XBOX 360 HD-DVD to cost $199

M

Marvelous

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I think this deal blows...

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2006/sep06/09-27X06ShowcasePR.mspx

At X06, exciting details about the highly anticipated Xbox 360 HD DVD Player were also revealed. Available in mid-November 2006 in North America for $199.99 (estimated retail price)*, in the U.K., France and Germany for €199.99 (£129.99) (estimated retail price)* and other territories in 2007, the Xbox 360 HD DVD Player comes with the Universal Pictures blockbuster film Peter Jackson’s “King Kong” on HD DVD (for a limited time) and the Xbox 360 Universal Media Remote. Users can just add Xbox 360 HD DVD Player to Xbox 360 to create the ultimate home-theater experience.

“The Xbox 360 HD DVD Player is the best high-definition movie experience and value on the market,” Moore said. “The reviews, the word of mouth and the consumer response have all been crystal clear — HD DVD is the format of choice. We’re not forcing movie technology on game players but are instead letting them choose how to personalize their experiences. If they want HD DVD, there’s no better value out there.”

The Xbox 360 HD DVD Player offers up to six times higher resolution than DVD, and as part of the fall 2006 console update all Xbox 360 consoles will have the ability to output native resolution 1080p games and movies. Users can enjoy blockbuster HD DVD releases, with more than 150 titles available by the holidays from major movie studios including HBO, Paramount Pictures, StudioCanal, Universal Studios, New Line Entertainment and Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc.
 
man i am so excited about that you have no idea.

i have been using my 360 for a year now and feel i have my moneys worth. now for 200 bucks if i want i can get a hd dvd drive! plus for free i can run my 360 at 1080p
 
How does this deal blow??? Am I missing something?? What's the cheapest HD-DVD/Blu-ray player out there right now?
 
OMoT said:
Me + xbox360 - hdtv - $= No hdDVD for me
Click to expand...

Maybe you have no money because you can't do basic math... :p

It should be:

My wallet - xbox360 - hdtv = no HDDVD for me
 
tys90 said:
How does this deal blow??? Am I missing something?? What's the cheapest HD-DVD/Blu-ray player out there right now?
Click to expand...

Thats what I'm thinking. I mean a hd dvd player is 500 bucks. So far I've read a bunch of people have had issues with the menu software as well. With this it would be easy for MS to upgrade the software as it comes out.
 
The Xbox 360 HD DVD Player offers up to six times higher resolution than DVD, and as part of the fall 2006 console update all Xbox 360 consoles will have the ability to output native resolution 1080p games and movies. Users can enjoy blockbuster HD DVD releases, with more than 150 titles available by the holidays from major movie studios including HBO, Paramount Pictures, StudioCanal, Universal Studios, New Line Entertainment and Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc.*[/I]
Click to expand...

*Assuming the movie you're playing doesn't use ICT. In simple language, some of the HD-DVD movies you buy will not run in high-definition when using this Xbox360 drive.

Quick run down for those unfamiliar with the situation.

-Both HDDVD and blu-ray utilize new copy protection systems. One of these is "High-Bandwidth Digitial Copy Protection" (HDCP), which 'protects' the signal from the player to the TV.

-Some movies will not run in HD unless they have a HDCP-compatable output. This decision is made by the publishers on a per-movie basis; so, for example "Ice Age" might run in HD, but "Ice Age 2" might not.

-HDCP is only available when using a digital interface (HDMI or DVI). The Xbox360 does not offer digital video output, so you might be stuck watching watching SDTV, despite your $200 purchase and $20 movie... :(

-None of the current HD-DVD/blu-ray disks use such restriction, but nothing is stopping them from releasing ICT-enabled movies in a couple of years.

----
Did I make any mistakes? Please, feel free to correct me.
 
Yes, you made a mistake, right off the top:

PikachuMan said:
*Assuming the movie you're playing doesn't use ICT. In simple language, some of the HD-DVD movies you buy will not run in high-definition when using this Xbox360 drive.
Click to expand...

