Interview with Ageia

Terra said:
Stumbled over this tidbit, the audio is noisy, but he makes some good points..and also takes a stab at ATI/NVIDIA for their lack of availability...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJJKWAz7HDU
Heh. The availability stab is a valid point, but it's not like Ageia has mind-blowing games to go with their hardware :p

Edit: that guy is an awkward marketer....seems like they could have found somebody better to represent their company
 
jebo_4jc said:
Heh. The availability stab is a valid point, but it's not like Ageia has mind-blowing games to go with their hardware :p

Edit: that guy is an awkward marketer....seems like they could have found somebody better to represent their company

I knada like it..not some coperate marketing slick, but a dude I can relate to..sort of *L*
I like it when he incorperates the speaker lady *L*
 
jebo_4jc said:
Heh. The availability stab is a valid point, but it's not like Ageia has mind-blowing games to go with their hardware :p

Edit: that guy is an awkward marketer....seems like they could have found somebody better to represent their company

I concurr. Ageia has such blockbuster game support in the retail channel it is incredible. No wonder Nvidia/ATi have not release driver support as there really isnt a need.
 
R1ckCa1n said:
I concurr. Ageia has such blockbuster game support in the retail channel it is incredible. No wonder Nvidia/ATi have not release driver support as there really isnt a need.

Is that a "pretty" way of saying they(ATI/NVIDIA/HavockFX) got nothing on the market?
Nothing to show...nothing to report....
Unlike hardware on the market with game/developer support

Kinda hard choice....nothing compared to something...
And no matter of PR can change that fact....
Wake me up when GPU-phycicis become more than PR :D

Untill then:
Something > NOTHING :p
 
Terra said:
Untill then:
Something > NOTHING :p

Unless "something" is next to worthless, of course. Shall we start a polll or do you actually get it?
 
Terra said:
Is that a "pretty" way of saying they(ATI/NVIDIA/HavockFX) got nothing on the market?
Nothing to show...nothing to report....
Unlike hardware on the market with game/developer support

Kinda hard choice....nothing compared to something...
And no matter of PR can change that fact....
Wake me up when GPU-phycicis become more than PR :D

Untill then:
Something > NOTHING :p

Theres a good reason why NVidia/ATI havent got anything to market for Physics, theres no need yet!
In the same way theres no need for the PhysX card yet.

I never have a hard time finding something to play on my graphics card.
Yes, you are right, nothing compared to something, I'd rather have a decent graphics card with something to use it for :)
 
R1ckCa1n said:
Unless "something" is next to worthless, of course. Shall we start a polll or do you actually get it?

"Argumentum ad populum"
This is known as Appealing to the Gallery, or Appealing to the People. You commit this fallacy if you attempt to win acceptance of an assertion by appealing to a large group of people. This form of fallacy is often characterized by emotive language.

Just like the earth wasn't flat when the majority og people belived it was flat, so does the usefullness of something not get deciced by peoples opnions, but the soley on the facts.(functionality) combined with game support

Chapter 1 – Rigid Bodies

Lesson 101 – Box on a Plane
Lesson 102 – Sphere and Torque
Lesson 103 – Capsule, Local Pose, and Center of Mass
Lesson 104 – Convex Shapes and Anisotropic Friction
Lesson 105 – Static and Kinematic Actors
Lesson 106 – Putting Actors to Sleep and Skin Width
Lesson 107 – Materials
Lesson 108 – Freeze Flags and Damping
Lesson 109 – Collision Groups
Lesson 110 – Collision Filtering
Lesson 111 – Multishape Actors
Lesson 112 – Local Forces and Force Modes
Lesson 113 – Convex Shape Creation
Lesson 114 – Concave Objects
Lesson 115 – Mesh Shapes
Lesson 116 – Mesh Materials
Lesson 117 – PMaps
Lesson 118 – Heightfield Shapes
Lesson 119 – Dynamic Continuous Collision Detection


Chapter 2 – Joints

Lesson 201 – Joints
Lesson 202 – Joint Limit Values
Lesson 203 – Joint Limit Planes
Lesson 204 – Joint Springs
Lesson 205 – Joint Motors
Lesson 206 – Breakable Joints
Lesson 207 – Spherical Joints
Lesson 208 – Prismatic Joints
Lesson 209 – Cylindrical Joints
Lesson 210 – Point-on-Line Joints
Lesson 211 – Point-in-Plane Joints
Lesson 212 – Pulley Joints
Lesson 213 – Distance Joints
Lesson 214 – Spring and Damper Effectors
Lesson 215 – Six Degree of Freedom Joints
Lesson 216 – 6DOF Joint Limits, Springs, and Motors
(Lesson 217 – Fully Configurable 6DOF Joint)
(Lesson 218 – Gumby 6DOF Joint)
(Lesson 219 – Motion Controller for 6DOF Joint)


