Intel Meteor Lake and Intel 4 on track for 2023

[Lakados]

Intel seems to have caught a break, their Meteor Lake and Intel 4 process are both on track.

TSMC has pushed back their 3nm process and it won’t be going online until Q2 2023 at the earliest. That means AMD will be launching Zen 5 either late, or on TSMC 4, which on paper under performs against Intel 4 like Zen4.That means AMD will be facing off against Apple for the limited TSMC 4nm space or perhaps move to Samsungs 3nm process which is also currently in trouble.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/17366/intel-meteor-lake-client-soc-up-and-running

https://seekingalpha.com/amp/article/4473818-tsmc-3nm-further-delayed

https://www.digitimes.com.tw/tech/dt/n/shwnws.asp?cnlid=1&id=0000629722_6AB67QYM3HNBFV19C4K7R

https://wccftech.com/tsmc-strugglin...h-might-affect-production-suggest-rumors/amp/

https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-3nm-3154453/

 

[N4CR]

Under performs? AMD and the 5800X3d is the fastest gaming CPU out by a cats whisker and its on ddr4 and an old platform with an old process underneath. If anything, Intel is underperforming but that's not something shareholders posting here will admit.

Also after the last few years of Intel pr statements being totally untrustworthy regarding processes or dates, I can't trust anything they say until I see it on the shelf. Raja AMD gpu division was not so well liked for this approach in past. I also remember Intel having a better process on paper in recent times, while the usual Intel guys laughed when I mentioned a big advantage in sram cell size to TSMC. Look what AMD did with that advantage, they packed a tonne of cache in their designs as a result and embarrassed Intel. Current power figures are also a large delta in many situations, sometimes with Intel using double for similar performance.

Less talk, more walk is what Intel needs to do. Gate sizes are only but a part of the puzzle these days, great for pr dick stroking though!

 

[Lakados]

TSMC 7 is better than Intel 7 hands down, and TSMC 5 will be better still. But the delay is going to force Apple to stay on TSMC 4 instead of moving to 3. Which means Zen 5 will either have to move to Samsung 3 or AMD will have to bid against Apple for fab time on TSMC 4.

Intel 4 on paper looks to be better than TSMC 3nm. Intel and TSMC are both pretty sure that Intel is going to retake the node advantage at that point.

Samsung 3nm is only marginally better than TSMC 4 and currently is plagued by terrible yields and is thought to be even behind TSMC 3nm in terms of actual readiness.

I’m regards to TSMC’s 3D v-cache tech that is a marvel and is an awesome thing. It’s also a technology that TSMC struggles with and will only be on select Zen4 chips not across the entire range.

 

[DukenukemX]

TSMC 7 is better than Intel 7 hands down, and TSMC 5 will be better still. But the delay is going to force Apple to stay on TSMC 4 instead of moving to 3. Which means Zen 5 will either have to move to Samsung 3 or AMD will have to bid against Apple for fab time on TSMC 4.

Good chance the Apple M2 will be built on TSMC 4, because without it they won't be getting much increased power efficiency. AMD might make use of their chiplet design to make the most out of what little TSMC 4 they can outbid Apple for. They can use TSMC 7 for the I/O die. For now AMD is probably going to use 5nm for their upcoming Zen 4.

Intel 4 on paper looks to be better than TSMC 3nm. Intel and TSMC are both pretty sure that Intel is going to retake the node advantage at that point.

You keep saying on paper but Intel 4 is just 7nm. Big upgrade from 10nm but still behind what even Apple is using for their M1.

 

[Lakados]

You keep saying on paper but Intel 4 is just 7nm. Big upgrade from 10nm but still behind what even Apple is using for their M1

Not according to TSMC and Intel. TSMC told their investors last year that when Intel launches the Intel 4 platform they expect to loose the node advantage.

Nobody’s node name and node size actually match and haven’t since like 22nm. It all pretty arbitrary.

AMD committed to Global Foundries 12nm process for their IO dyes until 2025, changing that would be problematic. But I wish they would, AMD’s memory controller portion of the dye needs a decent overhaul and last I checked was responsible for about 30% of the chips power consumption. And their Ram access scheduler is less than the best.

 

[wandplus]

If I wanted a new machine I'd be looking for this because I see the last three generations as sort of "survival machines" until those chips arrive.

 

[Armenius]

Good chance the Apple M2 will be built on TSMC 4, because without it they won't be getting much increased power efficiency. AMD might make use of their chiplet design to make the most out of what little TSMC 4 they can outbid Apple for. They can use TSMC 7 for the I/O die. For now AMD is probably going to use 5nm for their upcoming Zen 4.

You keep saying on paper but Intel 4 is just 7nm. Big upgrade from 10nm but still behind what even Apple is using for their M1.

"Just 7nm" doesn't mean anything with the marketing games everybody plays. All that matters is transistor density. Intel 7 (10 nm) was almost as dense as TSMC N7+ (7nm). According to Intel, Intel 4 will be 202-250 million transistors per square millimeter, which would make it at least twice as dense as TSMC's best 7nm process.

 

[Gideon]

Yeah let me know when they have actual working silicon, that took a lot longer then they thought last time.

 

[Armenius]

Yeah let me know when they have actual working silicon, that took a lot longer then they thought last time.

Meteor Lake taped out almost a year ago. They're producing high-risk chips right now, which is what the link in the OP is referencing, and mass production for consumer chips will start sometime this quarter. It took long the last time because Intel were having trouble getting their EUV process up and running, so 10nm went through several revisions working around that.

 

[Gideon]

Meteor Lake taped out almost a year ago. They're producing high-risk chips right now, which is what the link in the OP is referencing, and mass production for consumer chips will start sometime this quarter. It took long the last time because Intel were having trouble getting their EUV process up and running, so 10nm went through several revisions working around that.

Like I said, will see. Last time they said they were ready all they could produce for the first run were less then stellar chips. Will know more when the leaks start to show up on it's performance.