The above statement is definitive instead of speculative.
PikachuMan said:
-None of the current HD-DVD/blu-ray disks use such restriction, but nothing is stopping them from releasing ICT-enabled movies in a couple of years.
Click to expand...
So, by your own statement none of the "HD-DVD movies you buy will not run in high-definition when using the Xbox360 drive."

I'm all for hating on ICT/HDCP and future-proofing when possible, but the bottom line is that no ICT-enabled movies have been released yet. The fact that they haven't, and the fact that at least one potentially big piece of hardware doesn't support HDCP output (the above-mentioned Xbox 360), as well as the fact that there are many HDTVs out there without a digital output, all add up to a smaller and smaller chance that the ICT will be used in the future. In other words, the more products that are bought without HDCP compliant connections, the more customers who would be pissed off by the studios enabling the ICT.

One of the reasons that DVD copy protection has not bothered most people is that for the vast majority of users it's completely transparent. One can buy virtually any region-appropriate DVD player and play every legitimate, region-appropriate DVD movie with it (there are players with compatibility problems but they typically have nothing to do with copy protection and instead are due to build quality). If the studios realize that ICT via HDCP would change this and make the copy protection odious to a significant portion of their customer base, they could just skip it entirely. I'm certain that this is why they haven't enabled the ICT flag to this point.

Personally, I would evaluate the Xbox 360's HD-DVD on its current merits rather than its potential merits in the future. If you think that HD-DVD has movies that you want to see in HD (there aren't enough yet for me to feel comfortable jumping into the HD-DVD/Blu-ray pool) and you're willing to spend $200, then go for it. If not, then don't buy it. Adding thoughts about ICT to the mix doesn't make a lot of sense until that protection actually get used.

I would also note that I would be leery of buying either new format (for playing movies) at this point for the simple fact that these are all first-generation products. DVD players matured a lot in their first couple years of availability, and even my Zenith purchased two years in had trouble with some discs purchased two years after that. In other words, I don't think that either the X360 add-on or the Sony PS3 Blu-ray drive are likely to be good solutions for more than a few years before a replacement player (probably costing less than $150) will be needed anyway.
 
-HDCP is only available when using a digital interface (HDMI or DVI). The Xbox360 does not offer digital video output, so you might be stuck watching watching SDTV, despite your $200 purchase and $20 movie
Click to expand...

just FYI, at GameFest in Seattle earlier this year, MS gave a demo on the accessories available to 360 owners, and someone brought up the "problem" of no HDMI cable. the person giving the presentation said while a HDMI cable isnt announced, one could be produced if it does become a problem.
 
-None of the current HD-DVD/blu-ray disks use such restriction, but nothing is stopping them from releasing ICT-enabled movies in a couple of years.
Click to expand...

and in a couple of years, we can go down to Wal-Mart and buy a 50 dollar HD-DVD player.


Right now, I see no reason to jump from DVD to any of the next gen formats. After looking at them, the quality simply doesn't justify the price.
 
I fully expect to pay more than £130 for a HD-DVD Drive for my PC, so i'll probably get the 360's addon once some decent movies come out and not just over-priced films i've already got.
 
HD-DVD Drive + King Kong HD-DVD movie + Universal Media Remote for $199 = incredible value for people who already have a 360.


So how was my math?


P.S.

I find it funny how all these armchair engineers in internet forums seem to know more about the Xbox 360 and its capabilities to output, or not output, digital video signals then the actual engineers. The fact is that MS has been deliberately vague about the possibility of HDMI output in the future.
 
That's exactly it. People simply don't frickin know what Microsoft has planned, yet they act like they are some insider source working deep in MS's secret underground laboratory. That is just one heck of a value, but i'll have to pass since I already own an HD-DVD player.

As for the person talking about there not being enough differences, try watching some movies like Phantom of the Opera, The Chronicles of Riddick, and compare the regular versions to the HD versiosn. The difference is simply eye ball popping as you'll never want to watch a standard defnition movie again. Also keep in mind that more and more HD-DVD titles are now coming out with support for Dolby TrueHD and other lossless audio formats. The Toshiba players even have a hardware decoder built in, so that you can enjoy these new audio formats as long as your reciever has standard analogue inputs on it.
 
