ATI Temporal AA or Nvidia regular AA? Stick w/9800Pro vs 6600GT

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Spare-Flair

Supreme [H]ardness
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So I find I'm really loving the temporal antialiasing feature in the Catalyst drivers. It makes all my games look really amazing at half the hit of what it would take for regular AA to have nearly the same effect.

I'm currently debating whether to sell my 9800Pro and buy a 6600GT as it would be a easy and cheap upgrade with the money I'd get back for the still popular and powerful 9800. I'm basically trying to stretch my system as long as I can. I'm not financially able to move onto A64 (which would require a new mobo and CPU) so I'm trying to stretch my overclocked Nforce2 system as much as possible on a budget. Therefore I need an AGP card.

Right now I love running 2xT2 AA, 16x ansio, on 1024x768 which is the equivalent of basically 4x AA at the cost of 2x AA. This gives me 50-75 FPS in CS:Source which is what I primarily play at the moment. Would switching to a 6600GT and having to run a real 4x AA still give me signifigant enough gains to merit the $75 I'd have to spend between selling the 9800 and getting the 6600? Any valid reasons why I should stay where I am? Or perhaps wait a little longer?

I did consider the 6800GT but I might cost to much and it'd require a lot of physical work on my system to actually get the card to fit (I've modded the board with heatsinks and I'm concluded that a 6800GT won't fit unless I take some hacksaws to my epoxied sinks).

What are your suggestions or am I totally misguided and misdirected in my train of thought? Does Nvidia still have that vibrant desktop feature?
 
Me my Self, i wouldnt bother upgrading from a 9800Pro to 6600GT there just isnt enough of a boost in realworld performance.But if you can find the 6800nu for around $250 that would be a nice little jump. ;)
 
glynn said:
Me my Self, i wouldnt bother upgrading from a 9800Pro to 6600GT there just isnt enough of a boost in realworld performance.But if you can find the 6800nu for around $250 that would be a nice little jump. ;)
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You're kidding, right? The 6600GT outperforms the 9800Pro by a wide margin in almost every review I've seen. Here is one example from Anand.
 
ThomasE66 said:
You're kidding, right? The 6600GT outperforms the 9800Pro by a wide margin in almost every review I've seen. Here is one example from Anand.
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Yes, the 6600 GT performs better on paper. Nobody disputes that, at least nobody with a brain. If you are choosing between the two, the 6600 GT is better. But going from a 9800 Pro to a 6600 GT will not give you a radically better experience actually playing games (as opposed to jerking off with benchmarks). The performance advantage just isn't big enough.
 
CastleBravo said:
Yes, the 6600 GT performs better on paper. Nobody disputes that, at least nobody with a brain. If you are choosing between the two, the 6600 GT is better. But going from a 9800 Pro to a 6600 GT will not give you a radically better experience actually playing games (as opposed to jerking off with benchmarks). The performance advantage just isn't big enough.
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That is untrue as well. At resolutions of 1280+ and when using AA at that res and lower the difference gets bigger and bigger. However, the OP runs at 1024, so the difference two is more than readily apparant. We're not just talking about a couple of FPS here.

And yes, I've actually used both in real world situations.
 
The 6600GT is a much better card than the 9800Pro. However if you are happy with the way games are playing now, I see no reason to upgrade. The longer you can wait to upgrade the better. Either you will be able to get a 6600GT cheaper in a few months or you can move to something even better.

*Of course if you have the itch to upgrade, not much will hold you back. Ignoring performance you would also get the benefit of HDTV output, Enhanced video processing and support for SM 3.0 by moving to a 6600GT.
 
I just switched my work rig from a 9800Pro to a 6600GT...games run MUCH smoother. It wsa a nice upgrade, and the 6600GT was only $200.
 
So the verdict is 6800nu over 6600GT and 6800GT?
Here in Canada, I haven't even found the 6600GT to be much in stock much less finding an nu. I have to hunt ebay.
Does any company make this with a red PCB?
 
