NVIDIA Bans Reviewer for Concentrating on Rasterization Instead of Ray Tracing

What it is going to do:
I wont actively recommend an NVidia card nor justify their position in the gaming charts.
I will avoid saying anything that shows them in a good light.
My participation will be when I have a problem or helping others with problems.
They have done themselves a huge disservice, we stand against this crap.

This is very sad and I'm sad its necessary to have to do this!
(3090 owner)
Yet you admit to owning a 3090... if it was that important to you, GPP would have kept you from buying a $1500 Nvidia product. Suggesting you won't tell the plebs you know to buy Nvidia anymore rings pretty freaking hollow when you own their current Halo product. lol

Sort of feels like Celebrities telling people to cut their emissions for the good of the planet... while flying private jets. Its ok for me... but you should all take a stand. lol
 
NVIDIA buying ARM, and selling direct to miners, they just caring less and less about the gaming market?
 
Yet you admit to owning a 3090... if it was that important to you, GPP would have kept you from buying a $1500 Nvidia product. Suggesting you won't tell the plebs you know to buy Nvidia anymore rings pretty freaking hollow when you own their current Halo product. lol

Sort of feels like Celebrities telling people to cut their emissions for the good of the planet... while flying private jets. Its ok for me... but you should all take a stand. lol
I didnt intend to buy a 3090, I will stop here except to say, I felt it necessary to point out that their top card buyers are just as pissed with NVidia as everyone else.
You dont know me or my reasoning, I wont be spelling out anything here.
If you become unpleasant I will give you a difficult a time.
 
I didnt intend to buy a 3090, I will stop here except to say, I felt it necessary to point out that their top card buyers are just as pissed with NVidia as everyone else.
You dont know me or my reasoning, I wont be spelling out anything here.
If you become unpleasant I will give you a difficult a time.
Fair... sorry I know my post sounded pretty damn harsh. In general it simply feels like most of the most outraged by Nvidias BS (this isn't the first or even worst example in the past year or two) also seem to be the people lining up for their stuff launch day. We all understand wanting to own the best and fastest crap here. My bad for being a bit of a dick to you specifically.
o7
 
the Hardware Unboxed guys have made it known in multiple videos that they are not fans of ray-tracing so it's not surprising that they are focusing on rasterisation...sad to see Nvidia relying on these bullying type of tactics...that's what happens when AMD catches up and puts Nvidia on their heels
That is incorrect. They are not a fan of the performance it brings. It it today a mostly useless feature. I would rather have straight up performance imo. And I know a lot of other peopple feel the same way.
 
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I like Hardware Unboxed. I have no friggin' clue what they're talking about, but between the accents and that epic '70s porn 'stache, well, I just can't get enough. ;)

Seriously, they do a great job and I love their presentation and approach. Now, they've shot up even higher in my estimation. Hell, I'm gonna search and see if I can use a link on their site to purchase my next AMD gpu. Take that, Nvidia.
 
Bout damn time. Given the amount of shilling they do for AMD, Intel and Nvidia should've done this years ago! That channel doesn't even deserve a free i3 sample lol!
Care to back that up, cupcake?

Who cares what the company does to a reviewer as long as their product is good?
When there are only hardware "influencers" left, where will you turn for GPU reviews to base your purchasing decision on?
 
Okay, perhaps I posted it wrong. Everyone compares this move by nvidia to gpp. What is gpp?!(I'm so getting banned for asking again probably)

Not everyone was around a few years ago when this was a major issue. No shame in that.

Kyle addressed it best in his head on articles on the front page, but unfortunately those are no longer with us. (or are they?)

Geforce Partner Program Impacts Customer Choice (HardOCP Front Page 08-Mar-2018)

Nvidia Starts Disinformation Campaign (HardOCP Front Page 18-Apr-2018)
 
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I miss when forums moved as fast as chat rooms.

There is only one community of a forums (not here) that do that now sadly.
 
