[H] Holiday System Guide - 2005

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FrgMstr

FrgMstr

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[H] Holiday System Guide - 2005

As the 2005 holiday season is near, we dug deep into our holiday cheer and came up with a Newegg four-way system buying guide. We applied $500 and $1000 to upgrade systems and $1200 and $2000 to full systems for both AMD and Intel-based purchases

We would be happy to hear your thoughts and viewpoints on how you would go about the upgrades and builds.
 
I would have ditched one of the two hard drives for 2GB of memory, but other than that, it looks good.
 
Interesting... I would've gone dual core for both of the $2000 systems personally, and just not included the speakers/monitor in the pricing, but some solid recommendations.
 
GForce64 said:
I would have ditched one of the two hard drives for 2GB of memory, but other than that, it looks good.
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Not quite. Maxtor's DiamondMax drives offer the same thing at a much lower price point:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822140168
Would have gotten two of those instead of the WD drives and put the money into more RAM. Also, they chose overclocker's RAM, but the stock HSF? Seems like a waste.

Barring the RAM and HDs, this system is a good all-around system. To be quite honest, I had recently lost faith in [H]ard's system guides (always seemed like they missed an obvious point). For example, in the Q3-05 they suggested an Athlon X2 4400+, but only a 6600GT (and a crappy brand 6600GT at that rate). This guide has restored my faith. Good call on the GPU, PSU, and Motherboards.
 
sac_tagg said:
For example, in the Q3-05 they suggested an Athlon X2 4400+, but only a 6600GT (and a crappy brand 6600GT at that rate). This guide has restored my faith. Good call on the GPU, PSU, and Motherboards.
Click to expand...

That's not a bad combo. The 6600GT has enough horsepower to do any task other than hardcore gaming, and hardcore gamers usually buy purpose-built systems and wouldn't benefit from dual core.
 
With the "Deathstar" debacle behind them, I'm running and recommending Hitachi drives for systems I build. The ones I've had my hands on lately are fast, quiet, and in terms of performance seem to be at or near the top of most benchmarks; very close to the Raptors without the heat and noise. But, admittedly, this is a nit.....

The 2GB RAM vs. second hard drive debate is interesting, but one thing I've been doing with two drive machines is not running RAID0, and instead wrote a batch file that copies everything I'd want to save from drive 1 onto 2 and verse visa. A fast, easy way to "backup" my stuff and unless both drives bite it at the same time, it's a reasonable way to give you some additional personal data protection. Guys with systems I set up this way like it as well.

Good guide, Kyle and staff - :cool:

Regards - B.B.S.
 
NulloModo said:
That's not a bad combo. The 6600GT has enough horsepower to do any task other than hardcore gaming, and hardcore gamers usually buy purpose-built systems and wouldn't benefit from dual core.
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I'm a hardcore gamer that would LOVE to game while waiting for my audio files to encode.
 
I have quite a few similar components in my wish list for the near future for my own upgrading. However, I'm going rather power hungry and plan to buy the Enermax Noisetaker 600W PSU in my setup. The Thermaltake Soprano case looks very enticing as well, so I may sit down, compare all 4, and pick and choose my final upgrade option from there.
 
Curious, why not pick the 600-series for the P4 boxes? An extra meg of cache, runs cooler/quieter, and has the full 64-bit extensions (the 5x0J chips do have 64-bit, do they?). I myself would pick something from the 600-series if I was putting something together.
 
Nice hardware picks, good for someone that doesn't know exactually what they want. I found it odd between the $1200 and $2000 complete systems that one included a monitor and speakers and the other didnt (~$450). Almost making the $1200 it an upgrade path. Might want to definite a complete system a little more. Only other thing I might suggest is including shipping prices. Some things are expensive to ship.

