Does anybody know if 360's HD DVD, will it support DVI or HDMI?

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Aldur

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I just recently bought a Westinghouse 37" LCD HDTV and a VGA cable for my 360, Friggin amazing is all I have to say. Games look flawless and are amazingly crisp. This is the ulimate gaming tv :) . My only concern now is if the HD DVD addon for the 360 will support DVI or HDMI. I've heard that they were going with HDMI and my TV has 2 DVI ports but no HDMI port :( . Could somebody confirm this for me?

If this is the case, can you convert HDMI to DVI with a cable or something easy like that? :confused:
 
steviep,

that's incorrect.

DVI to HDMI convertors are readily available and will work fine.

visit www.avsforum.com for as much information as you can stomach about anything audio/video related.
 
steviep said:
Sorry, you're shit out of luck. Maybe you shouldn't buy any of the next gen DVD formats until things are sorted out (like me).
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I find myself agreeing with you more everyday :p

Next gen DVD is really not needed, even though watching high definition DVD's on my HDMI compatible 61" DLP will be awesome :) However early adopters to this next gen I think will regret jumping ship so soon.

I am waiting.
 
Yup, both HDMI and DVI are HDCP compatible, and DVI-HDMI and vice versa converters exist, I have one.
 
Sorry, I had forgotten that DVI was also capable of HDCP. Regardless, I'm still pissed :p
 
steviep said:
Sorry, I had forgotten that DVI was also capable of HDCP. Regardless, I'm still pissed :p
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And this is a way to try and help with copy right protection? What is the movie industry thinking?? :confused: All this is going to do force more people to find out ways to get around the copyright protection resulting in more piracy and more money lost due to it.

People tend to tell you to F off when they get screwed. :mad:

I hope the movie industry is ready for it :D
 
On the other hand, is piracy wasn't so rampant and out of control(especially in 3rd world countries), these developers and publishers would not have considered such a drastic solution like this.
 
Now that I think about it I dunno how the 360 is going to do HD-DVD, because from what I understand the machine can only output ananlog signals (due to a scaling chip or something), so it wouldnt be able to send out the true-digital signal DVI/HDMI needs to operate. This kind of makes sense cause when you think about it, because if the system could output a Digital signal then they would have put out a DVI cable rather than a VGA cable, because they could have killed 3 birds with one stone (the DVI can go DVI-> DVI, DVI->HDMI, and DVI-VGA), whereas the VGA cable can only do VGA.

I remember one of the microsoft guys saying they would bring HDMI to the 360 when they felt the market was ready (which seems kind of a cop out, because most HDTV's have a HDMI or DVI jack), but I think he was talking more of a system revision rather than just a cable, seeing as its an actual chip int the console thats the culprit. Maybe they will do a reverse gamecube (only the early model gamecubes coul output in 480P, and they took it off the later models), or the video output might be on the actual HD-DVD drive itself.
 
Naldo said:
Now that I think about it I dunno how the 360 is going to do HD-DVD, because from what I understand the machine can only output ananlog signals (due to a scaling chip or something), so it wouldnt be able to send out the true-digital signal DVI/HDMI needs to operate. This kind of makes sense cause when you think about it, because if the system could output a Digital signal then they would have put out a DVI cable rather than a VGA cable, because they could have killed 3 birds with one stone (the DVI can go DVI-> DVI, DVI->HDMI, and DVI-VGA), whereas the VGA cable can only do VGA.

I remember one of the microsoft guys saying they would bring HDMI to the 360 when they felt the market was ready (which seems kind of a cop out, because most HDTV's have a HDMI or DVI jack), but I think he was talking more of a system revision rather than just a cable, seeing as its an actual chip int the console thats the culprit. Maybe they will do a reverse gamecube (only the early model gamecubes coul output in 480P, and they took it off the later models), or the video output might be on the actual HD-DVD drive itself.
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Yeah, the HD-DVD "drive" for Xbox 360 will be an external drive, so it'll probably have it's own output.

But then that also brings up the fact that it is it's own standalone thing and has nothing to do with the Xbox 360...which is kind of dumb.
 
