NVIDIA's RTX 4080 Problem: They're Not Selling & MSRP Doesn't Exist

Blade-Runner said:
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Shipments of discrete GPUs at their lowest level in almost 20 years.
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That huge spike in q3/4 of 2007, when Crysis released in November. Pretty crazy!
 
Hey I had $899 in the pool at work discussing how much the 4070ti will launch at. 799! What a deal! /s.

Not surprising if it makes 3080ti or better performance people will somehow justify it being “cheaper “ than the previous cards at that performance.

I stay plugged in to all the hardware launches but the FOMO has long gone for me thankfully.

Edit: as for pricing seeing how this card stacks up to the 7900xt will be interesting with the current pricing there.
 
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12 gig of VRAM, 3090TI RT performance it is a bit sad that they continue the pay 75% of a 4080 price and get only 75% of the card tradition here.

At $650 USD with a choice of card actually close to the price it would have been maybe an excellent fine card once the review come out, but with how much used 3090 goes on ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=rtx+3090&_sacat=0&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1

$1000 still happen for the FE

Easy to see why you try to go at $800/900
 
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Armenius said:
It's still a $500 card they're trying to sell for $800.
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Get with the times...

P.S. you may not remember me but I left [H] a few years ago complaining of high prices... you made up story saying I messaged you saying nasty stuff when I never did...
 
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psy81 said:
Get with the times...

P.S. you may not remember me but I left [H] a few years ago complaining of high prices... you made up story saying I messaged you saying nasty stuff when I never did... you're a complete a troll
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I don't recall saying anything nasty about any member here. I looked through all my postings and our interactions have always been cordial. I looked through my PMs and found nothing with your user name.

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The only time I've deleted posts is when I accidentally post to the wrong thread, posted a duplicate, or noticed breaking a rule before the hammer came down. I do not delete posts or PMs for any other reason, including when I'm wrong.

This is the last thing I could find where we interacted:
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You quoted a post I made in this thread, but I was replying to the original post.

There was some argument I had with somebody where I said that NVIDIA wouldn't raise their prices when Turing came out, and we made a bet, and I honored the conditions of that bet when I was proven wrong by changing my signature for 1 year. I changed it back after that year was up. I don't remember if that was you, but again, nothing bad was said.
 
Armenius said:
I don't recall saying anything nasty about any member here. I looked through all my postings and our interactions have always been cordial. I looked through my PMs and found nothing with your user name.

View attachment 538034

The only time I've deleted posts is when I accidentally post to the wrong thread, posted a duplicate, or noticed breaking a rule before the hammer came down. I do not delete posts or PMs for any other reason, including when I'm wrong.

This is the last thing I could find where we interacted:
View attachment 538035

You quoted a post I made in this thread, but I was replying to the original post.

There was some argument I had with somebody where I said that NVIDIA wouldn't raise their prices when Turing came out, and we made a bet, and I honored the conditions of that bet when I was proven wrong by changing my signature for 1 year. I changed it back after that year was up. I don't remember if that was you, but again, nothing bad was said.
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Armenius said:
I don't recall saying anything nasty about any member here. I looked through all my postings and our interactions have always been cordial. I looked through my PMs and found nothing with your user name.

View attachment 538034

The only time I've deleted posts is when I accidentally post to the wrong thread, posted a duplicate, or noticed breaking a rule before the hammer came down. I do not delete posts or PMs for any other reason, including when I'm wrong.

This is the last thing I could find where we interacted:
View attachment 538035

You quoted a post I made in this thread, but I was replying to the original post.

There was some argument I had with somebody where I said that NVIDIA wouldn't raise their prices when Turing came out, and we made a bet, and I honored the conditions of that bet when I was proven wrong by changing my signature for 1 year. I changed it back after that year was up. I don't remember if that was you, but again, nothing bad was said.
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There's the proof... The fact that you admit there was nothing in your PMs shows you lied. I never messaged you saying anything nasty.
 
psy81 said:
There's the proof... The fact that you admit there was nothing in your PMs shows you lied. I never messaged you saying anything nasty.
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I said "I don't recall..." I might have confused you with another user who sent me a PM in poor taste around the same time, looking at my list. For that, I apologize.
 
Flogger23m said:
That is how I feel.

I suppose I am grateful I have a 3070. $800 is a bit much for me, so I may just continue using this one for a while. It generally works great but I might prioritize older or less demanding games going forward.
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Same. It looks like I'll be on my FE 3080 for at least one more gen. I was hoping AMD launch would bring the 4080 down to the $800 range over time, but the 4070ti launching at $800 kills that dream lol.

