AMD Processor Advice

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Devorikk

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Jan 24, 2006
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Ladies and Gentlemen,

I'm intested in upgrading my processor (currently a 3500+) but staying with a Socket 939 single-core solution. My current price-point is $400 and I was wondering what the best bang for my buck is, be it a 64, Opteron, or an FX.

Thanks in advance!

--Dev
 
Which Opty? Is there a single-core Opty that is better then a 4000+ and is around $400?

Thanks - Dev
 
Devorikk said:
Which Opty? Is there a single-core Opty that is better then a 4000+ and is around $400?

Thanks - Dev
Click to expand...
well, I just saw that the 150 = 4000+, so there is little difference. Price is similar too.
 
Ahh ok, yeah that is in my price range.

Ok so you would definitely recommend an Opteron 150 over an Athlon 64 4000+ anyday?

Now on to Dual-Core processors...switching settings and doing multiple fixes across all the different games I play sounds kind of daunting, but may be necessary for best performance per price.

At the end of the day, for strict game-performance (multi-tasking isn't an issue), which do you purchase?

Athlon 4000+ or
Opteron 150 or
Athlon 64 x2 4200+ ?

This may be an incredibly stupid question, but all of these are approx $360 so I have to ask... :)

The rig it would be going into is listed below...I might be interested in overclocking the best I can without making any cooling changes to my machine. Which is the best solution for non-overclocking and for overclocking?
 
quite frankly your not going to see that big of an improvement over your 3500+ in any of these processors except the x2. for a noticeable increase in fps i would go with a second 7800gtx.
 
So if I spent $450 for a second 7800GTX, I will see a much larger increase vs. the 4200+ X2? Won't the 3500+ be a bottleneck at this point?

I will definitely consider the second 7800GTX instead of the 4200+ X2, though at this point what do I need to do about cooling for an SLI system? In addition to that, I have a feeling the Antec 550W TruePower isn't going to work. Don't I need a powersupply designed for SLI?

You mentioned that I would see noticible increase with the 4200+X2 over the 3500+...is the headache of messing with affinity and changing settings for all the games + whatever framerate increase worth the price?

Thanks and sorry for all the questions,

--Dev
 
It's quite alright for the questions. Most people here are willing to help.

As far as the difference between your 3500 and X2, you'll see an increase in speed with doing multiple tasks. Your games will not be that much different. And you won't bottleneck with your 3500 and SLi. Since your processor is more than powerful enough to run games for another year or 2 (idealy).

You will probably need another power supply for SLi. And the other 7800GTX, so you are looking at about $600+ total for the upgrade depending on what brands you go with.

I'm looking to speed up my system a bit and right now, my decisions are to either go with a new PSU and 7800GTX, or WD Raptors which will definitely increase the speed of my machine and cost MUCH less.
 
Also one thing that you have to remember is that Opty's are made with much higher standards and restrictions because they are considered a server base processor. Reasoning why alot of people like these over their A64 counterpart is because with those higher restrictions you get a higher "theoretical" yeild for overclocking. Basically, with the better processor (less chance of the wafer being damaged in some portion or having a bad lead) you get a higher overclock ceiling. Basically semiconductor wafers come in 3 flavors: 6", 8" or 12". The larger the wafer the higher the theorectical yeild for a "poorer" processor, ie. larger surface area so you have more of a chance of having a bad electrical connection somewhere that may or may not affect the location of where your die was cut our. VS. smaller wafer where you have a higher theoretical yield for a bad electrical connection or say oxide-gate leakage that will affect the ENTIRE wafer. Normally the way I have interpreted it is that the larger wafers are for general public/retail processors, next is for OEMs, next is for High end top of the line retail/oem processors and/or server class processors, final is for high end server class processors.

Please understand that this information is probably not being conveyed correctly because of the fact that I am still new with my semiconductor company and was never much of an electrical engineer. But I believe you will understand the theory behind what I am saying. Basically the Opties are better processors because they are made for machines that demand better standards vs. processors that dont get as scrutinized by the public eye

Just my $.02

-Greg-
 
I woud get a dual core CPU, it is the way of the future and now that nvidia has dirvers that can take advantage if both processors it is the way to go. I recently upgrated form single core to double and i will never only have 1 CPU again. 2 is WAY better.

I you plan on OC'ing go wiht the Opteron probably the 165 and if not go with the X2 4400+
with the 1mb of cache you will notice some improvenent in games.
 
Definitely some very good information here. I'm kind of torn, lots of great advice. So far it sounds like a new PSU and a second 7800GTX will give me the best results, but that comes at a premium price. Perhaps a happy medium between getting that or a 4200+x2 is getting a 4400+x2 (at about $460)?

Keep em coming ;)

Thanks so far,
--Dev
 
what is the 12volt rail on your power supply? might be able to handle SLi.

i just upgraded to this opteron 144 from a athlon xp 2700+. i could have gone with a dual core cpu but I didnt feel like dealing with the problems dual core cpu's seem to have with running games. (setting affinity etc...) This opteron 144 @ 2.7ghz is going to last me easily 2 years, by then dual core will be worth it imo, but not at this time.

