2405FPW need opinions etc to quench my insanity! or is it?

Hello all,

I have been lurking these boards for a looong ass time, but I could never setup an account because I just have a hotmail, gmail, and yahoo email account, till now!

anyways, I rececently bought the 2405FPW and received it exactly 2 weeks ago.

Let me start by saying, that the 2D quality is superior to my old 19" CRT Viewsonic Professional.

now to the typical checklist.

No Backlight bleeding - Check!
No Dead Pixels - Check!
No Crooked mount - Check!
No Mouse Lag - Check!
No Buzzing - Check!

the monitor is perfect..

but now, to my concern...

My 20 days satisfaction or money back guranteed is over tomorrow! tomorrow at 6pm to be precise.

this is my beef:

In WOW, it looks beautifull, but when it is dark outside, I see like a slight shimmering on the ground.. kinda hard to decribe.. never seen that before. No big deal.. but just thought it was a little strange

Quake III, it works nice, I run it at 1600X1200.. and it looks good, good FPS.. Im not sure If I dont really notice much because its soo fast action paced. I hadnt played it in a loong time on my CRT.

playing Unrealk Tournament 2003, at 1900X1200 it looks good.. runs fine.. godd FPS..but there is a bit of teearing some times.. I mean barely, but I see it once in a while. Also, the walls.. seem to shake a bit sometimes.. hmm..

Doom3, the colors are great.. the black levels is good, you can tell what is black and what is not so black.. my only beef is that it is displaying a good FPS like 40-50, but is sorta feels that it studders a little bit, and it feels sorta sluggish. I am mainting the resolution lo like 1024X768 w.. not native 1900X1200..

In HL2 I am playing and it is clocking a steady 40-60FPS, but for some reason it feels like lagged.. strange.. a little bit like the character is skating in ice. I am using the option in the monitor that it fills the screen.
I am playing with a resolution of 1280X1024, that with my CRT played perfectly. but for some reason, it feels odd with this LCD. Also in Counterstrike-source it feels sluggish, like it studders sometimes.. the FPS are high, like 50-60s.. but it studders a tad bit.

Movies, it looks great! no complaints.. the blacks are great.. etc.

I have a Radeon 9800pro 256MB mem. I am playing at the settings that it played perfect with with my old monitor.

Argh, this is tough.. what to do? I am being super picky?

Is it me? being crazy? I just dont want to regret this purchase.. because it came out to 950 with taxes.

Is it my being nuts? Are LCDs just this way?

I CANT get another CRT.. I just dont have the space.. (city living NYC)

I have till tomorrow, but I need input.

Please give me constructive comments!

your post confuses me. If you cant live with the things your having trouble with then return it, if its not a big deal to you keep it.

Im confused myself..

I dont understand why Quake III looks fine... but HL2 feels sluggish evethough its displaying a constant 60FPS. I dont understand why CS-Source studders a bit.. when they where all fine with my CRT.

That is my problem

If I got a super powerfull graphics card and cpu would that solve that issue in HL2? I just dont understand why it does that when it was fine with my CRT.

A 9800pro is gonna have a tough time dishing out native rez on that monitor with todays games, your probably experience dramatic *slowdowns and speedups* as a result of the increased strain on your card. 1920x1200 even puts a sweat on a 7800GTX, I should know, I own one.

IT sounds like you are experiencing textur tearing, especially in HL2. It is a result of what happens when the game goes above 60fps, because the 2450 is incapable of going any faster then refreshing its data at 60hertz, itresults in texture "tearing" or seemingly, slowdown feeling in the game. Enabling VSYNC in games lock that game at the particular running frequency but has a tendancy to dip into the 30fps range when the card can't sustain the 60fps so you get these "yo yo" effects in your framerate but its not nearly as bad as the monitor being unable to refresh beyond 60hertz.

Your CRT could probably easily do 85hertz which means your games IF they went that high of a framerate, you didn't experience the same kind of "tearing" as a result of drawing the incoming data at a faster rate, hence one of the "gripes with LCD's" they don't refresh as fast as CRT's do.