First you must check the manual of your monitor and see if the DVI ports support HDCP (not all DVI ports do). If they do, then all you need is a HDMI -> DVI cable.
 
Naldo said:
Now that I think about it I dunno how the 360 is going to do HD-DVD, because from what I understand the machine can only output ananlog signals (due to a scaling chip or something), so it wouldnt be able to send out the true-digital signal DVI/HDMI needs to operate. This kind of makes sense cause when you think about it, because if the system could output a Digital signal then they would have put out a DVI cable rather than a VGA cable, because they could have killed 3 birds with one stone (the DVI can go DVI-> DVI, DVI->HDMI, and DVI-VGA), whereas the VGA cable can only do VGA.

I remember one of the microsoft guys saying they would bring HDMI to the 360 when they felt the market was ready (which seems kind of a cop out, because most HDTV's have a HDMI or DVI jack), but I think he was talking more of a system revision rather than just a cable, seeing as its an actual chip int the console thats the culprit. Maybe they will do a reverse gamecube (only the early model gamecubes coul output in 480P, and they took it off the later models), or the video output might be on the actual HD-DVD drive itself.
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That's a really good point. If that's the case, then current X360 owners are getting a REAL shaft. The early adopters lose out AGAIN :mad:

As Lesman pointed out, if there's an output on the back of their HD addon, then what's what's the point? It would essentially be a standalone that's tethered to an XBox :rolleyes:
 
I dont see the point of having an external HD-DVD player for the 360. They arent bringing games out for it, only movies. Plus if its external you may as well buy a standalone.

The only benefit i can see is that since the 360 only has component HD then you wont need an HDCP compatible screen.

Take me for instance. HD-DVD will cost me the price of a new player AND HDTV. I dont have an HDTV, but i use my pc's monitor for my 360. A dell 2405fpw which supports most HD resolutions but does not have HDCP.

So in a complete turnaround from how i started this message. I want one now :D
 
Skirrow said:
The only benefit i can see is that since the 360 only has component HD then you wont need an HDCP compatible screen.
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Read the article. As per spec with both BluRay and HDDVD, the movies either will NOT play when hooked up via any analog signal, or will be limited to 480p (like DVDs).
 
steviep said:
Read the article. As per spec with both BluRay and HDDVD, the movies either will NOT play when hooked up via any analog signal, or will be limited to 480p (like DVDs).
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If thats true then i really DONT see the point of the 360 drive. May as well get a standalone because the price is going to be too steep.

However that WOULD seem to confirm the availability of HDMI or DVI on the new drive.

MS would have to add new circuitry to the unit to support HDMI, or DVI. They would also have to find some way for the 360 to output its video signal through the new circuitry.

Unless the HD content is decoded by the drive before it is sent through the 360's analogue circuits. That might work.
 
Skirrow said:
If thats true then i really DONT see the point of the 360 drive. May as well get a standalone because the price is going to be too steep.

However that WOULD seem to confirm the availability of HDMI or DVI on the new drive.

MS would have to add new circuitry to the unit to support HDMI, or DVI. They would also have to find some way for the 360 to output its video signal through the new circuitry.

Unless the HD content is decoded by the drive before it is sent through the 360's analogue circuits. That might work.
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The HD consortiums won't allow it though. There simply won't be a way (aside from some hacked solution by DVDJon or something) to get an analog signal out of these HD disc formats. And if there is, it will be at 480p as per the spec listed in the article.

Simply put, either revision 1 of the X360 won't support the HD DVD addon, OR the X360 HD-DVD drive will essentially be an (expensive) standalone. :p
 
Skirrow said:
I dont see the point of having an external HD-DVD player for the 360. They arent bringing games out for it, only movies. Plus if its external you may as well buy a standalone.

The only benefit i can see is that since the 360 only has component HD then you wont need an HDCP compatible screen.

Take me for instance. HD-DVD will cost me the price of a new player AND HDTV. I dont have an HDTV, but i use my pc's monitor for my 360. A dell 2405fpw which supports most HD resolutions but does not have HDCP.

