I want to buy the 2405FPW, but have some doubts

Hello everyone.

Finally I've found a place to buy the 2405FPW (extremely high price, though) in my remote country, with full warranty and service.

I want this monitor so BADLY as its nearly flawless; The latest revisions have fixed every single issue, it's excellent for gaming, has superb colors, and can display everything currently related to HD.

The only thing that stops me by is the future: Because it costs so much I want it to be future-proof as future-proof can get (no more than 2-3 years is fine). I'm sick worried about the future/current requirements for a device to be called "HDTV" capable (although I WON'T use it as HDTV). That means HDMI, HDCP encrypted.

HDCP is currently what matters the most, because DVI to HDMI is a no-brainer. Full HDCP support is required Windows Vista HD contents, that's what I know right-now and that's what I'm worried about.

Further on, I have a couple of questions. I hope you can make me clarify a few things:
- Do I need HDCP/HDMI to enjoy HD-DVD (=XBOX360) and Blu-ray (=PS3) at their full glory? (I will play on them only through the computer!)
- Will there be a way to circuvment HDCP?
- What will happen If I'll use DVI->HDMI? Or it's good as a pure HDMI cable?
- What outputs will the X360 & PS3 support for HD?
- Bottom line: Do you think I should wait for Dell's next monitor or join the 2405fpw bandwagon now?

*** I will use the Dell only for PC & next-gen Console gaming, although I will view DVD's on it from time to time.

Thanks A LOT in advance.

Regards,
muaddib

well the 2405 has dvi and component input. i'm not too sure what the xbox360 and ps3 will require to do view future dvds. i think you should do this. wait for the 360 and/or ps3 to come out. see what you need in order to watch the future dvds and then buy a display. honestly it wont hurt to wait later and buy the monitor.

I wouldn't buy it in the first place. Mine's giving me subtle (but noticeable) input lag and I'm going to return it. P.O.S.

Fine display if you don't want to game on it, but if you're into high-speed shooters, get something else.

Buy it? Don't like it for whatever reason? 21 days for full refund from Dell, no questions asked.

And I honestly don't know what this "lag" is that everyone keeps bitching about, I play HL2 Deathmatch, BF2, BF1942, Jedi Knight 3, and I have no experience of this "lag"

Same, I dont notice any lag, (in bf2, ut2004, hlf2) well I feel some kinda lag in Warcraft 3 dunno if thats a related issue..


awesome monitor..

IceWind said:

Buy it? Don't like it for whatever reason? 21 days for full refund from Dell, no questions asked.

And I honestly don't know what this "lag" is that everyone keeps bitching about, I play HL2 Deathmatch, BF2, BF1942, Jedi Knight 3, and I have no experience of this "lag"

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Another "No lag here" person checking in. Never had a problem with it. Awesome monitor.
It is without a doubt the best thing I ever bought for my computer.

same here.. no lag.. i'm even using 9800pro w/ it while waiting for my evga 7800GTX to arrive..

this is also on some wacky resolution w/ black bar around it.. i think it was 1380x720 or something like that..

the only time i get lag when i go to certain place which i believe it's my 9800pro..

this on CS:S.

muaddib said:

Hello everyone.

Further on, I have a couple of questions. I hope you can make me clarify a few things:
- Do I need HDCP/HDMI to enjoy HD-DVD (=XBOX360) and Blu-ray (=PS3) at their full glory? (I will play on them only through the computer!)
- Will there be a way to circuvment HDCP?
- What will happen If I'll use DVI->HDMI? Or it's good as a pure HDMI cable?
- What outputs will the X360 & PS3 support for HD?
- Bottom line: Do you think I should wait for Dell's next monitor or join the 2405fpw bandwagon now?

*** I will use the Dell only for PC & next-gen Console gaming, although I will view DVD's on it from time to time.

Thanks A LOT in advance.

Regards,
muaddib

Click to expand...

X360 and PS3 will have component inputs - no way will they alienate ANY users out there with older TVs/Monitors

You might be fubar'ed if the video source requires HDCP.

