Dell 2007 fp/fpw Banding issue.

Snowdog

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 22, 2006
Messages
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I was interested in a Dell 2007FP, then I started getting reports of severe banding. The more I followed it, the more it appears that both the FP and FPW suffer fairly obvious banding over DVI inputs. This seems to be one of the more active display forums on the net, so I thought I would try for more input here. I can make up my own mind whether this is a significant issue or not. What I am interested in finding out is whether anyone has a Dell 2007 that does not have this banding over DVI.

If anyone has one that does not band like this, I would be very interested in finding out setting/service menu info like which panel it is using.

Here is a simple gradient test. That covers the three primaries (RGB) and greyscale:
http://xtknight.atothosting.com/tools/gradlin-v0.2-fs.exe (esc to exit)
Every second row should be a smooth continuous gradient. Here is a sample from a 2007fpw over DVI.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~json/stuff/blue-grey.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~json/stuff/red-green.jpg
 
I'm also interested and have created an account just for this reason. I wanted to get either a 2007wfp or 2407wfp. Since everyone complaines about "washed out colors" (I looked at an older samsung panel yesterday and it's kind of bad) when viewing at angles, I began to think about getting the 2007wfp but others are complaining of the banding. I don't know what to buy!

I saw the gateway that uses the new S-PVA panel and it looked very nice (except some shadows) and had better viewing angles than the old samsung PVA, so maybe the 2407wfp won't be so bad.

I'd like to know if any of you are getting better 2007wfp panels without the banding.
 
Same here. Actually I won't touch a PVA/MVA panel. I bought a 2405 and the dark tone washout at angles was so annoying, I sold it. I would not expect the 2407 to be different. On a 24", washout is quite annoying because you are always at some angle to the screen if you sit reasonably close. It was so bad on the 2405 that each eye would see different levels of luminance on dark tones.

So the IPS quest begins. Then all these 2007 banding issues crop up....
 
I'm looking at these pictures from TFT review, and if you put the three of them side by side, the blue colors in the forum on Firefox (rt side of screen) aren't even close! That's what makes me scared of buying a PVA monitor.

blues are good here
http://dwuk.net/baddass/tft_central/images/dell2405/6.JPG

way off here
http://dwuk.net/baddass/tft_central/images/dell2405/8.JPG
http://dwuk.net/baddass/tft_central/images/dell2405/7.JPG

I know no one uses the screen at that angle but when I was at best buy yesterday looking at a Samsung 204T, the colors would change slightly with just a 10º change in viewing angle. I didn't notice as severe change in color on the new Gateway WS (uses S-PVA I think) so I'm still a bit worried.
 
That is exactly what I experienced with my 2405. It only takes a few degrees to be off axis, the angles that Dell quotes are a farce for viewing angles. That is the angle at which you can see "something" but the darker tones/colors wash out at only a few degrees off axis.

Very hard to describe is the wierd effect you get because it is more washed out, one eye compared with the other. You get a wierd almost 3d (not in a good way) effect with something I call shine through, from each eye seeing different light. The Tech report main page shows that effect. That blue is quite good for showing the washout.

You need the right material on screen to check the monitor as pure black doesn't wash out, it it is dark tones, but brighter than black. I was at Best Buy friday looking at the Viewsonic 2025 and the Gateway 2185. On the viewsonic, I could clearly see the washout. On the gateway I couldn't tell because they didn't have the right material up to check it. Maybe it is better.

I had one of the Version 2.0 2405s. Which according to one panel list, has a different panel and essentially the same panel as will be in the 2407. Another factor that makes the 2405/2407 a bit more washout prone IMO is the overpowering backlight that can't be throttled down sufficiently.

A good test to check for washout issues is something like this:
http://i.pbase.com/o4/04/606404/1/57902216.clip5.png

Watche the 5%-30% tones as they are the most affected.
 
I'll save that on a USB drive and take it to BB to check out the gateway. If people weren't complaining about the banding on the 2007wfp, I'd have one already.
 
Snowdog said:
I was interested in a Dell 2007FP, then I started getting reports of severe banding. The more I followed it, the more it appears that both the FP and FPW suffer fairly obvious banding over DVI inputs. This seems to be one of the more active display forums on the net, so I thought I would try for more input here. I can make up my own mind whether this is a significant issue or not. What I am interested in finding out is whether anyone has a Dell 2007 that does not have this banding over DVI.

