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NEC LCD2690
- Thread starter travbomb
- Start date
I'm not a gamer, and persistence / response time of little concern to me. Even so, since I'm one of the first with a 2690, I ran the pixel persistence tests, as requested. I ran the tests both with overdrive off and on. These were run on my PC, connected to the 2690 through a kvm into the analog vga port. My MacPro is digital, of course, but this is PC software so that's where I ran it.
I really don't know how to interpret the results, but here they are:
Overdrive off:
I hope that's useful.
Anyway, I'm loving the monitor, with or without overdrive!
I really don't know how to interpret the results, but here they are:
Overdrive off:
Graphics mode: 1920x1200 @ 32 bpp
Frame rate: 59.6 Hz
Gamma factor: -
Flag test: b->w: 97.0%, w->b: 94.7%, b->g:-, w->g:-
Chase test: 1(1.7ms), 5(8.3ms), 4(6.7ms)
Readability: Tempo 8
Overdrive on:Frame rate: 59.6 Hz
Gamma factor: -
Flag test: b->w: 97.0%, w->b: 94.7%, b->g:-, w->g:-
Chase test: 1(1.7ms), 5(8.3ms), 4(6.7ms)
Readability: Tempo 8
Graphics mode: 1920x1200 @ 32 bpp
Frame rate: 59.6 Hz
Gamma factor: -
Flag test: b->w: 100.0%, w->b: 98.2%, b->g:-, w->g:-
Chase test: 1(1.7ms), 3(5.0ms), 3(5.0ms)
Readability: Tempo 8
Frame rate: 59.6 Hz
Gamma factor: -
Flag test: b->w: 100.0%, w->b: 98.2%, b->g:-, w->g:-
Chase test: 1(1.7ms), 3(5.0ms), 3(5.0ms)
Readability: Tempo 8
I hope that's useful.
Anyway, I'm loving the monitor, with or without overdrive!
Can anyone answer if this is good or bad?
I believe it increases the voltage to each pixel, above the standard voltage normally used, to get it to change in less time (lower response time), with a penalty in image quality. (How much so depends on how well it is implemented I guess.)
Good to know, so i guess if it's better to switch it off for max quality! thanks Clement.
TRAVBOMB...I Order one true Microserv...Mike Snizynsky the REP for the province of Quebec Canada told me it's him who will distribute them to ARTCO, Synnex, Ingram...He told me i'm on the top of is list !!!
Was wondering if you have a date of shipement.
I'm dying her....Please...
TRAVBOMB...I Order one true Microserv...Mike Snizynsky the REP for the province of Quebec Canada told me it's him who will distribute them to ARTCO, Synnex, Ingram...He told me i'm on the top of is list !!!
Was wondering if you have a date of shipement.I'm dying her....Please...
I've just posted some comments regarding this monitor for photo use, at http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1154800.
Good to know, so i guess if it's better to switch it off for max quality! thanks Clement.
TRAVBOMB...I Order one true Microserv...Mike Snizynsky the REP for the province of Quebec Canada told me it's him who will distribute them to ARTCO, Synnex, Ingram...He told me i'm on the top of is list !!!
I'm dying her....Please...
You talk to Mike?!?! Mike is a great guy, I am sure he will help you out. We just had a group of units released into our normal stock today so those should be shipping out tomorow. I will post again in the morning.
I really don't know. After seeing his results I downloaded the software and ran the tests on my 23" Philips - but they're almost all so subjective that I don't know how it would be possible to get reliable results without some reference point. For example, in the text legibility test I was able to read and re-type the random scrolling letters up to the maximum speed - 10 - but they were blurry as anything. But the test only asks you to stop when you can't make them out at all. Well I could still make them out. So how does that relate to the other test results of "8". Did he merely stop when it wasn't "comfortable", or did he try really hard? Who knows.
I stopped when I couldn't read the text at all. But, I've got 55-year-old eyes. Maybe I could have read another increment or two fifteen years ago.
You're right, that the tests are very subjective. Even the boxes test is pretty tough to decide on an exact answer.
Take them for what they're worth, but I wouldn't base a buying decision on them.
You're right, that the tests are very subjective. Even the boxes test is pretty tough to decide on an exact answer.
Take them for what they're worth, but I wouldn't base a buying decision on them.
Exactly... since they're so subjective I think the tests are only of real use when done by the same person on multiple monitors. Different people, different subjective limits.
What is more scientific and I'd love someone to do is the CRT vs LCD lag test - where you set the displays to clone mode, put a large stopwatch on the screen and photograph both at the same time to see how many frames "behind" the LCD is.
lukx
Limp Gawd
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to 26" Nec users: How is watching movies and playing games on this baby?