So in a complete turnaround from how i started this message. I want one now :D
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A lot of what's being said is just speculation right now. Heck, even the original Xbox supported DVI and HDMI interfaces, so who knows what Microsoft will do to get this working. Microsoft created the 360, and they know things about it that none of the rest of us will know. For me, this is important because my surround sound reciever only has one optical audio input, which is currently being used by the Xbox360. I've got a coaxial digital input, but i'm not sure if there will be any players that will even support this anymore these days. It's also my understanding that even if you use a really high quality coaxial digital cable, you still lose a lot of audio quality over optical.
 
junehhan said:
It's also my understanding that even if you use a really high quality coaxial digital cable, you still lose a lot of audio quality over optical.
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Well, if they are both digital then there wont be any quality loss, you cant lose quailty on something digital, either the 1's an 0's get from A->B or they dont, no such thing as a low quality 1 or a fuzzy 0. But I'm not expert on audio cable so I might be mistaken.
 
Naldo said:
Well, if they are both digital then there wont be any quality loss, you cant lose quailty on something digital, either the 1's an 0's get from A->B or they dont, no such thing as a low quality 1 or a fuzzy 0. But I'm not expert on audio cable so I might be mistaken.
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Signals can degrade through cables. Something to do with RF/EM or other types of interference. Does stuff like turning 1's into 0's and stuff. Which is why we have error correction. Doesnt always work though, hence audio distortion.

Mind you optical cables are better since they dont suffer from this as far as i know. Oh and cheap £3.99 cables sound just as good as the expensive £30+ ones. Oops, gone off topic.

Anyway. I didnt know the Xbox had HDMI or DVI interfaces (i'm assuming its with the HD pack we didnt get in the UK). If so then perhaps its just a case of a new cable.
 
it has to...becasue HDCP only works with dvi and hdmi so legally it has to support it to output hi def video
 
paranoia4422 said:
it has to...becasue HDCP only works with dvi and hdmi so legally it has to support it to output hi def video
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Well, the XBox360 itself only outputs analog signals... so, begin speculation. The X360 itself won't be outputting HD signals from movies, unless Microsoft either ships out a new one, shafting all its current customers... or makes the add-on a standalone that's tethered to the X360 itself (new video hardware = mucho expensivo), or just scraps the plan entirely. Which will probably be the case :p
 
Skirrow said:
Signals can degrade through cables. Something to do with RF/EM or other types of interference. Does stuff like turning 1's into 0's and stuff. Which is why we have error correction. Doesnt always work though, hence audio distortion.

Mind you optical cables are better since they dont suffer from this as far as i know. Oh and cheap £3.99 cables sound just as good as the expensive £30+ ones. Oops, gone off topic.

Anyway. I didnt know the Xbox had HDMI or DVI interfaces (i'm assuming its with the HD pack we didnt get in the UK). If so then perhaps its just a case of a new cable.
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Yes, I find it ironic how you can find HDMI or DVI cables for the original xbox from Microsoft, but not for the Xbox360. Of course these Microsoft cables were not cheap. I really don't mind right now, as things look really good with the supplied component video cables. Also, i've heard audio systems hooked up via both optical and coaxial. Maybe I was hearing things, but the audio and the rear channel separation seemed better with the digital. As far as cheap cables being as good, I would have to argue with you there as i've seen and heard the difference with higher quality cables.
 
junehhan said:
Yes, I find it ironic how you can find HDMI or DVI cables for the original xbox from Microsoft, but not for the Xbox360. Of course these Microsoft cables were not cheap. I really don't mind right now, as things look really good with the supplied component video cables. Also, i've heard audio systems hooked up via both optical and coaxial. Maybe I was hearing things, but the audio and the rear channel separation seemed better with the digital. As far as cheap cables being as good, I would have to argue with you there as i've seen and heard the difference with higher quality cables.
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Sure with coaxial cables which are electrical as opposed to optical. But optical cables suffer from far less signal degredation so wether you pay for a cheapo £34one or £20 for ones with gold plated contacts!?!?!? (http://www.nexxia.co.uk/Hi-Fi&TVaccessories/optical_cables.htm), you will not hear much difference, if any at all. Unless you happen to be an elite audiophile.
 
paranoia4422 said:
or contrary to popular belief its not analog after all?
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Good point. I mean the Component cable could just have been released to make HD more accessible since nearly all HDTV sets have component inputs.

