Microsoft is turning Windows 11's Start Menu into an advertisement delivery system

That all depends on your level of intelligence. Also yes it would. Besides the inherit nature of open source which means you can't do something for money without consequence, (looking at you CentOS), but there's also the fact that GNU Linux distros don't have a specific UI. If I want I can switch from Cinnamon UI to Mate, to KDE, to whatever I want by just logging out and back in. Which none of those GUI's have any sort of ads in the start menu or anywhere. Even if they did it would be one of many UI's people could switch to. I use Cinnamon because it's the most Windows like UI, but if they decided to inject ads then I'd probably switch to KDE or wait for someone to fork it since it's open source. This is why Open Office got forked into Iibre, and why Emby got forked into JellyFin. Someone does want to take their project to make monetary income but all that does is just force people to fork it. You can't fork Windows when Microsoft pushes for Just remove all the controls and add an uninterrupted end of file gate to each piece of ad content.

I am not talking about building out a workspace where you avoid fingerprinting wrappers.
I was talking about embedding ads into the content most people consume as being the better method as it’s harder for users to dodge.
Sure, fingerprinting a user off header data is clunkier when I can’t default ingest traces of their browsing history.

If the user commits to remote git we have a trace, if they’re dependent on certain package managers or repositories we have a trace.

I don’t necessarily have to have more than xserver and specific package dependencies installed to situationally use ui applications but that’s a different story.



Sadly the "workstation version" officially supported by AMD even for Threadripper Pro (WRX80) is just stock Windows 10 Pro and 11 Pro. Thats it, the entirety of their OS support for their non-Epyc platforms. Imagine you bought a $7000 CPU, $1000 MB and $1200 in DDR4 and you're greeted with shopping suggestions, hollywood gossip and Candy Crush.

That MS is adamant about no true Workstation SKU, and Pro is really just Home with domain joining, is telling. LTSC doesn't count because it's a different beast and requires an ELA, which locks out SMBs and retail users.
Buddy of mine works for an MS centric MSP and has been decommissioning a lot of gear recently.
Some thinkstations & precisions came up, but I don’t need a desktop right now.
I cared more about having A5000/A5500/A6000 local, starting to focus less on Apache Airflow and more on Hudi.
Most of that stream flow visualization I wanted to rewrite with nvidia tensor connectors.

The VPN issues aren’t a problem, there are still carrier data centers I still have architect creds to.
Just have to give the Staff NA over there a heads up if there was something I absolutely had to consume.
The joke is that you pick a bunch of the partner networks and GRE thru them.

I keep hearing people talk about Brave, but Min made more sense for a non chromium alternative.
https://github.com/minbrowser/min

My assumption is most people can pickup js if they haven’t already.

I like the extensibility of electron applications, I stuffed diagram readers into vs code for a project I had to ship tonight and got some cool ideas of my own if I have to work with that org again.
 
I always prefer the 3rd party version of windows such as Ghost / Spectre.
Almost all the bloatware and unneeded services are turned off.

Been installing Windows 11 on 2 rigs of my friends, and Windows 10 on some of my friends rigs and couldn't find ads on the start menu.
 
I am not talking about building out a workspace where you avoid fingerprinting wrappers.
I was talking about embedding ads into the content most people consume as being the better method as it’s harder for users to dodge.
You're advocating for ways so users can see ads? Tech Jesus Christ.
 
Yeah fuck that.

I'm still on Windows 10. Haven't seen a reason to "upgrade" yet. (I didn't care fot the OSX look the first time around)

Unless there is a way to workaround or disable this, it pretty much makes Win11 a "never use" for me.
Just get a third party Start Menu replacement like StartAllBack. It gives you a Win7ish Start Menu and restores the task bar capabilities (move to sides or top). I've been using Open Shell since the Win8.1 days. When I tried Win11, StartAllBack was the first thing I installed.

note: I did restore Win10 on my machine since I ran into some weird problems with 11 (not start menu or taskbar related). Thought I'd wait awhile before making a real switch to 11.
 
I don't understand people's fixation with the start button, as I don't know anybody who still uses it for anything but the search function but sure.
Functionally I don't see a difference between the way it behaves in 11 as compared to 7, in 7 you navigate folders to get to an icon to click, in 11 you do away with the folders and just have the icons. The important stuff was a desktop launcher or pinned to the taskbar regardless and you usually went there first anyways.
 