He was very nice over the phone. When you said shipping Tomorow, was that going to Mike for him to distribute?
Thanks again Trav
Hi TRAVBOMB and all guys who already have got 2690!
I am to ask a stupid question..
I do not doubt that 2690 is great, but could you make some subjective comparison of STATIC IMAGE QUALITY of 2690 and well-known 2180/2190UXi?
After all, you know, 2690 uses non-NEC panel of not so mature technology. If it were not, I would buy it without any questions..
I am to ask a stupid question..
I do not doubt that 2690 is great, but could you make some subjective comparison of STATIC IMAGE QUALITY of 2690 and well-known 2180/2190UXi?
After all, you know, 2690 uses non-NEC panel of not so mature technology. If it were not, I would buy it without any questions..
interpolator
Weaksauce
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Buyers are reporting that the NEC Spectravue software is not currently displayed on the NEC website at the $169 standalone price. They claim it is being displayed bundled with a probe for $400. Is the stand alone software going to be returned to the site at some point?
I've looked at several options for a monitor with accurate colour display around $2500.00 Cdn., including Eizo/Samsung/Mac/Dell etc and I'll be ordering the 2690. I will be putting it to task with Photoshop, Painter, Nikon Capture and other photo softwares. I also dabble with 3D editors, but I won't be playing games on this monitor...photo editing only.
Well... I haven't been active here in a very long time, long enough for my original login to get wiped. Nothin' personal
I hope I'm not committing any particular sins here... thread necromancy (though this does seem to be the "official" thread) and/or pimping a thread of mine on another board. But I've put together something of a gamer's review of this panel over at WSGF, which seemed like the most appropriate place to put it.
Bottom line... seems like Vincent @ BEHardware is either:
1) Smoking dope,
2) Looking at something pre-production, or
3) His testing methodology just doesn't represent anything meaningful.
Guys and gals, the 2690 chews up games and spits them out. You don't even need Overdrive. It doesn't smear, it doesn't ghost, I can't test input lag in a meaningful way but it doesn't "feel" like a problem. This display is smooth as glass.
I made a $1591 gambit on this panel, but it paid off. It's a lot more than a lot of you are willing to pay, but pay is what you do when you don't want to compromise. An S65 AMG is expensive too.
I hope I'm not committing any particular sins here... thread necromancy (though this does seem to be the "official" thread) and/or pimping a thread of mine on another board. But I've put together something of a gamer's review of this panel over at WSGF, which seemed like the most appropriate place to put it.
Bottom line... seems like Vincent @ BEHardware is either:
1) Smoking dope,
2) Looking at something pre-production, or
3) His testing methodology just doesn't represent anything meaningful.
Guys and gals, the 2690 chews up games and spits them out. You don't even need Overdrive. It doesn't smear, it doesn't ghost, I can't test input lag in a meaningful way but it doesn't "feel" like a problem. This display is smooth as glass.
I made a $1591 gambit on this panel, but it paid off. It's a lot more than a lot of you are willing to pay, but pay is what you do when you don't want to compromise. An S65 AMG is expensive too.
Excellent writeup painman, thanks for posting. Switching to a sRGB colorspace seems silly to me though. One of the main reasons to get the 2690 (vs. the 2490) is for the increased color gamut, but if you're saying sRGB looks better, then aren't you turning it into a 72% color gamut monitor? I know you haven't calibrated it yet, so I eagerly await your review of that. Again, thanks a lot.
Meow, I think you're misunderstanding calibration. The monitor, as delivered, looks great. What calibration does is to make the colors look more precisely correct when attached to my particular computer, with my particular video card, at the brightness and gamma I want, in my ambient lighting, etc. It's mostly important if, for instance, I want a photo on the screen to match the photo on my printer. Some people will calibrate weekly, or even daily.
Most calibrators work by writing an ICC profile that your computer uses to modify a lookup table (LUT) in the video card, and don't even touch the monitor, though they may provide some guidance to setting up the monitor. They are not really calibrating the monitor at all, but rather calibrating the computer to the specific monitor. NEC's Spectraview software is unique in that it will modify the LUT internal to this particular monitor before creatig the ICC profile, which should do a somewhat better job.
My advice is, if you're gaming or using the monitor for general purposes, ignore the calibration discussion and just get the monitor to look good. In my case, that would have consisted of turning down the brightness, and that's all.
Most calibrators work by writing an ICC profile that your computer uses to modify a lookup table (LUT) in the video card, and don't even touch the monitor, though they may provide some guidance to setting up the monitor. They are not really calibrating the monitor at all, but rather calibrating the computer to the specific monitor. NEC's Spectraview software is unique in that it will modify the LUT internal to this particular monitor before creatig the ICC profile, which should do a somewhat better job.