Think of it like this. You can get a DVI to VGA adaptor for pc gfx cards so you can use a digital connection with an analogue monitor, i cant see any reason why the component cable for 360 couldnt be the same sort of thing.

I suspect that if that is true, then a digital (HDMI/DVI) cable will come out to either coincide with PS3's launch or the HD-DVD drive. It could be MS's ace in the hole. To try and steal a bit of PS3's thunder.
 
junehhan said:
On the other hand, is piracy wasn't so rampant and out of control(especially in 3rd world countries), these developers and publishers would not have considered such a drastic solution like this.
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The 3rd world country market is so small it is laughable. The media companies are worried about the US (where Piracy is still (thankfully) rampant), China/Taiwan (where it is even more rampant) and Japan (where I don't have a clue about how big it is, but given how techno-aware they are, I have to believe it is). No one is making a real buck when it comes to Ecuador or any other South American/African nation, they just want to get a foothold in case those places ever make a name for themselves (which I guess Brazil is doing a pretty good job of, but still, piracy is very, very, rampant there).

Skirrow -

When it comes to digital audio both Optical and Coaxial have their benefits. Optical cables are fragile (flex them too much, and the fibre breaks, and the cable is useless, I have done this to a few), and Optical also suffers from 'jitter' effects. Coaxial is susceptible to ground loops (which are a total bitch if you ever have to find one and solve it). Overall, the high end audio community likes Coaxial more, but I have never had a problem with either. I use both right now (DVD player, PS2, Xbox360, Laserdisc Player, and HDTV Cable box sort of make it necessary on my old ass receiver in the living room (Onkyo TXDS575... I should really move the one from my bedroom (which is newer and better) into there, but I am too lazy at the moment)). HDMI audio has possibilities, but its implementation has been very, very, spotty. Copy protection is unfortunately just the way things are going to be. Thankfully there are plenty of pirates out there who are working to right the wrong done to us by the media industry, but it takes time.
 
Skirrow said:
Sure with coaxial cables which are electrical as opposed to optical. But optical cables suffer from far less signal degredation so wether you pay for a cheapo £34one or £20 for ones with gold plated contacts!?!?!? (http://www.nexxia.co.uk/Hi-Fi&TVaccessories/optical_cables.htm), you will not hear much difference, if any at all. Unless you happen to be an elite audiophile.
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I tend to notice everything, which is why I always opt for the higher quality cables. I wouldn't consider myself an audiophile(too poor to afford that stuff!!!), but maybe i'm just sensitive to this type of stuff. That's why i'm impressed with the component video cables that came with the 360's, as they offer impressive picture quality even though they look really cheap.
 
Skirrow said:
Think of it like this. You can get a DVI to VGA adaptor for pc gfx cards so you can use a digital connection with an analogue monitor, i cant see any reason why the component cable for 360 couldnt be the same sort of thing.

I suspect that if that is true, then a digital (HDMI/DVI) cable will come out to either coincide with PS3's launch or the HD-DVD drive. It could be MS's ace in the hole. To try and steal a bit of PS3's thunder.
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The key is that in the case of the PC its reversed, the signal is starting out digital, whereas with the 360 it is starting out analog. And as you said going DVI (digital) -> VGA (analog) is simple, but going VGA to DVI is a completely different ballgame. A dvi to VGA converter cost a couple bucks (if that), a true VGA to DVI converter cost a couple hundred.

And like I said before, if they could output a digital signal, why didnt they do it from the begining? They could have just put out a DVI cable and threw in a VGA adpter for it, kill 2 birds (3 birds since DVI-> HDMI is easy too) with one stone. Them just saying "the market isnt ready for it yet" just doesnt make sense when they could have covered the enitire market simply by putting out the DVI cable instead of VGA, only valid reason why they wouldnt is because they cant.

But this isnt to say that microsoft wont just go ahead and use their billions to make sure that the 360 is the only next-gen video player that doesnt need DVI/HDMI, in that case the whole analog only output wouldnt matter and would deffinatly give them huge advantage over their competitors.
 