PS3 has HDMI x2 std. AV x1 (component at the very least)
XBOX360 has Component and VGA (dunno about DVI or HDMI)

IMO - If you want the 2405, get it. Don't wait for HDCP compliance issues.

I just got my 2405FPW and overall i looooooooooove it so far.. i've only had it about 2 days but it is GREAT

yeah, I got mine monday and I love it also. Out of all the upgrades in all these years on any of my computer systems this one has been the most rewarding.

The only lag I have is in my brain the next day caused by playing on the damn thing into the wee hours of the morning. It is truly an incredible monitor.

The 2405 is pretty impressive. However:

If you have any doubts, are willing to wait, and aren't totally 100% pumped to pick it up right now, then don't do it. Waiting for Dell's next model or other options will always leave you with more choices later, and of course better prices.

As far as the short term on HDTV goes, if I were you I would just pick up an actual HDTV. Models which are much bigger, brighter, and more appropriately priced are available from just about every vendor there is out there.

The 2405 is certainly all that and a bag of chips now, but it'll soon have been around for a year and there will definately be some competitors on the market soon. Also, keep in mind that we're heading into fall now, and that means that holiday shopping deals are just around the corner ..

HDCP sounds like a good idea(to Hollywood only, ofcourse) but will eventually cost Hollywood business.

I Aint shellin out more dough so i can watch an hd-dvd or some shitty image that they claim is ultra resolution but is really a hd image with a sharpen/noise filter applied.

Seriously, if M$ wants to shove this bull down our throats they can shove Vista right up their arses.

Bah, I really don't know what to do.

But lets make it more simple - Will the lack of HDCP/HDMI in the 2405FPW cause me problems watching Bluray/HD-DVD, playing X360/PS3 and using Vista?

Thx in advance.

To answer your question:
-you will be able to play Xbox360 in HD on the 2405
-you will be able to play PS3 in HD on the 2405
-not sure about Windows Vista although I have no doubt the OS will run just fine on the 2405

My advice:
People will always say wait for this and wait for that because computers are always getting better. The fact is the Dell 2405fpw is an amazing monitor. Sure, there might be better models in the future with lower response times and such but as it stands, I think the image quality is amazing and I couldn't ask for anything better in a monitor. So I say get it. If you say it's difficult to get the Dell in your country it must be twice as difficult to get other models.

Adrian

OK, thank you...

But to clarify this to the end, i'll ask the final question:
Will i'll be able to play future HD PS3/X360 & PC games at their full glory, maximum IQ & performance without anything dropped away USING THE 2405FPW? I don't care about HD movies of any kind (That's why I'm not worried about Vista right now, and now with their exclusive HD-DVD support I'm more relieved).

But from the other side, it's costs me 500$ more than the US here in my country, and I want it to be futureproof as futureproof can get, FOR GAMING. And Dell exclusively support Bluray so they should come out with a HDCP monitor one day (If it's more than 3-5 months I can't wait any longer, this 5 years old CRT is killing me).

HDCP is only an issue if you are using a digital connection (DVI or HDMI). When you get your PS3, if you use the component cables (an analog signal), then HDCP won't even be activated when you are watching a Blu-Ray disc (PS3 won't be copatable with HD-DVD).

The entertainment industry made HDCP to keep people from copying the video over DVI or HDMI. The great thing is that there also aren't any DVI or HDMI recording devices! So they made a copy protection system for something that there aren't any devices made to copy from that signal in the first place! Great thinking Hollywood! Of course the development and implementation costs get passed on to the consumer too!

Ok, so. You will be able to play PS3 games even over DVI as long as they don't put HDCP on the games. If Sony were to require HDCP for playing games in HD then they are complete idiots. The problem could be if you have the PS3 connected to the monitor through DVI and pop in a Blu-Ray disc that requires HDCP. Then you will get no signal or downsampled video. The solution: You can plug in the component cables and HDCP is bypassed completely. Xbox360 uses standard DVD's which does not include HDCP so there is no way the Xbox360 can even touch HDCP even if they wanted.

