Falcon Northwest FragBox II @ [H] Consumer

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Jason_Wall

[H] Consumer Managing Editor
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To introduce new editor Joey Seiler, we bring you a tale of woe and triumph. There haven't been too many systems in our office that gave us as much trouble as our FragBox did. What makes this experience special is the type of support that we received and the amount of faith that Falcon puts into their products.

We paid a hefty price tag and received a DOA system. Then we received a system that was unstable and poorly assembled. So why is this still a valuable purchase? Because throughout it all, Falcon stayed with us and worked incredibly hard to try to rectify the issues at hand. It was clear that it was going out of its way to make sure we were happy with our purchase... When we put our foot down and demanded a functional system, they hopped to it and said that they would start building our fresh replacement system that day.
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Thanks for reading!
 
Nice review! Thank you.

It shows that Falcon is a good company. EVERY company can have a lemon, but it's the rectification of the situation that sets world-class companies apart from also-rans.
 
They glued the PCI-E power connector to the video card jack?

EDIT: I guess it is. I can see the rationale, but it sure doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you want to upgrade something or trying to troubleshoot.
 
I'm also a bit confused as to why they glue connections inside of the case. I can see the reasoning from a shipping standpoint and the risk of something coming loose, but you would think that the customer aggrivation and chance of damage when they tried to upgrade a component would GREATLY outweigh that.
 
I don't see why anyone would stew on the gluage. It looks like it's hot glue from a glue gun, which would definitely keep the connections from coming loose, but would easily scrape off with even a fingernail, if needs be.

Good review...terrible problems.

Almost every time I read one of these evaluations, it makes me happy that I can build my own systems. I mean, if I dropped over $3k on a system, and had to send it back twice, I think the second time it'd be for a refund. Waiting for the system to ship the first time is bad enough, but a second and third time?

Anyway, it's nice to see them stand up for themselves in their rebuttal that you referenced, and it's nice to see they did do the right thing in the end, too.

damon
 
Good review, but is it just me, or does every system that the Consumer guys touch end up having a major issue. ;) Really, what are the odds of every system being reviewed having an issue. Maybe the Fed-Ex or UPS guys have an issue with your office and the systems are abused before delivery. :D
 
It's good to see you've finally left those bad videos cards behind and moved on to destroying complete systems.

I'm glad to see northwest coming in with a clean slate. There were two things I walked away with.

Temp Monitoring -
Over critical with the tech.. He admitted he didn't use the software and didn't know anything about it. I thought it was great he didn't try to BS you about it. How many gurus claim to know everything? Too many.​
You had a problem with software you installed so chances are pretty good you know more about it than he does. I wouldn't give out any suggested software unless I had personal experience or the company (FNW) had recommended it. If I was pushed I might have suggested going out to download.com and search.​
Overall Score -
I think your overall recommendation was too generous. You received a DOA machine, and then a machine plagued with driver and stability issues. On the third try the system works like the $3,180 champ it should have been in the 1st place.​
The effort FNW puts forth as explained in your review(s) is tremendous. These machines are worth the money people spend. Not everyone may get the complete value, maybe you won’t use the great tech support or maybe you won't push the system limits, but you've set yourself up for success by getting an FNW.​
With that said.... I agree that this is most likely just a worst case scenario, but based on your experience here, I don't feel they earned the rating they were given.​

Thanks again for the great review. I might not always agree with your analysis but I read them all and I’ve referred others to them when they are system shopping.
 
67shelby said:
Good review, but is it just me, or does every system that the Consumer guys touch end up having a major issue. ;) Really, what are the odds of every system being reviewed having an issue. Maybe the Fed-Ex or UPS guys have an issue with your office and the systems are abused before delivery. :D
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I was thinking the same thing.
What are the odds that you guys keep getting bad systems?

Good article though. I'm glad I can build and troubleshoot on my own.
 
A conclusion that could be gleaned from the two FNW reviews is that you should count on receiving two systems before you get a working system. No real biggie but I thought it worth mentioning. ;)

Jim
 
Well, I'm happy that the computer I got from Falcon only had problems with the shipping (as you stated in your review, but not of the same flavour) I had difficulty with UPS and how the packages had each been tagged with a value of $5,300. So when I recieved the packages, they also came with a bill of $900 each parcel (YIKES). Thankfully, I contacted Falcon and they cleared the problem and I was delivered my packages with a single payment.

I've been waiting ever so patiently to see a review of a Mach V, like the system I recieved... but to no avail. It's a shame that you have recieved only lemons so far, but I think that's a small percentage of the machines shipped out. Atleast I would think so, considering Falcons reputation.