Chapter 3 – User Reports

Lesson 301 – Debug Renderer
Lesson 302 – Memory Allocator
Lesson 303 – Contact Report
Lesson 304 – Trigger Report
Lesson 305 – Raycast Report
Lesson 306 – Entity Report
Lesson 307 – Visual Remote Debugger


Chapter 4 – Large Scale Physics Effects

Lesson 401 – Rope
Lesson 402 – Spring-Mass Cloth
Lesson 403 – Jointed Rigid Body Cloth
Lesson 404 – Ragdolls
Lesson 405 – Gears
Lesson 406 – Gears and Belt
Lesson 407 – Tank
Lesson 408 – Grass
Lesson 409 – Articulated Truck
Lesson 410 – Particle Systems
Lesson 411 – Fragmenting Objects


Chapter 5 – Tools

Lesson 501 – Core Dump
Lesson 502 – Loading PML Files
Lesson 503 – Switching Coordinate Systems
Lesson 504 – Scene Export
Lesson 505 – Asset Export
(Lesson 506 – Loading ASE Files)
(Lesson 507 – Loading EZMesh Files)
(Lesson 508 – Loading 3DS Files)


Chapter 6 – Gameplay Physics

Lesson 601 – Heightfields
Lesson 602 – Raycasting against Heightfields
Lesson 603 – Game Level
Lesson 604 – Raycasting against Game Level
Lesson 605 – Character Controller
Lesson 606 – Character Controller in Game Level


Chapter 7 – Vehicles

Lesson 701 – Wheel Shapes
Lesson 702 – Suspension and Torque
Lesson 703 – Brakes and Steering
Lesson 704 – All Wheel Drive
(Lesson 705 – Car)
(Lesson 706 – Vehicle Class)


Chapter 8 – Integration

Lesson 801 – Running on Hardware
Lesson 802 – Multiple Scenes
Lesson 803 – PhysX FX Integration
Lesson 804 – Mesh Paging
Lesson 805 – User Controlled Threads


Chapter 9 – Fluids

Lesson 901 – Fluids
Lesson 902 – Fluid Emitters
Lesson 903 – Fluids and Mesh Files
Lesson 904 – Fluid Rendering
Lesson 905 – Fluids in Game Level

Do you get it? :rolleyes:
 
Terra said:
"Argumentum ad populum"


Just like the earth wasn't flat when the majority og people belived it was flat, so does the usefullness of something not get deciced by peoples opnions, but the soley on the facts.(functionality) combined with game support



Do you get it? :rolleyes:

Ownt. It's annoying when people try to prove their point by having people vote
:rolleyes:
 
sabrewolf732 said:
Ownt. It's annoying when people try to prove their point by having people vote
:rolleyes:

In this case it was more than "annoying" is was a genuine fallacy ;)
 
Terra said:
"Argumentum ad populum"


Just like the earth wasn't flat when the majority of people belived it was flat, as such the usefullness of something doesn't get decided by people's opnions, but soley on the facts (functionality) combined with game support.



Do you get it? :rolleyes:
Fixed ^


Wow, I agree with you that PhysX is better and all but you outright flame everyone who doesn't so much i can't even take you seriously anymore.

And R1ckCa1n/jebo_4jc you are right, what games on that list are actually good? well none except for ut2007.

edit: I guess warhammer online could be good but it probably won't use physics to change gameplay since it's an mmo.
 
While I hate to spout basic economic theory, in this case, a poll would be a reasonably accurate way of determining the worth of the card. Worth in a economic sense is defined by how much people are willing to pay for it. A poll would be reasonable at determining this.

On a personal level, the worth of something is defined by the individual's desire for it. If someone has no particular use for the card (take my grandmother for instance) then it is quite literally worthless to them (aside from the value the can sell it at, which in my grandmother's case would be quite low; she would probably just throw it out).
 
Terra said:
Do you get it? :rolleyes:

Take a look at the poll and see what the users think. I guess you don't understand that the more you continue to "do what you do", it turns more people off to the product and makes them question what your motivation really is (see below quote).

Ver1tas said:
Wow, I agree with you that PhysX is better and all but you outright flame everyone who doesn't so much i can't even take you seriously anymore.

And R1ckCa1n/jebo_4jc you are right, what games on that list are actually good? well none except for ut2007.

I won't even play UT2007 since the entire UT series of games as been to "cartoonish" for my taste. As of right now I don't see one game even list (doesn't mean it will have full support) that interests me. When one is released and a PPU is required to enhance gameplay, I will buy one.
 
