Unable to install FC4 or Mandrake 2005LE

Nazo

Nazo

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 2, 2002
Messages
3,672
I have both the 2005 Limited Edition of Mandrake and Fedora Core 4 (AMD64 version.) Whenever I try to install either one, the installer gets stuck. I don't mean my system locks up, I mean that the installer just quite simply gets stuck. In FC4's case, I can still move the mouse and the cursor moves, but, it sticks right after X loads, just after loading a few things off the CD. The screen stays white. The cursor shows up, so I can see that my system isn't frozen, just the installer is. In Mandrake, it's even stranger. It just randomly locks up at different points in the installation process. Usually I can't get as far as installing anything (typically sticks right after the custom disk partitioning) but, just a bit ago it got maybe 1% of the way through before freezing. I can use the CTRL+ALT+Fx keys to get to the other consoles, even one which has a shell that allows me to run several commands, but, the installer never moves in the X server. Thing is, I even tried the text mode installer with the exact same results. I can only conclude it's somehow the installer itself getting stuck. The disc seems to be fully readable, so I don't think it gets bad data that somehow makes it stick, and I've prime95/memtested the heck out of my memory at these settings to the point that I find it inconceivable that linux could trigger a problem that neither of them would show. My CPU only gets stable when some moronic software defaults to a kernel with CPU scaling on (since the lovely people behind it decided to immediately use PowerNow on every startup, so if you have an overclocked processor, chances are your system won't make it to the console.) Just in case, I had it set to the default FSB, multiplier, and even voltage even though I'm pretty sure that neither installer is guilty of this particular fault, and, since the FSB was lower, I had to set the memory to stock speed at least, which I KNOW is stable even with a little clock skew or something in there (has to go past 210MHz to get unstable.) I currently have no reason to believe hardware stability is a factor here.

Here's the strange thing though. I had just recently broken down and installed FC4 (or maybe it was Mandrake, I forget) on my system before all this started. I tried making a custom kernel that didn't work, and when I rebooted the filesystem was damaged beyond normal repair. It was then that this problem started. Thing is, I've tried completely wiping that partition. I've reformatted more times than I can count, and even just got so sick of it, I deleted the partition, deleted the swap partition, and switched them. At this point, I'm not even using the same filesystem on that partition... No other partitions were supposed to be mounted (eg noauto in fstab) so I really just don't know what to even think anymore. As nearly as I can tell, this pretty well eliminates harddrive related things.

I'm completely out of ideas as to what could cause this. I can't see anything obvious in Mandrake's console, and FC4 won't let me do anything to diagnose problems -- not that I'd know what to look for anyway. And, it may or may not be related, but, I have similar problems in Kubuntu. It loads X, starts loading a few things off the CD, then, just stops. Mouse can move and everything, but, the thing is stuck. Honestly, it looks like hardware troubles, but, that theory works a little better when the hardware isn't Prime95/Memtest stable (and trust me, I wouldn't have it any other way. Heck, I can set high rates like 2.7GHz or maybe even more and windows will still boot up and run without obvious errors, but, I use 2.52 because it won't be prime95 stable at a notably higher speed.) So, if it's not hardware, what COULD it be?

EDIT: Oh yeah, and I ran at least one bad block test during all the formatting. The harddrive has no known damaged sectors.
 
Come on, it's been over 24 hours, and no one has even so much as commented...
 
Run the "test media" thing on Fedora. It sounds like it could be a bad cdrom device - you can try a netinst with Debian, or figure out NFS and do it with Fedora. Can you boot a Knoppix livecd and install that?

 
Sorry, it's been a pretty busy day, so I didn't have time to run the test until a bit ago. Yes, the media checks out ok. I knew it would though, I downloaded from an official server and have never had any damaged downloads on this connection so far and my burner has no troubles whatsoever (Lite-On may not be the best at DVDs, but, they are at least among the best at CDs.)

I'll give Knoppix a shot in a bit (I have to finish the download and a few other things first.) Really, I was just going to play around with Kubuntu because I'm having to look at live distros to replace my system rescue cd (and I doubt that will be it, but, I need to look through serveral.) I still need to be able to install Fedora Core or Mandriva for my desktop distro.
 