Whether the switch is worth or not depends on how much out of pocket you would have to pay. Ebay the 9800pro. Specifically note something like, "this thing is a beast. I've gotten it overclocked all the way up to ....... yada yada." I''ll bet you some tool bids it up to a point where you'll actually make money off the switch (i've seen it happen before."
 
Spare-Flair said:
So the verdict is 6800nu over 6600GT and 6800GT?
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god no. 6800gt > 6800nu > 6600gt.

best bang for the buck is 6800nu.
6600gt is best if you're on a budget.
6800gt is the best performer, but pricey.
 
CastleBravo said:
Yes, the 6600 GT performs better on paper. Nobody disputes that, at least nobody with a brain. If you are choosing between the two, the 6600 GT is better. But going from a 9800 Pro to a 6600 GT will not give you a radically better experience actually playing games (as opposed to jerking off with benchmarks). The performance advantage just isn't big enough.
Click to expand...

They may have meant that the framerate is more consistent/smoother. On a normal level, the FPS difference isn't significant, but when the action intensifies (explosions, effects, etc.), the difference gets amplified. Some people are willing to pay the extra buck to get smoother frames at those instances so you wouldn't freeze when a grenade blows in your face.

It depends on how hardcore you are :p
 
pigpen said:
Whether the switch is worth or not depends on how much out of pocket you would have to pay. Ebay the 9800pro. Specifically note something like, "this thing is a beast. I've gotten it overclocked all the way up to ....... yada yada." I''ll bet you some tool bids it up to a point where you'll actually make money off the switch (i've seen it happen before."
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rofl.. too true. Too true. That's a pretty good idea though :).
 
If you mainly play CS:Source then I dont think it will really mean much to upgrade to a 6600GT or even a 6800NU. Just installing the 5.1 or 4.12 based omega driver sets, if you already haven't, will give you much greater performance in a lot of games and the they are free.

Edit: and dont listen to certain posters and try to rip people off on ebay. I always hate seeing people there bidding on products that cost even less retail. I wish they would implement a comment system :/.
 
Sly said:
They may have meant that the framerate is more consistent/smoother. On a normal level, the FPS difference isn't significant, but when the action intensifies (explosions, effects, etc.), the difference gets amplified. Some people are willing to pay the extra buck to get smoother frames at those instances so you wouldn't freeze when a grenade blows in your face.

It depends on how hardcore you are :p
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I've got a 6800 GT. Going from a 9800 Pro to a 6800 GT was a worthwhile upgrade, but not some huge radical orgasmic improvement in the actual experience of playing games. And of course a 6800 GT rapes a 6600 GT in performance across the board. So I don't see how going from a 9800 Pro to a 6600 GT is really worth the trouble. Going from an old high-end card to a current middle-of-the-road card seems a little silly. I mean, in some games the 6600 GT has an <10% advantage over the 9800 Pro. Big whoop!

For a new $200 card, I'd recommend a 6600 GT in a heartbeat. But if you've already got a 9800 Pro, the 6600 GT is kind of a piss-ant upgrade.
 
There's also the factor of me being totally stupid and using arctic epoxy to glue on a PIII heatsink onto my mouthbridge, which obstructs the AGP and lower PCI slots so that the longer and thicker 6800nu and 6800GTs won't fit! It's hilarious and embarassing to realize that I was going for a 6600GT just because the strange heatsink design would be the only card that fits in my system :)

sink.jpg


I read a news item that claimed MSI was using 6800nus as 6800GTs, so I'm a little wary of that, plus MSI's 6800nus are green if I'm not mistaken. It's also very silly to be concerned with cosmetics and a red system, but I am, therefore I'm looking for a red PCB. So far, only MSI and Gainward seem to be options.