I don't understand people's fixation with the start button, as I don't know anybody who still uses it for anything but the search function but sure.
Functionally I don't see a difference between the way it behaves in 11 as compared to 7, in 7 you navigate folders to get to an icon to click, in 11 you do away with the folders and just have the icons. The important stuff was a desktop launcher or pinned to the taskbar regardless and you usually went there first anyways.

I mostly agree.

I rarely use the start menu. Most of the time it's windows key -> start typing -> hit enter to launch.

Occasionally I have a senior moment and can't remember the name of the program I want to launch, and then the hierarchical folders in the start menu are helpful. I liked the ones in Windows 7 more than 10, as I just find them difficult to navigate in 10. I've barely used 11. it's installed on my work laptop, but I barely ever use it.

I only have two programs on there I really need (Minitab and Acrobat Pro) and if I'm honest I don't even use them very often anymore since I've taken on a more senior role. The Younger engineers tend to do more of that stuff. Everything else I do in a dedicated Win 10 work VM on my desktop.

One of my biggest peeves with Windows - however - is how they have been adding so much bloat.

Background processes that run whether you want them to or not, "news and interests", pre-installed "tablet-like" programs (camera, contacts, clock, etc.) cloud integration, MS spyware, those stupid cartoons in the search box, Cortana, etc. etc. etc.

IMHO, out of the box, there should not be a single service that runs in the background.

I want an operating system that is just an operating system. No bloat. No preinstalled programs, especially no programs that I cant remove, or that stay installed somewhere even if I uninstall them just to pop up again when I create a new account, no automation. If I want a program, I can install it myself. I want it to do absolutely nothing unless I tell it to. Like never contact a server on either the LAN or WAN unless I set it up, no auto-discovery of LAN network devices, no connecting to Microsoft's cloud, no online account syncing or integration, NOTHING.

The only time doing something like this is acceptable is if I manually go into settings and enable it myself and tell it to do so.

If I don't control 100% of everything myself,, manually, I don't want it.

I don't mind these features existing. There are certainly some people who like them, but it absolutely infuriates me that everything is on by default, and I seemingly learn about something else I don't like that is on by default all the time, and I have to whack-a-mole it off. And in some cases you can't even turn it off. This is completely unacceptable. The user needs to be 100% in control at all times, and this means anything and everything has to default to OFF and be opt in, and nothing should ever be forced on.

This is why these days I only use Windows when I am forced to. I can't stand it.
 
I don't understand people's fixation with the start button, as I don't know anybody who still uses it for anything but the search function but sure.
Functionally I don't see a difference between the way it behaves in 11 as compared to 7, in 7 you navigate folders to get to an icon to click, in 11 you do away with the folders and just have the icons. The important stuff was a desktop launcher or pinned to the taskbar regardless and you usually went there first anyways.
i dont get it either. i only click on it to search. everything else is pinned or an icon on my desktop.
 
I mostly agree.

I rarely use the start menu. Most of the time it's windows key -> start typing -> hit enter to launch.

Occasionally I have a senior moment and can't remember the name of the program I want to launch, and then the hierarchical folders in the start menu are helpful. I liked the ones in Windows 7 more than 10, as I just find them difficult to navigate in 10. I've barely used 11. it's installed on my work laptop, but I barely ever use it.

I only have two programs on there I really need (Minitab and Acrobat Pro) and if I'm honest I don't even use them very often anymore since I've taken on a more senior role. The Younger engineers tend to do more of that stuff. Everything else I do in a dedicated Win 10 work VM on my desktop.

One of my biggest peeves with Windows - however - is how they have been adding so much bloat.

Background processes that run whether you want them to or not, "news and interests", pre-installed "tablet-like" programs (camera, contacts, clock, etc.) cloud integration, MS spyware, those stupid cartoons in the search box, Cortana, etc. etc. etc.

IMHO, out of the box, there should not be a single service that runs in the background.

I want an operating system that is just an operating system. No bloat. No preinstalled programs, especially no programs that I cant remove, or that stay installed somewhere even if I uninstall them just to pop up again when I create a new account, no automation. If I want a program, I can install it myself. I want it to do absolutely nothing unless I tell it to. Like never contact a server on either the LAN or WAN unless I set it up, no auto-discovery of LAN network devices, no connecting to Microsoft's cloud, no online account syncing or integration, NOTHING.

The only time doing something like this is acceptable is if I manually go into settings and enable it myself and tell it to do so.

If I don't control 100% of everything myself,, manually, I don't want it.