Nazo said:
I have both the 2005 Limited Edition of Mandrake and Fedora Core 4 (AMD64 version.) Whenever I try to install either one, the installer gets stuck. I don't mean my system locks up, I mean that the installer just quite simply gets stuck. In FC4's case, I can still move the mouse and the cursor moves, but, it sticks right after X loads, just after loading a few things off the CD. The screen stays white. The cursor shows up, so I can see that my system isn't frozen, just the installer is. In Mandrake, it's even stranger. It just randomly locks up at different points in the installation process. Usually I can't get as far as installing anything (typically sticks right after the custom disk partitioning) but, just a bit ago it got maybe 1% of the way through before freezing. I can use the CTRL+ALT+Fx keys to get to the other consoles, even one which has a shell that allows me to run several commands, but, the installer never moves in the X server. Thing is, I even tried the text mode installer with the exact same results. I can only conclude it's somehow the installer itself getting stuck. The disc seems to be fully readable, so I don't think it gets bad data that somehow makes it stick, and I've prime95/memtested the heck out of my memory at these settings to the point that I find it inconceivable that linux could trigger a problem that neither of them would show. My CPU only gets stable when some moronic software defaults to a kernel with CPU scaling on (since the lovely people behind it decided to immediately use PowerNow on every startup, so if you have an overclocked processor, chances are your system won't make it to the console.) Just in case, I had it set to the default FSB, multiplier, and even voltage even though I'm pretty sure that neither installer is guilty of this particular fault, and, since the FSB was lower, I had to set the memory to stock speed at least, which I KNOW is stable even with a little clock skew or something in there (has to go past 210MHz to get unstable.) I currently have no reason to believe hardware stability is a factor here.

Here's the strange thing though. I had just recently broken down and installed FC4 (or maybe it was Mandrake, I forget) on my system before all this started. I tried making a custom kernel that didn't work, and when I rebooted the filesystem was damaged beyond normal repair. It was then that this problem started. Thing is, I've tried completely wiping that partition. I've reformatted more times than I can count, and even just got so sick of it, I deleted the partition, deleted the swap partition, and switched them. At this point, I'm not even using the same filesystem on that partition... No other partitions were supposed to be mounted (eg noauto in fstab) so I really just don't know what to even think anymore. As nearly as I can tell, this pretty well eliminates harddrive related things.

I'm completely out of ideas as to what could cause this. I can't see anything obvious in Mandrake's console, and FC4 won't let me do anything to diagnose problems -- not that I'd know what to look for anyway. And, it may or may not be related, but, I have similar problems in Kubuntu. It loads X, starts loading a few things off the CD, then, just stops. Mouse can move and everything, but, the thing is stuck. Honestly, it looks like hardware troubles, but, that theory works a little better when the hardware isn't Prime95/Memtest stable (and trust me, I wouldn't have it any other way. Heck, I can set high rates like 2.7GHz or maybe even more and windows will still boot up and run without obvious errors, but, I use 2.52 because it won't be prime95 stable at a notably higher speed.) So, if it's not hardware, what COULD it be?

EDIT: Oh yeah, and I ran at least one bad block test during all the formatting. The harddrive has no known damaged sectors.
Click to expand...

At exactly what part of the text mode install is it sticking? Here is what I would suggest:

1) Set everything to stock (cpu/ram timings etc)
2) Do you have the latest bios for your motherboard? Does google shown any known problems with your pc/motherboard when using it with the OS's you want? What chipset is your motherboard?
3) Is your videocard ATI ? Nvidia?
4) When you wiped the partitions did you do it from within the linux installer(s) or from within windows? I find most unix's have better partioninig utilities than windows.

Rob
 
In text mode it sticks at random intervals around when package installation starts. In essense, it sticks in the exact same way at the same place as the graphical installer.