Looking at past ebay auctions, I'm seeing $175 may be all I can make off a 9800Pro. Seeing that a 6800GT costs $350 on average, 50% of cost can be a good thing but my budget is indeed tight. If I can manage to get a 6600GT for $200, a $25 investment for maybe 10-20% boost in frames doesn't sound so bad afterall.
 
stick with the 9800pro...6600gt isnt much faster anyways..if ya want to upgrade... 6800gt andup at least
 
I'd stick with the 9800 pro, and get an X800 pro when it gets cheap
I've got a 6600GT, and I play a few games that nvidia cards have trouble anti aliasing properly, and/or filterting, and seeing shots of X800 cards(same FSAA anyway) they look alot better.
It's in the distance where jaggies are, but up close it's fine.
Turning on or off AF doesn't do anything for it btw.
They're racing sim games btw, with those, it's alot more important to have good FSAA and AF, where as a fps like far cry looks fine with 8AF and 4X fsaa, even 8Xs cant clear up the jaggies.
here's an example.
my.php

The gaurd rail is horridly aliased.
You can see how the tops it's getting a little AA, but that's either 4X aa or 8XS, I forget which.
 
Moloch said:
I'd stick with the 9800 pro, and get an X800 pro when it gets cheap
I've got a 6600GT, and I play a few games that nvidia cards have trouble anti aliasing properly, and/or filterting, and seeing shots of X800 cards(same FSAA anyway) they look alot better.
It's in the distance where jaggies are, but up close it's fine.
Turning on or off AF doesn't do anything for it btw.
They're racing sim games btw, with those, it's alot more important to have good FSAA and AF, where as a fps like far cry looks fine with 8AF and 4X fsaa, even 8Xs cant clear up the jaggies.
here's an example.
my.php

The gaurd rail is horridly aliased.
You can see how the tops it's getting a little AA, but that's either 4X aa or 8XS, I forget which.
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Yeah, I do play a lot of racing sims since I just bought a wheel. Thanks for the advice. Oh also, I can't seem to find any 6800nus that are AGP. Are there AGP nu's out there?
 
Spare-Flair said:

I read a news item that claimed MSI was using 6800nus as 6800GTs, so I'm a little wary of that, plus MSI's 6800nus are green if I'm not mistaken. It's also very silly to be concerned with cosmetics and a red system, but I am, therefore I'm looking for a red PCB. So far, only MSI and Gainward seem to be options.
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Umm....link to this, anyone?

I have an MSI GT on the way from Newegg that has the TD256 designation that the MSI website shows as being a green card-- but the Newegg listing shows the card I ordered as red:

Though I should also mention that on the MSI site their Ultra is also colored green:

MSI website model NX6800GT-TD256 green

MSI website model NX6800 Ultra-T2D256green

MSI website model NX6800GT-T2D256E PCI-E dual-DVI red


Please tell me this is a BS report so that I don't get paranoid about my nice new card...k? thx!!11!!1
 
mdlestat said:
Umm....link to this, anyone?

Please tell me this is a BS report so that I don't get paranoid about my nice new card...k? thx!!11!!1
Click to expand...

I don't know what to say on the matter, check it out:

MSI selling 6800NU as 6800GT
MSI sold lower grade NX6800GT-T2D256E (PCI-E) to customers. The affected cards have only 12 Pipelines and 5 Vertex Units
msi6800graph.gif


Another reason however, why I want to sell the 9800 and get a new card is I want to capitalize on the market value of the 9800 while it is still respectable so I can get a decent enough return to offset a card as opposed to in a year or so when it's marginally valued.
 
Then sell the 9800 and get a 6800GT when the price drops, which will be very soon. I got a 6800nu AGP when it first came out and I don't regret spending 300 USD on it one bit. Its a great card and handles every game including UT2004 max everything and Doom 3 on Ultra at 1600x1200 2xAF 2xAA.
 
First, there were only 350 cards issued with the flaw acording to MSI--

and they all look to be in Europe

AND they are PCI-Express--


I'm no longer worried, and thank you VERY much for the link!!