The 2405 costs too much for you to be unhappy with it. Call Dell to return it, and they might offer you a discount voucher of $100 to give you an incentive to keep it. If they don't then, you should return it because later on, it will drive you crazy as you find more things wrong with it.

It is a tough decision.

Someone posted some tweaks to make the panels more responsive. It might not apply to you because you don't have any mouse lag.

I think you are being picky, and should keep it.... LCDs aren't as good with games as CRTs in a lot of ways, but they excel in others. There is always a tradeoff. That's why I wound up going CRT after reading many threads about the 2405. I would say only send it back if you are just going to fork over a ton more money for a more expensive widescreen display that may be (slightly) superior, or just wind up settling with another CRT.

However that being said, with some tweaking, or upgrading your video card, you will probably eliminate those few problems. And from the sounds of it, you have one of the most flawless 2405's out there. It would suck to return it, and get another LCD and find out it has those problems and many more!

I'm waiting on my 2nd 2405FPW Exchange as I write this.

The first one I had was perfect (no dead pixels, no buzz), except for backlight bleeding on dark screens. This was especially annoying in FEAR, Doom3 or Riddick.

I got my 2nd one and it seemed perfect and I noticed no backlighting problems when I initially hooked it up. However after a couple days, the backlighting issue popped up again. The box it came in was all fucked up though, I'm starting to think that it leaves Dell in good condition, but gets roughed up during shipping. DHL sucks.

So, now I'm waiting for my 3rd attempt on this thing. I love the monitor, but the backlight problems annoys the hell out of me and I will not live with it. I paid $750 for the monitor and even though I got a good price on it, $750 bucks is still a lot of money and I will not live with a defective display. So, hopefully this time around I will get one that I can live with.

I would recommend to anyone that has bought one of these displays to keep returning them until you get one that you can live with. Unless you are fucking LOADED and can afford to just toss $750+ at a monitor and not give a shit about the quality of all aspects of the display then do not settle with anything other then what you can live with. I understand that LCD's have their limitations, but when your display has what looks like light splotches (3 or 4 of them) on dark screens, then that is not acceptable.

gn0me said:

... Unless you are fucking LOADED and can afford to just toss $750+ at a monitor and not give a shit about the quality of all aspects of the display then do not settle with anything other then what you can live with. ...

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Talk about loaded. That system you have in your sig is pretty much the pinnacle of systems. You must have dropped some coin on that. Very nice. The only thing you are missing is dual 2405's

IceWind said:

A 9800pro is gonna have a tough time dishing out native rez on that monitor with todays games, your probably experience dramatic *slowdowns and speedups* as a result of the increased strain on your card. 1920x1200 even puts a sweat on a 7800GTX, I should know, I own one.

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I am not running the game at NATIVE res. I am running it at 1280X1024.. the same rez that I used to use with my CRT, thus the stable 40-60FPS. That is why it blows my mind.

actually he should really have 3 if he games

but on topic I've got mine and don't really game very much on it but with a 7800GT I haven't noticed any real problems... I love the monitor.. don't know if I could tell what backlight bleeding is even if I saw it but I checked it for dead and or stuck pixels and I didn't have any of those which is what i was more worried about... during movies my blacks look black so I'm good with mine... you wanna be happy with a purchase this substantial but at the same time if you can't afford it and that is what is making you question it then i'd return it... you can always get one later when they come down in price b/c sure as life goes on prices will drop when the next best thing comes along... could bue OLEDs soon enough.....

hhookk said:

Talk about loaded. That system you have in your sig is pretty much the pinnacle of systems. You must have dropped some coin on that. Very nice. The only thing you are missing is dual 2405's

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Thanks for the compliment. I spent about $2600 for all the computer parts and then another $750 for the monitor. I wanted a system that I would not have to worry about upgrading (major upgrades) for a few years. With everything I have now, I should be good for the next 3 years or so (hopefully). The only thing I'm not certain about is the Monitor at this point because I'm working on my 2nd replacement. I'm sure it'll work out eventually though.

troostj said:

I am not running the game at NATIVE res. I am running it at 1280X1024.. the same rez that I used to use with my CRT, thus the stable 40-60FPS. That is why it blows my mind.

