend our extremely thinned out resources protecting people's rights or fighting actual violent criminals, or improving our education system. Let's ensure that companies with billions of dollars don't have to worry about people stealing their product and losing revenue. Because, man, you wouldn't want to make those shareholders unhappy.

I don't want to sound like software piracy is a victim-less crime, but come on. This has gone on long enough. If companies would charge a fair price for their products instead of gouging the consumers maybe we wouldn't take the time to pirate crap. If people could buy CDs for $3-4 a piece then people wouldn't bother downloading a crappy sounding MP3. If DVDs were only $6-7, then people wouldn't wait three days for a 4GB iso to download.

I can have CDs duplicated for 75 cents a piece or less, including the jewel case and a booklet to go inside the damn thing. Why does a CD still cost $15 plus at the store? Because people are fucking greedy. So it doesn't make me feel bad when they complain about how much revenue they lose, because they have been taking revenue from us for years. Bastards.
 
I have a different outlook at than most. How anyone can say that software, or whatever that's downloaded off the Internet is causing companies to loose money is beyond me.

Call me naive, but if 99% of the stuff readily available via the Internet wasn't, who would go out and buy it? Just because music can be downloaded doesn't mean if it wasn't, that someone would run out and buy. It's a very broad statement to say that companies are loosing money over this. If the governments of the world want to put a stop to it, start with securing the Internet better... Yes is can be done...
 
Eickst said:
Yeah, let's not spend our extremely thinned out resources protecting people's rights or fighting actual violent criminals, or improving our education system. Let's ensure that companies with billions of dollars don't have to worry about people stealing their product and losing revenue. Because, man, you wouldn't want to make those shareholders unhappy.

I don't want to sound like software piracy is a victim-less crime, but come on. This has gone on long enough. If companies would charge a fair price for their products instead of gouging the consumers maybe we wouldn't take the time to pirate crap. If people could buy CDs for $3-4 a piece then people wouldn't bother downloading a crappy sounding MP3. If DVDs were only $6-7, then people wouldn't wait three days for a 4GB iso to download.

I can have CDs duplicated for 75 cents a piece or less, including the jewel case and a booklet to go inside the damn thing. Why does a CD still cost $15 plus at the store? Because people are fucking greedy. So it doesn't make me feel bad when they complain about how much revenue they lose, because they have been taking revenue from us for years. Bastards.
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Flyingcrazy said:
I have a different outlook at than most. How anyone can say that software, or whatever that's downloaded off the Internet is causing companies to loose money is beyond me.

Call me naive, but if 99% of the stuff readily available via the Internet wasn't, who would go out and buy it? Just because music can be downloaded doesn't mean if it wasn't, that someone would run out and buy. It's a very broad statement to say that companies are loosing money over this. If the governments of the world want to put a stop to it, start with securing the Internet better... Yes is can be done...
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Holla..100 percent truth. It is Greed that causes the breakdown of society.
 
Eickst said:
Yeah, let's not spend our extremely thinned out resources protecting people's rights or fighting actual violent criminals, or improving our education system. Let's ensure that companies with billions of dollars don't have to worry about people stealing their product and losing revenue. Because, man, you wouldn't want to make those shareholders unhappy.

I don't want to sound like software piracy is a victim-less crime, but come on. This has gone on long enough. If companies would charge a fair price for their products instead of gouging the consumers maybe we wouldn't take the time to pirate crap. If people could buy CDs for $3-4 a piece then people wouldn't bother downloading a crappy sounding MP3. If DVDs were only $6-7, then people wouldn't wait three days for a 4GB iso to download.

I can have CDs duplicated for 75 cents a piece or less, including the jewel case and a booklet to go inside the damn thing. Why does a CD still cost $15 plus at the store? Because people are fucking greedy. So it doesn't make me feel bad when they complain about how much revenue they lose, because they have been taking revenue from us for years. Bastards.
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Gee because the content couldn't have cost anything.......you know paying the hundreds to thousands of people whose livelyhood that depends on writing that code over years of time. Whose money goes back into the economy to pay for those services you love so much. In soviet russia you code for free!
 
Not to mention you have to have some profit there in order to garner capital investment (people apparently don't like pissing money away...who would have thought!) and to invest in the next generation of product /develop new products.
 
