Picked up G80's

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decapitator said:
Where the hell is the 680i in stock???
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Canada. =) Not sure where my supplier got it from, but he's got EVGA boards to go with the cards. Was very limited stock though, they sold fast. Can't pick it up until Tuesday though. =/
 
decapitator said:
EVGA wants me to return my cards back to Frys :D I just wanted to know if I should register the unopened one and he started to go off on me :eek: So I said first you need to stop talking to me like I'm dirt under your F***ing shoe, its not like I held up the F***ing store or I walked out of there without paying for them. I spent over 1300.00 dollars on your F***ing product, now he gets nice and suggest Frys holds two cards for me on release day( like that is going to happen ) if I return the two I have . :)
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LOL. I laughed when I read this. That's BS.

What are you going to do?
 
mike686 said:
Huh?
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i am attempting to get his issue resolved directly through EVGA instead of having to deal with Fry's, who obviously dont know how to follow directions
 
decapitator said:
I will frys were idiots, they refuse to help
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i figured as much, if they cant figure out how to tell what date to put something out on the shelf, they certainly aren't capable of handling something as complicated as an exchange ROFL
 
nobody_here said:
i am attempting to get his issue resolved directly through EVGA instead of having to deal with Fry's, who obviously dont know how to follow directions
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If only the rest of the world was as tight as the computer enthusiast community...we wouldn't have wars and terrorists and poverty and, and, and. But, then again...game developers would run short of material for future games ;) ...(Just Kidding)...We've got people from all over the world on these forums...it's good to see people from different countries and cultures come together with common interests. Now, we've just gotta work on getting along with real life issues...
 
thespymaster said:
If only the rest of the world was as tight as the computer enthusiast community...we wouldn't have wars and terrorists and poverty and, and, and. But, then again...game developers would run short of material for future games ;) ...(Just Kidding)...We've got people from all over the world on these forums...it's good to see people from different countries and cultures come together with common interests. Now, we've just gotta work on getting along with real life issues...
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we'd have the red nation fighting the green nation
 
i_am_mustang_man said:
we'd have the red nation fighting the green nation
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Not really...the USA never fired a Nuclear missle at the USSR and the USSR never fired on the USA 'cause they were both pretty evenly matched...
 
thespymaster said:
Not really...the USA never fired a Nuclear missle at the USSR and the USSR never fired on the USA 'cause they were both pretty evenly matched...
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I think he kinda meant Nvidia and ATI.. ;)
 
rus7y said:
I think he kinda meant Nvidia and ATI.. ;)
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I know...and that's what I meant...maybe there wouldn't be such a battle over green vs. red because they're pretty evenly matched just like it was back in the Cold War days...pretty evenly matched...and no one fired a shot because of it...
 
Extremetech podcast was poking fun ot that, hehe....green vs green...wtf?
 
thespymaster said:
I know...and that's what I meant...maybe there wouldn't be such a battle over green vs. red because they're pretty evenly matched just like it was back in the Cold War days...pretty evenly matched...and no one fired a shot because of it...
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i was just commenting on the fanaticism experienced on the net



\\\\\

back to topic!!!



can we get a bench of 3D05 w/ 16*12 4xAA 16xAF?
 
i_am_mustang_man said:
as i understood it, the zero degree angle is for looking straight at it, ie you are looking straight down at the ground, that will be the same for all cards

if you see a cobblestone road in the distance, the closer you get to looking along the plane of the texture, the harder it is to display well. iirc for all the above
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For AF differences, it's not a matter of perpendicular angles. It's the plane that you're standing on. If that plane is rotated slightly, the angle changes. It's more like a "roll" thing in roll-pitch-yaw.

If you're looking straight at a wall, in a perpendicular way, it depends on the distance and the degree of AF used (2x or 8x or 16x AF). If it's closer than say, 3 meters away, there's no AF needed. If it's like 8 meters away, 16x AF is needed to make it look just as sharp as at 3 meters away. If it's more than 20 meters away, then you'd need 32x AF or greater for the LOD to be sufficient without seeing horribly sharp aliasing on the textures. The same goes for the zero-degree level (flat) ground plane, depending on the distance that you're looking at horizontally.

