Valve = "Penny Pusher"!

obyj34 said:
OK, ok, here we go.... right click on that pretty little HL2 logo in Steam, then we go down to manual and click on it! Wooh would you look at that a pdf, perfect for reading and printing!

Sorry for the hatred, but stop complaining that you didn't get a jewel case. Quite frankly, no one cares. If you wan't a jewel case, as stated before, go and buy one. Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go throw toilets at alien soldiers.
Click to expand...

I dont really give a shit if you or anyone else cares. I posted this thread to rant about something that irritated me, not to try and get sympathy because of it.

They have went from using the larger full size retail game boxes to the smaller ones and now we dont even get an instruction manual or jewel case to keep the CD's in any more. And the prices on the games aren't coming down because of it ither. If anything they are going up.

All our money is going into valve's million dollar advertising budget.
 
i dont mind giving money to valve. afterall they spent all their earnings from halflife1 on halflife2, and they will continue to make more stuff for us with the money they get
 
doh-nut said:
i dont mind giving money to valve. afterall they spent all their earnings from halflife1 on halflife2, and they will continue to make more stuff for us with the money they get
Click to expand...
you honestly you think 100% of hl1 sales went to hl2? im sure gabe doesnt drive a honda civic ;)
 
Personally, I like the smaller boxes. I hope they switch to DVD cases soon.

I think the last manual for a FPS I looked at was in '98, for Unreal. I do agree, it's pretty chincy that all we got was 5 paper sleeves and a quick reference card. But... enh, whatever...

For the discussion about profits, you're forgetting that retailers get a large slice of the pie. With Valve charging full retail over steam, that's another slice they can hopefully keep for themselves. I agree with Torgo, VU is still getting their cut.

You know, after all the crap surrounding this game, it's the gameplay that matters. Shut up and go play. Dammit. :D

-dB
 
Bad_Boy said:
you honestly you think 100% of hl1 sales went to hl2? im sure gabe doesnt drive a honda civic ;)
Click to expand...

well of course not, they have to feed their families and such, im just saying what valve said in an interview a while back. they did put most of it towards hl2....and gabe drives a pimped out geo metro
 
doh-nut said:
well of course not, they have to feed their families and such, im just saying what valve said in an interview a while back. they did put most of it towards hl2....and gabe drives a pimped out geo metro
Click to expand...
i guess, but i dont see how its any different from epic using alot of the money from ut2k3 towards ut2k4.
 
Bad_Boy said:
i guess, but i dont see how its any different from epic using alot of the money from ut2k3 towards ut2k4.
Click to expand...

i was just replying in regards to the comment burninggrave made about all of our money going into valves advertising.
 
k1pp3r said:
name one that isn't
Click to expand...

Name ONE that isn't black and white?

How many PC Games have you bought? lol

Well i just pulled two or three of my games off the shelf and UT2K4 has a colored manual and so does Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind. There are alot of games with colored manuals.

Personally i dont care if its colored or black and white just as long as its something.

I just dont know why its such a big freaking deal to get a manual and a jewel case for my CD's instead of some cheap ass paper sleeves.

Maybe in a couple years they'll be so cheap they wont even sell retail versions of games any more and you'll be forced to download it online so they can pocket even more money.
 
i dont see what the big fuss is about a color manual, black and white is even better, it means you can take out your crayons, and color it yourself. explore your artistic and creative side, and then scan it and show everyone in the forum the beautiful work you have done
 
doh-nut said:
i dont see what the big fuss is about a color manual, black and white is even better, it means you can take out your crayons, and color it yourself. explore your artistic and creative side, and then scan it and show everyone in the forum the beautiful work you have done
Click to expand...
Muwaha!
 
burningrave101 said:
I just dont know why its such a big freaking deal to get a manual and a jewel case for my CD's instead of some cheap ass paper sleeves.
Click to expand...

i don't see why it is such a big freaking deal to enjoy what you are given, when you pay over 40 million to make a game then you can call the shots.

Oh and just for your info, i buy a lot of games, guess i just don't give a shit about a few pieces of paper stapled together, unless its something like neverwinter nights or similar, HL2 manual, i really could care less, let the tree live
 
burningrave101 said:
Name ONE that isn't black and white?