Yeah, let's not spend our extremely thinned out resources protecting people's rights or fighting actual violent criminals, or improving our education system. Let's ensure that companies with billions of dollars don't have to worry about people stealing their product and losing revenue. Because, man, you wouldn't want to make those shareholders unhappy.

I don't want to sound like software piracy is a victim-less crime, but come on. This has gone on long enough. If companies would charge a fair price for their products instead of gouging the consumers maybe we wouldn't take the time to pirate crap. If people could buy CDs for $3-4 a piece then people wouldn't bother downloading a crappy sounding MP3. If DVDs were only $6-7, then people wouldn't wait three days for a 4GB iso to download.

I can have CDs duplicated for 75 cents a piece or less, including the jewel case and a booklet to go inside the damn thing. Why does a CD still cost $15 plus at the store? Because people are fucking greedy. So it doesn't make me feel bad when they complain about how much revenue they lose, because they have been taking revenue from us for years. Bastards.
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You can't say greed is the cause of breakdown of society, afterall capitalism relies on individual 'greediness' and we all know it's a successful system at benefiting more people than other economic systems in the world.

And when you complain about the cost of a software package relative to a cost of CD, you're comparing apples to oranges. A blank CD is blank, and the retailer is selling just the right to use the blank CD. Whereas a software package is a CD WITH software on it that SOMEONE made a monetary and time investment. So when you say that a CD is only 75 cents, well so what? You're not buying only the CD, you're buying the right to use the software. Companies needs to recoup their investment and make some profit in order to spur further investment on future products. If you're main beef is with the price, then don't buy their product. You can't resort to something illegal just because something you WANT is out of your budget. Theres a lot of things I want, but do I have the right to just take them? No. If I go steal a car because afterall cars are just pieces of metal and plastic and should really cost what the material is made of, would do you think the police will say when I tell them that the dealer charges too much and therefore I could just take the car?

Piracy is a big problem and I'm glad that its getting more attention from the government in cracking down on them.
 
acidic said:
You can't say greed is the cause of breakdown of society, afterall capitalism relies on individual 'greediness' and we all know it's a successful system at benefiting more people than other economic systems in the world.

And when you complain about the cost of a software package relative to a cost of CD, you're comparing apples to oranges. A blank CD is blank, and the retailer is selling just the right to use the blank CD. Whereas a software package is a CD WITH software on it that SOMEONE made a monetary and time investment. So when you say that a CD is only 75 cents, well so what? You're not buying only the CD, you're buying the right to use the software. Companies needs to recoup their investment and make some profit in order to spur further investment on future products. If you're main beef is with the price, then don't buy their product. You can't resort to something illegal just because something you WANT is out of your budget. Theres a lot of things I want, but do I have the right to just take them? No. If I go steal a car because afterall cars are just pieces of metal and plastic and should really cost what the material is made of, would do you think the police will say when I tell them that the dealer charges too much and therefore I could just take the car?

Piracy is a big problem and I'm glad that its getting more attention from the government in cracking down on them.
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I find the funniest part of the arguement about it being greed on the part of a business in setting pricing or policing their IP is that the people complaining it is greedy and pirating things are actually the really greedy ones in that they want a product without paying for it.
 
"one count of conspiracy to commit criminal copyright infringement and one count of criminal copyright infringement."

This even SOUNDS rediculous. Criminal copyright infringment? Gimme a break.
 
acidic said:
You can't say greed is the cause of breakdown of society, afterall capitalism relies on individual 'greediness' and we all know it's a successful system at benefiting more people than other economic systems in the world.

And when you complain about the cost of a software package relative to a cost of CD, you're comparing apples to oranges. A blank CD is blank, and the retailer is selling just the right to use the blank CD. Whereas a software package is a CD WITH software on it that SOMEONE made a monetary and time investment. So when you say that a CD is only 75 cents, well so what? You're not buying only the CD, you're buying the right to use the software. Companies needs to recoup their investment and make some profit in order to spur further investment on future products. If you're main beef is with the price, then don't buy their product. You can't resort to something illegal just because something you WANT is out of your budget. Theres a lot of things I want, but do I have the right to just take them? No. If I go steal a car because afterall cars are just pieces of metal and plastic and should really cost what the material is made of, would do you think the police will say when I tell them that the dealer charges too much and therefore I could just take the car?