I don't mind these features existing. There are certainly some people who like them, but it absolutely infuriates me that everything is on by default, and I seemingly learn about something else I don't like that is on by default all the time, and I have to whack-a-mole it off. And in some cases you can't even turn it off. This is completely unacceptable. The user needs to be 100% in control at all times, and this means anything and everything has to default to OFF and be opt in, and nothing should ever be forced on.

This is why these days I only use Windows when I am forced to. I can't stand it.
For Windows 11 Microsoft has given me way more options for what I can remove via GPO or Intune than I can do with 10, it's actually very nice in that respect.
 
For Windows 11 Microsoft has given me way more options for what I can remove via GPO or Intune than I can do with 10, it's actually very nice in that respect.

I'm not familliar with GPO or Intune. Are these things us mere mortals without Microsoft Enterprise licenses can use?

Because if not, they are mostly irrelevant.

And even if you can remove everything that way, it is an undue burden to always have to stay on top of the latest things, monitor network traffic and play whack-a-mole disabling things as they pop up.

EVERYTHING should be disabled by default, and configured as OPT IN. Even on Home versions of the OS.

They can make the configuration easy, so that even a grandma can opt in. If they did, I wouldn't ahve a problem with it. But the whole "everything is on by default, and adding something else that is potentially ruinous from a privacy perspective through patching so you have to play whack-a-mole" is completely unacceptable.

I mean, you could try to firewall all incoming and outgoing ports, and only open what you need, but then those fuckers would just start using ports 80 and 443 for their shit, and you can't firewall those off for obvious reasons.
 
Yeah fuck that.

I'm still on Windows 10... (I didn't care fot the OSX look the first time around)

Unless there is a way to workaround or disable this, it pretty much makes Win11 a "never use" for me.

https://www.stardock.com/products/start11/download It's $5.99. less if you own start8 or start10 already. I already upgraded to Start11 even though I am still running Windows 10. So I'm good whenever I eventually upgrade.

You can disable it via group policy.
View attachment 528501
I am not using SE and you can see it still removes the Recommended section.
View attachment 528504
Aww.. what are ppl gonna bitch about now?

lol
 
You can disable it via group policy.
View attachment 528501
I am not using SE and you can see it still removes the Recommended section.
View attachment 528504

Aww.. what are ppl gonna bitch about now?

lol

Again, if you need Active Directory, or an Enterprise license of windows, this is completely useless, because the overwhelming majority of even tech enthusiasts like on these forums don't have access to those things, let alone every day average people.
 
You do not need Active Directory. All Windows have a GPO system, you access it from Win+R then type in gpedit.msc, or from a command prompt, gpedit.msc

The setting can be exported from the registry as a .reg file, and all someone would need to do is download it, double click to install. After that they might need to reboot.

That's it. You don't need to know what gpedit is, just find the setting as a .reg file and import it.. it will be out there on the internet no doubt. If you are security conscious and do not want to trust a downloaded reg file (which is just text, you could open it with notepad and see if it looks suspicious before importing), then follow steps that Lakados outlined. Those directions will not be hard to find with a quick Google search.
 
you can't turn defender antivirus off now via group policy or regedit anymore 🤬
 
Again, if you need Active Directory, or an Enterprise license of windows, this is completely useless, because the overwhelming majority of even tech enthusiasts like on these forums don't have access to those things, let alone every day average people.
You don’t need Active Directory or an enterprise license to open up your local machines group policy and go to town on it.

Start-> Run-> gpedit.msc

It’s just a matter of knowing where in there to look and what questions to ask google to find what your looking for.
 
yeah but they keep neutering group policy/pro making it pointless/useless for things now
For me they have been adding more options, I can do more fine tuning on the enterprise side now that I’ve ever been able to before without the aid of a 3’rd party MDM.
 
That's only temporary, it auto re-enables after a set amount of time
The ability to disable it via Group Policy Editor (gpedit.msc) seems to still be there and functional, so I can't personally confirm what you are saying.
1669767764867.png
 
The ability to disable it via Group Policy Editor (gpedit.msc) seems to still be there and functional, so I can't personally confirm what you are saying.
View attachment 530619

it doesn't respect it nor any registry settings changed, auto-reenables after a few hours

this behavior was introduced in 22h1
 
it doesn't respect it nor any registry settings changed, auto-reenables after a few hours

this was introduced in 22h1
then you have something doing that, that's not normal behavior.
if you disable defender you also have to disable Application Guard, Exploit Guard, Memory Isolation, and other Tamper Protections as they rely on the Defender services and they will turn it back on as needed.
 
then you have something doing that, that's not normal behavior.
if you disable defender you also have to disable Application Guard, Exploit Guard, Meemory Isolation, and other Tamper Protections as they rely on the Defender services and they will turn it back on as needed.