Anyways, I love your reviews and this one was no different. You've devised an awesome system for reviewing the whole experience, which gives builders a chance to right any wrong doing on their part without much reprocussions.
 
Is it just me, or did you guys just get another system with a bad video card? Your batting average is .....simply astounding.

 
I second the motion.....you guys have the "kiss of death"......maybe it has something to do with the air in Texas, I dont know......you sure have a sleu of problems.

Anyway, great article.

I think recommended with reservation would be better. Despite coming from the big boys of custom builders.......yes, they handled this problem well beyond what any other builder would have done......I'd like to see what Dell or Alienware would have done....(snicker), but how can you fully recommend a system that had to go back twice, and when returned wasnt what you ordered in the first place???? Changing that face plate would have really pissed me off. Sure it's cosmetic, but it isnt what you wanted and it looks like it should belong to a teenager. Attention to details is what gets you recommended.
 
Great Review and I agree with your final score... But I can't believe how many systems you review that have major problems !!!

Are you just saving all the flawless reviews for a rainy day ??, or are they just that boring.... ;)

I LOVE reading the tech support sections of your reviews. If I didn't build my own systems then I would seriously consider FNW, as they clearly go out of thier way to make sure you are satisfied.

*brownie points for the free coffee !!!

mike

Oh yeah ... Whats wrong with Corsair memory??.. sure it's not what was original , but maybe there is a reason they changed it. As for the faceplate not being the same, that kinda sucks.
 
Ive noticed on these and other forums people always posting about various pieces of bad hardware they recieve. I wonder if the problem isn't bigger than people realize - I have personally recieved 2 bad video cards, 2 bad motherboards and 3 bad LCD screens this year.

I would really like to see some kind of in-depth study done on this. I wonder that if their was a large scale poll, etc. that we wouldn't discover an alarming amount of faulty hardware being sold in the market. It would be really interesting, for sure.
 
How Loud is the fragbox? I got an ALienware Area-51 55000 Desktop. Which is similarly equiped as the one you reveiwed a while ago. It is pretty loud too but never gets any louder no matter what i do whuich is good. Would you say the fragbox is comparable in noisiness to the alienware system? Or is the fragbox louder? :eek:
 
Bad question but is the power supply hanging at a real bad angle in that system?

2 other issues I see.

1. The front audio ports need to be blocked if they are not connected. A rubber plug would even be better then the ports just sitting open like that.

2. If the system has a sound card added they need to cover the onboard audio ports. If you look at like dell and hp they put plastic covers over ports they disable. While not a huge deal if someone was buying a gaming machine that didn't know much about computers this could lead to them hooking up stuff wrong and more tech support time.

I really like where you reviews are going I just think things like the above should be looked at harder. You know where to hook up the speakers but would someone buying a kid a gaming system know?
 
Standpoint said:
Ive noticed on these and other forums people always posting about various pieces of bad hardware they recieve. I wonder if the problem isn't bigger than people realize - I have personally recieved 2 bad video cards, 2 bad motherboards and 3 bad LCD screens this year.

I would really like to see some kind of in-depth study done on this. I wonder that if their was a large scale poll, etc. that we wouldn't discover an alarming amount of faulty hardware being sold in the market. It would be really interesting, for sure.
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Bingo! There is a profound industry-wide QA problem. As we talk with different folks around the country, component failures are steeply on the rise. It's hard to get any of them to go on the record about it, because no one wants to complain about their supplier.

We find shipping to play a big role, though. Systems that have little-to-no damage usually have little-to-no problems.
 
Standpoint said:
Ive noticed on these and other forums people always posting about various pieces of bad hardware they recieve....
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though I agree with your concern that it may be more widespread than reported - a devil's advocate would say that satisfied customers and owners don't necessarily speak up to rave about products as often and with the same vigor as dissatisfied customers.
Without that 'satisfied' demographic chiming in, it's tough to gauge how 'widespread' these QA issues actually are.
 
grizzed said:
It's good to see you've finally left those bad videos cards behind and moved on to destroying complete systems.
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Hey, we aim to please. :)

Temp Monitoring -
Over critical with the tech.. He admitted he didn't use the software and didn't know anything about it. I thought it was great he didn't try to BS you about it. How many gurus claim to know everything? Too many.​
You had a problem with software you installed so chances are pretty good you know more about it than he does. I wouldn't give out any suggested software unless I had personal experience or the company (FNW) had recommended it. If I was pushed I might have suggested going out to download.com and search.​
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This took five seconds. If I wanted to spend a little more time, I'd investigate each link and see how many were appropriate. He could have also asked around the office if anyone used a monitoring utility for their AMD chip.