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In that case, you are experience "texture tearing" and game "jumping" as a result of the LCD not being able to refresh the screen data faster then 60fps. Your CRT monitor could easily go to 85-100hertz, thus it had a much higher FPS level before it texture tore, while the 2405 is locked at 60hertz. Try enabling VSYNC in your games and see if notice an improvement.

IceWind said:

In that case, you are experience "texture tearing" and game "jumping" as a result of the LCD not being able to refresh the screen data faster then 60fps. Your CRT monitor could easily go to 85-100hertz, thus it had a much higher FPS level before it texture tore, while the 2405 is locked at 60hertz. Try enabling VSYNC in your games and see if notice an improvement.

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I did enable Vsync.. but I still get tearing.. like horizontally, kinda strange. I was playing HL2 but had to stop because it was making me dizzy. I dont think it has to do with the size of the screen, but with the fluidity of the movement.

So the screen tearing is a property of the monitor? so I will see this with ALL LCDs?

If I get more powerfull CPU and Graphics card, it will get rid of the tearing?

I do like how it plays with WOW, but I cannot justify a LCD just for a mmorpg, I like playing FPS too.

troostj said:

I did enable Vsync.. but I still get tearing.. like horizontally, kinda strange. I was playing HL2 but had to stop because it was making me dizzy. I dont think it has to do with the size of the screen, but with the fluidity of the movement.

So the screen tearing is a property of the monitor? so I will see this with ALL LCDs?

If I get more powerfull CPU and Graphics card, it will get rid of the tearing?

I do like how it plays with WOW, but I cannot justify a LCD just for a mmorpg, I like playing FPS too.

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This is the case for ALL LCD's and getting a better CPU and graphics card will only make it worse as it will just increase the framerate and the more your screen will tear as a result.

I dunno really what else you can do, are you hooked up via VGA or DVI? VGA does allow up to 70hertz but you loose visual clarity.

I run this monitor playing BF2 and HL2 which are fast paced games, I allow the texture tearing to happen because I don't like VSYNC "halfing" my FPS if it can't sustain 60fps all the time, frame rate drops are even more annoying

Icewind, thanks for all your replies.

I am running with the DVI cable.

I have my laptop hooked up with the VGA cable, and the VGA signal is horrendous.

Anyways, OMG.. so all LCDs are like this? I was contemplating returing this and trying to find that Samsun with the 8ms responce time.. 21.3 viewable.

I really lke the widescreen aspect though..

OOh man.. 2 hours and counting..

So the screen tearing is a property of the monitor? so I will see this with ALL LCDs?

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No and No

I would just send the monitor back. With your set up just buy a nice 19 inch LCD and be happy.

Go4hunter said:

No and No

I would just send the monitor back. With your set up just buy a nice 19 inch LCD and be happy.

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I dont want a 19" screen. I want to buy something to equip me for a future upgrade that I'm goiung to do after new years. (Graphics card, mobo, cpu)

but from icewinds post, I took that all LCDs show tearing on fast action First Person games.

Why are you saying that I should get a 19" lcd?? If Im running at 1280X1024 on my 2405FPW why would it make a differnce if its a 19" LCD running at 1280X1024? Its the same resolution, the card will process the same renderable area.

troostj said:

I dont want a 19" screen. I want to buy something to equip me for a future upgrade that I'm goiung to do after new years. (Graphics card, mobo, cpu)

but from icewinds post, I took that all LCDs show tearing on fast action First Person games.

Why are you saying that I should get a 19" lcd?? If Im running at 1280X1024 on my 2405FPW why would it make a differnce if its a 19" LCD running at 1280X1024? Its the same resolution, the card will process the same renderable area.

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Because you're running the 2405fpw out of its native resolution which causes more motion blur & slightly degraded image quality vs. an LCD running at 1280x1024 Natively.

mathesar said:

Because you're running the 2405fpw out of its native resolution which causes more motion blur & slightly degraded image quality vs. an LCD running at 1280x1024 Natively.

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Its not the motion blurr or the degraded image, I understand that something running out of the monitors native res will not have the best image.. I am talking about missing Frames in the fluidity of movement in First Person shooters.