If anyone has one that does not band like this, I would be very interested in finding out setting/service menu info like which panel it is using.

Here is a simple gradient test. That covers the three primaries (RGB) and greyscale:
http://xtknight.atothosting.com/tools/gradlin-v0.2-fs.exe (esc to exit)
Every second row should be a smooth continuous gradient. Here is a sample from a 2007fpw over DVI.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~json/stuff/blue-grey.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~json/stuff/red-green.jpg



Okay I have the 2007WFP. I just ran that program and I am definitely better than the screenshots you posted. I only see a small hint of banding in the darker range of the spectum, then it's smooth the rest of the way up. Those screenshots show clear banding across the whole range and I'm definitely not seeing that problem.

When in DVI mode at native res, the 2007 really only lets you adjust brightness so there aren't too many settings to worry about. Mine is set at 44. The little bit of banding I do see is nothing that bothers me in any real-world situations.
 
sanitystream said:
Okay I have the 2007WFP. I just ran that program and I am definitely better than the screenshots you posted. I only see a small hint of banding in the darker range of the spectum, then it's smooth the rest of the way up. Those screenshots show clear banding across the whole range and I'm definitely not seeing that problem.

When in DVI mode at native res, the 2007 really only lets you adjust brightness so there aren't too many settings to worry about. Mine is set at 44. The little bit of banding I do see is nothing that bothers me in any real-world situations.
Can u take photos?
 
droopy1592 said:
Can u take photos?


Sorry, I'm the last caveman in the world apparently who doesn't have a digital camera :)

I should say if there's any quibble I have with this monitor, it ain't the banding (which isn't even an issue on mine). It's the fact that text via DVI isn't as sharp as it should be. I had the Viewsonic for awhile and I know the text on that was razor sharp, I never gave it another thought. On the Dell... it depends. For instance, as I type this in the reply box, I'm seeing black text on white background and it just isn't as quite sharp as it ought to be. It's not a major thing, it's not the end of the world, we're talking about splitting hairs here, but it's a little soft and could be better.

Everything else about the 2007 is fine in my estimation. Good colors, games play great, just wish DVI was a little sharper (and even then it depends on what text/background color combo you're looking at). But as I've learned on LCDs, you can't have everything.
 
Okay, allow me to contradict everything I've said about the banding on the 2007. I started to dig into this, and yes, it's a BIG problem. It was just a matter of finding an image that could illustrate it.

On my CRT the following gradient is absolutely smooth from the center outwards without a hint of banding:

http://xtknight.atothosting.com/lcdtest/purplegreen2.png

On the Dell 2007, it's a nightmare. Truly crappy. There are huge banded circles that radiate outward at every color gradation. It's very much like looking at a 24-bit image in 16-bit mode.

Another example, a screenshot from EVE:

http://www.groundcity.com/pics/banding/screenshot.png

On my CRT, the image is perfect.

On my Dell 2007, all the dark blue areas between the spaceship and the clouds are banding badly.

Somebody even took a camera shot of their 2007 displaying it, you'll see what I mean:

http://www.groundcity.com/pics/banding/banding/Banding-002.jpg

This is totally unacceptable and I'm calling Dell to return it. I don't think it has anything to do with one bad apple, it's the whole design of the panel that's the problem. Too many other people are seeing this on the 2007 for it to be isolated.

Damn. Back to square one. At this point I think I'm going to go buy the Viewsonic and live with its lack of scaling. Sigh.
 
It is really looking like 2007 fp/fpw banding issue is a universal problem on these two dell monitors, with the DVI input.

Maybe I will just try to stretch my CRT's life out.
 
I have the 2007fwp and it does have banding with DVI. Otherwise I love it and it is only occasionally noticeable depending on your use. I plan to exchange it once a revision is made.
 
Christ. NOW I see this after I already purchased one... it's arriving today. Blah.

Hopefully it's not THAT serious. :(
 
What is Dell's problem with the 20" WS. First it was the backlighting and now when all thought the problem would go away with the 2007, they create another problem.
 
i bought one of these too, and yes, the banding problem is present.

i'm in Malaysia, by the way.