The major problem here is that if you're looking at a 22.5-degree, or 67.5-degree slope (rotated either diagonal way), Nvidia cards and older ATI cards could not do any more than 2x AF at those angles. You could see it clearly in the Half Life 2 screenshot from XbitLabs that's a good example of this:

aniso_qual_sm.jpg


For a close-up, click on this link: http://www.xbitlabs.com/misc/pictur...shots/filtering_quality/aniso_qual_bg.jpg&1=1

from webpage: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/quality_vs_quantity_3.html

Apparently, the G80 gets rid of all the angle problems and can display true 16X AF at all angles.
 

so are you saying the issue is distance from a flat surface is improved by AF? because they should just shrink the texture for that (which i'm pretty sure they do)

in the HL2 pics you posted, nVidia's is not as good as ATI's because on the slanted wall to the left of the train tracks, the nV texture gets blurry, and the ATI texture still has defined lines and whatever, on the wall itself.

as the wall gets farther away, the angle gets closer to parallel. ATI has angle independent AF(that's what they call it, right?) (as shown in your pics), whereas nV gets worse with angle considerably faster



*edit*

i'm rereading, and i have a question -

so AF does not control the angle adjustments, but the distance adjustment, keeping textures from being blurry at farther distances?

angle independence aids image quality, but is not directly linked with AF?
 
i_am_mustang_man said:
so are you saying the issue is distance from a flat surface is improved by AF? because they should just shrink the texture for that (which i'm pretty sure they do)

in the HL2 pics you posted, nVidia's is not as good as ATI's because on the slanted wall to the left of the train tracks, the nV texture gets blurry, and the ATI texture still has defined lines and whatever, on the wall itself.

as the wall gets farther away, the angle gets closer to parallel. ATI has angle independent AF(that's what they call it, right?) (as shown in your pics), whereas nV gets worse with angle considerably faster



*edit*

i'm rereading, and i have a question -

so AF does not control the angle adjustments, but the distance adjustment, keeping textures from being blurry at farther distances?

angle independence aids image quality, but is not directly linked with AF?
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The HL2 pics compare ATI HQAF to NVIDIAs G7x AF

ATI's HQAF makes the AF display full 16xAF no matter what angle the texture is displayed at(theoretically, doesn't always happen), that is what angle independent AF is
 
chinesepiratefood said:
The HL2 pics compare ATI HQAF to NVIDIAs G7x AF

ATI's HQAF makes the AF display full 16xAF no matter what angle the texture is displayed at, that is what angle independent AF is
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alright! i'm understanding this finally!

idk why that took so long

prolly cuz i'm at work and keep getting interrupted, or one of many other excuses!
thanks
 
thespymaster said:
I know...and that's what I meant...maybe there wouldn't be such a battle over green vs. red because they're pretty evenly matched just like it was back in the Cold War days...pretty evenly matched...and no one fired a shot because of it...
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Evenly matched enemies is a good thing. The Cold War was more a matter of the fact that both sides knew that once the missiles started flying, there wouldn't be any sides left.
 
krameriffic said:
Evenly matched enemies is a good thing. The Cold War was more a matter of the fact that both sides knew that once the missiles started flying, there wouldn't be any sides left.
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i thought this thread was about graphics cards ;)
 
krameriffic said:
Evenly matched enemies is a good thing. The Cold War was more a matter of the fact that both sides knew that once the missiles started flying, there wouldn't be any sides left.
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america heavily outnumbered russia in armament actually. only reason we didnt bomb russia is because it wouldve sent off a chain reaction that wouldve devastated both countries. but hands down history has shown the us was on a higher level than russia as far as stockpiling arms is concerned.
 
i_am_mustang_man said:
alright! i'm understanding this finally!

idk why that took so long

prolly cuz i'm at work and keep getting interrupted, or one of many other excuses!
thanks
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It might help clear things up for you to back up a step and explain why it was bad in the first place. Angle-DEPENDENT AF (like nVidia's in the HL2 screenshot) was done on purpose to improve performance. Since AF only matters in 3D environments, and since most surfaces with repeating textures in 3D games are either horizontal floors & ceilings or vertical walls, nVidia tweaked its AF to only apply vertically or horizontally, cutting down on the computing of the filtering and thus increasing performance. As games have gotten fancier, angled surfaces have become more common. nVidia had to step up like ATi and stop the picking and choosing, applying the cleanup computations regardless of angle. The G80 has the horsepower to do this without suffering too much on the performance side.

Now, as to why textures look so crappy as they get farther away, if I understand it correctly, this again is done on purpose to improve performance. AF helps fix it with less of a performance hit than would happen by keeping the level of detail the same all the way to the edges of the 3D "world." The color bands in the AF test images show the transitions to levels of decreasing detail off into the distance. Good technique helps blend things to hide any abrupt visible changes between the bands of decreasing detail as they move away from you.