Of course, we prefer that they say "I don't know" rather than give us some BS. But this wasn't a complicated problem. As we said, in the context of the hours and hours spent with us by other techs, the few minutes needed to try to address this issue went sorely missing.

Overall Score -
I think your overall recommendation was too generous. You received a DOA machine, and then a machine plagued with driver and stability issues. On the third try the system works like the $3,180 champ it should have been in the 1st place.​
The effort FNW puts forth as explained in your review(s) is tremendous. These machines are worth the money people spend. Not everyone may get the complete value, maybe you won’t use the great tech support or maybe you won't push the system limits, but you've set yourself up for success by getting an FNW.​
With that said.... I agree that this is most likely just a worst case scenario, but based on your experience here, I don't feel they earned the rating they were given.​
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I find your statements a bit contradictory. Their efforts are why we recommended this system. After talking with Kelt, the frequency of our problems happening across the board is extremely sparse. We're confident in Falcon's ability to solve most any problem. As you say, the FNW experience is worth the money - and we agree. You also said that the customer sets themselves up for success by purchasing a FNW - and we agree with that, as well. That sounds like some good rationale to recommend a company.
 
I don't know. I feel like you guys are really trying to make good w/FNW and though that's all cool for your relationship with them, I feel that your evaluation is somewhat tainted. This is my opinion--no disrespect intended.

I think you guys experienced too many issues to sincerely recommend this product. As already pointed out, if our community experts (you guys) keep having problems (with the same manufacturer), odds are, this is bigger problem than we think.
 
magoo said:
I think recommended with reservation would be better. Despite coming from the big boys of custom builders.......yes, they handled this problem well beyond what any other builder would have done......I'd like to see what Dell or Alienware would have done....(snicker), but how can you fully recommend a system that had to go back twice, and when returned wasnt what you ordered in the first place???? Changing that face plate would have really pissed me off. Sure it's cosmetic, but it isnt what you wanted and it looks like it should belong to a teenager. Attention to details is what gets you recommended.
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Thanks for your thoughts.

If we really wanted to, we could have pissed and moaned about our third system because of the faceplate and different RAM, and we're sure Falcon would have fixed it. Really, the RAM issue isn't a big deal because we actually got better RAM in the Corsair. And the faceplate actually costs $10 more, so we almost got a couple of free upgrades, despite it not being what we wanted. Our first system was exactly what we ordered, though - minus a functional PSU.

I hear you, though. The rationale we came from is that not many users will have these issues - at least we hope not, for their sake. If Falcon is willing to spend the time that they spent with us on our problems, helping out other folks should be a snap.
 
Mike160 said:
Are you just saving all the flawless reviews for a rainy day ??, or are they just that boring.... ;)

Oh yeah ... Whats wrong with Corsair memory??.. sure it's not what was original , but maybe there is a reason they changed it. As for the faceplate not being the same, that kinda sucks.
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To be honest, yeah, flawless systems generally make for boring tech support sections, but it's nice to be able to stay on schedule for an article rather than having to wait for replacement parts.

Not a thing. It was just different than what we originally received, which we thought was a bit strange, but there's nothing wrong with it. But yes, if we were a normal customer, we would have asked for a new faceplate. Hell, that might have even meant another full RMA servicing to swap out all of the components.
 
adonn78 said:
How Loud is the fragbox? I got an ALienware Area-51 55000 Desktop. Which is similarly equiped as the one you reveiwed a while ago. It is pretty loud too but never gets any louder no matter what i do whuich is good. Would you say the fragbox is comparable in noisiness to the alienware system? Or is the fragbox louder? :eek:
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I think that the Alienware is the second loudest system we've had - the first being the Prysma from Maingear. No, the Fbox was not as loud as our AW.
 
dilbert2006183231005.gif


All I can say is, at least FNW aims to please. A much better service than alot of other integrators. It seems to me that they understand they're handling their customers' hard-earned 3500$ (but yes, a month or two away from BF2 can make you violent :p)...
 
Pkirk618 said:
I don't know. I feel like you guys are really trying to make good w/FNW and though that's all cool for your relationship with them, I feel that your evaluation is somewhat tainted. This is my opinion--no disrespect intended.

I think you guys experienced too many issues to sincerely recommend this product. As already pointed out, if our community experts (you guys) keep having problems (with the same manufacturer), odds are, this is bigger problem than we think.
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Thanks for your thoughts - we're sorry you feel that way. Given our previous experiences with them, it was paramount for us to give a very honest article - regardless of the outcome. We wanted to give Falcon as much rope as they wanted in order to succeed or fail. This was a tough article to score because of ALL of the problems, but in the end, we still had warm fuzzies about this company. Minus a couple of minor episoides, we felt very comfortable with the support and commitment to customer satisfaction that we received.