nah it re-enables itself, always

this is new behavior introduced in 22h1, only change after disabling successfully in all prior 11 and older windows

you can try it yourself

disable it

go back in a week and look

edit: to add, it will ONLY disable itself now when another antivirus is installed, that's the only condition it stays permanently disable now
 
Last edited:
nah it re-enables itself, always

this is new behavior introduced in 22h1, only change after disabling successfully in all prior 11 and older windows

you can try it yourself

disable it

go back in a week and look
You keep saying 22H1 like it's a thing.
But if you disable a service in group policy it remains off until something forcibly turns it back on, and that something is usually one of the many security subsets that rely back on the windows defender service which you probably missed.
But if you disable all of those you might as well run something not windows, because with them off unless the machine remains offline you're in for a bad time.
 
You keep saying 22H1 like it's a thing.
But if you disable a service in group policy it remains off until something forcibly turns it back on, and that something is usually one of the many security subsets that rely back on the windows defender service which you probably missed.
But if you disable all of those you might as well run something not windows, because with them off unless the machine remains offline you're in for a bad time.

again, disable it yourself via group policy while on windows 11 22h1 and any prior version of windows 11 or older

go back in a week and see one disabled still and one not

as I edited in above, whether via group policy or registry, it will only stay permanently disabled now when there is another 3rd party AV installed and running

other people complaining about it here too:

https://lazyadmin.nl/win-11/turn-off-windows-defender-windows-11-permanently/
 
I don't understand people's fixation with the start button, as I don't know anybody who still uses it for anything but the search function but sure.
Functionally I don't see a difference between the way it behaves in 11 as compared to 7, in 7 you navigate folders to get to an icon to click, in 11 you do away with the folders and just have the icons. The important stuff was a desktop launcher or pinned to the taskbar regardless and you usually went there first anyways.

Start menu is a great place to put all of the basic setting locations. Control Panel, This PC, a button to open the various setting sub directories.
 
Last edited:
again, disable it yourself via group policy while on windows 11 22h1 and any prior version of windows 11 or older

go back in a week and see one disabled still and one not

as I edited in above, whether via group policy or registry, it will only stay permanently disabled now when there is another 3rd party AV installed and running

other people complaining about it here too:

https://lazyadmin.nl/win-11/turn-off-windows-defender-windows-11-permanently/
OK again... I am sure you are just trying to be a troll here but for those not catching on...

There is no such thing as Windows 11 22H1
That was a leaked development build and never intended for release and is not supported in any way.
Microsoft went right from 21H2 to 22H2.
This problem you are experiencing is not present in any supported release builds from Microsoft.
 
OK again... I am sure you are just trying to be a troll here but for those not catching on...

There is no such thing as Windows 11 22H1
That was a leaked development build and never intended for release and is not supported in any way.
Microsoft went right from 21H2 to 22H2.
This problem you are experiencing is not present in any supported release builds from Microsoft.

ok 22h2 my mistake stop being obtuse now and just go try it and see for yourself
 
Start menu is a great place to put all of the basic setting locations. Control Panel, This PC, a button to open the various setting sub directories.
But you can do that as easily in 11 as you could in any version, except 8... lets's all just give a moment of silence for 8 the best forgotten OS.

And not like it was the best OS everybody forgot, as in the OS that for our collective sanity we should all forget.
 
For me they have been adding more options, I can do more fine tuning on the enterprise side now that I’ve ever been able to before without the aid of a 3’rd party MDM.
One step forward, one step back. Problem is any added Enterprise-specific GPOs handy to an IT admin don't excuse the user-hostile removals and changes elsewhere.

Windows 10 was bad in the beginning for force-fed, half baked updates pulling the rug out on working PCs overnight, but they calmed down in later years. Windows 11 they're back at it again, also looking at telemetry to see which tweaks too many users are using that may ignore or go subvert features MS wants people to use.