My advice is, if you're gaming or using the monitor for general purposes, ignore the calibration discussion and just get the monitor to look good. In my case, that would have consisted of turning down the brightness, and that's all.
Good call. Calibration is pointless if you are a gamer, as you don't care about color accuracy you care about contrast.
Sweet. I was hoping for that as this monitor is my top pick. I require both like color accuracy and good response.
Thanks for the feedback on the review
My only reason for using sRGB space on it right now is reading/writing and browsing. Native on my panel (as it came from the box) makes text a little bleedy. It's just a quick and dirty way to switch between a high and low contrast profile for now. I look forward to getting it calibrated - I do think that's important, even for entertainment uses. I like to see on my screen what the creator(s) saw on theirs. Now you can have it all.
interpolator
Weaksauce
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Why waste your money on this NEC monitor if you do not care about color accuracy. Go buy a Dell for 40% of the price of this monitor of all you care about is gaming. The Dell, BenQ, Samsung will perform just as well if not better for gaming purposes than this NEC monitor.
Tamlin_WSGF
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Why save 40% of the price if all you care about gaming?
If all you care about is gaming, you want the best gaming experience possible. According to Painmans review, you have the speed required and almost any tweaking option available to make your games shine. Since its based upon a S-IPS panel, chances are that you don't have the loss of detail at center view as some models among the brands Dell, BenQ and Samsung you refer to. Also, there is less chance of input lag/signal delay as well. Coupled with a greater gammut, 12 bit lut and colorcomp to increase the panel uniformity, the standards are set a bit higher. I don't know what kind of performance you refer to when you say that the Dell, BenQ and Samsung (which models btw?) will perform just as well if not better for gaming purposes? If you are talking about the 24" variants, then neither of those screens are in the same league as the 2690. The 2690 is a graphical professional monitor that is actually fast enough to to game with according to Painman (who is one of the few that has tried this screen here). It costs more, but that also goes for a geforce 7300GT vs. a 8800GTX. That you can run games with the 7300GT doesn't mean its better then the 8800GTX. Gaming isn't just about running the games. People want eyecandy too. Here I believe the 2690 delivers more then any of the BenQ, Dell and Samsung models.
Manny Calavera
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Why save 40% of the price if all you care about gaming?
I don't know what kind of performance you refer to when you say that the Dell, BenQ and Samsung (which models btw?) will perform just as well if not better for gaming purposes? If you are talking about the 24" variants, then neither of those screens are in the same league as the 2690. The 2690 is a graphical professional monitor that is actually fast enough to to game with according to Painman (who is one of the few that has tried this screen here). It costs more, but that also goes for a geforce 7300GT vs. a 8800GTX. That you can run games with the 7300GT doesn't mean its better then the 8800GTX. Gaming isn't just about running the games. People want eyecandy too. Here I believe the 2690 delivers more then any of the BenQ, Dell and Samsung models.
I agree to a point,but I would never equate the 2407 A04 or BenQ 241W to a 7300GT !!!??! More like they are the 7900GTX's and the 2690 is the 8800GTX.
Tamlin_WSGF
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I agree to a point,but I would never equate the 2407 A04 or BenQ 241W to a 7300GT !!!??! More like they are the 7900GTX's and the 2690 is the 8800GTX.
Yes, I might have been a bit too rough making this point.
Travbomb, Do you have any info for me...I've been posting on 2 treads her asking for you and still no anser. I'm the guy that order one from Montreal Quebec. I spoke to Mike from NEC this week he said he was going to call in Chicago and get back to me, but I still have no news? I'm asking because your asking the other people her where did they order! do you need more info from me? I Need this badly. i'm renting a Nec at the moment and this new monitor is costing me more and more everyday! I would like to know when I'm going to get one, beacause at this rate it's going to be as expenssive as a CG from EIZO!
I'm starting to wonder if your posting these info just to calm things down and keep us on leash? If i had the good info from the start i could have made other choices or organized differently. I apreciate your posting her but The date of delevery as been push back so many times....I just wonder?
I'm starting to wonder if your posting these info just to calm things down and keep us on leash? If i had the good info from the start i could have made other choices or organized differently. I apreciate your posting her but The date of delevery as been push back so many times....I just wonder?
PostPCMan, I'm buying this thing exactly because it has such good colors. I don't use it for games, I use it for video-editing, color-correcting, photography, photoshop, the gimp, hd-movies, web-work, audio-editing, multi-tracking, fast-updating serious screen-dependent material.