BTW, have you tried overclocking your 3500+?
 
Nope, I haven't even thought about OC'ing my 3500+. Part of the reason for that is that I don't have an idea of where to even begin :)

I know there are a few guides here on the forums for overclocking, and I'll start to take a look at those. If it's running relatively cool (I have my current heatsink/fan listed in my sig), do you think I can overclock it without having to worry about additional cooling?

--Dev
 
Devorikk said:
Nope, I haven't even thought about OC'ing my 3500+. Part of the reason for that is that I don't have an idea of where to even begin :)

I know there are a few guides here on the forums for overclocking, and I'll start to take a look at those. If it's running relatively cool (I have my current heatsink/fan listed in my sig), do you think I can overclock it without having to worry about additional cooling?

--Dev
Click to expand...
oh hell yeah you can easily overclock it without worrying about additional cooling. go check out eclipses overclock guide in one of the stickies at the top of this forum. its dead easy! fyi: im on a stock amd opteron heastsink (pretty much the same as the a64 stock heatsink) and im clocked at 2.7ghz, stock clockspeed was 1.8ghz
 
Wow, well THAT sounds great! I think I will be perfectly fine overclocking the processor and saving some $ for now! :)

Thank you's to everyone that helped!

--Dev
 
your welcome man, btw you could always overclock your video card for more performance too. ;)


edit: let us know how the overclocking goes
 
Depending on the games you play, purchasing another 7800GTX will not benefit you enough to justify the cost. You'd be almost better off going with Raptors or something if you want a performance increase. But those will mostly just speed up your load times.
 
Yeah, I think for now I will stay away from getting a second vid-card. The overclocking idea sounds great...I need to put in some good BF2 time on my rig as it stands to find out what my temps are and then I'll start to play with eclipse's guide.

It's a tad daunting but hopefully I don't screw up that bad :)

--Dev
 
I would get an Opte 170 for $400, the best all around deal right now.

2.0GHz dual core
1Mb cache per core
and it is an OPTE

once you figure out how to OC it, you should be able to do +2.5GHz with out too much of a problem

maybe even get your self a nice set of PC4000 or some TCCD and run 1:1
 
What is the Opteron 170 equivelent to, in the 64/64x2/FX line? Is that a better choice than the 4200x2/4400x2?

If you think the differences will be quite noticible between a stock 3500+ and the Opteron 170, I may consider that, especially if I can OC the Opteron without additional cooling.

However, if the differences won't be that great, (and I'm still not sure I'm a fan of messing with affinity, etc on Dual Core), I may just stick with OC'ing the 3500+ for now.

Regarding the RAM, how much of a difference would the PC4000 really make?

Thanks,
--D
 
ram really isnt that important on amd64. i mean look at my sig. pc2700 ram and im still able to overclock to 2.7ghz (300htt)
 
your Zalman 7000 will be more than enough to cool an OPTE.

an OPTE 170 is a one of a kind, I guess the closest thign to it is an X2 3800+ but it has 1Mb cache instead of only 512Kb like the 3800+

I do not have affinity problems but i only play CS:S and Starwars Galaxies. to set the affinity to a Processor takes like 5 seconds. Open task manager right click on the process you want to set the affinity on, slesct affinity form the menue the select the core you want it on either 0 or 1 ans hit OK (easy). you can also edit the shortcut of the game you are trying to run with either "-A0" for core 0 or "-A1" for core 1 and it will set the affinity when you start the program.

PC 4000 will only make a difference if you set your FSB to 250 and run the RAM in 1:1 ( also at 250) giving you DDR 500. I like faster RAM it make the computer seem quicker and i get a higher FPS in games. it is not necessary but it can improve performance.

here it what i would do.
1. learn to OC on your 3500+ ( and watch the for sale section in the mean time)
I got my opte 165 for $250 and it is currently @ 2.73GHz with a Big Typhoon.
2.if you decinde you want to go DC i would definately go with the OPTE over the X2 and then decide on the one you want.
The prices are supposed to be droping on all AMD DC CPU's, but we will see.
3.OC your new CPU and get faster frame rates thatn you have ever gotten.
4.OC your GFX card for a few more FPS
5.Look into getting some higher speed RAM or just OC the stuff you have and see what it will do.
6.get some fAster HD's, those new 150Gb Raptors make me go :eek:
7. then if you computer is not fast enough get a second GFX card
 
So being that a OPTE 170 is closest to a 3800x2, does that make the 4200x2/4400x2 better? Is $60+ for the 4400x2 over the OPTE 170 worth it?

That sounds like a good plan...I'd like to see what I can do with the 3500+ for now.

--Dev
 
the 4400+ runs @ 2.2 and the 170 runs @ 2.0.

if you do not OC than the 4400 would be better but if you OC there is a better chance of you getting a higher OC from the OPTE because it has to be at higher standards than the X2 because it is a server CPU
 
Ok, but OC or not is the Opteron 170 better than the 4200x2 no matter what?