Naldo said:
But this isnt to say that microsoft wont just go ahead and use their billions to make sure that the 360 is the only next-gen video player that doesnt need DVI/HDMI, in that case the whole analog only output wouldnt matter and would deffinatly give them huge advantage over their competitors.
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I just don't see that happening, though. The industry has provided itself its own messiah with this AACP crap. They have given the middle finger to analog because analog presents an easier way to bypass any protection. They said they're going all-digital and I don't think they're kidding, Xbox or no Xbox. Since the XBox can't output digital signals, I'm not sure what the solution is. The only one I can think of is the "early adopters get shafted" option, where the next major revision of XBox will included the DVI out for the AACP that's required for both next-gen formats.
 
steviep said:
I just don't see that happening, though. The industry has provided itself its own messiah with this AACP crap. They have given the middle finger to analog because analog presents an easier way to bypass any protection. They said they're going all-digital and I don't think they're kidding, Xbox or no Xbox. Since the XBox can't output digital signals, I'm not sure what the solution is. The only one I can think of is the "early adopters get shafted" option, where the next major revision of XBox will included the DVI out for the AACP that's required for both next-gen formats.
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While it would be nice, I don't think i'll lose any sleep if us early adopters get shafted. As long as I can buy a stand-alone HD-DVD drive that supports coaxial digital output, i'll be happy. However, we really should wait as who knows what Microsoft can do. Since we already know that games will continue to come out on DVD-9 anyway, it's not a big deal. I don't think that Microsoft would have announced an add-on HD-DVD drive if they didn't have some trick up their sleeve. I personally would like HD-DVD become the next standard as i'm beginning to like it the more I find out about it. Backward compatibility and the ability to contain both standard and high definition versions of a movie are really appealing to me.
 
junehhan said:
While it would be nice, I don't think i'll lose any sleep if us early adopters get shafted. As long as I can buy a stand-alone HD-DVD drive that supports coaxial digital output, i'll be happy. However, we really should wait as who knows what Microsoft can do. Since we already know that games will continue to come out on DVD-9 anyway, it's not a big deal. I don't think that Microsoft would have announced an add-on HD-DVD drive if they didn't have some trick up their sleeve. I personally would like HD-DVD become the next standard as i'm beginning to like it the more I find out about it. Backward compatibility and the ability to contain both standard and high definition versions of a movie are really appealing to me.
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BluRay has the same features. Regardless, I wouldn't hold my breath on that add-on drive. Add-on drives almost always fail, anyway. You wouldn't lose sleep over being shafted? I would certainly be pissed if I did.
 
steviep said:
BluRay has the same features. Regardless, I wouldn't hold my breath on that add-on drive. Add-on drives almost always fail, anyway. You wouldn't lose sleep over being shafted? I would certainly be pissed if I did.
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Well, consider what the cost of a stand-alone HD-DVD drive is going to cost, and compare that to what Microsoft would likely charge for an add-on drive. With that being the case, the cost is likely to be very similar. The difference with a stand alone unit, is that it wouldn't be dependant upon the Xbox to operate, and vice versa. Like I said, let's not speculate any longer and just wait. We don't know anything other than the fact that Microsoft announced an add-on HD-DVD drive for the 360. I have a tendency to trust Microsoft since they could have a trick up their sleeve. Also if worst comes to worst, Microsoft is big enough to where they could just bully these other developers and publishers into possibly letting them alter a requirement or two.
 
Naldo said:
The key is that in the case of the PC its reversed, the signal is starting out digital, whereas with the 360 it is starting out analog. And as you said going DVI (digital) -> VGA (analog) is simple, but going VGA to DVI is a completely different ballgame. A dvi to VGA converter cost a couple bucks (if that), a true VGA to DVI converter cost a couple hundred.

And like I said before, if they could output a digital signal, why didnt they do it from the begining? They could have just put out a DVI cable and threw in a VGA adpter for it, kill 2 birds (3 birds since DVI-> HDMI is easy too) with one stone. Them just saying "the market isnt ready for it yet" just doesnt make sense when they could have covered the enitire market simply by putting out the DVI cable instead of VGA, only valid reason why they wouldnt is because they cant.