I'am more lookin forward for CF Revolution then UT2007. I don't like the UT series to. But The mod's have my interest. Also I wait how UT2007 turns out compared to UT2004.

The mod with reallife weapons like SpecialOpps mod is what I like.

And I think Revolution will be out before UT2007.
---------------------------------------

Chernobyl1 said:
Theres a good reason why NVidia/ATI havent got anything to market for Physics, theres no need yet!
In the same way theres no need for the PhysX card yet.
This is BS. First Ageia have prepared the market for it for years. It did not start at the release off the hardware but way before.
Havok FX and ATI demo is a response to Ageia hard work wich means action reaction. And as always the reaction off the competition runs behind.
It takes some time for games to pick up on Havok FX. So a year or so. to even get something on the shelfs in the game shops.
The GPU solution to Hardware accelerated Physics is executing the plans with speed. But it takes time. like a Triple PCIE-16 chipsets to prepare ATI/nV havokFX counter to ageia.
I never have a hard time finding something to play on my graphics card.
Yes, you are right, nothing compared to something, I'd rather have a decent graphics card with something to use it for :)

Sure You need a GPU for games as rendering.
This is about Game avaibability. Not hardware.
Sure Ageia has his Hardware out and the market is flooded with GPU hardware.
Nice for some overkill CF/SLI. But no Physics use yet.
So within short time or early future games aren't using GPU for Physics.
a bit later.
While ageia is building a up it's market presence.

That's because HavokFX response is later to Ageia executions of its busness plans. So the competition runs behind. Not so much on hardware but on API and games.
It take time to develop games. In years. Not months.

Yes ageia solution is not very apealing yet. but will become more attractive by time.
Havok FX is still nada. And much do some catch up. On the game front.
A tleast it has some apeal vs nothing. For most people it to low. But early adopters like me are jumping on it. :)
 
R1ckCa1n said:
Take a look at the poll and see what the users think. I guess you don't understand that the more you continue to "do what you do", it turns more people off to the product and makes them question what your motivation really is (see below quote).



I won't even play UT2007 since the entire UT series of games as been to "cartoonish" for my taste. As of right now I don't see one game even list (doesn't mean it will have full support) that interests me. When one is released and a PPU is required to enhance gameplay, I will buy one.

You are trying to defend your fallacy?
Good luck... :rolleyes:
 
What's there to defend? If physics cards were even something worth having @ this point and time then more than 1% of the people on these forums would be using them. No good games? Then who the hell cares?
 
I don't think anybody would disagree that PPU physics > GPU physics right now, because PPU physics actually do "something". GPU physics are MIA. However, just because PPU physics is better than GPU physics doesn't justify buying a PPU right now. Until a revolutionary game comes out that requires a PPU, I won't be buying one.
 
Well which source powered games really need 2 powerfull gpu's to even run @ higher settings? None. But at least you can actually have a large benefit from adding another gpu, in almost all newer games where as a ppu only supports a few games that no one really even cares about. (outside of ut2007)
 
ITSTHINKING said:
Well which source powered games really need 2 powerfull gpu's to even run @ higher settings? None. But at least you can actually have a large benefit from adding another gpu, in almost all newer games where as a ppu only supports a few games that no one really even cares about. (outside of ut2007)

You are assuming that people running steam games don't play other games...
 
Netrat33 said:
SLI/Crossfire already are a small niche market but people can get immediate gains from using it.

PPUs you don't get immediate benefits for 99% of games. I would say it's more niche than most niches

exactly
 
Terra said:
The same could be said about SLI/Crossfire:
http://steampowered.com/status/survey.html

Most people probably play at 800x600 and have no idea what the hell CF/SLI is. This doesn't prove anything, you think every gamer owns a steam game? I know people who refuse to use steam. How about we see numbers on how many people actually own a ppu? I bet it's no bigger then a 3 digit number.

Terra said:
You are assuming that people running steam games don't play other games...

"711302" That is how many people participated in the survey. Are you assuming that the majority of gamers use steam? Not everyone is an FPS fan, last time I checked WoW was still the most popular game to date, (1.5 million subscribers) you think all of them own steam? Half of them?

Netrat33 said:
SLI/Crossfire already are a small niche market but people can get immediate gains from using it.

PPUs you don't get immediate benefits for 99% of games. I would say it's more niche than most niches

I couldn't agree with you more.

The interview was decent, a realistic person who doesn't talk like a scripted robot, but I'm still not convinced.

Ageia, with all of these developers backing you up, show me one game worth my time. I have yet to see one.
 
Killa_2327 said:
Most people probably play at 800x600 and have no idea what the hell CF/SLI is. This doesn't prove anything, you think every gamer owns a steam game? I know people who refuse to use steam. How about we see numbers on how many people actually own a ppu? I bet it's no bigger then a 3 digit number.