How many PC Games have you bought? lol

Well i just pulled two or three of my games off the shelf and UT2K4 has a colored manual and so does Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind. There are alot of games with colored manuals.

Personally i dont care if its colored or black and white just as long as its something.

I just dont know why its such a big freaking deal to get a manual and a jewel case for my CD's instead of some cheap ass paper sleeves.

Maybe in a couple years they'll be so cheap they wont even sell retail versions of games any more and you'll be forced to download it online so they can pocket even more money.
Click to expand...
And the both of them together make for maybe a 5-10 minute read. Manuals have been getting thinner/crappier for years now, this is just the next logical step.

Publishers have been skimping for years on jewel cases as well. Take a look at your UT2K4 case, it's 4 paper sleeves and a cardboard box. Yet for some reason you pin the blame solely on Valve, despite the fact that the industry has been heading this way for a while now.

Anyways, I took doh-nut's advice and started my own manual!!

shoot8wl.jpg

open4cd.jpg
 
k1pp3r said:
i don't see why it is such a big freaking deal to enjoy what you are given, when you pay over 40 million to make a game then you can call the shots.
Click to expand...

Enjoy what i'm givin? I wasn't givin shit! You have to BUY it. If Valve was giving it out for free then i wouldn't be complaining. But if i'm going to pay $50 for a damn CD i want to at least have something as simple as a hard jewel case and an instruction manual. I really dont think thats asking too freaking much. :mad:

Software publishers shouldn't even stop for a half of a second and wonder why softare piracy is as bad as it is today when prices on software is as high as the price for most hardware and when you buy it you can't can't even get a damn instruction manual any more.

I'm surprised they didn't send me my copy in a re-used envelope they found in the trash.

k1pp3r said:
Oh and just for your info, i buy a lot of games, guess i just don't give a shit about a few pieces of paper stapled together, unless its something like neverwinter nights or similar, HL2 manual, i really could care less, let the tree live
Click to expand...

I'd say that too if i just asked someone to name ONE game that had a colored manual.
 
WuTangClam said:
And the both of them together make for maybe a 5-10 minute read. Manuals have been getting thinner/crappier for years now, this is just the next logical step.
Click to expand...
No, they've just become what's known as the "Official Strategy Guide" now on sale for $19.95 from Prima Publishing. You now have to pay extra for your manual.
 
burningrave101 said:
I'd say that too if i just asked someone to name ONE game that had a colored manual.
Click to expand...

what the fuck was that suppost to mean huh?
 
burningrave101 said:
It means you were covering up for asking me a really ignorant question lol.
Click to expand...

no, i read your post about some, but the majority are not, bottom line is i really dont' give a shit about a crappy manual

There was nothing ignorant about the question, and you answered with with a smart ass comment of "how many game so you buy" but at least you answered it i do have to give you that, it just so happens none of the games you mentioned i own or have even played
 
bipolar said:
No offense to you, but I'm going to defer to George Broussard's insight into this matter.
Click to expand...
Funny you should bring George up. I'm a friend of Scott Miller's. Scott has better insight than me, having used the Shareware model and retail sales to great success. I fired off a message to him asking him for his advice on the matter. I'll let you know of any answers.
 
k1pp3r said:
ok you say it cost about $2.50 to produce one copy of the game, they charge $54.99 for the game, that is one hell of a markup (what around 2000% markup just on the game, not including shipping costs). with manual make that say $2.75 you can add say another 250% markup just for the manual they put in there and make it and add another $7 bucks or so to the game. And what would the manual have told you, they sure wouldn't tell you the story line, most likely not even the background info
Click to expand...

Side track:

It does not take $5 to make a game. Some of you are forgetting that Production Costs also includes the money needed to make the game: as in design, code, and test. As anyone who's taken economics knows...this is your fixed/sunk cost, and fixed cost per product goes down as you sell more.

Valve is not making $50 per game. Their "profit" per game doesn't even start until the recover all of the product costs. How many years was it in production (including delays)? multiply that by hours worked per week, multiply that by employees + overtime...etc. Not to mention that if you want a manual, you're going to have to hire a team of writers, artists, editors and a manager. You'd think a small manual would be easy, but not in a company environment...everything's gotta be done in commitee, worked on, revised, brought back to the commitee, and sent back for revisions..etc. It's probably why all manuals these days basically tell me "This is your health bar. When it turns red, you're dying. When the red is all gone, you die".

