So Intel has Quad Core, what about AMD?

drizzt81 said:
As I mentioned in the AMD subforum, the Heise news post is far from certain about ultimate being the only Vista OS that supports 2P. Their wording is that "apparently" the non-ultimate versions of vista do not support more than one socket. There are other sources that suggest that all, but the Home basic and below versions of Vista support 2P.

While you may be dead-set on Vista, if the 2P-requires-ultimate rumor is indeed true, WinXP Pro can be purchased for ~$120 or less as OEM version, which will run 2P systems without any problem and supports quite a variety of games, applications and other hardware.
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You might be right and I hope this info is wrong. I might want to go with Dual Woodys or something in about a year from now. It'd be screwed up if I had to pay the est $239 for Vista UE.

As I also said, I'd take two Woodys over One Kentsfield any day. It's as simple as two FSBs and 256bits to Memory for me.
 
ThatsAgood1jay said:
I cant wait until amd crushes intel back into the hole they just recently dug themselves out of.

Dont be to cocky about amd being alittle behind on the 4x4's. If they need alittle more time to make a better product, By almeans's take all the time you wish.
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Believe what you must, but I hope K8L kicks Intel's ass. I hope the tables are turned and AMD is back on top. Why, competition brings out the best in Intel and AMD. The only problem is that Fan$ can't seem to grasp that concept;) They want to see one side win all the time and even cheerfully pay $875 for A64 FX-57 and 1000+ for FX-62 and X6800.

Now read through some of those old posts where the same Webmasters who said; "Sure FX-60 is worth it $1100 at some places. But if you want the best you'll have to pay for it." Now are saying $1050 is too much for X6800 LOL! That's a frackin' clear sign of BIAS at its best.

Cocky? No, what's cocky is AMD calling Intel out for a fight to try and get a few licks in before Conroe was demoed. Then they ran with their little green tails between their legs. Every move has been what the Military calls "Delaying Actions".

You mean you guys aren't worried that every time AMD didn't let out any leaks, their next product that was hid was lack-luster? Don't they know hiding 4 X 4 is doing wonders for X6800 and XQ6700? Guys on Xtremesystems.org have been overclocking XQ6700 to 3.6GHz+ for months now. Seen any 4 X 4 systems over there?
 
i do have to say that I am impressed by the AMD guys' restraint in not replying to this thread. all the usual AMD guys have definately shown that they do have some common sense, as this topic was an obvious invitation for flames.....simply because it is a fucking *given* that AMD is beat this round.... the last thing the boards need is ANOTHER thread beating that fact into our head.... yea we got it.... Intel whoops AMD desktop wise- dual and quad core wise, at LEAST until K8L, and at that point, its anyone's game (depending on how well AMD does). Everyone.... EVERYONE knows this.... even the AMD guys, and the last thing we can fault them on is having hope that AMD whoops Intel's ass in the next gen....
 
ThatsAgood1jay said:
I cant wait until amd crushes intel back into the hole they just recently dug themselves out of.

Dont be to cocky about amd being alittle behind on the 4x4's. If they need alittle more time to make a better product, By almeans's take all the time you wish.
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You're either flamebaiting or clueless!

LOL!! B/c I don't understand how you can call roughly 80% of the marketshare, billions in cash & assets, never "in the red", etc.... in a hole?

Wow, thats a hole I'd LOVE to be in my business.... even close to a 50% marketshare in any business is great.(much less all the other good stuff)
 
brucedeluxe169 said:
i do have to say that I am impressed by the AMD guys' restraint in not replying to this thread. all the usual AMD guys have definately shown that they do have some common sense, as this topic was an obvious invitation for flames.....simply because it is a fucking *given* that AMD is beat this round.... the last thing the boards need is ANOTHER thread beating that fact into our head.... yea we got it.... Intel whoops AMD desktop wise- dual and quad core wise, at LEAST until K8L, and at that point, its anyone's game (depending on how well AMD does). Everyone.... EVERYONE knows this.... even the AMD guys, and the last thing we can fault them on is having hope that AMD whoops Intel's ass in the next gen....
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What restraint? The better question would be why? I just say AMD guys acting as if AMD was the best thing since extra soft toilet tissue. Many seem in denial or something, restraint? Then anyone who feel personally offended by negative comments towards AMD is stupid! Especially if that person is an Employee, I apologize, If that person is a Stockholder or even a something else to gain, like an advertiser, I apologize. But if that person is pissed because as you say AMD is getting beat over the head and the above doesn't apply, they're lost!