The trend of leaps in performance coming with a corresponding leap in price sort of takes the excitement out of next gen launches. It feels more like an extension of the existing product stack rather than a new launch.
 
Upon release, I think $599 to $699 will be a reasonable price range for 4070 Ti. and likely will not happen. $799 is still on a high side. $899 is just dreaming. I'm basing this on previous two xx70 Ti generation releases with some inflation, 2070 Super ($499, 2019) and 3070 Ti ($599, 2021), ignoring Jensen previous comment about gpu model number naming is not relevant now.

This price range will compete with 3080 Ti. I think 3080 Ti is a tad slower but will see actual benchmarking result early next year. 4070 Ti will certainly be more power efficient though.
 
LukeTbk said:
I am not sure if it shows that the price per transistor went up
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Making a GAA transistor will have to involve more patterning steps to get those multiple layers of source/drain, I would think. All other things being equal, that would have to directly or indirectly (via extra time taken to produce the full design of the transistor) increase cost.
 
$800, probably will be $900 after accounting for AIB markup in practice if the 4080 and 4090 are anything to go by.

We're still waiting for independent benchmarks, but NVIDIA is really putting the screws to AMD at that price point if it's anywhere near competent for $800. Might force some immediate price drops on the 7900 XT, if not the XTX.
 
NamelessPFG said:
$800, probably will be $900 after accounting for AIB markup in practice if the 4080 and 4090 are anything to go by.

We're still waiting for independent benchmarks, but NVIDIA is really putting the screws to AMD at that price point if it's anywhere near competent for $800. Might force some immediate price drops on the 7900 XT, if not the XTX.
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Considering that the 7900XTX more than competes with the 4080, I'm not sure how that would happen, unless you're implying that the 4070Ti will also be as fast and/or faster in some cases than a 4080. And if that's also the case, then nVidia should've just launched the 4070Ti as a 4080 12GB like they originally intended. There was no point in all of this reaction that they had before the 7900XTX launch.

Performance wise, it will likely land somewhere between a 3090 and a 4080. But we have no idea precisely where yet. That's a wide range.
 
UnknownSouljer said:
Considering that the 7900XTX more than competes with the 4080, I'm not sure how that would happen, unless you're implying that the 4070Ti will also be as fast and/or faster in some cases than a 4080. And if that's also the case, then nVidia should've just launched the 4070Ti as a 4080 12GB like they originally intended. There was no point in all of this reaction that they had before the 7900XTX launch.

Performance wise, it will likely land somewhere between a 3090 and a 4080. But we have no idea precisely where yet. That's a wide range.
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I was emphasizing the 7900 XT, not the XTX, since the XT performs much worse than the $100 difference from the XTX would imply.

The 4070 Ti could very well eat the XT's lunch if it's close enough, especially if the XT still loses in VR. (To put this into perspective, the XTX apparently loses to a mere 3080 in Assetto Corza according to someone who upgraded GPUs specifically for VR, never mind something like DCS or MSFS2020, and a lot of it has to do with their Windows drivers having random framedrops that they don't suffer from under Linux.)

NVIDIA absolutely deserved being called out on the 4080 12 GB, though. That was a lot more than a simple VRAM cut - 192-bit memory bus, anyone?
 
NamelessPFG said:
I was emphasizing the 7900 XT, not the XTX, since the XT performs much worse than the $100 difference from the XTX would imply.
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Okay, I was directly responding to this statement:
NamelessPFG said:
We're still waiting for independent benchmarks, but NVIDIA is really putting the screws to AMD at that price point if it's anywhere near competent for $800. Might force some immediate price drops on the 7900 XT, if not the XTX.
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Which directly is calling the 7900XTX performance into question by the 4070Ti, "possibly necessitating a price drop". As I explained, that would mean the 4070Ti would have to have similar to 4080 performance in order to do that.