&^%&*$%#^#*(^*&#^#^#(
 
interesting pictures there showing the banding. Particularly obvious in that gaming screen shot. The 2007WFP hasn't hit the UK shores yet, can anyone confirm what it is like over VGA? The discussion here seems to imply it's a DVI specific issue, or is it just not as bad on VGA, but still there?
 
I just received my 2007WFP and I ran that test, and it's definitely not as noticeable as in the screenshots you took, thankfully.

But yeah... this monitor is extra sexy. That is all... I think I can live with just a LITTLE banding, provided they release a new firmware for it that fixes it sometime in the future.

EDIT: Well I just tested Dreamfall on it... the banding is there... unfortunately. Sigh.

So this problem goes away with a VGA connection? Hmm.
 
The18thLetter said:
I just received my 2007WFP and I ran that test, and it's definitely not as noticeable as in the screenshots you took, thankfully.

But yeah... this monitor is extra sexy. That is all... I think I can live with just a LITTLE banding, provided they release a new firmware for it that fixes it sometime in the future.

EDIT: Well I just tested Dreamfall on it... the banding is there... unfortunately. Sigh.

So this problem goes away with a VGA connection? Hmm.

I dont' think a firmware will fix it. Any reports with different video cards?

Happy I bought my 2005fpw...
 
The18thLetter said:
EDIT: Well I just tested Dreamfall on it... the banding is there... unfortunately. Sigh.

So this problem goes away with a VGA connection? Hmm.


I don't think it goes away on VGA as much as VGA just "fuzzes" the lines between gradients and performs a sort of poor man's anti-aliasing by not being as sharp. I think it's still there.

I'm at work and my lowly Dell 173 LCD does just fine with the same gradient that my brand new $500 Dell 2007 fails miserably at. I didn't pay good money for this crap, that's for sure. It's going back.

I'd suggest potential buyers looks elsewhere.
 
Here's another gradient example. This website:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/

- has a gradient that goes from red toward black on the way down. Even on my cheapy LCD the transition is completely smooth. But on the Dell 2007, it's not and the banding is noticeable.
 
I am going to have agree with everyone here. My 2005fpw does have banding but my 2405fpw has none or very little. Also the 2405 is heads above the 20 incher in color and gaming so i would recommend this.
 
This is interesting, as I have the LG L203wt with the TN panel and I see no banding in the test (see the beginning of this thread). Every 2nd row is a smooth continuous gradiant from dark to light for each color row-- red, green, blue and white.
 
rblews said:
This is interesting, as I have the LG L203wt with the TN panel and I see no banding in the test (see the beginning of this thread). Every 2nd row is a smooth continuous gradiant from dark to light for each color row-- red, green, blue and white.

I think this is a better test:

http://xtknight.atothosting.com/lcdtest/purplegreen2.png


Should be totally smooth transitions from the center out. The 2007 has banding in the form of visible concentric circles.
 
Ok now I'm mad, i was assuming that this is just normal for LCDs however when i do the test of my roomate's laptop and cheapo 17in Acer there is no banding.

I will not accept this in a 500 dollar screen when a sub 200 one is far better. My 2007Fp is going back.

Any ideeas guys with what should i replace it? Should i try for another one or should i try for another model or even brand?
 
Neutrino said:
Any ideeas guys with what should i replace it? Should i try for another one or should i try for another model or even brand?


I think it's a design defect with the Dell, not a problem with individual monitors. I've tried this one, the Gateway, and the Viewsonic and I'm going back to the Viewsonic (and just living with its lack of aspect ratio control).
 
Actually no. My dell 2405fpw is excellent no banding. Neither is my sony premierpro 23 nor my apple 23. so you should check these out if your looking for a smooth and beautiful screen.
 
8balls said:
i bought one of these too, and yes, the banding problem is present.

i'm in Malaysia, by the way.