If AMD users had common sense, there'd be no flames in the first place. They also wouldn't say stupid stuff like Cheering for AMD is like Cheering for the 49ers. Most folks in the middle know neither of these companies should just crush to other year after year. If they did, we see $675 X2 4400+s LOL!

If K8L kicks Intel's Ass, that upgrade I do next year ends up with another AMD stick on the case=P I couldn't care less who it pisses off, being loyal to one company is stupid, counter productive and just flat out bad for the market. That goes for Blue and Green fans!
 
im not an intel f@nb0y by any means...all of my rigs are AMD powered as of now...but 4x4 is the absolute sorriest excuse for a "whoops i crapped my pants" stop gap product ever. the ONLY reason why i think it is impressive is the absolute overkill ability for "quad SLI"and something like 12 SATA ports with RAID onboard. those are the only 2 good features...the rest you could have in a low end dual opty system for a LONG time now...

registered memory is no big downfall...so you lose a whopping 3 or 4fps in your uberleet first person shooter...why would i pay several hundred dollars more for something that is just rehashed inventory?
 
Some of you guys make the kids in the video card forum look like intelligent, civilized adults. I'm a hardware enthusiast as well, but what makes a person talk about a multi-national corporation as though they're a childhood friend getting pushed around by a mean kid on the playground?
 
finalgt said:
Some of you guys make the kids in the video card forum look like intelligent, civilized adults. I'm a hardware enthusiast as well, but what makes a person talk about a multi-national corporation as though they're a childhood friend getting pushed around by a mean kid on the playground?
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gimmie your lunch money or I'll mis-quote you next time ...


[F]old|[H]ard
 
I do have to agree with alot of what Donnie is saying. He is just trying to ask a reasonable question. I do find it amusing how AMD users get pissed off when someone asks they want to build a new system what should I get and then some person be like go Intel Core 2 there the best right now, and then AMD users get all pissed off because your saying there the best and they have diffrent opnions or even if you say something negative about a AMD processor or the company themselves. Then when it comes to Intel, no one has no problem bashing them to no end.

I also agree with one of Ponchos last statement before he was banned, but im not going to get into that.

Anyway on topic, im betting 4x4 will be announced in the next 2 weeks. If I was to take a guess, its probably done, I bet they just want the board manufactors to be ready for the launch of something like that. Maybe not enough processors manufactored....

BTW, Donnie, extra soft toliet paper will always be the best :D
 
Lazy_Moron said:
I do have to agree with alot of what Donnie is saying. He is just trying to ask a reasonable question. I do find it amusing how AMD users get pissed off when someone asks they want to build a new system what should I get and then some person be like go Intel Core 2 there the best right now, and then AMD users get all pissed off because your saying there the best and they have diffrent opnions or even if you say something negative about a AMD processor or the company themselves. Then when it comes to Intel, no one has no problem bashing them to no end.

I also agree with one of Ponchos last statement before he was banned, but im not going to get into that.

Anyway on topic, im betting 4x4 will be announced in the next 2 weeks. If I was to take a guess, its probably done, I bet they just want the board manufactors to be ready for the launch of something like that. Maybe not enough processors manufactored....

BTW, Donnie, extra soft toliet paper will always be the best :D
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Yes and that new extra soft stuff very nice:)

BTW, thanks for the nice post, it's what we need more of.
 
Donnie27 said:
Why, competition brings out the best in Intel and AMD.
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I don't agree with that.
Competition is why Intel released the Extreme Edition CPUs, and why AMD released the FX and 4x4 series.
Not exactly what I consider 'bringing out the best'.
Competition can sometimes push competitors into releasing products prematurely, or stressing the limits on their products, which means the consumer will get an inferior product.
 
Scali2 said:
I don't agree with that.
Competition is why Intel released the Extreme Edition CPUs, and why AMD released the FX and 4x4 series.
Not exactly what I consider 'bringing out the best'.
Competition can sometimes push competitors into releasing products prematurely, or stressing the limits on their products, which means the consumer will get an inferior product.
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OF course that's true but that was short term to stop the bleeding. Not any different than Intel rush launching Smithfield to try and Counter A64-X2. Or Athlon Classic faster than 700MHz Before TBird. In both cases Intel and AMD gave in so consumers gained. We got better performance and cheaper prices.