Piracy is a big problem and I'm glad that its getting more attention from the government in cracking down on them.
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Yeah, MS "deserves" to make $10 billion a quarter because they pay coders $25k a year. I would feel bad about a company's "monetary and time" investment when the people who reap the most money at the company made neither of the two prerequisite investments.

Show me a software company whose CEO doesn't make more than 50 times the average salary of the company employee and I'll show you a company I'll do business with.

Until then, they can suck on my chocolate salty bit torrent tracker.
 
Spectre said:
I find the funniest part of the arguement about it being greed on the part of a business in setting pricing or policing their IP is that the people complaining it is greedy and pirating things are actually the really greedy ones in that they want a product without paying for it.
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I never said I didn't want a product for free. I want to pay what the product is worth. It's unfortunate that what the RIAA/MPAA/Whoever feel that their product is infinitely valuable, and I feel it's worth a hell of a lot less.
 
Man I wish I could edit posts on these front page news things. I have horrible choices of words in both of my previous posts so please forgive them.
 
Eickst said:
I never said I didn't want a product for free. I want to pay what the product is worth. It's unfortunate that what the RIAA/MPAA/Whoever feel that their product is infinitely valuable, and I feel it's worth a hell of a lot less.
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If you don't feel it is worth the price being charged don't use it. Then piracy nor the price of the object matter to you and you make your point about cost by not buying their product. Complaining about a price is greedy because you want more for less.
 
Eickst said:
I never said I didn't want a product for free. I want to pay what the product is worth. It's unfortunate that what the RIAA/MPAA/Whoever feel that their product is infinitely valuable, and I feel it's worth a hell of a lot less.
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Oh...and this isn't some kid who downloaded 20 tunes of the web. This is a guy who lead a group whose whole enterprise was widescale theft.
 
Spectre said:
Oh...and this isn't some kid who downloaded 20 tunes of the web. This is a guy who lead a group whose whole enterprise was widescale theft.
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So someone who robs a bank and gets away with $4000 should have a smaller penalty than someone who robs a bank and gets $400000 even though it was the exact same crime? (just being facetious with this post)
 
Spectre said:
If you don't feel it is worth the price being charged don't use it. Then piracy nor the price of the object matter to you and you make your point about cost by not buying their product. Complaining about a price is greedy because you want more for less.
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Complaining about a price isn't being greedy. I suppose you pay full MSRP for every car you have ever purchased? That's just greedy, and you are taking money away from the dealership. You should be ashamed.
 
Eickst said:
So someone who robs a bank and gets away with $4000 should have a smaller penalty than someone who robs a bank and gets $400000 even though it was the exact same crime? (just being facetious with this post)
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The law defines different severities of crimes.

Complaining about a price isn't being greedy. I suppose you pay full MSRP for every car you have ever purchased? That's just greedy, and you are taking money away from the dealership. You should be ashamed.
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No paying less than retail legally isn't greedy.....telling someone they are charging too much and complaining about it is.
 
Its ok to talk and complain about prices being too high, BUT when you use it as a justification for pirating then thats definitely out of line.
 
acidic said:
Its ok to talk and complain about prices being too high, BUT when you use it as a justification for pirating then thats definitely out of line.
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I'm in total agreement with that.

For those that don't agree, why not take a look at "Crysis" and "Stalker"?

How long have they been in developement? How long have the developers been paying their developers?

If it takes 4 years of developement to bring a game to market, and then it costs $60, just like those other EA games which are nothing more than, well, trash, how can you say that Crysis for instance, is over-priced?

Even it was overpriced, that doesn't give you a right to steal it. Gasoline is overp[riced right now, but that doesn't justify pulling into a gas station, filling up your car, and just driving away.

That is "illegal".

Like DUH!

Theft is theft, there's no way around that. If you're determined to be a thief, so be it, but please, don't attempt to justify your theft to other people by saying it cost too much in the first place, so therefor it's ethical to steal it.