Hard choice between 2GB of ram or 2 Harddrives :) (gaming = ram, video = HDs)
 
The upgrades seemed reasonable to me, unfortunately I'm in the middle of building a house so I have to do a more piecemeal approach, also considering I have a halfbuilt system of handmedown parts I'm setting up for the kids. I'll be able to do a full brain transplant ie mb/cpu/video in the upgrade after this. So my path differs somewhat: 1 gig matched ddr400 memory- lets me put my old ddr266 mem in the hand me down for the time being, and will still be good for the next round. Both current and handmedown MB still on AGP, but put the icky 5200 in the kids system (they're young enough not to care) and upgrade to a 6600GT which is nicely cheap these days. Upgrade monitor from 17" CRT to 19" capable of 1600x1200. Kids get 17". Swap cd burner for dvd burner. and put the cd burner in the kid's box. Anything left over goes to a fatter HD. That gets me ready for next year's round of upgrades.and I can do this even paying the outrageous import duties and shipping (I moved to Brasil a few years back)
 
Nice choice on the EVGA Geforce 7800GT - like my XFX 7800GT it is a heck of a value for gamers. I also just got that Samsung monitor, while I am having issues with it (I plan to RMA it soon) I know a lot of people are very happy with it.
For example, in the Q3-05 they suggested an Athlon X2 4400+, but only a 6600GT (and a crappy brand 6600GT at that rate). This guide has restored my faith. Good call on the GPU, PSU, and Motherboards.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

-Yaden
 
Hmm...probably more of a question for the video card forums, but would it be better to do SLI 6600GS or a single 7800GT?
 
OmegaAquinas said:
Hmm...probably more of a question for the video card forums, but would it be better to do SLI 6600GS or a single 7800GT?
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My opinion would be single 7800 GT, that way you get the benefit of Transparency Antialiasing techniques and Gamma Correct AA.
 
i dont get the guides. why call them FULL system builds when they are not. windows, keyboard, and mouse would be nice for starters. why the hell spend $1200 and get a 6800gs. if your building from scratch then why get something thats already going to struggle in some games. just get a cheaper motherboard and hardrive so you can get a 7800gt. these are for gaming after all. the 7800gt is only $100 more and will nearly double your fps plus have have better features. you NEED atleast a 7800gt if you want to play fear and cod2 at a decent resolution smoothly. the $2000 should have a 7800gtx. that would make more sense than the 2 harddrives. why do you include a monitor and speakers for the $2000 but not on the $1200. to me these guides are pretty useless.
 
Hmm, also, I am curious about that Plextor burner. You can get a NEC 3550 for $50, which is every bit as good (if not better) for a burner than the Plextor, granted it is only a $30 savings, but $30 is $30.
 
Nice hardware choices but they simple don't make sense. A Biostar SLI mother board can be had for half the price, BenQ DVDRW also can be had at half the price.... It seems that too much of an over clocking foundation was laid here. While over clocking is nice way to squeeze some extra perforce out you system, it appears to me that I could buy that extra performance and more, for the same price, without sacrificing stability.
 
NulloModo said:
Hmm, also, I am curious about that Plextor burner. You can get a NEC 3550 for $50, which is every bit as good (if not better) for a burner than the Plextor, granted it is only a $30 savings, but $30 is $30.
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I agree the NEC offers the best bang for the buck. I have 2 and they work great. (I also like the Pioneer drives).

I also noticed that niether [H] or TR could recommend ATI. ATI really needs to pull it together next year.
 
PRIME1 said:
I agree the NEC offers the best bang for the buck. I have 2 and they work great. (I also like the Pioneer drives).

I also noticed that niether [H] or TR could recommend ATI. ATI really needs to pull it together next year.
Click to expand...

Eh, unfortunately, and as much as I love ATI, the only two battles they are winning right now are top AGP performer (X850XT PE) and top single card PCI-E solution (X1800XT). I will have to see a review of X1800XTs in crossfire before I can say if they take out dual 7800GTXs... especially with these new 16x SLI boards.

Plus, both of those solutions are a lot more expensive that the next fastest solution from nVidia... Worth it for a top end balls to the wall system, but not for two moderately priced ones like were designed here.
 
NulloModo said:
top single card PCI-E solution (X1800XT). I will have to see a review of X1800XTs in crossfire before I can say if they take out dual 7800GTXs... especially with these new 16x SLI boards.
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Well not to thread jack, but every site I have read gives the nod to the GTX512 as the top single card.

And to get back on topic, I am looking forward to the new 975X Intel Chipset and hopefully better Intel dual core CPU's. My next system will be dual core and I would like to build an Intel system, but the X2 is clearly superior. A dual core price drop would also be nice :)
 
PRIME1 said:
And to get back on topic, I am looking forward to the new 975X Intel Chipset and hopefully better Intel dual core CPU's. My next system will be dual core and I would like to build an Intel system, but the X2 is clearly superior. A dual core price drop would also be nice :)
Click to expand...