I have 2 hours.. its mountain time when I can send the email for a full refund.

I guess the 16ms is perhaps to high for First Person Shooters?

I might have to wait till a nice 23" or 24" widescreen comes out with low 8ms responce time.

your thoughts?

troostj said:

Its not the motion blurr or the degraded image, I understand that something running out of the monitors native res will not have the best image.. I am talking about missing Frames in the fluidity of movement in First Person shooters.

I have 2 hours.. its mountain time when I can send the email for a full refund.

I guess the 16ms is perhaps to high for First Person Shooters?

I might have to wait till a nice 23" or 24" widescreen comes out with low 8ms responce time.

your thoughts?

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Bud, I honestly don't know what to tell you. If the monitor isn't up your standards, return and wait for a better LCD or wait for SED technology to replace LCD which will be in 2006-2007 time frame.

16ms may be to high for you, but its just fine in my perspective. We could get into a age long post about LCD refresh rates and blurring but im really not gonna start ANOTHER thread about that when the search engine will do its job dandy.

Hell, eople bitch that 8ms isn't fast enough on LCDs. "OMGS is so blurry, this LCD is da bomb shit of gaaazor!! LOL!!* Fine, stick with CRT then, I hate people that go into a "OMGzzzz LCD are the suuzckors fur FPS! ROFL noobish shit!!! CRT 4evur!!!!" mode, give me a break. If your that picky, stick with CRT until humanity dies out, I don't care, I like LCD better for MY reasons, despite its drawbacks

Like anything in life, theres always a plus and a minus.

You have been given our thoughts return the monitor or buy a better video card.
Just stop trashing the Dell 2405fpw for something thats your fault running a huge a$$ LCD monitor on a 9800pro which can even tax a geforce 7800 makes no sense.

Also stop running it in 5/4 res. If your ATI card is like the Geforce cards you can make
some custom 16/10 res that can help with the frame rates and scale very nicely in most games.

Go4hunter said:

You have been given our thoughts return the monitor or buy a better video card.
Just stop trashing the Dell 2405fpw for something thats your fault running a huge a$$ LCD monitor on a 9800pro which can even tax a geforce 7800 makes no sense.

Also stop running it in 5/4 res. If your ATI card is like the Geforce cards you can make
some custom 16/10 res that can help with the frame rates and scale very nicely in most games.

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You totally missed the point.
I am not trashing the monitor. Im trying to figure out if this is normal. If you had read my posts I am running these games at a LOW RESOLUTION, it shoulnd matter if I run the game in a freaken 90" LCD.. if the resolution is low it shouldnt tax the vid card..

For arguments sake, you could run it with a 4400ti, and have a res of 800X600.. if the image is skippping, it shows thats it is the display and not the system.

I guess what it is showing is that the DELL has problems playing fast FPS shooter games in its NON native res.

and Im not making this a OMG 2405 SUCKZ... please.. I have been very direct, and have tried to point out what Im looking and feeling. Its OK people can have different points of views on things that you own.

I now played FarCry with my old CRT settings.. and it does feel sorta strange, like sluggish, skipping frames.. I guess it doesnt make sense. Im going to have to return this. To bad, I really really like this LCD.. 2D environment is insane.

OK just started using my system in my sig. below. NEw x2 3800 with geforce 7800 GT. I bought the 24" for my father and decided to just use it for a while to test it out.

OK, I use my 22" Crt for gaming before.. and intend to still use it for gaming.

THe 24" LCD is nice.. but it is definitely not as smooth and quick as my CRT. IT lags no doubt. IN games.. its cool to play at 1900x1200 16:10 widescreen.. But it is sluggist in Half life 2 and in C&C renegade.
Even in windows Desktop I can feel it lag behind my CRT.


THe 24" is sharp though.. and huge.. when I switched back to my 22" CRT. it felt so cramped compared to the 24".

THe thing is LCD technology is limited.. I remember using the early LCD's and they were unplayable in FPS games like quake. The monitors are a lot better but not perfect.

The other drawback is the 60FPS limitation now in games using the LCD.. MY CRT I keep at 100FPS!