Extreme and 4 X 4 are for e-Penos bragging rights for their respective companies. The Mid-Range and etc.. is where the real competition is won or lost. If Intel and or AMD had to depend on 4 X 4 or Xtreme processors for anything other than that, like making money, they're screwed IMHO.

I meant overall, competition will make Intel and AMD produce stronger products for better prices. Sure there can be rush jobs but there also can be crap like last year. Find any price lists for AMD Athlon64 X2 and FX from Nov 2005? Intel's lack luster products made AMD Fat, Lazy, Greedy and Big headed. If Intel weren't trying trying to gain market back, Conroe wouldn't have such sweet assed prices. That's not taking either company's side, they're just businesses doing what businesses do, make money:)
 
Donnie27 said:
Extreme and 4 X 4 are for e-Penos bragging rights for their respective companies.
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I also disagree with that. There are people who actually NEED all the processing power they can get. Like my brother, who works with video on his PC. Not because they want to brag about some silly PC.

The Mid-Range and etc.. is where the real competition is won or lost. If Intel and or AMD had to depend on 4 X 4 or Xtreme processors for anything other than that, like making money, they're screwed IMHO.
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So in a way you're saying these systems exist purely for competition, not for the good of the company, and apparently not for the good of the consumer either, because price/performance is a joke.
Which proves my point, competition isn't always better.
That's just way too simplistic... and I've heard that nonsense way too often already.
 
Scali2 said:
I also disagree with that. There are people who actually NEED all the processing power they can get. Like my brother, who works with video on his PC. Not because they want to brag about some silly PC.
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That just ain't true. If he actually needed to turn a profit using his PC he'd buy the best mid-range chip, save himself 500$, wait a year then get another much faster chip using the money he saved. Or hell, buy a 200$ chip and build a second machine with a $200 chip with the money he saves and do the work distributedly.

I really think spending double to triple over the odds is unjustifiable.
 
Donnie27 said:
OF course that's true but that was short term to stop the bleeding. Not any different than Intel rush launching Smithfield to try and Counter A64-X2. Or Athlon Classic faster than 700MHz Before TBird. In both cases Intel and AMD gave in so consumers gained. We got better performance and cheaper prices.
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Don't forget to mention the rushing of the original Pentiums with the bug in them and of course, my favorite, "The do whatever it takes to please the Intel Marketing department fiasco", the recalled P3 overclocked 1.33Ghz processors just so they could match AMD.
 
Someone explain to me what 4 x 4 does for AMD.

1) There are tons of dual socket 940 boards with SLI available. Newegg alone has 6 dual socket 940 boards with SLI.

2) 285's are $300-$400 on ebay.

3) Yeah it requires ecc/reg ram but that really isn't much more expensive than regular ram these days. Frys the other day had 2 x 1GB ecc reg pc3200 for $199.99, not even a sale.

4) nobody high end really uses onboard sata anyway. Who cares if 4x4 has 12 sata ports if it doesn't support hardware raid??? *hugs for my 9550sx-8lp*

So someone tell me why I should be interested in 4x4.
 
Demon_of_The_Fall said:
That just ain't true. If he actually needed to turn a profit using his PC he'd buy the best mid-range chip, save himself 500$, wait a year then get another much faster chip using the money he saved. Or hell, buy a 200$ chip and build a second machine with a $200 chip with the money he saves and do the work distributedly.

I really think spending double to triple over the odds is unjustifiable.
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I disagree. Your suggestion means you're working with a slower PC for a whole year.
You'd easily win back the investment in a year, because you save valuable time on every operation you do, with a faster system.
And the same thing happens over and over again. Ofcourse you can buy a faster chip next year, but again it'd be the same price, so if you again try to 'save money' on a chip and go mid-range, you're still working with a slower system for a whole year.