I agree, let's hope an improved memory controller will make all the difference... With Cedar Mill clock speeds sure to ramp up very fast, and more efficient memory access for both cores, it should help a lot at least...
 
I would have gone dual core instead of the 4000+. I am doing a system upgrade this month and the 1GB of XMS is a good buy. I also think that the 3200 939 processor is an excellent choice. I am also going to purchase the XFX 6800GS over the EVGA since it is clocked higher for $15 bucks more.

Overall, a good guide for everyone. I can't wait until my system is done. :D
 
BlindedByScience said:
With the "Deathstar" debacle behind them, I'm running and recommending Hitachi drives for systems I build. The ones I've had my hands on lately are fast, quiet, and in terms of performance seem to be at or near the top of most benchmarks; very close to the Raptors without the heat and noise. But, admittedly, this is a nit.....
Click to expand...
Hitachi, unlike Seagate, Western Digital, and Maxtor (but similar to Samsung) does not have advance replacement as part of their RMA program. For this reason and those of customer service (not of their drive quality) I just won't get them for me or anyone else. I can't rely on other people to back up their data, and there's a chance I'll need their replacement drive to try and clone the old one if it fails. I also like not being in limbo (drive disappears somewhere between me and the check-in process in the RMA dept. at said company) which has happened to me twice with two different drive vendors over the years.

The one thing I would have liked to see was a recommendation for a sound card. Lowering the CPU usage, and adding 3D-positional audio for games can be a good thing and still be done on a reasonable budget (certainly for the $2,000 systems at least). Other than that, I found the article pretty good.
 
Two sets of recommendations for each price point would have been nice. One with monitors and speakers, one without.

Your motherboard recommendation for the $1200 build is a bit pricey, in my opinion. A top end SLI board really has no place in a mid-budget gaming build. Save eighty or a hundred bucks and get a less expensive motherboard, then you can plop in a 7800 GT, or stick with the GS and get an X2 3800+. That Plextor burner is a bit pricey, too. You could still get a plenty decent burner for half half that price and add in a reasonably good sound card.
 
I would tend to agree, ditch the SLI board (though that is a very nice one) and stick to a single 7800GT or GTX, would think most gamers would find that to be plenty of power... I sure do with a single 7800GT. SLI is great but certianly not necessary unless you are pushing for absolute top gaming (at 1600x1200+ and that monitor is set to 1280x1024 regardless).

-Yaden
 
Is it a coincidence that the recommended [H]ard|Drive, the WD2500KS, appears in my sig system? ;)

However, I disagree with the reasoning behind the recommendation of them. Synthetic seek time figures mean little in terms of desktop storage performance buffer size and optimization is far and away the biggest factor in desktop storage performance. The WD740GD will school the WD2500KS in a synthetic seek time and transfer test, but the drives will be much closer in terms of overall system responsiveness. Also, strangely ommitted is the WD2500KS's fantastic cool and quiet operation.

Please, stop with the RAID-0 insanity. Yes, it might increase performance by around 20-30% in content creation work and bootup (most of the bootup gains are lost when the RAID BIOS runs anyway), but it increases system complexity, reduces reliability, makes recovery and installation more complicated, and really doesn't do much for office productivity and gaming storage performance. RAID-0 is barely worth its drawbacks in situations where it scales well like workstation/content creation applications. It is hardly worth it for desktop users and gamers. Gamers are better off allocating their dollars to a better video card, faster CPU, or more RAM before going to RAID-0.
 
Overall the guide was good but the $2000 system was a bit off to me.

As mentioned no keyboard/mouse...or OS is included or S/H for that matter.

Also i would drop the monitor and speakers and gone dual core or perhaps a second 7800gt.
 
Before the heavy-duty stuff, I noticed something interesting. For the AMD $2000 system, there is $161.07 left over. A 7800GTX costs about $150 more than a 7800GT. Why didn't you go with the GTX, since it would have fit in the budget?

ecktt said:
While over clocking is nice way to squeeze some extra performance out you system, it appears to me that I could buy that extra performance and more, for the same price, without sacrificing stability.
Click to expand...