What's much more important than what or how many issues we had is how the company dealt with it. The biggest problem that we saw is that they likely didn't test our RMA system - if they would have, they would have seen it crash and not sent it out. We're very confident of that, and in talking with Kelt, he was surprised and really quite upset that a system left their facility in that condition. They built test systems to test out the sound driver BIOS fix, and eventually built us an entirely new system. Our support experience was peppered with "extra-mile" treatment, and that's damn hard to find.
 
Good review.

I was a little surprised at how high the rating was until I thought about the extra-mile factor. That really is rare in this day and age. I've got to say that were I to stop building my own computers, I'd probably by from FNW because of it.
 
But yes, if we were a normal customer, we would have asked for a new faceplate.
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Isn't the idea of these evaluations to give the "normal customer" the best look at a company's product from their perspective?

Corsair ram, new faceplate and anything else looked at like a "free upgrade" is not an acceptable way to view this. If you received ram or faceplate of lesser value, what should the consumer do? It's still an issue that customers need to consider when dealing with FNW IMO. You might not get what you ordered then again, you might get more...?

...and DOC, thanks for replying to our rants, concerns or whatever you wanna call it :) It means you guys care and that's important!!
 
felt very comfortable with the support and commitment to customer satisfaction that we received.
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that right there seems to be the reason why you recommend them. I can see that. Then again...I could see it another way too ;)
 
Pkirk618 said:
Isn't the idea of these evaluations to give the "normal customer" the best look at a company's product from their perspective?

Corsair ram, new faceplate and anything else looked at like a "free upgrade" is not an acceptable way to view this. If you received ram or faceplate of lesser value, what should the consumer do? It's still an issue that customers need to consider when dealing with FNW IMO. You might not get what you ordered then again, you might get more...?
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This is true, but it had been two months and we hadn't been able to do any testing. We were just happy to get a machine that worked. If we had even a suspicion that Falcon wouldn't have replaced the faceplate, we would have explored it.

The reason that we didn't explore it isn't because we got "free upgrades." We didn't because the time that we would have spent on doing it wouldn't have added much to what we already knew about their support. The only thing truly wrong with our 3rd system is that we had the wrong faceplate, and that didn't affect the normal operation of the machine. They don't note a brand of RAM in their configurator, so it's up to them what brand they put in their systems.

It's certainly possible that more incorrect parts could have come back. But FNW had already extensively demonstrated that they'll make everything right if there is a problem.
 
What's much more important than what or how many issues we had is how the company dealt with it. The biggest problem that we saw is that they likely didn't test our RMA system - if they would have, they would have seen it crash and not sent it out. We're very confident of that, and in talking with Kelt, he was surprised and really quite upset that a system left their facility in that condition. They built test systems to test out the sound driver BIOS fix, and eventually built us an entirely new system. Our support experience was peppered with "extra-mile" treatment, and that's damn hard to find.

I couldnt agree more with this statement. Falcon went a mile plus to get the system fixed.....and I'll really give them that without argument......the RAM replacement was no big deal and maybe part of the fix....I wouldnt be upset at all getting Corsair......its just the little things that bug me.....sent back once, worse when returned, sent back again, fixed; but now the details you liked and selected arent there. You state in the first page or so that you much preferred the Falcon faceplate......oops, you got the other one. Not a huge issue but given all the troubles, if it was me.....it may have been the straw that broke the preverbial camel's back.
 
for Doc...hehe true but the bottom line still is that you had to deal with all this just to get something that worked. Despite the support rec'd by FNW is doesn't make a customer feel all warm and fuzzy knowing that they might have to deal with problems before getting something so expensive to work properly.

IOW, does knowing that FNW will take care of you make you wanna deal with the potential problems you might initially deal with (considering their record that is)?

I'd like to have a system working in the beginning that met exactly the specs I ordered. The rest is gravy really. They can take care of you all day, all year long...it doesn't take away the fact you are without a working system. From a customer's point of view....a customer who may not have another computer at home while waiting for their system to be fixed might need to consider all of this before going this route. I could hear it now..."the system was dead the first time, the second time still had issues...but they took care of me." They're supposed to do all that. That's my point Doc.
 
Maybe you guys should physically open the system *AFTER* you test it. Contamination an all. . . :eek:
 
Pkirk618 said:
I could hear it now..."the system was dead the first time, the second time still had issues...but they took care of me." They're supposed to do all that. That's my point Doc.
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Haha - I gotcha. Our point is that there are only a couple of other integrators that would go to the lengths FNW did to address that. I hear you, though.
 
