AMD vs INTEL

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84gthatch

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AMD has launched an antitrust suit against INTEL on June 28. It seems that Intel has been forcing companies like Dell, Compaq, Gateway from using AMD Processors in their systems. It also states that Intel unfairly blocks compaines like CompUSA, Staples, BestBuy from having orther computer models to sell with AMD Processors in them.
Japan has also launched the same type of lawsuit in their own country, siting the same type of problems with Intel.
Be prepared for a possible price war coming out of this.

if there is a price war then parts will hopefully start coming way back down;) then we can fold with uber A64 x48 chips :p just thought this was interesting
 
There was a post at techreport.com the other day about this (I didn't follow the link to read the whole suit), but I'm not so sure that a price war will come out of this. AMD's first goal is to try and get the OEM market opened up to them so they can sell more processors. Once they start selling more processors, might we see the supply for the end-users tightening up due to demand from OEMs and therefore see similar type of pricing? I don't know what will happen in the short term, but it could be a price war or business as usual. Either way, I think just about all of us would like to get dual core A64s in our folding boxen.
 
ok maybe it was just a really long day, but at work today i was browsing newegg for a bit and i saw the fx57 for $1300+. now i check and its just below $1200. maybe i just need more sleep, but that seems like a huge/early price drop .
its still an insanely expensive processor, especially for a single core chip. although i guess one must really pay a premium for such a nice cpu...

-chances are this has nothing to do with the amd-intel case. or maybe i should say the amd>intel case :p
 
Bodega said:
ok maybe it was just a really long day, but at work today i was browsing newegg for a bit and i saw the fx57 for $1300+. now i check and its just below $1200. maybe i just need more sleep, but that seems like a huge/early price drop .
its still an insanely expensive processor, especially for a single core chip. although i guess one must really pay a premium for such a nice cpu...

-chances are this has nothing to do with the amd-intel case. or maybe i should say the amd>intel case :p
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That is their flagship processor and it sports an unlocked multiplier at that. You can get a 4000+ for MUCH MUCH less.
 
Ever hear the saying "even bad publicity is good publicity"? Even if nothing comes out of the suit, at least AMD's name will be a little closer to a household name.

I read the entire suit paperwork, and have been reading articles about the suit since. Several big-name consulting think-tanks have pointed out AMD's suit is based on a lot of "he said she said". It's hearsay in court, unless the person who said it is in court to testify, or signs a sworn statement. AMD can sopenea witnesses, but it remains to be seen how many of the big names (that have been doing the complaining behind closed doors) will actually back their griping in court, knowing they will be jeopardizing the very cash-flow from Intel that AMD is complaining about.

That AMD won in Japan is a no-biggie. Intel did not contest the charges. Basically what Intel said was "so?". It's not the Japanese / European manufacturers going a higher percentage AMD that Intel is worried about, it's the big American OEMs (Dell, HP, IBM, etc.).

It was also pointed out that AMD has shot itself in the foot recently with their Opteron / X2 price scheme. One of AMDs biggest points in the suit is their price / performance ratio as compared to Intel, meaning there is no reason big OEMs can't make a good profit by switching to AMD. But as high a price point as AMD set for their high-end chips, that ratio got chopped considerably. They did the same thing American car manufacturers did when our government slapped heavy tarriffs on import cars so American car makers could "compete"...they raised the prices. You can bet Intel will point that out.

Suit isn't scheduled to even go to court until 2006, who knows what worm will turn before then. Hopefully it'll all boil down to lower chip costs from both camps. Time will tell.
 
Ah but this is a civil case HTPC.....much lower proof of burden.
 
84gthatch said:
AMD has launched an antitrust suit against INTEL on June 28. It seems that Intel has been forcing companies like Dell, Compaq, Gateway from using AMD Processors in their systems. It also states that Intel unfairly blocks compaines like CompUSA, Staples, BestBuy from having orther computer models to sell with AMD Processors in them.
Japan has also launched the same type of lawsuit in their own country, siting the same type of problems with Intel.
Be prepared for a possible price war coming out of this.

if there is a price war then parts will hopefully start coming way back down;) then we can fold with uber A64 x48 chips :p just thought this was interesting
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This is a bag of horeseshit. I work for one of the retailers and I can tell you we have MANY AMD models. MANY of them. A large portion of the mid range machines sold are all AMD.

Compaq is mostly the lower and midrange machines, and HP makes up the higher end retail machines and does all the companies Media Center PC's. All the Media Center PC's are Intels. But almost all the Presario line we carry is AMD.

Now, one area Intel really does stick it to AMD on the retail side is in notebooks.