NamelessPFG said:
The 4070 Ti could very well eat the XT's lunch if it's close enough, especially if the XT still loses in VR. (To put this into perspective, the XTX apparently loses to a mere 3080 in Assetto Corza according to someone who upgraded GPUs specifically for VR, never mind something like DCS or MSFS2020, and a lot of it has to do with their Windows drivers having random framedrops that they don't suffer from under Linux.)
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It's very possible that the 4070Ti will offer better value for money. It seems though with AMD's pricing strategy that they won't have a problem dropping the XT price in response. However, I'm not holding by breath for nVidia to do the "right thing" if their current pricing of their product stack is of any indication.
NamelessPFG said:
NVIDIA absolutely deserved being called out on the 4080 12 GB, though. That was a lot more than a simple VRAM cut - 192-bit memory bus, anyone?
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I'm sure you're aware the 4070Ti is the 4080 12GB renamed. I'm certain that their "scale pricing" is going to have "dollars to percent of performance" scale exactly, just like they did with the relative pricing of the 3090 to 4080 and 4090.
 
UnknownSouljer said:
Okay, I was directly responding to this statement:

Which directly is calling the 7900XTX performance into question by the 4070Ti, "possibly necessitating a price drop". As I explained, that would mean the 4070Ti would have to have similar to 4080 performance in order to do that.


It's very possible that the 4070Ti will offer better value for money. It seems though with AMD's pricing strategy that they won't have a problem dropping the XT price in response. However, I'm not holding by breath for nVidia to do the "right thing" if their current pricing of their product stack is of any indication.

I'm sure you're aware the 4070Ti is the 4080 12GB renamed. I'm certain that their "scale pricing" is going to have "dollars to percent of performance" scale exactly, just like they did with the relative pricing of the 3090 to 4080 and 4090.
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I may have poorly worded that first statement in hindsight. I meant it more that it's targeting the XT, and if it can dethrone the XTX in a few edge cases (RT most likely, VR also a strong possibility if AMD doesn't fix their frame-pacing in Windows), all the better for NVIDIA no matter how much they lose in raster.

And yeah, I'm aware that the 4070 Ti is the 4080 12 GB rebadged. If they've already produced the GPUs, no sense in wasting them, but at least be upfront about where the product falls in the stack and price it appropriately instead of trying to lie to us all, you know? It's far from the first time NVIDIA's pulled that crap, but at least everybody noticed.

All I know is that this gen is a hot mess for bang-for-the-buck buyers, no matter which side you go with - a bit more literally in AMD's case with these 110C GCD hotspot temps that a repaste isn't fixing at all.
 
NamelessPFG said:
And yeah, I'm aware that the 4070 Ti is the 4080 12 GB rebadged. If they've already produced the GPUs, no sense in wasting them, but at least be upfront about where the product falls in the stack and price it appropriately instead of trying to lie to us all, you know?
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Doesn't seem like there will be much of a price drop. If that ends up being the case the only thing Nvidia did was swap boxes. I hope people realize that and just let them collect some dust so prices come down quickly. Same price/performance is what matters, the number or product name is irrelevant.
 
Here in the UK, nearly every 4080 model with the exeption of the FE has been in stock somewhere since they launched. No one's buying (or very few, at least).

A few weeks ago, one of the vendors lowered the price to £1099 on a Palit model, likely to test the waters (base MSRP in UK is £1200, although all AIB models are priced higher). Even then, it took a few days for that model to sell out, and likely only because it was cheaper relative to all other models.
 
Flogger23m said:
Doesn't seem like there will be much of a price drop. If that ends up being the case the only thing Nvidia did was swap boxes. I hope people realize that and just let them collect some dust so prices come down quickly. Same price/performance is what matters, the number or product name is irrelevant.
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I think a name \ box swap is all people really expected. Naming it a 4080 12gb even though it's not just a 4080 with less RAM is shady AF.

The high pricing sucks but at least people know what they are buying if they choose to buy one.
 
NamelessPFG said:
$800, probably will be $900 after accounting for AIB markup in practice if the 4080 and 4090 are anything to go by.
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You're $100 too low if these BestBuy placeholder pages go live Jan.3 without changes. 4070Ti FE $899 and AIB's $950+ is what it appears.

I'd guessed in an earlier post that we'd see no 4080 MSRP price drop on Jan 3 and that also seems more likely going by this.

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Flogger23m said:
Same price/performance is what matters
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3090 was $1500 at launch. Now we have a 4070ti launching for $799-999 (we'll find out soon!) that performs the same or a scrap better plus has dlss 3 frame gen, the very next generstion. How is that the same price/perf but for entitled forum whiners? Also, the 4090 for a tad more than the 3090 far outperforms!
 