Oh, and then there's the store who you buy the game from, they take a cut...and the distributor, etc. I'm going overboard, but you get the picture. I'm surprised if valve even sees $12 per copy and that goes to their development cost first before profit.

Granted, Valve's probably making a bundle on Half-life 2...but until sales figures are turned in, and their production costs are public, we won't really know. (anyone know where to look them up?)
 
burningrave101, some of the crap you come up with amazes me....BUT...I have to agree with you about one point...the jewel case. The game should have had a jewel case with factory printed covers. Same thing could have been said about Halo for the PC. I have all the games I buy in the jewel cases in a little rack. I have no idea how cheap or expensive it would have been, but it should have had a jewel case.

And BTW, nice attempt at saving yourself from your lame penny pusher comment. What is Valve, a penny dealer pushing it's pennies on the corner to penny addicts?
 
burningrave101 said:
Compared to a 6800GT or X800XT yes it sucks. I have a 6800GT so why would i even consider buying a 9800 pro? If it was $20 off an X800Pro or X800XT then that would be something special. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Not everyone has a high end card. Most people dont even have a 9800 Pro. So it is an upgrade. Saying the 9800 Pro is a bad card is just ignorant.

About as ignorant as you trying to blame Valve for the packaging.

Vivendi also did Tribes:VE. It also comes with the paper sleeves, it also has the cd-key in the exact same spot on disk one.

Yes paper sleeves suck, but try doing some research before posting making yourself look silly.
 
I would have to agree with you on this Burningave101 ;) You pay good money for a game you expect quality in the product you are buying no?
All of my current games i have bought lately have got 1 jewel case 2 Some sort of manual.
Man their is so much hate on this board lately: TOO MUCH CAFFINE AND VIOLENCE THERE FELLAS lmfao :p
 
glynn said:
I would have to agree with you on this Burningave101 ;) You pay good money for a game you expect quality in the product you are buying no?
All of my current games i have bought lately have got 1 jewel case 2 Some sort of manual.
Man their is so much hate on this board lately: TOO MUCH CAFFINE AND VIOLENCE THERE FELLAS lmfao :p
Click to expand...

The product being the game itself. Having a jewel case or a manual will *not* affect overall gameplay. You buy a game for the game, not a few pieces of paper.

And about all the money that's spent on HL2 and HL1 and all that crap. Gabe Newell used to work for Microsoft, he's a poker buddy with Bill Gates. He was rich way before he and his co-founder (also a former Microsoft employee) founded VALVe. These two men owned Microsoft stock, a lot of it if I recall correctly, then they sold the stock and became instant millionares. VALVe was founded out of the own pockets of these instant millionares. They licensed the Quake engine with their own money. They payed employees with personal funds. Etc. etc. I could go on and on, but HL1 was primarily paid for out of Newell and VALVe's co-founder's pockets.

Making a game costs a lot of money. From pre-production all the way to the store shelves, money is always exchanging hands. I'm not sure if VALVe has broke even with their sales, let alone make a profit. Game developers do *not* see every dime that you spent on the game. There are many different costs to consider. Employee salaries, office space rental, utilities, hardware, software, pre-production, production of the game, bug testing, paying the publisher, the cost of producing CDs and boxes, shipping fees, stocking fees, advertisement, and state taxes all cost money. Adding a cheap manual or jewel case will drive up costs even more.

For example, if producing a jewel case capable of holding a maximum of 6 cds costs $.10, and the publisher decides to distribute 100,000 units of the game, then the total cost of the jewel cases would be $10,000 (100,000 x $.10).

By saving money, video game developers and publishers can keep the cost of games down. For the last 6 years I can remember PC/console games being the same price rangr: $50-$60. And over those 6 years, packaging has changed. To be more tree friendly, publishers have resized the game boxes to use less paper, and more than likely, cost less to produce. These boxes are tiny compared to what they were. Do you really think that shoving a jewel case that can hold 5 CDs could fit into one of these boxes, along with a manual? Not likely.
 