Also, two PCs can't work on the same file at the same time, so it's not really an option.
It's better to have a single PC with two processors/twice the amount of cores. Especially since video scales really well to multiple cores.
 
then he doesn't need 4x4 if his business is THAT SERIOUS that he can make up that kind of money like nothing...he NEEDS A BIG ASS WORKSTATION...NOT 4x4

by BIG ASS i mean 4+ physical sockets and gobs upon gobs of RAM backed by SAS storage subsystem...period...4x4 isn't even in his gameplan and SHOULDN'T BE...

4x4 and extreme are just that what was said before...E-PENIS BRAGGING RIGHTS
 
fubar569 said:
then he doesn't need 4x4 if his business is THAT SERIOUS that he can make up that kind of money like nothing...he NEEDS A BIG ASS WORKSTATION...NOT 4x4

by BIG ASS i mean 4+ physical sockets and gobs upon gobs of RAM backed by SAS storage subsystem...period...4x4 isn't even in his gameplan and SHOULDN'T BE...

4x4 and extreme are just that what was said before...E-PENIS BRAGGING RIGHTS
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Geez, you people are extreme.
He doesn't do this professionally, so it's not like money is no object when it comes to building a system.
But he does tend to go for the type of system that's lower value-for-money, if it gives better performance.
Workstations with 2 or more sockets have always been way more expensive than regular desktops. So going for the most expensive desktop is still not quite comparable to going for an expensive workstation. Usually even the cheapest workstation is more expensive than any high-end desktop system.

Not that he'd go 4x4 at this time though... Kentsfield is probably a better deal. Core2 runs great, and Intel has traditionally always been good at video. He's looking at getting that.
 
Scali2 said:
I also disagree with that. There are people who actually NEED all the processing power they can get. Like my brother, who works with video on his PC. Not because they want to brag about some silly PC.
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No way in hell when even AMD calls it the ultimate enthusiast rig. There are already powerful workstations for folks who need it. Again, its who this and the XQ6800 is aimed at, namely, Gamers. Its what they say, not what I think.

Scali2 said:
So in a way you're saying these systems exist purely for competition, not for the good of the company, and apparently not for the good of the consumer either, because price/performance is a joke.
Which proves my point, competition isn't always better.
That's just way too simplistic... and I've heard that nonsense way too often already.
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No I posted that the real competition is in the Mid-Ranged lines. This can also be said to a certain Point, Low-end and high profit Servers.

If Intel launched C2D last year when X2 launched, there's no frickin' way 3800+ sells for as much as $425 LOL! If C2D didn't work or failed, no way AMD cuts prices to current level. Yes, it is as simple as that;) No, what's nonsense is that if AMD didn't have C2D to contend with, they wouldn't be desperate enough to try and launch 4 X 4.
 
Met-AL said:
Don't forget to mention the rushing of the original Pentiums with the bug in them and of course, my favorite, "The do whatever it takes to please the Intel Marketing department fiasco", the recalled P3 overclocked 1.33Ghz processors just so they could match AMD.
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I just gave those example, I didn't want to list every time each of these companies pulled that crap! Actually that was 1133MHz or AMD's PR crap-o-la. The first Tbread was just like the first Hotscott LOL! There is enough to go around, there are NO clean hands here.
 
fubar569 said:
then he doesn't need 4x4 if his business is THAT SERIOUS that he can make up that kind of money like nothing...he NEEDS A BIG ASS WORKSTATION...NOT 4x4

by BIG ASS i mean 4+ physical sockets and gobs upon gobs of RAM backed by SAS storage subsystem...period...4x4 isn't even in his gameplan and SHOULDN'T BE...

4x4 and extreme are just that what was said before...E-PENIS BRAGGING RIGHTS
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WOW, another one who gets it!
 
my only question is..... "What programs will even be able to use all 4 cores?"

since not many programs will be able use it :rolleyes:
 
Tman said:
my only question is..... "What programs will even be able to use all 4 cores?"

since not many programs will be able use it :rolleyes:
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XviD and H.264 encoders do, and that's all that matters to me. Encoding apps get almost perfect performance scaling with more cores, so can never have enough.
 
then people that are that serious about it should have no qualms about dishing out the cash for the correct grade of equipment to do the job...
 