A) learn about polling
B) fin me aource that ells about the PPU sales or you pint is moot.


"711302" That is how many people participated in the survey. Are you assuming that the majority of gamers use steam? Not everyone is an FPS fan, last time I checked WoW was still the most popular game to date, (1.5 million subscribers) you think all of them own steam? Half of them?

A) Learn about polling



[QOUTE]I couldn't agree with you more.

The interview was decent, a realistic person who doesn't talk like a scripted robot, but I'm still not convinced.

Ageia, with all of these developers backing you up, show me one game worth my time. I have yet to see one.[/QUOTE]

Dont't like the games, don't buy one?
No one is forcing you...unlike with a GPU.
 
Terra said:
The same could be said about SLI/Crossfire:
http://steampowered.com/status/survey.html


Of Terra,,,,,, lets take a look at your precious poll.

DX rendering path - only 35 percent of the users can't even run in DX9 mode. Not a very good canidate for SLI/Crossfire/Physics.

Desktop resolution: - 94.9 percent of the users don't game at a high enough resolution to even require a second video card to obtain high FPS.

What is not shown is how many or CS players who would never let a PPU get in the way of them fragging so Steam is a terrible example. Right don't you take a look at the poll in THIS forum to see what the users here think?

As for the guy they picked up on the way into the show to represent Ageia, he was terrible. He had nothing technical to say and that 2 minute looping techdemo was about all that is available today anyways. He had the elevator sales pitch and thats about it.
 
R1ckCa1n said:
Of Terra,,,,,, lets take a look at your precious poll.

DX rendering path - only 35 percent of the users can't even run in DX9 mode. Not a very good canidate for SLI/Crossfire/Physics.

PhysX has nothing to do with DX9..stop thinking of the PPU like a GPU.

Desktop resolution: - 94.9 percent of the users don't game at a high enough resolution to even require a second video card to obtain high FPS.

So people that game below 1600x1200 are not canditates for PhysX?
Gee, I wish you had told me that before I got my PhysX :rolleyes:

What is not shown is how many or CS players who would never let a PPU get in the way of them fragging so Steam is a terrible example.

Neither you nor I have asked them...moot pint.
But find me a larger more reprensentative sampling group then?

Right don't you take a look at the poll in THIS forum to see what the users here think?

Why don't you answer this first?
FALLACY

You tried to be cocky, made a poll...but forget it was based on a fallcy? :p



As for the guy they picked up on the way into the show to represent Ageia, he was terrible. He had nothing technical to say and that 2 minute looping techdemo was about all that is available today anyways. He had the elevator sales pitch and thats about it.

We all know that you will never get a PhysX...so you don't like the guy punking your beloved ATI for having nothing to show...surprise? :rolleyes:
 
Terra said:
We all know that you will never get a PhysX...so you don't like the guy punking your beloved ATI for having nothing to show...surprise? :rolleyes:

I sense fustration in Terra's messages. :p

Not when we have some "B" grade retail games on the market and a hand full of tech demos available today...... Just in case you forgot, the
USERS don't feel it is necessary either.

The one thing I CAN tell you is no matter what it is, I will buy it when it impacts retail games that I play. My purchasing has gone like this:

Bought 9800Pro because of HL2
Bought 6800Ultra/7800GTX for Quake3
Bought X1900's because I could and for FEAR/Oblivion

Point is I didn't buy the hardware until the games in retail required it.
 
R1ckCa1n said:
I sense fustration in Terra's messages. :p

Don't quit your dayjob ;)

Not when we have some "B" grade retail games on the market and a hand full of tech demos available today...... Just in case you forgot, the
USERS don't feel it is necessary either.

Dud link?

The one thing I CAN tell you is no matter what it is, I will buy it when it impacts retail games that I play. My purchasing has gone like this:

Bought 9800Pro because of HL2
Bought 6800Ultra/7800GTX for Quake3
Bought X1900's because I could and for FEAR/Oblivion

Point is I didn't buy the hardware until the games in retail required it.

Good for you..and?
No denail, no rebuttal, just a attempt in twisting a reply into looking like an answer? :)
 
Terra, you are worse than a broken record.
The poll has proved a valid point, hardly anyone wants a PPU yet.
The sample poll size is irrelevant, we knew the outcome before the poll started.

Why wont we buy one now?
Go back and read everything you've ignored and the picture is clear.

Stop being childish and accept that if the PhysX card ends up good enough we will also want one.
Your continual insistance that we dont want PhysX is born of some strange goings on inside your own head.
No matter what you say there isnt any point having one at this time.
Can you imagine this forum if a second revision of the PPU has to be made for it to work properly :D.
 
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