As far as computers go... MS is saying that their whole video rendering stuff (possibly DirectX?) is going to be all isolated and safe from tampering to try and prevent people from bypassing security like HDCP. (***funny though how they just came out in support of HD-DVD because they claim it is easier to share ripped movies accross your home network??!?***) If you have your computer plugged into the DVI on the monitor, and play a HDCP protected HD-DVD, Blue-Ray disc, or an HDCP protected video file, then the output will be blocked or downsampled. If you are using VGA, no problems. There is already one or two devices for sale (like $200) that inadvertently remove the HDCP protection from DVI, but those could be black-listed and they would become useless. Another thought is will other media players such as Media Player Classic or VLC be able to ignore HDCP? And yet another is teh hax0rs.. I'm sure they can come up with some way to let Windows ignore HDCP.. but for how long?... Oh also, shortly after the new HD formats come out, there will probably be a way to rip the content (see: DeCSS) and strip out HDCP in order to watch the content on your computer without having HDCP.

So... Don't worry about this generation of consoles. It might ONLY be an issue if you plan on watching Blu-Ray movies on your PS3 and are using DVI. The other issue will be computers and Windows Vista... Can't say how this will turn out.. Have to wait and see. MS can't require HDCP just to output "HD" resolutions because computer can already do higher resolutions right now, but trying to watch HDCP protected Blu-Ray discs, HD-DVD's, or video files could be an issue if the drive, video card, OS, DVI or HDMI cable, and monitor aren't HDCP compliant (which of course, the 2405 is not). You also obviously would not be able to plug a stand-alone Blue-Ray or HD-DVD player into the 2405 through DVI and watch protected movies that way either.

IceWind said:

Buy it. Don't like it for whatever reason? 21 days for full refund from Dell, no questions asked.

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True, but they don't refund shipping and you have to pay to ship it back to them. If you got free shipping from Dell you only have to pay to ship it back. If you want to ship it back cheap then you're looking at 3-5 day delivery, and since Dell has to get it back BEFORE the 21 days are up you have to pack it off to them by day 16. Furthermore, the 21-day clock starts ticking when you're invoiced which is usually a few days before you get it.

Realistically you can expect to have it in your hands for about 2 weeks before you have to send it back, unless you don't mind spending more for faster shipping (or you live near Dell in Texas).

It is a good return policy, no doubt, all I'm saying is that 21 days turns out to be a LOT less than 21 days in practice. Been there, done that.

Lord Twilight, your comment is extremely helpful and informative. Thanks.

But I have some questions:

- Is it worth using component cables over HDMI? Isn't it much worse quality?

- You said: "Xbox360 uses standard DVD's which does not include HDCP so there is no way the Xbox360 can even touch HDCP even if they wanted". But afterwards you said: "but trying to watch HDCP protected Blu-Ray discs, HD-DVD's, or video files could be an issue if the drive, video card, OS, DVI or HDMI cable, and monitor aren't HDCP compliant". So, what's the bottom line? Is the X360 shielded from HDCP or not? I know I may encouter into problems with HDCP protected Blu-Ray discs (when watching @ DVI/HDMI), but what about X360 HD-DVD discs? I may just buy the X360 if it's shielded out of any protection.

- Still, if I won't use the 2405FPW the watch HD movies of any kind and in any way, untill we'll find out I cannot know if Sony/Microsoft will require from the game developers to add HDCP to their games. And then I will be completley lost... I won't be able to play console games. (I have already dumped the idea to watch HD movies on the PS3/X360/Vista using DVI/HDMI + 2450FPW...).

- Is it possible for PC games to become "HD"?

Thanks a lot in advance.
Regards,
muaddib

Besides, given the installed base of NON-HDCP stuff out there, I would think a HDCP-DVI blackbox would ultimately appear, to make the transition. Ultimately its all ONLY DATA, just ones and zero's and to get displayed on a screen to view the RAW actual data must come into being. Where ever that is, older displays will be able to display it.