1. I was FORCED to set my settings to stock. It won't let me overclock because FC4's stupid kernel has PowerNow built in and activated on every startup (eg, it changes my multiplier and voltage, making my CPU massively unstable if I don't boot it up at stock.) Stupid thing isn't optional, so, I'm stuck there. With Mandriva, I did try stock too, even though it's the 32-bit kernel (eg no PowerNow crap,) but, like I said earlier, I shouldn't have to because, it's 100% prime95/memtest stable.

2. Latest BIOS. You can feel free to check google yourself, but, so far the only problem with my motherboard I find is the already known 1T memory timing bug (and I'm running 2T timings because I experience this bug without that.) Chipset is the nForce 3 Ultra (I think this is essentially just the NF3 250 with a socket 939 instead of 754.) My hardware has not changed between installations, so I don't really think it's the culprit here.

3. The video card you see in my signature is a nVidia 6800nu AGP.

4. I used my linux rescue disc during most of the partitioning operations. I think once or twice I used Partition Magic's bootdisk (which runs in dos, but is really OS independant.)
 
I have both Mandrake and FC4 myself (although they are not the 64bit - they install the same way...)
Locking during install typically is a Bios setting issue with the PCI bus options, memory hole option (you want no memory hole), or HDD autodetect - I had a HDD that would not load Linux under the autodetect, I had to put the info in manually it then loaded without a hitch...

What else? oh, check the confiquation of the I/O ports - don't remember but something with FC4 - I know I had to change it from the default. Also, make sure you have NO conflicting hardware.. that would also hang the install...

Hope this helps.... good luck.
 
Well, theoretically memory hole should absolutely not cause a problem. However, it's only there for those with damaged spots on their memory, so, I have it disabled since I obviously don't need it. As for other BIOS related settings, well, you'll have to be more specific. Bear in mind that none of my settings have changed that I know of since the previously working install of FC4 though. As for HDD, I'm pretty sure I switched it to manual to save on bootup time (ok, it's not much, but, why not.)

As for I/O ports, well, the only configurations that are related to I/O in my bios would be maybe things like serial and printer ports. I disable those because I don't need them (and they were disabled for all previous installed of all versions of linux and windows for the past few years for me.) I have no reason to believe there is conflicting hardware -- especially since my system doesn't freeze, just the installer (remember, mouse moves, and in Mandriva I can switch consoles and run things in the shell.)


Knoppix is still estimating over 4 hours to download. I may not have time to test it tonight. Right now, out of sheer desperation just to have a working linux, I'm trying once again to get the hang of Gentoo. My first attempt a while back bummed out horribly (wouldn't even boot without some kind of conflict freezing it) but this time it's a different version of Gentoo on different hardware, and I'm desperate, so so far I'm actually doing a LITTLE bit better at least. Whether I get an actual working linux, and not just simply a crappy basic kernel that can't really do anything, I'm just not sure yet...
 
I ended up leaving the Knoppix download running over night since it was so darned slow. It finally finished and I just now tried it (in fact, I'm using it to post this.) Apparently this one will boot into X. Everything seems to work out alright on Knoppix. Too bad I really really dislike it (I don't know exactly why, I just do.) I so far haven't had much luck with Gentoo. My network settings just don't want to work right and I haven't figured out why yet (seems like it's ignoring my gateway setting I think.) Unless I get Gentoo working, I definitely want to stick to FC4 or Mandriva though. Gentoo, if I somehow get it working, will actually be better.
 
You can install Knoppix and use that to start building Gentoo. I did this with Fedora, it's nice to have a whole desktop and apps available to build your Gentoo on.

 
I've finally gotten it figured out. Stupid thing assigned the firewire to eth0 and the network to eth1 and I never knew it. I'm going to try installing Gentoo the normal way. I may end up screwing it up eventually, but, I'm definitely a lot further along than before.
 
I have to give up on Gentoo. It's just too much. It's tantamount to someone leading you into a garage with a pile of more parts than you need in one corner, and a pile with enough manuals to ensure that some forest somewhere just became a plain then saying "here you go, build your own car" then turning around and leaving you to figure it out on your own. If you know what you're doing, great, but, I don't.

I'm going to have to stick to Fedora and Mandriva it looks like.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top