This is an OS in a constant state of flux, where an update has to be approached not with enthusiasm but dread, like handling a scorpion with barbecue tongs to get it out of the yard.
 
ok 22h2 my mistake stop being obtuse now and just go try it and see for yourself
Yea it's not a problem in 22H2 unless you also fail to disable one of the multitudes of security features that piggyback on the windows defender services.
If you disable windows defender and fail to disable something that uses it as a dependency when one of those kicks in it will re-enable defender, so if you or anybody else is trying to disable windows defender and fails to disable all things that use it as a dependency it will turn itself back on.
But if you really want to disable defender and all its subsets I highly recommend using a different OS, by the time you have them all off you would probably be safer surfing the web with XP.
But to keep defender off you also need to disable all Code Integrity (HVCI) features, the vulnerable driver block lists, credential guard, LSA code isolation, phishing protection, smart screen, windows hello, and probably a half dozen other I can't come up with off the top of my head.
 
and yet before 22H2 all I had to do was disable it in group policy and it stayed disabled indefinitely

but go on
 
One step forward, one step back. Problem is any added Enterprise-specific GPOs handy to an IT admin don't excuse the user-hostile removals and changes elsewhere.

Windows 10 was bad in the beginning for half tested updates pulling the rug out on working systems overnight with forced updates, but they calmed down later on. Windows 11 they're back at it again, as well as looking at telemetry to see which tweaks too many users are using that ignore or go subvert features MS wants people to use.

This is an OS in a constant state of flux, where an update has to be approached not with enthusiasm but more like handling a scorpion with barbecue tongs.
I've actually been finding that most of the GPOs are being made redundant by the Intune services through azure online, really pushing for the O365 subscriptions there.
I haven't used a consumer release of Windows since Vista though and even then I purchased the Enterprise licensing through the University I was at so, I am a little outdated as to what they are doing there.
 
and yet before 22H2 all I had to do was disable it in group policy and it stayed disabled indefinitely

but go on
Because it didn't have those other features, so turn them off too just check to make sure you've got them all, or stay on 21H2 it's still supported and patched until Oct 10, 2023.
I mean you are complaining something doesn't work, but it's not working because you aren't doing it right.
I'm not even certain why you want to disable it really, but that's your business.
 
I'm complaining that turning Defender Antiivirus off via group policy worked before as intended, now doesn't

Hence neutering group policy as I said
 
I'm complaining that turning Defender Antiivirus off via group policy worked before as intended, now doesn't

Hence neutering group policy as I said
And I’m just disagreeing with you and disabling it works fine you just have to disable all of the new features in 22h2 that use it as a dependency.

Though I suppose it could be frustrating if you wanted the other features but not defender for some reason. Or optionally Microsoft could burry a button to turn all the features off if not a button at least a command in Powershell.

But if Microsoft did that guaranteed they would get sued for it. Microsoft is already facing class action suits for not making it harder for those fake call centres claiming to be Microsoft support.

I mean the sad reality is we live in a world where you can put huge disclaimers on the front of a subject line saying “External Sender” in bright red with box telling them to check the senders identity before providing information or opening links to sites at the top of said email and even in my limited sample size will have a dozen people still fall for obvious scams each week. Who will then turn around and in their embarrassment blame everybody else and their dog for good measure for it happening.

The good of the many usually sucks for the freedoms of the few. So I suppose I can see how that change kind of sucks.
 
And I’m just disagreeing with you and disabling it works fine you just have to disable all of the new features in 22h2 that use it as a dependency.

A setting worked one way before, by enabling that one setting and one setting alone, now it no longer functions as it had, it has been neutered

Pointing to a pile of additional hoops you now have to jump through, over there, does not erase the above. It re-emphasizes it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DPI
like this
A setting worked one way before, by enabling that one setting and one setting alone, now it no longer functions as it had, it has been neutered

Pointing to a pile of additional hoops you now have to jump through, over there, does not erase the above. It re-emphasizes it.
It functions exactly as it has before, if you turn it off it remains off until you do something that requires it to be on, then it turns it back on.
Disable the things that you are using that turn it back on and it will remain off.
 
But you can do that as easily in 11 as you could in any version, except 8... lets's all just give a moment of silence for 8 the best forgotten OS.

And not like it was the best OS everybody forgot, as in the OS that for our collective sanity we should all forget.

True, I was just saying that is what the Start Menu is good for.
 
It functions exactly as it has before, if you turn it off it remains off until you do something that requires it to be on, then it turns it back on.
Disable the things that you are using that turn it back on and it will remain off.

No, before 22H2 if you enabled the 'turn off defender antivirus' in group policy, Windows Defender Antivirus remained permanently off forever without doing anything else at all

Now with 22H2 if you do the above it reenables itself automatically after a set amount of time - IT NEVER DID THAT BEFORE 22H2 DO YOU UNDERSTAND, IT NEVER DID THAT BEFORE 22H2, I REPEAT IT NEVER DID THAT BEFORE 22H2

This is like the 500th time this has been explained to you

In what language is that 'exactly the same functionality'
 
Last edited:
Back
Top