This whole move to copy protection is a pointless exercise by mindless bean counters with no technical knowledge. At some point the data must be decoded for display, and anyone wanting to access it will hit it at that point. The only 100% secure copyprotection is one where NOONE can EVER actually WATCH the content

Instead of altering thier bsuiness models to profit from the new world of digital technology, they choose to make a stand and fight a battle that is un-winnable.... boy, sounds like Rumsfeld is incharge of Hollywood too

muaddib,
-Xbox 360 will only have analog outputs, so yes you can be worry free that all Xbox 360 content will play out just fine on your Dell 2405 now and in the future. You can connect it to your monitor using either component or VGA output.

-As I stated before, you will definitely always be able to play console games on your monitor in HD. There will definitely be an analog output on PS3 and you can use that to watch any content you wish on the monitor.

-PC games are HD. You have absolutely nothing to worry about there.

Buy the monitor. You won't have any problems.

Adrian

muaddib said:

Lord Twilight, your comment is extremely helpful and informative. Thanks.

But I have some questions:

- Is it worth using component cables over HDMI? Isn't it much worse quality?

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I personally can't say, I have never had the chance to see what difference in quality there is. Technically, component cables will provide a lower quality signal than DVI/HDMI. How much of a difference there is? I don't know. But if you want to watch a HDCP protected Blu-Ray disc on your PS3 through the 2405, that will be your only option.

- You said: "Xbox360 uses standard DVD's which does not include HDCP so there is no way the Xbox360 can even touch HDCP even if they wanted". But afterwards you said: "but trying to watch HDCP protected Blu-Ray discs, HD-DVD's, or video files could be an issue if the drive, video card, OS, DVI or HDMI cable, and monitor aren't HDCP compliant". So, what's the bottom line? Is the X360 shielded from HDCP or not? I know I may encouter into problems with HDCP protected Blu-Ray discs (when watching @ DVI/HDMI), but what about X360 HD-DVD discs? I may just buy the X360 if it's shielded out of any protection.

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by HD-DVD, I am talking about the standard known as HD-DVD, not general HD content on a DVD. It's a whole new format that is competing against Blu-Ray right now. The Xbox360 uses normal DVD's, so as far as I know, there is nothing like HDCP in Xbox360 (The PS3 uses Blu-Ray discs which do support HDCP). HDCP is not part of the DVD standard. There is no way that a console maker would limit the resolution of their games. They want them to look the best that they can. They want people to say "Wow! These Xbox360 games make PS2 games look like crap!" not limit or downsample the output. And like Asmielia said, there don't appear to be any DVI cables for XBox360.. Just analogue, so again, no worries.

- Still, if I won't use the 2405FPW the watch HD movies of any kind and in any way, untill we'll find out I cannot know if Sony/Microsoft will require from the game developers to add HDCP to their games. And then I will be completley lost... I won't be able to play console games. (I have already dumped the idea to watch HD movies on the PS3/X360/Vista using DVI/HDMI + 2450FPW...).

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MS isn't the one requiring HDCP. HDCP was made by Intel and some others for the "Entertainment Industry" (Hollywood). They included it in Windows Vista because the Entertainment Industry said "HDCP is the future. If you don't make Windows Vista compliant to it, no one will be able to watch our HD movies and our HD content on computers." and along with all kinds of rampant movie pirating going on, MS tried to make their "video rendering area" of Vista as secure as possible to make Hollywood happy (and do their part to discourage any piracy).

Which is interesting because the "video rendering area" inside Windows isn't used to pirate anything. We just rip the content off the disc. Which is what will happen with any new disc formats.. The content will be ripped and stripped of any copy protection, and Windows will play it just fine at whatever resolution it is, thinking its just some video file without any content protection. And MS knows this. I think everyone knows this except apparently the Entertainment Industry..

- Is it possible for PC games to become "HD"?