I'm all for hating on ICT/HDCP and future-proofing when possible, but the bottom line is that no ICT-enabled movies have been released yet. The fact that they haven't, and the fact that at least one potentially big piece of hardware doesn't support HDCP output (the above-mentioned Xbox 360), as well as the fact that there are many HDTVs out there without a digital output, all add up to a smaller and smaller chance that the ICT will be used in the future. In other words, the more products that are bought without HDCP compliant connections, the more customers who would be pissed off by the studios enabling the ICT.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to negate your point, but I feel you are over-estimating the resistance consumers will have to HDCP.

The vast majority of the HDTVs sold for the past few years have an HDMI connection. Every HD-DVD or blu-ray player has an HDMI connection (this xbox360 add-on being the lone exception).

For most consumers, the "fix" will be as simple as buying a new cable.

I realise that many consumers might not like the solution, but it looks to be a pretty smooth transition towards HDMI/HDCP over the next couple of years.
 
PikachuMan said:
I'm not trying to negate your point, but I feel you are over-estimating the resistance consumers will have to HDCP.

The vast majority of the HDTVs sold for the past few years have an HDMI connection. Every HD-DVD or blu-ray player has an HDMI connection (this xbox360 add-on being the lone exception).

For most consumers, the "fix" will be as simple as buying a new cable.

I realise that many consumers might not like the solution, but it looks to be a pretty smooth transition towards HDMI/HDCP over the next couple of years.
Click to expand...

The vast majority of TV's that have an HDMI port are still not HDCP compliant. You need more than just HDMI....

Even today the vast majority of HDTV's dont support HDCP.
 
Erasmus354 said:
The vast majority of TV's that have an HDMI port are still not HDCP compliant. You need more than just HDMI....

Even today the vast majority of HDTV's dont support HDCP.
Click to expand...

Really? I was under the impression most, if not all, HDMI outputs also used HDCP. It would really screw up HDCP adoption if there wasn't a link between the two.
 
Erasmus354 said:
The vast majority of TV's that have an HDMI port are still not HDCP compliant. You need more than just HDMI....

Even today the vast majority of HDTV's dont support HDCP.
Click to expand...

Actually, that's not true. Virtually every new HDTV sold today (there are still a few exceptions, usually in the very cheap pricing realm) has either DVI or HDMI inputs that are HDCP compliant. Further, I don't recall ever seeing an HDMI port listed on an HDTV that did not also support HDCP. Now, there are some HDTVs out there (not many) that have non-HDCP DVI ports, but the window for purchasing those sets was very short, so there are few out there.

All that said, there are a goodly number of HDTVs that were purchased before either DVI or HDMI were available as options - a few years worth of manufacturing. These sets have either only component inputs for HD material or component and VGA (a few even have RGBHV). My Samsung 27", for example, was purchased before digital video input was considered a priority and thus has only component inputs (as a bonus, it won't accept a 720p signal, only taking NTSC/480p/1080i - luckily, I got it cheap at the time). Again, this is not a rare thing, and it's absolutely a consideration for the studios and manufacturers when they consider forcing digital links on people.
 
Considering the price of a stand-alone player, if you already own an Xbox 360 this is a pretty good deal, in my opinion. I still have to get a 360 (I'm hoping to by November), and although I'm interested in the HD-DVD add-on, I may hold off and wait on it. Especially since I don't even have an HDTV, and am stuck with a 19inch regular old television. Still, it could be something I pick up down the road.
 
PikachuMan said:
Really? I was under the impression most, if not all, HDMI outputs also used HDCP. It would really screw up HDCP adoption if there wasn't a link between the two.
Click to expand...

All the HDMI HDTV's in the last couple of years DO support HDCP, but those before that, eh, maybe not so much.

I'm torn about this as deals go, but it's definitely tempting. Or at least, it *would* be if I had a working Xbox 360, *sigh*...