Great information, thx.
 
the opteron has to pass more rigorous testing than the X2 other than that they are basically the same CPU.

you can get an OEM OPTE 170 for $385 for tankguys.com
 
I woud get a dual core CPU, it is the way of the future and now that nvidia has dirvers that can take advantage if both processors it is the way to go.
Click to expand...
I don't mean to sidetrack this thread but is there a good review(s) out there showing the improvement with the new drivers on a dual-core chip?

-Yaden
 
To get the heat up on my rig, I ran 3DM06 several times over an hour-and-a-half period. After doing so, I checked BIOS and got the following temps:

CPU: 56 C
MB: 37 C

Nothing is overclocked...isn't that a high CPU temp for 3500+?

--Dev
 
that is definatley a little on the HOT side, try reseating the HSF.

do you have good air flow through your case, maybe remove the side panell.
 
Devorikk said:
So being that a OPTE 170 is closest to a 3800x2, does that make the 4200x2/4400x2 better? Is $60+ for the 4400x2 over the OPTE 170 worth it?

That sounds like a good plan...I'd like to see what I can do with the 3500+ for now.

--Dev
Click to expand...

Just get a Opte 165. $325 on newegg and you stil get dual core AND dual 1mb cache. I'm sure you won't have problems OCing it to an acceptable level.
 
Devorikk said:
At the end of the day, for strict game-performance (multi-tasking isn't an issue), which do you purchase?

Athlon 4000+ or
Opteron 150 or
Athlon 64 x2 4200+ ?

This may be an incredibly stupid question, but all of these are approx $360 so I have to ask... :)

The rig it would be going into is listed below...I might be interested in overclocking the best I can without making any cooling changes to my machine. Which is the best solution for non-overclocking and for overclocking?
Click to expand...


For most games the single core 2.4GHz 1MB cache cpus will win

Only game I have heard about being optimized for dual cores so far is Quake 4. Look into that to see what kind of gains they got. Doesn't mean every game will have similar boost though.

Instead of a 4000+ or Opteron 150, I think you should get a 3700+ (2.2GHz 1MB L2 cache) instead. They are about $100 less than the others (lowest on pricewatch is $210). You should be able to overclock that to 2.4GHz easily. The heatsink/fan you have is pretty good and it seems like most new A64s can get to 2.4~2.6GHz or higher.

I would recommend overclocking a 3700 for the best game performance. and its about half your budget
 
If I were you I wouldnt upgrade anything. Your current comp is fine. A faster Single core cpu is pointless. You currently have a very good one. Even if you buy a fx-57, you wont see more than a 5 fps improvement in most games(if not all). Dual core might be worth it, if you multi task, if not there is no point.

Games are much more dependent on the graphics card. And your current graphics card is fast enough, if it is not, I would get a X1900XT. But even those aren't much faster than what you got.

Depending on your current Hard Drive, a Western Digital Raptor might be a good upgrade. But only get one if your current HD is an old IDE, as the current SATA HD's are almost as fast as a Raptor.

Another option is to go water cooling. You could built a very nice setup for ~$300. This would allow you to overclock further, not to mention it looks cool. :cool:

Yet another option is a new moniter. A Dell 20" Widescreen would be pretty sweet.

EDIT: Nice case. I have the same one. :D
 
IMO, if u do decide to go dual core i'd definatlly go with a dual core opty, they're much better chips than the X2's . They are netting higher overclocks and if u get the 165, then you'll be saving a hell of alot of money. (I paid $300 flat for mine). You're call tho, I've noticed a huge difference in overall preformance in everything with the dual core, not to mention alot of games are going to start taking advantage of both cores in the future.

fyi - i have yet to see anything issues with gaming and my dual core, and i haven't even done any of the fixes. Think it runs system to system, so u might not even need it. ;)
 
Howdy folks!

Thanks for all of the responses! I think in my near future (when M2 comes out and price drop occurs), the Opteron 170/175 will be purchased.

I spent the entire weekend working on my system with a good buddy of mine, and came to a conclusion. The EVGA 7800GTX 256 sucks. With the system exactly as it states in my sig, I was scoring ~7850 on 3DMark05, and experiencing some choppiness with Battlefield 2 at 1280x1024 with everything on high. This isn't what I expected from a ~$500.00 investment.

Taking Pandora's advice, we went ahead and OC'd the 3500+ slightly to 2.4ghz and the video card up to 500/1300. After that we tested again (stable) but got absolutely NO DIFFERENCE on the 3DMark05. I wasn't expecting much of a CPU score increase, but definitely graphics. It's almost like that video card is locked or governed.

Regardless, I'm pretty disappointed, but maybe I shouldn't be. What are your thoughts?

Thanks!
--Dev
 
I don't know about improvement, but there is a mighty big thread over at nvidia's forums complaining about dual core problems with nforce dual core enabled drivers
Click to expand...
I'm Running the beta 82.65 drivers with some dual core fixes and i've been having no issues really so i think some of those issues are hit and miss.
 
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