But this isnt to say that microsoft wont just go ahead and use their billions to make sure that the 360 is the only next-gen video player that doesnt need DVI/HDMI, in that case the whole analog only output wouldnt matter and would deffinatly give them huge advantage over their competitors.
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Actually i was meaning that the 360 could be putting out a digital signal and the cables available now work just like a DVI to VGA adaptor.

And like i say. They would do this if they wanted an ace in the hole once PS3 comes out. But then i dont know anything about the 360's inner workings. But i dont think MS would have been THAT dumb to leave digital out altogether.

But time will tell.
 
Skirrow said:
Actually i was meaning that the 360 could be putting out a digital signal and the cables available now work just like a DVI to VGA adaptor.

And like i say. They would do this if they wanted an ace in the hole once PS3 comes out. But then i dont know anything about the 360's inner workings. But i dont think MS would have been THAT dumb to leave digital out altogether.

But time will tell.
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Well... then call them dumb. The output on the X360 is analogue-only. There is an internal conversion inside the box from the video chip (digital) to the video encoder (analog), of which it can only output analog signals. There will be no dvi plug or HDMI conversion. If you want to play HD-DVDs from your X360, you will have to get whatever the second revision of the X360 will be (there are rumours it will ship with a 100gb HD, too). That, or the HD-DVD add-on drive will ship with a digital output for the movie discs only... effectively making it a standalone that you have to tether to your XBox.

Microsoft presumably didn't think that digital signals would be important when they designed the system. In fact, I'd argue that they designed it with 480p in mind (as is evident by only putting 10mb of ram on the video chip, which will only produce non-tiled "free-AA" on a lower resolution, like 480p) but decided for the "HD push" when Sony revealed what they were doing with their console. To be honest, the digital signal really isn't important at all for gaming... unless you're planning on using your first-gen X360 to play HD-DVDs, in which case you're probably screwed... Bah, I hate this digital convergence crap anyway. lol
 
steviep said:
Microsoft presumably didn't think that digital signals would be important when they designed the system. In fact, I'd argue that they designed it with 480p in mind (as is evident by only putting 10mb of ram on the video chip, which will only produce non-tiled "free-AA" on a lower resolution, like 480p) but decided for the "HD push" when Sony revealed what they were doing with their console. To be honest, the digital signal really isn't important at all for gaming... unless you're planning on using your first-gen X360 to play HD-DVDs, in which case you're probably screwed... Bah, I hate this digital convergence crap anyway. lol
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They must be dumb then. BUT i dont think that only having 10mb of video memory on the gfx chip is a problem. Especially since the 10mb is EMBEDDED into the gfx chips core, if anything that will HELP with higher resolutions and it also shares the 512meg system memory also. BTW, no current PC GPU has embedded memory, including the 7900 and X1900's.

Anyway, back to the HD-DVD. Looks like they're is no point in it then. Absolutely none. MS seems to be making another mistake here then.

Still. Wont be a problem for them if Sony is prevented from releasing the PS3 thanks to the ir recent loss in court.
 
Skirrow said:
They must be dumb then. BUT i dont think that only having 10mb of video memory on the gfx chip is a problem. Especially since the 10mb is EMBEDDED into the gfx chips core, if anything that will HELP with higher resolutions and it also shares the 512meg system memory also. BTW, no current PC GPU has embedded memory, including the 7900 and X1900's.
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The problem is... for 'free' full screen 4x non-tiled AA at 720p (as was promised), you need a bit more than 10mb... it was a horrible oversight on the part of MS. Now devs have that limitation as well. They're working around it, but most games have only 2xAA if that.

Anyway, back to the HD-DVD. Looks like they're is no point in it then. Absolutely none. MS seems to be making another mistake here then.

Still. Wont be a problem for them if Sony is prevented from releasing the PS3 thanks to the ir recent loss in court.
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Well, MS may be "dumb" or lack oversight, but with the recent delay of the PS3 thanks mostly due to Blu Ray, it may also have been a smart move on their part to write off next-gen DVDs. It doesn't help their case when they annouce support for it, though.
 
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