And actually, if you think about it, the fading detail of the textures into the distance adds realism to the scene. In real life, distant patterns would be obscured by air and dust, and would be beyond the focal range of our eyes if we were concentrating on things nearby.

Anyway, hope that's helpful.
 
I have no problem seeing walls 40 feet away. They don't get "blurry". Unless I'm stumbling...but then there's other things to worry about. :D
 
1100 pt diff for using 16xAA vs. 4xAA?

that's not too bad, imo

i bet that looks sweet

i say three cheers for mike, for posting benches and being patient and having [H] cards!
 
Hmm, that's interesting.. like as if the 8800 almost does AA and AF for free!

ARGH!!! I want an 8800 NOW!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Commander Suzdal said:
It might help clear things up for you to back up a step and explain why it was bad in the first place. Angle-DEPENDENT AF (like nVidia's in the HL2 screenshot) was done on purpose to improve performance. Since AF only matters in 3D environments, and since most surfaces with repeating textures in 3D games are either horizontal floors & ceilings or vertical walls, nVidia tweaked its AF to only apply vertically or horizontally, cutting down on the computing of the filtering and thus increasing performance. As games have gotten fancier, angled surfaces have become more common. nVidia had to step up like ATi and stop the picking and choosing, applying the cleanup computations regardless of angle. The G80 has the horsepower to do this without suffering too much on the performance side.

Now, as to why textures look so crappy as they get farther away, if I understand it correctly, this again is done on purpose to improve performance. AF helps fix it with less of a performance hit than would happen by keeping the level of detail the same all the way to the edges of the 3D "world." The color bands in the AF test images show the transitions to levels of decreasing detail off into the distance. Good technique helps blend things to hide any abrupt visible changes between the bands of decreasing detail as they move away from you.

And actually, if you think about it, the fading detail of the textures into the distance adds realism to the scene. In real life, distant patterns would be obscured by air and dust, and would be beyond the focal range of our eyes if we were concentrating on things nearby.

Anyway, hope that's helpful.
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Thanks guys for helping me explain it here.

Merely increasing the negative LOD can bring ugly shimmering since the textures become too sharp (and also severely aliased in the distance). AF gets rid of the LOD problem because it also anti-aliases the textures thus providing for a smooth transition and smoother texture lines. It's not the same thing as FSAA which antialiases the polygon edges.

ATI's new HQ AF algorithm is not truly angle-independent. It is good at all angles except for the 45-degree ones. The G80's AF is truly angle-independent, at last!
 
Fry's employee said:
Its against the law to have the cards.
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I'm just considering how amusing it may be to turn yourself in to the proper authorities. Jury trials and death penalties would ensue, I'm sure.
 
decapitator said:
EVGA wants me to return my cards back to Frys :D I just wanted to know if I should register the unopened one and he started to go off on me :eek: So I said first you need to stop talking to me like I'm dirt under your F***ing shoe, its not like I held up the F***ing store or I walked out of there without paying for them. I spent over 1300.00 dollars on your F***ing product, now he gets nice and suggest Frys holds two cards for me on release day( like that is going to happen ) if I return the two I have . :)
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Against the law???!!!??? Well, if Evga sues or arrests you for that, then you can counter-sue with harrassment charges and stuff like that because you were completely unaware of it. Heck you can sue both Evga and Fry's for serious money!!!

Ahh whatever.. realistically, I find it amusing that he said it was against the law. Couldn't he get any more ridiculous than that? You must've spoken to one of the "higher" employees of Evga like a manager.

If that employee were being sincere, then that employee has just expressed some kind of robotic stupidity, saying that it's against the regulations just like a robot would say it. How robotic is that?!?

Heck, you should've told him that you'd take it back to Fry's if he personally sent you two more of those 8800GTX's for free, to compensate for your troubles!
 
Sigh, and I gave my GF the Zalman passive NB cooler.

Yes, I got my GF into computers :).

I'll make one out of a hunk of copper from a 1U HSF.
 
I called Fry's and asked if they would exchange the cards on release day because the cards were recalled, and they said they know nothing of a recall but if I was not happy with them they would take them back and I had 30 days to do so, their receipt says 14 days so its one lie after another.

They said they would not exchange them with out printed proof of a recall and they could careless if I return them or not, this was a supervisor. :D
 
You are in bit trouble Mr...

Amendment 11: No person or persons shall purchase an 8th generation Geforce card prior to the official launch day at any retail outlets. Such transgressions shall henceforth be punished by The Catapult.

The foresight of the Founding Fathers still amazes me.
 
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