Donnie27 said:
I just gave those example, I didn't want to list every time each of these companies pulled that crap! Actually that was 1133MHz or AMD's PR crap-o-la. The first Tbread was just like the first Hotscott LOL! There is enough to go around, there are NO clean hands here.
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But, AMD did not have to recall them. What kind of company releases a CPU with a floating point bug and an over clocked CPU just to keep the !!!!!!s happy? Come on, to have to recall a CPU..ROFLMAO!!!
 
Met-AL said:
But, AMD did not have to recall them. What kind of company releases a CPU with a floating point bug and an over clocked CPU just to keep the !!!!!!s happy? Come on, to have to recall a CPU..ROFLMAO!!!
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What, should Intel have not recalled them? Again it was rushed and I clearly said BOTH have rushed products to the market. Look at how Crappy AMD 750 Chip set was? Or, what about Athlon64 shipping with non-working AGP motherboards? I say again, this is NOT an Intel = Good vs. AMD =Bad deal. They both have screwed up by rushing products to the market. Competition caused them to.

What's worse than a Company that recalls a product? One who doesn't;)
 
Donnie27 said:
What, should Intel have not recalled them? Again it was rushed and I clearly said BOTH have rushed products to the market. Look at how Crappy AMD 750 Chip set was? Or, what about Athlon64 shipping with non-working AGP motherboards? I say again, this is NOT an Intel = Good vs. AMD =Bad deal. They both have screwed up by rushing products to the market. Competition caused them to.

What's worse than a Company that recalls a product? One who doesn't;)
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You are missing my point.. Intel screwed up so bad they HAD to be recalled. They didn't work!!!!!! Has any other CPU manufacturer...Digital, Cyrix, IDT, AMD, Motorola, Sun, etc ever released a CPU that actually didn't work? No. And it was mainly due to the fact that Intel pushed it way over the limits to acheive that "top performance crown" for the !!!!!!s. This was also the whole point to the P4. Megahertz sells. LOL.
 
Donnie27 said:
No way in hell when even AMD calls it the ultimate enthusiast rig. There are already powerful workstations for folks who need it. Again, its who this and the XQ6800 is aimed at, namely, Gamers. Its what they say, not what I think.
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Excuse me, but there's a difference between what a marketing department says, and what a system can do.
The whole gamer-thing is crap, since there are virtually no games that can take advantage of more than one core, so a 4-core system will be no faster than a 2-core system.
And like I said, these systems are still cheaper than workstations.

I just don't agree with the fact that you'd say my brother would buy such a system because of bragging rights, because bragging is not what he does. He just makes use of the processing power it offers.
Which is far different from gamers who'd buy such a system, and won't even use the extra power. Now that would be bragging rights.

No I posted that the real competition is in the Mid-Ranged lines. This can also be said to a certain Point, Low-end and high profit Servers.
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If the real competition is in the mid-range, why are they releasing such monstrosities then?
Right, because whoever has the most impressive system, will get a better reputation, and will sell better across all ranges.

If Intel launched C2D last year when X2 launched, there's no frickin' way 3800+ sells for as much as $425 LOL! If C2D didn't work or failed, no way AMD cuts prices to current level. Yes, it is as simple as that;) No, what's nonsense is that if AMD didn't have C2D to contend with, they wouldn't be desperate enough to try and launch 4 X 4.
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Yes, so if Intel didn't make AMD desperate, AMD wouldn't have to waste valuable resources on the 4x4, and could have focused on their next-gen processor.
As I say, competition isn't always better. In this case the competition is too fierce, and the balance between Intel and AMD is completely gone.
So your argument won't really hold in the long run, if this continues. AMD currently has nothing to offer for $300 and up, so Intel can do whatever it wants. You could say that because of the competition, there won't be any competition. Not unless AMD finds a way to restore the balance. Which 4x4 isn't, obviously.
 
InorganicMatter said:
XviD and H.264 encoders do, and that's all that matters to me. Encoding apps get almost perfect performance scaling with more cores, so can never have enough.
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Exactly, that's the sorta stuff that my brother does aswell, and a quad-core system is great for that.
 