So having it calibrated the right way is VERY important to me.
I have no idea why you assume I'm some kind of gamer-kid. I'm 40+ years old, have very good eye-sight still.
@travbomb, I already answered that question you're asking..
So having it calibrated the right way is VERY important to me.
I have no idea why you assume I'm some kind of gamer-kid. I'm 40+ years old, have very good eye-sight still.
@travbomb, I already answered that question you're asking..
Sorry, Meow, I'm not sure why I assumed that. Anyway, the comments on the nature of calibration / profiling still stand. If you want accurate, standardized color out of this or any other monitor, having a profiling colorimeter tool is the only way to do it. The only difference with an NEC monitor is that, unlike most other manufacturers, NEC doesn't provide the tools to write their internal LUT to other software developers. Independent software packages like ColorEyes will handle the LUTs for most monitors, but only NEC's own SpectraView software will write theirs. The software that comes free with my Gretag-Macbeth profiler won't touch most monitors, and instead just writes the ICC profile for the computer, which actually works quite well.
Why NEC keeps their LUT proprietary is a mystery to me. It certainly is not customer-friendly behavior, and I wish that they'd reconsider, or at least make their own software (which, I think, works only with their hardware) much cheaper.
Why NEC keeps their LUT proprietary is a mystery to me. It certainly is not customer-friendly behavior, and I wish that they'd reconsider, or at least make their own software (which, I think, works only with their hardware) much cheaper.
midnightgreen
n00b
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Hey Travbomb, thanks for the useful infos so far, do you have any idea when the SpectraView edition of the 2690 is going to be released in the UK? thnx
interpolator
Weaksauce
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Why save 40% of the price if all you care about gaming?
I don't know what kind of performance you refer to when you say that the Dell, BenQ and Samsung (which models btw?) will perform just as well if not better for gaming purposes? If you are talking about the 24" variants, then neither of those screens are in the same league as the 2690. The 2690 is a graphical professional monitor that is actually fast enough to to game with according to Painman (who is one of the few that has tried this screen here). It costs more, ... Gaming isn't just about running the games. People want eyecandy too. Here I believe the 2690 delivers more then any of the BenQ, Dell and Samsung models.
Tamlin_WSGF - Congradulations you are the first I have heard that has annointed the NEC 2690 as the best monitor for both professional graphics and gaming purposes! Unfortunately the world of gaming values several parameters where a number of far less expensive 24 inch monitors perform better. In particular in the area of response time the NEC panel has not lived up to its advertised specification. It is great that Painman is so impressed with the NEC display; unfortunately Vincent Alzieu, in his review at: http://www.behardware.com/articles/648-3/nec-multisync-lcd2690wuxi-the-first-26-inch.html discredited the NEC 2690 for its poor performance relative to the far cheaper 24 inch monitors on the market. Alzieu's quote states:
"Clearly the reaction time of this panel is disappointing. There has been no progress since the Nec LCD2090UXi, an IPS 16 ms. We even wonder if the panel manufacturer, or Nec forgot to put the 1 in front of the 6ms response time."
Even when it comes to color accuracy, Alzieu notes that the Dell 2407wfp had a lower out of the box DeltaE than the NEC 2690.
I have seen all of the above mentioned manufacturers 24 inch offerings as well as the NEC 2690. All of the monitors have their strong points and the NEC product advances in several areas. However the panel is not an NEC panel and the panel is/will be availalable in other products. It has yet to be seen if the panel manufacturer can maintain quality control and consistency in production of this panel. This panel's yield has yet to provide the quality and quantity needed to sustain the market demand for it.
I stand by the proposition that the gamer is better served by the far less expensive avialable 24 inch products than the 25 inch, currently short supplied, NEC 2690. The market for the NEC 2690 is the professional graphics oriented person. It competes in that market superlatively. One is deluding themselves it they believe the NEC 2690 provides the best gaming experience possible. NEC 2690 owners will be viewing games and video with more blurs and imperfect rendering of images than on some of the competitors 24 inch offerings. When I saw the NEC 2690 I found the backlight to be overly bright out of the box and believe one would have to reduce the backlight substantially for use even in a graphic production situation. It is unclear to me what reducing the backlight to minimum does to the gama and color accuracy of the NEC 2690. The ability to custom tweak the NEC 2690 LUT is of great benefit but this comes at the higher price of paying more for the monitor in addition to add on costs for NEC software. The price premium associated with graphics user benefits does not enhance the gaming experience suffficiently to justify its price for the gamer when other lower priced products exceed the performance of the NEC 2690 in other performance parameters important to the gamer.