AMD has deals for retail employees the same as Intel does. AMD reps come to the stores same as Intel reps. Plus, we sell alot of AMD processors. Far more than we do Intels. I'd hardly say that's any attempt to block retailers from carrying or selling AMD. In short thats rediculous.

Now, the suit suggests that Intel does special things to keep Dell from buying AMD.

How's this for a scenario: AMD goes to Dell and says "hey, start selling our processors, we have this and this for this price." Dell says " We'll get back to you.". Then Dell goes to Intel and says, AMD has offered us chips at these prices, what can you do to match or beat that? Intel beats the price, and volume easily.

What do you call that? Good business on Intels part. Sometimes having a superior product isn't what makes you successful. Intel conducts smart business. Plain and simple.

Even *IF* AMD could match Intel's volume and pricing. Why would Dell want to go to AMD? They'd have to buy the chips, and then find other vendors for chipsets. Plus go through additional validation and testing for those models. Plus with Dell's marketshare they really don't *need* AMD models in their lineup anyway.

With Intel they get motherboard designs, chipsets, networking equipment, better onboard audio solutions and all this comes at prices that allow Dell to have higher margins. What's so unethical about Intel doing that? Again this is good business.

I can tell you Intel's support if your a premeire provider of Intel CPU's is second to none. In many ways it simply makes sense to go Intel.

Now don't think that I am an Intel guy. I've owned alot of AMD processor based machines and CPU's lately. Plus for the gamer or even for servers, AMD simply has better products in my opinion. As a company Intel has a very good track record in all areas. Its one of the least shady of all the large corporations. At least no one has ever been able to prove otherwise.

Intel has enough market share, enough production capacity and high quality products. Theres no reason they'd have to resort to buying off manufacturers into not selling AMD.

AMD probably feels like the underdog. They can't match the giant chipzilla on his terms. Theres no way. AMD simply doesn't have the opportunity to sell enough product, and doesn't have the money to market themselves the way Intel does.

What AMD needs is backing from larger companies, more fabs, advertising, and maybe some of their own chipsets to go along with their processors. That way they could be made more enticing to companies like Dell and Gateway. That's my $.02.
 
Spectre said:
Ah but this is a civil case HTPC.....much lower proof of burden.
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Aye this is true...but we're talking unknown millions of dollars worth of "damages". Hopefully a judge would want more than just hearsay!
 
Sir-Fragalot said:
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That's just your experience. If what AMD claims is ture, and intel does threaten companies to only sell intel based products, then that's just wrong. Your company might not see the "other side of intel"... who knows.

What you said about dell not needing to go with intel, is one point I want to disagree with. I think to stay competitive especially in the gaming area, they will really want to sell AMD based processors (or at least this is how its been gearing up in the past year or so).

And let me be the fist to say, with all honestly, it does'nt matter how much Dell would have to reinvent the wheel. It does'nt matter if they need to make a new motherboard based on AMD's new socket design (not the current ones). Dell can afford to spend money on R&D making new AMD systems. And I recommend they do. This goes to all other OEM companies who sponser Intel soley. Who knows in the next year who will have the best technology, AMD or Intel, but I think to play it safe, these companies should sponser both brands at the minimum.

Also, sir fragalot, your 100% right. Intel makes an amazing processor, the Pentium M. at 27 watts max, for what it can do, its a very good processor.

And don't think for a second that AMD is not up to the task of ramping up production. If the demand exists, then they definently will. Its good economics. ^_^

I wish I owned AMD stock 2 years ago, and im glad i did'nt own intel stock 2 years ago ^_^.
 
towert7 said:
That's just your experience. If what AMD claims is ture, and intel does threaten companies to only sell intel based products, then that's just wrong. Your company might not see the "other side of intel"... who knows.

What you said about dell not needing to go with intel, is one point I want to disagree with. I think to stay competitive especially in the gaming area, they will really want to sell AMD based processors (or at least this is how its been gearing up in the past year or so).

And let me be the fist to say, with all honestly, it does'nt matter how much Dell would have to reinvent the wheel. It does'nt matter if they need to make a new motherboard based on AMD's new socket design (not the current ones). Dell can afford to spend money on R&D making new AMD systems. And I recommend they do. This goes to all other OEM companies who sponser Intel soley. Who knows in the next year who will have the best technology, AMD or Intel, but I think to play it safe, these companies should sponser both brands at the minimum.

Also, sir fragalot, your 100% right. Intel makes an amazing processor, the Pentium M. at 27 watts max, for what it can do, its a very good processor.