There's nothing ethical, nor moral, about theft, it is what it is, no matter how you attempt to justify it.

That's it in a nutshell. ;)
 
Who cares about Bin Laden, at least they got this guy. I know I'll sleep easier tonight.:rolleyes:
 
For those that don't agree, why not take a look at "Crysis" and "Stalker"?

How long have they been in developement? How long have the developers been paying their developers?

If it takes 4 years of developement to bring a game to market, and then it costs $60, just like those other EA games which are nothing more than, well, trash, how can you say that Crysis for instance, is over-priced?

Even it was overpriced, that doesn't give you a right to steal it. Gasoline is overp[riced right now, but that doesn't justify pulling into a gas station, filling up your car, and just driving away.

That is "illegal".

Like DUH!

Theft is theft, there's no way around that. If you're determined to be a thief, so be it, but please, don't attempt to justify your theft to other people by saying it cost too much in the first place, so therefor it's ethical to steal it.

There's nothing ethical, nor moral, about theft, it is what it is, no matter how you attempt to justify it.

That's it in a nutshell.
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What about the poor people? Without piracy do you think they would ever experience the entertainment we middleclass/rich people have in video games/music/movies? Like come on $60 here for 1 game is ridiculous, how are they supposed to afford it? Since the major companies only target us because they know we'll shell out money on their entertainment. It also leads to crime, with people stealing the games/cds/dvds physically from stores. Its really not stealing from a poor person's point of view, they already took a huge hit in their income actually buying a computer so give them a break. Piracy is like the greatest thing to happen to people without alot of money, its their safe haven to enjoy/experience what rich people enjoy everyday as in digital entertainment. As long as there are rich and poor people in this world there will always be piracy in one form or another.
 
Rincheese said:
What about the poor people? Without piracy do you think they would ever experience the entertainment we middleclass/rich people have in video games/music/movies? Like come on $60 here for 1 game is ridiculous, how are they supposed to afford it? Since the major companies only target us because they know we'll shell out money on their entertainment. It also leads to crime, with people stealing the games/cds/dvds physically from stores. Its really not stealing from a poor person's point of view, they already took a huge hit in their income actually buying a computer so give them a break. Piracy is like the greatest thing to happen to people without alot of money, its their safe haven to enjoy/experience what rich people enjoy everyday as in digital entertainment. As long as there are rich and poor people in this world there will always be piracy in one form or another.
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If you can't afford 60 for a game you probably can't afford the 1500 dollar computer needed to run it. Maybe you should walk into a store and pick a computer up without paying for it? Becasue your world will stand still if you can't the newsest hottest game on the market...
 
BladeVenom said:
And copying is copying. You seriously need to learn the difference between theft and copying.
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Sidewalkcookie doesn't need to learn the difference because copying without a license to make copys or distrubt something is theft. Just because you don't like the fact that your form of theft is still theft does not make it legal.
 
Probably could have used thier resources better by rather catching people like Osama.
 
The difference between theft and copyright infringement is that one always generates loss, the other may or may not. In fact, copyright infringement can generate additional profit.

There are plenty of games that I have downloaded and never paid for. 90% of today's games are pure crap. The same thing chewed up and regurgitated over and over.

Does that mean company xyz has lost money from that? No. Because I would have just waited until someone I knew bought it and tried it out at their place. In fact, me downloading games and playing them first generates additional income for the companies that make quality software because I pay for them right after release when their sale price is highest, instead of a couple months down the road when I get a chance to try it.

If someone who isn't going to buy a game goes out and pirates it, there is no loss. Despite whatever the gaming industries version of the RIAA/MPAA says.
 
Probably could have used thier resources better by rather catching people like Osama.
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Thats really irrelevant to what the main point was. Sure theres lots of resources that could be better spent, but that is not what we are discussing. I can point and say that civil servants are paid too much and that money could be better spent on roads and schools. Its a completely irrelevant issue and should be treated as such. How would you like it if you were bilked of your earnings and the police refused to intervene because 'its better to spend resources on hunting osama'?
 
acidic said:
Thats really irrelevant to what the main point was. Sure theres lots of resources that could be better spent, but that is not what we are discussing. I can point and say that civil servants are paid too much and that money could be better spent on roads and schools. Its a completely irrelevant issue and should be treated as such. How would you like it if you were bilked of your earnings and the police refused to intervene because 'its better to spend resources on hunting osama'?
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Just ignore Ockie, all he ever does it troll and try to start flame wars.
 