Another excellent and informative article, but I still think there needs to be some refinement put into your tech support. I think an 8.5 is way beyond what Falcon deserved based on your own account of the situation. I certainly understand that their professional courtesy and willingess to fix problems is unrivaled; however, it seems to me that once they got their hands dirty in some real repair work, they floundered. To be honest, I feel that their actual work with your system in their shop was shoddy at best (i.e. not gluing the wires to original spec, not rebuilding your system to original spec, letting a DOA system out of the hopper and THEN shipping you back an ustable system after they attempt to fix the damaged system, not helping with temp monitoring on a small form factor/high performance PC). Maybe if they could get repairs right the first time, they could charge a little less than $3200 for the system. Because in the end, you have to remember that you are paying for their gracious RMA's in the premium price of the system.

Furthermore, they should be able to answer your calls immediately if you pay that much for a system, though it is admirable that they hold to their promises.

Thanks for the review and I hope to see some more great Falcon systems in the upcoming reviews.
 
Pkirk618 said:
I'd like to have a system working in the beginning that met exactly the specs I ordered
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For the majority of people who order Falcon computers, we get a product that works out of the box. Mine even went through customs and came out in perfect working condition! So, I don't understand how the crew keeps getting lemons.

I'm not questioning the reviewers, since we all know that lemons exist... but sheesh, they all seem to be heading to your office.
 
Pkirk618 said:
for Doc...hehe true but the bottom line still is that you had to deal with all this just to get something that worked. Despite the support rec'd by FNW is doesn't make a customer feel all warm and fuzzy knowing that they might have to deal with problems before getting something so expensive to work properly.

IOW, does knowing that FNW will take care of you make you wanna deal with the potential problems you might initially deal with (considering their record that is)?

I'd like to have a system working in the beginning that met exactly the specs I ordered. The rest is gravy really. They can take care of you all day, all year long...it doesn't take away the fact you are without a working system. From a customer's point of view....a customer who may not have another computer at home while waiting for their system to be fixed might need to consider all of this before going this route. I could hear it now..."the system was dead the first time, the second time still had issues...but they took care of me." They're supposed to do all that. That's my point Doc.
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Just to reiterate Jason's point, given the evidence we've seen of an industry-wide QC problem, it really wouldn't be fair to berate an OEM just because the system we ordered initially had problems (unless of course the problems stemmed from the machine being built incorrectly). To be statistcally accurate, we'd have to buy 100 systems from each OEM to see what percentage arrived with hardware issues. That's just not practical.

The fact is, all integrators send out the occasional bad system. Some more often than others, maybe; but what really matters is what they do to fix problems when they arise. We didn't have any major issues with our iBUYPOWER system, but the after-sale support was abyssmal. Should FNW received a lower score than iBUYPOWER because the FNW didn't work right off the bat? Which company would you rather buy from?
 
Tim.Roper said:
Which company would you rather buy from?
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That's just it, although plagued by problems with the rigs received for evaulation... Falcon holds a good reputation and goes beyond the call of duty to make sure their customers are customers who come back.

I know in the future I look forward to upgrading through them, and if I ever buy a boutique again it will no doubt be a Mach V.
 
but what really matters is what they do to fix problems when they arise
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Tim, I agree with you.

But your ([H]'s) purchasing history with FNW speaks loudly. Buying 100 OEM computers isn't practical, you're right. I'm assessing this based on this and subsequent evaluations.

The fact is, all integrators send out the occasional bad system.
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again, this doesn't make having problems with FNW any easier to digest. We can debate these issues all day long. We can quote statistics too. In the end, it's the consumer that has to eat the good with the bad. Buyer beware is paramount. You guys are making us aware therefore their rating should IMO coincide with the facts.

There's plenty of garbage out there being sold to consumers. Just because they can fix what they should have caught (if quality control was done-properly) is not why you should recommend this product. Things happen, I know and FNW is a good company--I won't debate that. It just bother me that this system is being recommended based on something that is expected like good technical support--at least not by itself.

We don't expect to have to deal with all the trouble you guys have that's for sure.

Should FNW received a lower score than iBUYPOWER because the FNW didn't work right off the bat? Which company would you rather buy from?
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neither. There's other places to buy if I were in the market so I don't have deal with such a decision. :) Consumers have this option too.
 
Nate_MachV said:
I'm not questioning the reviewers, since we all know that lemons exist... but sheesh, they all seem to be heading to your office.
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Look at it this way, if [H] gets most/all the lemons, there's that many less for us!

Hooray for [H]! :D
 
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