&^%&*$%#^#*(^*&#^#^#(


which part ? maybe i could swing by one day and check it out cos dad was planning on getting one too :D
 
just hooked up the VGA to see the difference in banding. All I can say is the banding is almost nonexistance with VGA using the banding test tool. the second line looked almost smooth. but coloured texts on black background still look blurry and texts overall are not as sharp as with DVI. it's a tough call whether to keep this monitor or not. i mean ya banding is there but since i am neither a graphic designer nor a photographer, i doubt that banding will affect me at all. having had a 17' Sony TN panel monitor for 2 years and LG L203WT, also a TN panel, for a little longer than a week, i have to say S-IPS owns me. 1400:1 contrast ratio is great on L203wt, but because of its narrow viewing angles, white tends to look yellowish on the sides as you tilt your head just a little bit. I really like the adjustability of 2007wfp. not many 20" WS out there can tild, swivel and raise up and down for the same price. also no backlight bleed and zero dead pixel are great pluses. just my humble opinions
 
steveng said:
just hooked up the VGA to see the difference in banding. All I can say is the banding is almost nonexistance with VGA using the banding test tool. the second line looked almost smooth. but coloured texts on black background still look blurry and texts overall are not as sharp as with DVI. it's a tough call whether to keep this monitor or not. i mean ya banding is there but since i am neither a graphic designer nor a photographer, i doubt that banding will affect me at all. having had a 17' Sony TN panel monitor for 2 years and LG L203WT, also a TN panel, for a little longer than a week, i have to say S-IPS owns me. 1400:1 contrast ratio is great on L203wt, but because of its narrow viewing angles, white tends to look yellowish on the sides as you tilt your head just a little bit. I really like the adjustability of 2007wfp. not many 20" WS out there can tild, swivel and raise up and down for the same price. also no backlight bleed and zero dead pixel are great pluses. just my humble opinions
Haha, what a coincidence, I just did the same thing (hooked it up to VGA).

I think I'm going to keep it, because I don't see any banding with the VGA whatsoever, and the difference between DVI and VGA on the 2007 (besides banding, of course) is minimal (slightly sharper text).
 
The18thLetter said:
Haha, what a coincidence, I just did the same thing (hooked it up to VGA).

I think I'm going to keep it, because I don't see any banding with the VGA whatsoever, and the difference between DVI and VGA on the 2007 (besides banding, of course) is minimal (slightly sharper text).
are you gonna run it with vga or dvi?
 
I can see the reasons for keeping it if you don't notice this in daily use. However, I find it unaceptable for this type of monitor to have his issues. I have actually done this test on another friend's Emachines branded LCD and it did far better thatn my 2007.

I did not pay that much money to be oudone by a freakin Emachines LCD!!!
 
Dell is just another rebranded Emachine. some other companies manufacture the products for Dell.
 
I just noticed another problem with 2007wfp. I have about a half cm vertical line flashing randomly on the screen whenever I browse on hardforum.com. does it happen with any of you? it happens with both VGA and DVI but more frequently with VGA.
 
steveng said:
Dell is just another rebranded Emachine. some other companies manufacture the products for Dell.

I know but Emachines parts are designed to be bargain parts with the price and quality to match expectations.

However monitors like the 2007FP are suposedly Dell top end parts. When i pay 3 times the price of my roomates Acer or my friend's Emachines LCDs I expect to be getting better quality not worse.
 
I have the 2001FP and the banding is non-existent to minimal. There is just a tad bit of banding on this website: http://forums.cgsociety.org/ and I remember some other one, but it passes the purple green test and everything else. I was thinking of upgrading too, I guess I'll keep my 2001FP.
 
steveng said:
I just noticed another problem with 2007wfp. I have about a half cm vertical line flashing randomly on the screen whenever I browse on hardforum.com. does it happen with any of you? it happens with both VGA and DVI but more frequently with VGA.
I noticed the same thing with my last Widescreen LCD. It was MUCH worse with that one, though, this one is actually decent. I don't see it on this site, though...

But yeah, it's not rampant... and I'm planning to run this on VGA. VGA gives me access to a bunch of more resolutions in Oblivion, too, so this may all work out for the best. :)
 
Neutrino said:
I did not pay that much money to be oudone by a freakin Emachines LCD!!!


I agree. It's like buying a $35,000 car and discovering the windshield wipers don't work. You could rationalize it and say you'll never drive in the rain, but why would you for that kind of money? (especially with cheaper cars don't have the problem.)

I'm returning my 2007 for sure.
 
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