Eickst said:
Yeah, MS "deserves" to make $10 billion a quarter because they pay coders $25k a year.
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In my 15 years at Microsoft, I averaged considerably better than $25,000 per year.
 
Spectre said:
Sidewalkcookie doesn't need to learn the difference because copying without a license to make copys or distrubt something is theft. Just because you don't like the fact that your form of theft is still theft does not make it legal.
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You can rape the English language all you want, but it's still copyright infringement not theft.
 
BladeVenom said:
You can rape the English language all you want, but it's still copyright infringement not theft.
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Arguing semantics does not help the discussion. A crime is a crime and the criminals need to be punished or it thrives upon society's neglect
 
acidic said:
Arguing semantics does not help the discussion. A crime is a crime and the criminals need to be punished or it thrives upon society's neglect
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I would consider it more than semantics. The MPAA and the RIAA are in a propaganda war. The politics and laws that result are important to me and I think to society. Fair Use and public domain being two very good examples. Both have been "stolen."

Also let the punishment fit the crime. I'm offended when copying a movie can get you in more trouble than killing someone. Look at the RIAA claiming $150,000 in damages for copying a 99 cent song.

I consider the RIAA and MPAA the biggest thieves and crooks in this country.
 
BladeVenom said:
Fair Use and public domain being two very good examples. Both have been "stolen."
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What do you mean? Can you express it without the rhetoric?

BladeVenom said:
Look at the RIAA claiming $150,000 in damages for copying a 99 cent song.
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I'd be very interested in looking. Got a link? Specifically, I'm interested in learning how many times the 99 cent song was copied, if the amount claimed was compensatory or punitive or both, and a few other things.
 
BladeVenom said:
I would consider it more than semantics. The MPAA and the RIAA are in a propaganda war. The politics and laws that result are important to me and I think to society. Fair Use and public domain being two very good examples. Both have been "stolen."

Also let the punishment fit the crime. I'm offended when copying a movie can get you in more trouble than killing someone. Look at the RIAA claiming $150,000 in damages for copying a 99 cent song.

I consider the RIAA and MPAA the biggest thieves and crooks in this country.
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First of all, I don't understand what you mean by your first statement. Do you mean you want all songs/records/software free and claim them to be in the public domain? If thats so, then its rather outrageous to expect producers and software engineers to work for no compensation. Your second point is good, but I have yet read an article that a copyright infringement is punished more than murder and the fines seems to be big but nowhere as big as you make it out to be for one song.
 
First of all, I don't understand what you mean by your first statement. Do you mean you want all songs/records/software free and claim them to be in the public domain?
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No. My complaint is that copyright law keeps getting extended. I think it started out at something like 28 years. Now every time Disney's first movies copyright is about to expire, copyright laws get extended. Effectively public domain is dead, stolen by Disney and the MPAA. It should be set back to a reasonable period.
 
BladeVenom said:
No. My complaint is that copyright law keeps getting extended. I think it started out at something like 28 years. Now every time Disney's first movies copyright is about to expire, copyright laws get extended. Effectively public domain is dead, stolen by Disney and the MPAA. It should be set back to a reasonable period.
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Happy Birthday Mickey Mouse!

Welcome to the world of corrupt politicians, enjoy your stay.

I'd be very interested in looking. Got a link? Specifically, I'm interested in learning how many times the 99 cent song was copied, if the amount claimed was compensatory or punitive or both, and a few other things.
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The number of copies does not matter one bit. They maintain the right to go after each and every individual that made a copy and therefor cannot also attack an individual for copies that their copy may have spawned. If they were the values would grow exponentially and you would have the RIAA suing each of tens of thousands of people for hundreds of millions of dollars per song (Which I'm sure they would love).

I think people need to step back and look at the situation. Law is supposed to serve the people, not the other way around.If you think the law should be designed to keep the rich rich and the poor poor, that's your prerogative. In my mind there's something wrong when the laws only serve the friends of those who write them.
 
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