Met-AL said:
You are missing my point.. Intel screwed up so bad they HAD to be recalled. They didn't work!!!!!! Has any other CPU manufacturer...Digital, Cyrix, IDT, AMD, Motorola, Sun, etc ever released a CPU that actually didn't work? No. And it was mainly due to the fact that Intel pushed it way over the limits to acheive that "top performance crown" for the !!!!!!s. This was also the whole point to the P4. Megahertz sells. LOL.
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Well, technically I'd say AMD should have recalled the Athlon64 aswell.
The memory controller on most of them is bugged (even the new DDR2 ones), and only works when you underclock the memory, when you use 4 strips of RAM.
I'm quite sure that the 1133 MHz P3 would have worked aswell if you'd just underclock it.
AMD just can't afford to recall products, so they don't. Which is not a good thing.
 
Scali2 said:
Well, technically I'd say AMD should have recalled the Athlon64 aswell.
The memory controller on most of them is bugged (even the new DDR2 ones), and only works when you underclock the memory, when you use 4 strips of RAM.
I'm quite sure that the 1133 MHz P3 would have worked aswell if you'd just underclock it.
AMD just can't afford to recall products, so they don't. Which is not a good thing.
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Even at lower memory speeds, the ODMC still has better bandwidth efficiency and latency than the i8xx and i9xx series chipsets. The performance hit was very minimal. Try using a K8 system for an extended period of time with different memory speeds.
 
robberbaron said:
Even at lower memory speeds, the ODMC still has better bandwidth efficiency and latency than the i8xx and i9xx series chipsets. The performance hit was very minimal. Try using a K8 system for an extended period of time with different memory speeds.
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That's not the point, is it?
And you're right, the K8 design can't handle enough bandwidth, so the whole memory controller and its bandwidth is nothing more than a nice marketing tool.
If you do synthetic tests, you see that DDR2 gives nearly twice the raw bandwidth that DDR does...
But funny enough there isn't a single application in the world that gets any faster at all with DDR2, there are only some that are slightly slower.

Anyway, the point is that the hardware isn't 100% functional, and needs to underclock in order to function, it won't work at the specs it's sold at. It should have been recalled, or at least patched, but it never was.
Not saying it's a big deal or anything, just saying that AMD also doesn't always release 100% functional hardware, so it's not just Intel. They both make mistakes.
 
robberbaron said:
Even at lower memory speeds, the ODMC still has better bandwidth efficiency and latency than the i8xx and i9xx series chipsets. The performance hit was very minimal. Try using a K8 system for an extended period of time with different memory speeds.
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Not really, it has Higher or More Bandwidth but that larger amount of Bandwidth is NOT used more efficiently by the Processor or the system. The K8 processor's CORE is still older and clearly starting to show its age. It has no Smart Cache Access, No Smart Memory Access so bandwidth and even Latency isn't as important for C2D.

Scali2 said:
If the real competition is in the mid-range, why are they releasing such monstrosities then? Right, because whoever has the most impressive system, will get a better reputation, and will sell better across all ranges.
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Again dewd, that's driven by competition=P Without Competition, there's no Xxxxx, FXxx or $ X $ to talk about.

Yes, so if Intel didn't make AMD desperate, AMD wouldn't have to waste valuable resources on the 4x4, and could have focused on their next-gen processor.
As I say, competition isn't always better. In this case the competition is too fierce, and the balance between Intel and AMD is completely gone. So your argument won't really hold in the long run, if this continues. AMD currently has nothing to offer for $300 and up, so Intel can do whatever it wants. You could say that because of the competition, there won't be any competition. Not unless AMD finds a way to restore the balance. Which 4x4 isn't, obviously.
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You make my argument stand up very well. Without Competition there's nothing for AMD to get desperate about. Intel didn't come up with Core (all models) because they love or care about us. AMD was kicking Intel's ass in the 4+ socket server sector and doing the nasty to Intel in the 2P arena. X2 was faster than any of Intel's processors last year. They price them according to competition and if Intel had nothing this year, AMD F@ns would still be paying out the Wa-Zoo for them.

Now, with Intel kicking the crap out of AMD, there are Companies that will still back AMD because they want more CHOICE. They support AMD for the sake of competition. It takes 2 to 3 quarters for Markets to move enough so that it would Begin to hurt AMD.
 
Donnie27 said:
. They price them according to competition and if Intel had nothing this year, AMD F@ns would still be paying out the Wa-Zoo for them.
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Exactly. Thanks to Intel and the Core2 we all can get more processing power for our buck. CPU prices were getting insane the past year and hardly any performance improvements were being made and the prices were still holding.
 
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