I agree. I wonder how the guide would have turned out if overclocking/RAID/SLI were not factors. The money saved by going with 'value' RAM (save $40), a single hard drive (save $110), a more mainstream/value motherboard (save $80), and a nice NEC 3550 (save $40) would give you enough for a 20" LCD (~$250 more) or a very significant processor upgrade (e.g. X2 4600 at the same 2.4GHz as the 4000+ for ~$300 more).

I would also agree with the other comments about not including the monitor and speakers in the $1200 system. Excluding them, there is little difference between the $1200 and $2000 systems. Perhaps in the future it would make more sense to write a "System Guide" for everything in the case, and a "Monitor & Peripherals" guide for the other things (KB, mouse, monitor, speakers, etc).

Yeah, I'm a critic like everybody else, but I do appreciate the guides every once in a while--they give a nice perspective, and good idea of what the [H] staff consider important in a new computer.
 
my pick for a $2000 rig case excluded because you can make one out of cardboard from the shipping boxes and really good speakers exluded because I prefer headset

FX-53 $630
maxtor 250GB $99
corsir 1GB $105
500W power supply $50 <---actually $45 messed up on hotlinking
A8N-SLI premium used $120
BFG 7800 512MB! $750
DVD combo drive $26
17" LCD $195
keyboard mouse speaker combo $20
pre shipping cost:$1990

its a good idea to get a buy.com newsletter because of rebates and since your using a computer to veiw this you can probably re-use some of the parts to get a lower number of the rigs price
pricewatch.com
techbargains.com
froogle.com
 
neloangelo said:
my pick for a $2000 rig case excluded because you can make one out of cardboard from the shipping boxes and really good speakers exluded because I prefer headset

FX-53 $630
maxtor 250GB $99
corsir 1GB $105
500W power supply $50 <---actually $45 messed up on hotlinking
A8N-SLI premium used $120
BFG 7800 512MB! $750
DVD combo drive $26
17" LCD $195
keyboard mouse speaker combo $20
pre shipping cost:$1990

its a good idea to get a buy.com newsletter because of rebates and since your using a computer to veiw this you can probably re-use some of the parts to get a lower number of the rigs price
Click to expand...
why would you be stupid and get an fx53 for $630 when you can buy a 4000 for $330. the 4000 is the SAME thing. a small 17 inch lcd doesnt make any sense either. why the hell would you get a 7800gtx 512 and lock yourself into a 1280x1024 resolution. i hope you are not actually getting those parts because you seem pretty clueless.
 
neloangelo said:
well I didnt know that thank you for saving me $200
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that would be $300 saved not $200. you could use that towards a bigger and better 20 inch monitor.
 
Someone mentioned adding in the cost of a new windows XP to the total. I was wondering what you guys recommend, the 32-bit version or the 64-bit version of windows?

I've heard some people have trouble with getting drivers to work with the 64-bit windows and haven't been able to find any benchmarks comparing the two.
 
32 bit all the way. 64 bit has lots of driver and software incompatibilities, and 32 bit performs virtually the same in 99% of applications.

The move from 16 bit to 32 bit was needed, the move to 64 bit was an AMD marketing ploy.
 
Here is a Newegg wishlist that I worked up in about 10 minutes...

You could argue that the 50 dollars in shipping puts me over by about 45 dollars, but I'd remind you that you'll have 92 dollars in rebates coming back to you eventually.

EDIT: Note also that the wishlist function at newegg is retarded and doesn't show some of the combo discounts like the -$129.00 for the free evga motherboard...
 
dewhite said:
Here is a Newegg wishlist that I worked up in about 10 minutes...

You could argue that the 50 dollars in shipping puts me over by about 45 dollars, but I'd remind you that you'll have 92 dollars in rebates coming back to you eventually.

EDIT: Note also that the wishlist function at newegg is retarded and doesn't show some of the combo discounts like the -$129.00 for the free evga motherboard...
Click to expand...
no OS as usual. why do have have two DIFFERENT video cards listed?
 
well even though there are current incompatabilities with the 64-bit OS it will improve as upcoming games and programs demand more power

so really you might be saving money instead of getting a 32-bit then having to buy a 64-bit later on if you want to have the ultimate experience
 
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