And don't think for a second that AMD is not up to the task of ramping up production. If the demand exists, then they definently will. Its good economics. ^_^

I wish I owned AMD stock 2 years ago, and im glad i did'nt own intel stock 2 years ago ^_^.
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I am not saying Intel isn't doing that. I am saying they don't need to do that. To this day several companies have accused Intel of alot of things. So far very few of those accusations have ever been proven in a court of law.

It is also true that they could have practices like that. However I've worked for several computer retailers and I've seen no evidence of those types of business practices. Both Comp USA and Best Buy carry a wide variety of AMD products and comptuers based on those products. So I am not seeing it. Not on that level.

With the OEMs who knows?
 
HTPC Rookie said:
Aye this is true...but we're talking unknown millions of dollars worth of "damages". Hopefully a judge would want more than just hearsay!
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Yeah but if they can provide any written statements or even one exec willing to go in while that wouldn't suffice in criminal court, in civil.....it might just be enough.
 
Spectre said:
Yeah but if they can provide any written statements or even one exec willing to go in while that wouldn't suffice in criminal court, in civil.....it might just be enough.
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I sure hope you're right.

Truthfully I'd rather not see Intel get stomped on with crap like "monetary damages". Rather just see them be told to stop with the strong-arm tactics, if it's proven true. Don't see any manufacturer lowering prices anytime soon after they got hit with a major fine. And of course if they don't lower prices, AMD won't lower prices, and we get nada out of it.
 
HTPC Rookie said:
I sure hope you're right.

Truthfully I'd rather not see Intel get stomped on with crap like "monetary damages". Rather just see them be told to stop with the strong-arm tactics, if it's proven true. Don't see any manufacturer lowering prices anytime soon after they got hit with a major fine. And of course if they don't lower prices, AMD won't lower prices, and we get nada out of it.
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I am not sure right off the top of my head but Ithink the only thing they can get hit with in civil court is monetary damages. However, those damages could be really high if depending on what metric is used by the court to determine damage done to AMD. Also, if AMD does prevail it may give the fed's or even states confidence enough to move ahead against Intel in criminal court.
 
holy cow i didn't think this would lead to this many deleted message lol
i just got the message in my e-mail from a friend of mine who is an oem dealer and i thought it was interesting.

hey if it helps reduce prices we win if it stays the same well then oh well.
 
Spectre said:
Well looks like they have gotten some new lawyers. They are really pressing this thing. Wonder if they are planning to fund a FAB out of the settlements?
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FAB?

Hopefully its not true, but if it is, hopefully prices do go down, and not up :)

It would be nice to get x2's for even close to what the intels sell for...
 
KodiakStar said:
FAB?
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Another fabrication plant for chips. Part of the reason that AMD doesn't always have as low of prices is that they don't produce nearly the volume of chips. If they were able to get another plant up and running and get more chips out there in the mainstream, the prices would drop some.


 
Oh ok, makes sense now. Wasnt there a news bit on the front page a while back that said they were opening a new one overseas?... maybe that is closer to completion..thus the lawsuit to try and open the market more since they have another plant opening up?
 
I believe they are planning on opening a new fab sometime next year. If they want to increase their market share they will need to since they don't currently have the production capacity to gain a whole lot of market share over what they currently have. To take on big OEM contracts they would need the extra capacity big time.

Also, please don't use FAB when speaking of the fabrication facility. Every time I see that I think of a division of where I work, the Field Audit Bureau. :(

 
SmokeRngs said:
I believe they are planning on opening a new fab sometime next year. If they want to increase their market share they will need to since they don't currently have the production capacity to gain a whole lot of market share over what they currently have. To take on big OEM contracts they would need the extra capacity big time.

Also, please don't use FAB when speaking of the fabrication facility. Every time I see that I think of a division of where I work, the Field Audit Bureau. :(

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Yes FAB36 (sorry that is it's name) will be up soon. It will more than double AMD's capacity. Thta plus their leased space at East Fishkill and I think Charter should boost possible out put even more..............if they produce in other fabrication plants. They worked really hard with IBM on FAB36 tech so I think it is targeted for optimization at 65nm. This is all IIRC.
 
In March, Japan's Fair Trade Commission (FTC) found that Intel had violated antitrust laws by offering rebates to five PC makers that agreed either not to buy or to limit their purchases of chips made by AMD or other rivals.

The five computer makers were Hitachi Ltd., Sony, NEC Corp., Fujitsu Ltd. and Toshiba Corp..
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Yea, that's when it goes overboard. That is wrong, and if Intel has done more accounts of these type of things, such as with dell, then shame on intel.
 
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