Lets not forget that Vincent at Behardware is notorious for reviewing monitors without turning on / off all of the appropriate features for different applications. This has happened a few times in the past so I wouldnt take his review as gospel.
Manny Calavera
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Dell 2407 A04/benQ 241Wz FTMFW
If I could afford 1600.00 I would buy one,but,I cannot at present or in the near future....
Tamlin_WSGF
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The reaction time results at Behardware were great.
Considering that it wasn't NEC who forgot to put 1 infront of the 6 ms response time, but Vincent@behardware who forgot to turn on overdrive before testing the response time, the native respone time without overdrive was excelent. All the 24" have overdrive on. The 24" VA's are natively slow panels. Using a reviewer who is too stupid to activate overdrive/rapid response when comparing response time with screens featuring overdrive doesn't count for much. Do you honestly feel Behardware made a valid response time test with this screen now that you know there is an overdrive feature that wasn't active?The "out of the box" DeltaE is pretty meaningless unless each monitor is individually factory calibrated. Thats why there are no perfect generic profiles... Check out what he said about the color reproduction of this screen...
NEC has packed this panels with features not found in any of the other panels. Check NECs press release here about this panels features.
As mentioned above, Rapid response is a nice feature that needs to be turned on. LCD20WGX2 benifits from it on and so would probably this panel too, don't you think?
If you reduce the backlight to a comfortable level through hardware, it wouldn't represent a problem. Through software you limit the range of colors/greyscale.
What we disagree upon is the benifit for the gamers of this screen. Even Vincent had nothing bad to say about the picture quality of this screen. Let me quote him a bit, since you like his flawed reviews:
from the same review...
I see that your opinion is pretty much based upon Vincents senile dementia when it comes to actually testing the features of the screens. Its sad that he didn't test X-Light® Pro, colorcomp, gammacomp etc. too... Rapidmotion was probably off too when rapidresponse was off... From previous reading from Behardware, I don't put much weight into what they say and its pointless to use them as a point of reference. But, if you wish...:
Behardware's review praised the PQ on this screen. Great for gamers.
Rapid response made the 20" NEC one of the fastest 20" LCD's in the world. It should do some good for the 2690 too, don't you think? Behardware never tested the rapid response on this screen, so there is no reference point here other then Painmans excelent review, which goes in favor of this screen.
Gamers doesn't always go for the cheapest alternative in their hardware. They buy even dual 8800GTX, though a single one could run the resolution well if eyecandy is off. Many gamers put more $$$ in their hardware then graphical professional.
The screen is often the last piece of hardware you change in the computer, so it should be decent.
Visual quality matters for many gamers. In many cases more then speed (RPG, Strategy, Adventure and more). With rapid response and a grapical professional screen, you get premium PQ at a descent speed. Hopefully, the 13 btw and 7 GtG of the NEC would prove faster then the 16 btw and 6 GtG 24" varients of today.
Tamlin_WSGF....*clap* *clap* *clap*
Well done. I was going to reply to that post as well, but, well....my reply would look amateurish next to yours.
For me, Photography is priority #1. Gaming is #1a. Both are hobbies, but hobbies I very much enjoy. I can justify a high price if it does both things (photo editing and gaming) VERY well.
Well done. I was going to reply to that post as well, but, well....my reply would look amateurish next to yours.
For me, Photography is priority #1. Gaming is #1a. Both are hobbies, but hobbies I very much enjoy. I can justify a high price if it does both things (photo editing and gaming) VERY well.
interpolator
Weaksauce
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Using a reviewer who is too stupid ...
NEC has packed this panels with features not found in any of the other panels.
Let me quote him a bit, since you like his flawed reviews:
I see that your opinion is pretty much based upon Vincents senile dementia
Painmans excelent review, which goes in favor of this screen.
You almost sound like a shill who trolls this site to pump up interest in traffic at your own website. Would you put up with this kind of name calling on the WSGF website where you are a moderator? I have no like or dislike for Vincent. I take it as one man's opinion, just as I take Painman's experience as one man's opinion that he keeps updated also on your WSGF website. I see no reason to get so personally negative about your poor opinion of Vincent. Just because his website competes on monitor reviews with the website you are a moderator of is no reason to get insulting.
When you receive your NEC 2690 I look forward to your hopefully unbiased report. After all it really does not matter what anyone says, as long as you are happy with the monitor for its intended purposes.
As it relates to the NEC press release; there is no technology in the NEC 2690 that is not currently available in monitors from other manufacturers. Furthermore, you should be asking the question of what is not in the NEC 2690 today that is contemplated to be in this piece six months from now.