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Simple answer: No. You can already play PC games at "HD resolutions"

Sorry for the long answers.. When I found out about this whole HDCP thing (suprisingly I learned about it while researching the 2405) I got pissed because it's so useless and will only make trying to legally enjoy HD content more complicated and more of a pain in the ass than it should be. It's also the only thing that has stopped me from buying a 2405 yet too (there's also apparently some issue with the 2405 displaying normal video (640x480 and 720x480) correctly.

You guys are great. Thanks for the help.

Lord Twilight, your comments are just fine. Actually they're great. Tia.
And yet again, I have more (but more simpler) questions:

- Are you sure the X360 uses regular DVD-5/DVD-9?!
- Are you sure that no damn PS3-Bluray/PC-Vista game will ever contain any bit of this annoying HDCP?
- What's your condition with the 2405FPW? Do you think you'll eventually buy it, or wait?

Thanks in advance.

Lord Twilight, will you be kind and answer my critical questions? It would be great.

Is it me, or does it sound like this guy is asking the same questions over and over?

Well, that's true to some of the questions But I just want to be sure

muaddib said:

You guys are great. Thanks for the help.

Lord Twilight, your comments are just fine. Actually they're great. Tia.
And yet again, I have more (but more simpler) questions:

- Are you sure the X360 uses regular DVD-5/DVD-9?!
- Are you sure that no damn PS3-Bluray/PC-Vista game will ever contain any bit of this annoying HDCP?
- What's your condition with the 2405FPW? Do you think you'll eventually buy it, or wait?

Thanks in advance.

Click to expand...

- From everything that I have personally found, it is a standard DVD drive, no proprietary format or anything.

"...developers will also be running into issues of storage space in the next generation. While the Xbox 360 is a next-generation console, Microsoft decided to equip it with a normal DVD reader rather than give it HD-DVD or Blu-ray reading capabilities."

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source

Although I don't work for MS, so I could be wrong. There are rumors that Bill Gates said something along the lines that future versions of the XBox360 may use a different format like HD-DVD. Whether there may be an upgrade for XBox360 to HD-DVD, or he was talking about future generations of the console...?

- I cannot be sure that the PS3/Vista will never use something like HDCP for games. I cannot think of any reason that they would try and do such a thing, although I suppose the same thing could be said about HDCP in the first place.

Personally, I'm still on the fence about the 2405. Samsung has the 242mp which uses the same LCD panel and has a TV tuner and HDCP but it's like $1500. I don't necessarily need a new monitor right now, but I would REALLY like the 2405. I guess I'm waiting until the holidays to see if a really good Dell Coupon comes out, then I might buy a 2405. Also, you have to license HDCP, so to use HDCP protection, or to make devices that are HDCP capable, you have to pay $$$. Otherwise I think I am waiting to see if a comparable monitor comes out with HDCP just to avoid headaches down the line. But really, I know we'll be able to rip any protected content... So does it really matter?

I guess you have to decide if you need the monitor now with the knowledge that there may be a few inconveniences down the road. Dell always has coupons and the XBox360 is still a month and a half away..

Thanks

Unlike you, I'm pretty much need a new monitor now. I'm sitting on a 5-years-old beige, 17" LG CRT which kills me.

Ofcourse, I could wait longer... But there always be something new and some new protection around the corner, and I don't know when Dell will offer PC-LCD w/ HDCP, I won't wait if it's more than 3 months...

I guess I will buy it when a really good coupon comes out. Keep me updated.

lol what a dilemma for you. dont look at the 2405fpw as the end all answer to monitors. eventually everyone will upgrade to like a 30in and u'll b stuck w/ ur 24in and feel left out. then u'll want a 30in. which means, it doesn't matter if the monitor supports hdcp or not. cause eventually, you'll get the itch to upgrade anyways. and most likely by the time you want change to a better display it WILL support hdcp by then. if you plan on getting the 2405fpw and keeping it for awhile. then i suggest this: save your $800 for a bigger tv with hdmi/vga/dvi inputs . like a dlp or lcd plasma etc. get one that will support hdcp instead of being stuck on whether you should get the 2405fpw or not.

HDTV is out of question (mainly because of space and budget).
It's all narrowed down to buying the 2405FPW, or wait.