So if you use FPS games like quake & halflife.. then keep the CRT until the SED technology.

I now played FarCry with my old CRT settings.. and it does feel sorta strange, like sluggish, skipping frames.. I guess it doesnt make sense. Im going to have to return this. To bad, I really really like this LCD.. 2D environment is insane.

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See this is what I dont understand I just got Farcry a couple weeks ago and have been playing the heck out of it at 1440x900. I have no lag, no screen tearing, no bluring nothing. I have lowerd my particle count to low and all my settings are high expct for shadows which is meduim. Inside im getting 200fps plus outside about 90fps.

So this thing about LCD's tearing or bluring or ghosting has not happened on my Dell
2405fpw yet. I play Madden 2005, WoW, NHL 06, FIFA 05, all the sports games pan back and forth like crazy. I play FS9 IL2FB, Falcon AF, Lockon nothing blurs nothing tears nothing ghost and I only have a geforce 6800 ultra. So inless you have a bad video card or your cable connection is bad what else can we do for you?

I would say if your DVI cable was like the one Dell sent out in my box get another one that thing is usless about half the size the thickness they ship with the Dell 2005FPW.

Plus do not use the Dell icc file make your own or use powerstrip to get your colors right.

Go4hunter said:

So inless you have a bad video card or your cable connection is bad what else can we do for you?

I would say if your DVI cable was like the one Dell sent out in my box get another one that thing is usless about half the size the thickness they ship with the Dell 2005FPW.

Plus do not use the Dell icc file make your own or use powerstrip to get your colors right.

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See, these are the types of comments I am looking for!
Well, I called DELL and they are going to pick up the monitor on Friday. So tomorrow, I am going to a computer store and purchacing the best DVI cable I can find. Also, you mentioned powerstrip? Im going to look into it. The colors are not the issue, my issue is the missing frames/ studdering. Besides that the monitor is perfect.

If the DVI cable fixes this, I'm going to call them ASAP and tell them not to pick it up.

i think the black level and the response time are getting to you subconsciously.

Blacks are still a little shimmery and the response time is still slow.

troostj said:

See, these are the types of comments I am looking for!
Well, I called DELL and they are going to pick up the monitor on Friday. So tomorrow, I am going to a computer store and purchacing the best DVI cable I can find. Also, you mentioned powerstrip? Im going to look into it. The colors are not the issue, my issue is the missing frames/ studdering. Besides that the monitor is perfect.

If the DVI cable fixes this, I'm going to call them ASAP and tell them not to pick it up.

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Uhhh your 2405 should have shipped with a DVI cable, I use it and Im not having these "issues" your having. I highly doubt replacing the DVI cable is gonna do you any good.

well, i don't mean to fuel any fires, but I'm currently having the same problems.

Playing games such as unreal tournament, moving my mouse left to right almost makes me sick. Everything blurrs, It's barely possible to make out any textures. I tried vsync, but i get that awesome, awesome mouse lag with it, making it unplayable, and only fixing the tearing (not the blur)

I'm trying to see if, all the years of CRT use has made me an anal bastard, so I'm gona stick with it for another week, but I do still wonder if I have a defective screen.

tech shit -> running 7800GT, 3.2 @ 4ghz, 1 gig ram, running games at native resolution.

Guys download this app so we can see what revision your monitor is.Monitor Asset Manager 1.26

i honestly, love my 2005fpw and i dont think i can ever go back to crt's because of the space to room ratio. It fits the bill perfectly for me a little hindrance in fps performance is a minor setback, but remember its equivelant trade, you gains somethings you lose somethings

Monitor
Windows description......... Dell 2405FPW (Digital)
Manufacturer description.... DELL 2405FPW
Manufacturer................ Dell
————————————————————————————
Plug and Play ID............ DELA010
Serial number............... T6133596098S
EDID data source............ I2C bus (real-time)
————————————————————————————
Manufacture date............ 2005, ISO week 37
EDID revision............... 1.3
Display type and signal..... Digital
Sync input support.......... n/a
Screen size................. 520 x 330 mm (~26")
Power management............ Standby, Suspend, Active off/sleep