Jason
 
There have been tons of signs pointing to an HDMI-enabled 360 model for some time. Spend a few days at some of the Xbox forums, and you'll see.

ICT isn't a huge problem, studios say they will wait until at least 2009 or when "HDCP HDMI connections are more widespread".

HDCP enbabled HDMI is standard as of now and has been for at least a year and a half. The majority of early HD adopters have moved on to new HDCP enabled sets, and all of the new-comers have it off the bat, so penetration should be relatively quick, and thus ICT shouldn't be a problem for the majority within the few coming years.
 
If it gets good reviews i plan on picking one up. I'm a sucker for HD shit
 
lesman said:
ICT isn't a huge problem, studios say they will wait until at least 2009 or when "HDCP HDMI connections are more widespread".
Click to expand...

Here is my thought on this. You will have a good solid 2 to 2.5 years before ICT will be used by what the studios have been saying. Maybe longer. By the time that they decided to do it you should be able to pick up a nice cheap hd-dvd player(if blueray doesn't kill it). Hell chances are you will be able to get a good price on a player that plays both standards by then. I think if you have a 360 and a hd tv now it is a good deal.
 
Do you guys think that someone will find a way for it to work on a desktop rather than a 360? I mean in todays day-an-age im sure someone will, but one question remains...does USB have the bandwidth for HDDVD content? I didnt think it did but I could be wrong.
 
DangerIsGo said:
Do you guys think that someone will find a way for it to work on a desktop rather than a 360? I mean in todays day-an-age im sure someone will, but one question remains...does USB have the bandwidth for HDDVD content? I didnt think it did but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

USB 2.0 has a peak bandwidth of 480 Mbps. While that peak is virtually never achieved (for various reasons), it's over 20 times the speed needed to transfer MPEG-2-encoded 1080i streams and over 10 times the speed needed to transfer MPEG-2-encoded 1080p streams - and MPEG-2 is the least efficient codec available for use on HD-DVD and Blu-ray. So, yes, USB has plenty of speed available for compressed HD content. :)
 
PikachuMan said:
*Assuming the movie you're playing doesn't use ICT. In simple language, some of the HD-DVD movies you buy will not run in high-definition when using this Xbox360 drive.

Quick run down for those unfamiliar with the situation.

-Both HDDVD and blu-ray utilize new copy protection systems. One of these is "High-Bandwidth Digitial Copy Protection" (HDCP), which 'protects' the signal from the player to the TV.

-Some movies will not run in HD unless they have a HDCP-compatable output. This decision is made by the publishers on a per-movie basis; so, for example "Ice Age" might run in HD, but "Ice Age 2" might not.

-HDCP is only available when using a digital interface (HDMI or DVI). The Xbox360 does not offer digital video output, so you might be stuck watching watching SDTV, despite your $200 purchase and $20 movie... :(

-None of the current HD-DVD/blu-ray disks use such restriction, but nothing is stopping them from releasing ICT-enabled movies in a couple of years.

----
Did I make any mistakes? Please, feel free to correct me.
Click to expand...

The interview they had on ign said that 1080p is possible over the vga cable because it is analog.
 
I won't be buying one unless the movie prices come down to where DVD prices are. I won't pay a premium for HD-DVD, it's just not that much better than DVD quality right now.
 
Babbster said:
USB 2.0 has a peak bandwidth of 480 Mbps. While that peak is virtually never achieved (for various reasons), it's over 20 times the speed needed to transfer MPEG-2-encoded 1080i streams and over 10 times the speed needed to transfer MPEG-2-encoded 1080p streams - and MPEG-2 is the least efficient codec available for use on HD-DVD and Blu-ray. So, yes, USB has plenty of speed available for compressed HD content. :)
Click to expand...

I believe every HD-DVD, or every title with the exception of very few uses VC1.