INeedAName said:
By saving money, video game developers and publishers can keep the cost of games down. For the last 6 years I can remember PC/console games being the same price rangr: $50-$60. And over those 6 years, packaging has changed. To be more tree friendly, publishers have resized the game boxes to use less paper, and more than likely, cost less to produce. These boxes are tiny compared to what they were. Do you really think that shoving a jewel case that can hold 5 CDs could fit into one of these boxes, along with a manual? Not likely.
Click to expand...

My copy of Far Cry has a 6 CD jewel case and an instruction manual too! lol

If it is soooo expensive, explain to me how a company like Crytek can afford it but someone as big as Valve and Vivendi cannot?

I refuse to feel sorry for Valve. The simple fact of the matter is is that its a great game but it had poor packaging and a game of this magnitude should of been done better. Especially for as frickin long as they made us all wait before they finally released it.

They have poured millions of dollars into advertising this game and they can't even afford a jewel case and a damn instruction manual. :rolleyes:
 
The only reason to complain about the jewel case is because it helps protect the disc. Who wants to pay 50$ or more for a scratched coaster?
 
INeedAName said:
And over those 6 years, packaging has changed. To be more tree friendly, publishers have resized the game boxes to use less paper, and more than likely, cost less to produce. These boxes are tiny compared to what they were.
Click to expand...
Truth be told, the box sizes were reduced to increase shelf space at retailers. It wasn't to be "tree friendly". It was to increase sales. Stores like Wal-Mart abso-frickin-lutely love the small boxes.
 
Torgo said:
Truth be told, the box sizes were reduced to increase shelf space at retailers. It wasn't to be "tree friendly". It was to increase sales. Stores like Wal-Mart abso-frickin-lutely love the small boxes.
Click to expand...

i would have to agree with that, i don't know of many companies out there that care about the environment more than the profits they can make by destroying it. Oh and i can't stand keeping the cds in the jewel case anyway, i put them in a cd binder so i don't have to hunt for them. A jewel case for 5 cds would make that box much heavier and fell like you are getting more, thats my only thing, i picked the box up and shook it and said "what am i buying an empty box?"
 
burningrave101 said:
My copy of Far Cry has a 6 CD jewel case and an instruction manual too! lol

I refuse to feel sorry for Valve. The simple fact of the matter is is that its a great game but it had poor packaging and a game of this magnitude should of been done better. Especially for as frickin long as they made us all wait before they finally released it.

They have poured millions of dollars into advertising this game and they can't even afford a jewel case and a damn instruction manual. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Now you're just being stubborn... unless you're not reading the posts. You can blaim VU for the shoddy packaging. How is it Valve's fault? I don't see the greatness of the UT2004 manual or the FarCry manual. They weren't that good, just a color brochure of the waepons mostly.

Also, does anyone else hate those multi-cd jewel cases? Try fitting the one for DOOM3 or FarCry in a standard CD rack.
 
Even though burningrave101 is a raving lunatic I'd have to agree about the jewel case. It can't cost too much more for a jewel case. If you keep your game CDs in a big CD folder then it's not really a problem for you, but if not then it might be tough to keep track of 5 CDs in separate paper sleeves. Then again I bought through Steam so I really don't need to worry about it either way. ;)

When it comes to a manual, though, I could really care less. I usually throw away the box and all the other crap (and the manual counts as crap) and just keep the game CDs. When I buy a game I only really want the game, not a book about a game.
 
after reading various posts on valve/steam I would never purchase this game period. Consumer gets screwed! I waited for all the shit to hit hte fan and man did it ever! I was a fan of hl 1st edition but you couldnt make me buy this game even if you held a gun to my head :eek:
 
purefun65 said:
after reading various posts on valve/steam I would never purchase this game period. Consumer gets screwed! I waited for all the shit to hit hte fan and man did it ever! I was a fan of hl 1st edition but you couldnt make me buy this game even if you held a gun to my head :eek:
Click to expand...
el oh el. Name any game released in the last 5 years, for any platform, of any quality, and I guarantee you I'll find hundreds of posts on some forum complaining about it. In fact I'm so confident, I'll wager any amount of money you choose -- perhaps we can escrow the money with a trustworthy mod.

Consumer gets screwed? I paid $59 for HL2: Silver and got to play the best game of the year, plus a free DM mod, the entire back catalog, and the hundreds of mods to come. Perhaps we have different definitions of "screwed"

Anyway, LMK about that wager, k? TIA!
 