Pascal basically ruined the price performance perspective for me. I walked into Microcenter and bought an EVGA sc 1070 for 429 bucks with a nicer than FE cooler and backplate etc for only 50 or so more than the FE price. Back then only the Titan cards were stupid expensive and everyone was ok with super expensive professional cards that can game on the side. Of course I understand that generational improvements, new technologies, smaller more expensive fabs , inflation, fat margins and so on have driven prices up over time. I look for fps per dollar at a desired resolution now because the names of the cards hardly matter anymore. So a xx70 card at 8-900 bucks seems just out of bounds even if it hangs with last years xx90 card. Pascal was a home run in price/performance and performance/ watt as well. Again I get that we are now chasing high refresh 4K gaming with RT and so on so it’s a brute force approach right now and apparently brute force is expensive.
 
I’m very much looking forward to seeing how the 4000 series plays in the Mobile sector. From the leaks I’m hearing about the 4060 sips power and runs relatively cool while performing smack between a 3070 and a 3070ti. The 4090 should beat out the 3090ti desktop while only using 150w peak draw.
 
GoldenTiger said:
3090 was $1500 at launch. Now we have a 4070ti launching for $799-999 (we'll find out soon!) that performs the same or a scrap better plus has dlss 3 frame gen, the very next generstion. How is that the same price/perf but for entitled forum whiners? Also, the 4090 for a tad more than the 3090 far outperforms!
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GTX 470 - $350
GTX 470 - $400
GTX 570 - $350
GTX 670 - $400
GTX 970 - $330
GTX 1070 - $380
RTX 2070 - $500
RTX 3070 - $500
RTX 4070 ti - $800-1000

Yeah, a bit of a leap there even accounting for inflation. While MSRP isn't always firm I tended to get AIB versions with nice coolers for around $20 more than MSRP. My 970 was $350, 1070 was $390 as examples. RTX 3070 I was forced to buy the super duper FTW/OC edition or whatever it was called due to shortages and was still $570 before the craziness took over and prices jumped but that wasn't a normal situation.

Will the regular RTX 4070 be cheaper? Probably, but the performance will probably be underwhelming if the price is over $400-500.
 
GoldenTiger said:
3090 was $1500 at launch. Now we have a 4070ti launching for $799-999 (we'll find out soon!) that performs the same or a scrap better plus has dlss 3 frame gen, the very next generstion. How is that the same price/perf but for entitled forum whiners? Also, the 4090 for a tad more than the 3090 far outperforms!
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3090 was barely a viable gaming card, I would compare this with the 3070-3080 offering (but using the actual price we had to pay to get them), not the terrible gaming value 3090.

I suspect the price/perf will be quite similar and not much of a gain if any, the bar of a xx70 product is not to compete with previous halo 3090 perf/price of more than 2 year's ago, but to beat the actual price/perf of the 3070/3080.
 
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Flogger23m said:
GTX 470 - $350
GTX 470 - $400
GTX 570 - $350
GTX 670 - $400
GTX 970 - $330
GTX 1070 - $380
RTX 2070 - $500
RTX 3070 - $500
RTX 4070 ti - $800-1000

Yeah, a bit of a leap there even accounting for inflation. While MSRP isn't always firm I tended to get AIB versions with nice coolers for around $20 more than MSRP. My 970 was $350, 1070 was $390 as examples. RTX 3070 I was forced to buy the super duper FTW/OC edition or whatever it was called due to shortages and was still $570 before the craziness took over and prices jumped but that wasn't a normal situation.

Will the regular RTX 4070 be cheaper? Probably, but the performance will probably be underwhelming if the price is over $400-500.
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Stop getting so hung up on the name and focus on the performance/pricing ;).
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
20-25% faster than the 3080 for 14% more money. If we consider inflation, the price is the same.
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Faster than a 3090 for a little more than half the money. If we consider a proper comparison, it's a big price/perf increase. We aren't in the 90's anymore.
 
That's assuming you were to think the 3090 was ever good at that price. I swear, it's the Ampere value logic all over again. "What a great value when compared to Turing!" while ignoring that compared to Pascal, you weren't getting any more bang for your buck. The only way people can even try to spin these as good value is to compare to incredibly bad values.

Whatever.
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
The 4090 was a tier performance increase of about 60%. The 4070 Ti is 20-25. The 4090's price increase was even smaller!
It's a con job.
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NightReaver said:
That's assuming you were to think the 3090 was ever good at that price. I swear, it's the Ampere value logic all over again. "What a great value when compared to Turing!" while ignoring that compared to Pascal, you weren't getting any more bang for your buck. The only way people can even try to spin these as good value is to compare to incredibly bad values.

Whatever.
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I buy performance, not names.
 
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