<whew!!>
 
Spare-Flair said:
Yeah, I do play a lot of racing sims since I just bought a wheel. Thanks for the advice. Oh also, I can't seem to find any 6800nus that are AGP. Are there AGP nu's out there?
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There's 6800s all over the place.
You aren't actually looking for NU's are you, cuz NU is just a nick name for it, for some reason.
I'd opt for an X800 pro if you can reach that far.
I know the 6800GT is faster, but the quality isn't the same, and that's from someone with a 6600GT.
 
You're kidding, right? The 6600GT outperforms the 9800Pro by a wide margin in almost every review I've seen. Here is
Click to expand...

No im Not kidding ? To me 6800NU would be the minimum tradeup from a 9800Pro? As i will state again there is not Enough REAL WORLD gaming diffrence between a 9800 and a 6600GT to warrant the upgrade (IN MY OPINION).=yours may vary lol.
 
glynn said:
No im Not kidding ? To me 6800NU would be the minimum tradeup from a 9800Pro? As i will state again there is not Enough REAL WORLD gaming diffrence between a 9800 and a 6600GT to warrant the upgrade (IN MY OPNION).
Click to expand...
9800 pro doesn't do bad in CS:S
http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q4/geforce-6600gtagp/index.x?pg=7
or far cry
http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q4/geforce-6600gtagp/index.x?pg=9
or even 3dmark 05.
Its really only doom 3 that it gets owned,
But as you can see, the 6800 is really what you need to get a good performance boost.
So I agree with above poster, but with evidence:D
 
Spare-Flair said:
So I find I'm really loving the temporal antialiasing feature in the Catalyst drivers. It makes all my games look really amazing at half the hit of what it would take for regular AA to have nearly the same effect.
...
Right now I love running 2xT2 AA, 16x ansio, on 1024x768 which is the equivalent of basically 4x AA at the cost of 2x AA. This gives me 50-75 FPS in CS:Source which is what I primarily play at the moment.
Click to expand...

Temporal antialiasing requires VSYNC ON all time and depends heavy on FPS.
Basically you must have more then 70FPS all time. Of course it depends on your eyes and how you see "move" ;-)
By turning on temporal antialiasing you lost some details of image
I too play CS a lot, but I like big resolutions, antialiasing make me nervous, especially when blurs some texts
 
gordon151 said:
Edit: and dont listen to certain posters and try to rip people off on ebay. I always hate seeing people there bidding on products that cost even less retail. I wish they would implement a comment system :/.
Click to expand...


That's not how capitalism works. His 9800pro is worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it, no more, and definitely no less. that's fantasy land dear.
 
You will be able to run games with higher settings on the 6600GT, but why don't you just flash your 9800 pro to XT and overclock? It will be on the same performance line as the 6600GT.
 
If I were you, I would go with option 2 or 4

1. A 6600gt will not meet your needs, 128bit memory controller and 128mb or ram, 8 pixel pipes the card has a limited useful life and will be outpaced very shortly. Not a good way to spend 200.00-250.00

2. With the 6800 you have the ability to activate the 4 missing pipelines and overclock to GT speeds, this isn't a bad option, find a discounted card in the 250-270 range and you have a card that should last a few years.

3. 6800GT, priced too high at this point to make it a valid choice for your needs.

4. Keep 9800pro a few more months wait for ATI X800XL AGP version to be released.
 
I did consider the 6800GT but I might cost to much and it'd require a lot of physical work on my system to actually get the card to fit (I've modded the board with heatsinks and I'm concluded that a 6800GT won't fit unless I take some hacksaws to my epoxied sinks).
Click to expand...

Just to give you an idea of what kind of performace you would see on that system with a 6800 GT.

I have similar setup to yours except im limited to 166 FSB but still running 2500 MHz on my mobile athlon xp and In the CS VST I get 89.7 FPS @ 1600x1200 forced 4xAA Gamma Corrected, 8xAF Reflect World, all optimizations on.
 
i can say from experience from the 9700 aiw to the 6800 there is a huge preformance leap to the 6600gt, but if your games are running great than stick with the 9800, but personally I prefer the nvidia control options over the catalyst just mho thou :)
 
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