As for prices of HD-DVDs, many of them are actually pretty reasonable and are no more than the amount of money Disney is charging for standard DVD versions of their stuff. As for whether it's worth it or not, that's going to be up to each individual. I think the difference in image quality is simply breathtaking. My TV is limited to 720p, so the difference is going to be even greater in 1080i, and 1080p. It looks like Microsoft's HD-DVD add-on might be the very first player on the market that actually plays HD-DVDs in 1080p.
 
junehhan said:
I believe every HD-DVD, or every title with the exception of very few uses VC1.
Click to expand...
Indeed. As I recall, only the first small batch of Blu-ray releases used MPEG-2 and then they started using VC1.
 
CodeX said:
Maybe you have no money because you can't do basic math... :p

It should be:

My wallet - xbox360 - hdtv = no HDDVD for me
Click to expand...



I think he was saying he has an xbox360 and no hdtv, so he won't be getting/needing an HDDVD player. ;)

I on the other hand, might be getting this drive. $199 isn't bad IMO. Regular DVD's look pretty good on my TV already, but 5x the picture quality? I'm going to look into this further.
 
I'll get one, I'm not convinced of hd-dvd's longevity atm as more studios are signed up to Blu-Ray, however as I'm getting a PS3 as well I can afford to hold out on getting a nice standalone player until that format battle is over :)

Plus Lord of the Rings on HD-DVD should be quite a sight.

At least this will be the last proper format battle, it'll all be over which codecs we download stuff in in the future.
 
Let's face it, $200 for the ability to step into the HD world of movies it a pretty good price. If you don't want to invest money into establishing your personal HD-DVD collection, just get a Netflix account. For $10 a month, i've now gotten to watching almost half of all the movies currently out for HD-DVD. I was neutral about the format war, but am starting to believe that Sony and Beta-Ray may have gone past the point where they may never be able to catch up. If HD-DVD does lose, it's not like this format war will be over for many years, and you'll only be out $200. This is an excellent deal considering that the Beta-Ray adopters will be out $1000 + cost of movies if their favorite format loses.
 
Iratus said:
At least this will be the last proper format battle, it'll all be over which codecs we download stuff in in the future.
Click to expand...

Sony has said Blu-Ray will be dead in 5 years for downloadable media. Apart from being another "Me Too" idea, Osbourne Computer learned the hardway that yapping about the demise and replacement of the existing system tends to not be as smart as they think.
 
PikachuMan said:
-HDCP is only available when using a digital interface (HDMI or DVI). The Xbox360 does not offer digital video output, so you might be stuck watching watching SDTV, despite your $200 purchase and $20 movie... :(
Click to expand...
You did make a mistake here. Even with ICT, you'll get 520p, which is certainly much higher than 480i.

There's also been no hard confirmation one way or the other as to whether the 360 can do digital output - the lack of cables is not necessarily an indicator, as any Gamecube owner could tell you...

-Erwos
 
Were still missing that the xbox doesnt have an HDMI output..so will component or VGA carry a full 1080p signal from this player? uncompressed video over uSB too?
 
there is plenty of bandwith on the usb 2.0 side. the 1080p for movies will only be sent over vga as i understood it. the games can be transmitted over 1080p via component of component.
 
Rugeroni said:
there is plenty of bandwith on the usb 2.0 side. the 1080p for movies will only be sent over vga as i understood it. the games can be transmitted over 1080p via component of component.
Click to expand...

Nope...... a component input won't accept a 1080P signal. Neither will most HDMI jacks either. People are worrying way too much about this 1080P crap.
 
StorageJoe said:
Nope...... a component input won't accept a 1080P signal. Neither will most HDMI jacks either. People are worrying way too much about this 1080P crap.
Click to expand...

Component can easily handle 1080p, and there are TVs that accept 1080p over component just fine. Almost all new 1080p TVs with HDMI accept 1080p as well. It was just some of the earlier 1080p TVs with HDMI that only supported 1080i.

Obviously most of the TVs that aren't 1080p native don't support 1080p inputs, but it wouldn't make much sense if they did.

Also, anyone notice this?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...mes/all/ref=pd_dp_ts_vg_1/102-2867024-3128914
It's been at the top or right near it for the past couple days. I didn't expect it to be very popular, to be honest.
 
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