Torgo said:
Truth be told, the box sizes were reduced to increase shelf space at retailers. It wasn't to be "tree friendly". It was to increase sales. Stores like Wal-Mart abso-frickin-lutely love the small boxes.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're right. My memory's rustier than I thought.

I have a story. A loooong time ago my brother and I bought Diablo 2. It came in this huge box with a jewel case to hold its CDs and game with the first Diablo game. It was the Diablo battlechest. For spending extra money, you get the two games and two strategy guides. After the industry started changing its box sizes and all that, and after the CD-key on the old Diablo 2 jewel case rubbed off, my brother decided to buy another copy of Diablo 2. He opens it up... and sees cds on paper sleeves; no jewel case. Did he care? No. Has he ever cared? No. All he wants is his game. That's the point, you buy the game for the GAME. When you complain about something like the lack of a manual or jewel case, you sound like a whining four year old running to his mommy. You paid $50 for the game, not some manual you'll only look at once and forget about.
 
INeedAName said:
Yeah, you're right. My memory's rustier than I thought.

I have a story. A loooong time ago my brother and I bought Diablo 2. It came in this huge box with a jewel case to hold its CDs and game with the first Diablo game. It was the Diablo battlechest. For spending extra money, you get the two games and two strategy guides. After the industry started changing its box sizes and all that, and after the CD-key on the old Diablo 2 jewel case rubbed off, my brother decided to buy another copy of Diablo 2. He opens it up... and sees cds on paper sleeves; no jewel case. Did he care? No. Has he ever cared? No. All he wants is his game. That's the point, you buy the game for the GAME. When you complain about something like the lack of a manual or jewel case, you sound like a whining four year old running to his mommy. You paid $50 for the game, not some manual you'll only look at once and forget about.
Click to expand...

No i sound like a pissed off customer when i have to pay $50 for one game and i can't even get something as simple as a jewel case to put the CD's in and an instruction manual.

It has nothing to do with me truly needing them, it has to do with the fact that they dont care about the customer and they cut corners wherever they can to save a few dollars and those few dollars aren't coming off the initial price of what i'm having to pay.
 
This is VUG's packaging. I bought Tribes:Vengeance a few months ago and it is dirt cheap too.

4 CHEAP ASS looking CDs, shiny with some crap print on them and four envelopes. No jewel case. Makes the key easier than ever to lose.
 
Micas said:
No.. don't tell him that.. even if it's true.. We have to keep hating Valve or life will lose it's meaning.. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
But we also have to continue to overrate HL2 to death. It really does not make a whole lot of sense to me.
 
burningrave101 said:
No i sound like a pissed off customer when i have to pay $50 for one game and i can't even get something as simple as a jewel case to put the CD's in and an instruction manual.

It has nothing to do with me truly needing them, it has to do with the fact that they dont care about the customer and they cut corners wherever they can to save a few dollars and those few dollars aren't coming off the initial price of what i'm having to pay.
Click to expand...

Of course they don't. Welcome to the real world. Companies do not exist to serve you -- they exist to make a profit for their shareholders (if publicly owned) or the owners (if privately owned). The entire point of companies is to make money; if there were no money to be made, there would be no companies, no computers, no computer games, and we'd all be living in caves.

The solution is to vote with your dollars. If whether you get a jewel case or not is a deciding factor on whether you will buy a given game, than don't buy it. To the majority of people, it is a non-factor and we will continue to enjoy games, paper sleeves notwithstanding.

Incidentally, I never use the jewel cases anyway. What a pain to have 100 of them to sort through when you want to install a game. I put all my cd-roms in a giant CD binder, and tape on the cd-key of the game to one of the sleeves with the appropriate cd-rom. Makes it easier for lanning, too -- bring the entire book and you'll be able to install any games necessary when you get there, instead of just hoping you have the same games as everyone else or toting 3 dozen jewel cases.
 
bipolar said:
Manual? For a FPS? OK, here you go:

You are Gordon Freeman. Now, go out and kill stuff!

Print that out, and print out a picture of Gordon or something. Staple them together and you have your very own manual. Problem solved :cool:
Click to expand...
then explain to me what those little cicrles with the sperm looking thing inside are? i have tons of them, but i hav no clue to which gun they belong. They are orange thingies that you pick up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top