No surprises.... nVidia has a really long history of scummy anti-competitive behavior. I think Adored did a succinct documentary on this.
I decided about a decade ago that I would just suffer with AMD always being a generation behind, and adjusted my game buying accordingly (still haven't gotten around to playing Witcher 3 yet). The fact that AMD has just about pulled up even now is a pleasant miracle!
/The fact that GPUs sell for the cost of a used car is craziness though, and catering constantly to 'whales' is probably not long term sustainable for the industry :/
 
Well that’s a shame. I guess Hardware Unboxed is done for now. They couldn’t possibly have any other way of obtaining a card without Nvidia handing it to them.I mean, it’s not like they have a strong base of viewers who give them money....
It is not just cost it is access, if your competition has the cards 2 weeks before you their content will either be much better and much sooner, I imagine views on hardware reviews are extremely frontloaded.

$4,500 a month from Patreons is nice, but I imagine they still depends on views a lot.

Reviews are for us, the consumers. We want reviews to reflect what most people do with their GPUs, If the vast majority doesn't care about RT yet, then it shouldn't be the primary focus.............
It's not that hard Nvidia.
Well yes they can still do reviews if they want. Has for being for the consumers, if you are a not paying anything, ask yourself if you are the "customer"

NVidia partner with reviewer and give them access/hardware (i.e. money in a sense) to be promoter of their products.

Reviews are for them has well (that why they participate) has a promotion tool, that why there is a dance between the 3 interested party, consumers/reviewers/hardware sellers.

And they each need to play their side strongly (consumer should not give money/click to reviewer that accept to play too much into hardware sellers scripts, has much as they can reviewer should accept no gift if they can and play the least as possible script from hardware company, hardware company have to weight the price paid by blacking out bad reviews with how much they like them when they end up good).

In the current environnement, the entity that reviews are so incredibly weak (specially in wait list existing even before the reviews that have ridiculous embargo anyway), that unless they all have solidarity together and decide to not mention an NVIDIA product again in any contain until they reverse that decision (even then....), hardware sellers have the big side of the bat. We could just imagine how long the list of blacklisted reviewers Apple has.
 
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I see Nvidia also putting doubt for the readers on the other sites reviews, if they ban well respected sites with review samples, in which Hardware Unboxed did indebt RT discussions, impact with their reasoning, Nvidia obviously trying to control the narrative, makes everyone else getting a card come into question even if real or not.

Does Nvidia also tell the AIB partners to not send review samples to their hit sites as well?
 
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It is not just cost it is access, if your competition has the cards 2 weeks before you their content will either be much better and much sooner, I imagine views on hardware reviews are extremely frontloaded.

$4,500 a month from Patreons is nice, but I imagine they still depends on views a lot.


Well yes they can still do reviews if they want.

NVidia partner with reviewer and give them access/hardware (i.e. money in a sense) to be promoter of their products.

Reviews are for them has well (that why they participate) has a promotion tool, that why there is a dance between the 3 interested party, consumers/reviewers/hardware sellers.

And they each need to play their side strongly (consumer should not give money/click to reviewer that accept to play too much into hardware sellers scripts, has much as they can reviewer should accept no gift if they can and play the least as possible script from hardware company, hardware company have to weight the price paid by blacking out bad reviews with how much they like them when they end up good).

In the current environnement, the entity that reviews are so incredibly weak (specially in wait list existing even before the reviews that have ridiculous embargo anyway), that unless they all have solidarity together and decide to not mention an NVIDIA product again in any contain until they reverse that decision (even then....), hardware sellers have the big side of the bat. We could just imagine how long the list of blacklisted reviewers Apple has.
In this case, since most people wanting a card could not get them, either from AMD or Nvidia. A delayed, better researched, honest review would probably stand out loud and clear above other manipulated ones. I think reviews stand on their own merrits and the reputation from the site will carry them through, in Hardware Unboxed case they will probably get more views as time goes on due to their competence and honesty.
 
Lots of hate going on. Not really sure it is justified.

So this youtube reviewer will no longer get FREE video cards from Nvidia to review. Big whoop?

I want fair, unbiased, honest reviews. Nvidia want's fair treatment as well. Without having watched any of this guys reviews, maybe he was not fair?

It doesn't matter WHAT company you are. If you send hardware and someone just repeatedly slams it, or you feel doesn't give it a fair shake, you will likely discontinue sending them samples. Doesn't mean they can't review it, just that the review will come out later and they have to buy it themselves. Those youtubers are a business, this is all part of doing business.

I want fair reviews. You want fair reviews. The concern is that Nvidia might be trying to "force a good review", but I think 1 youtuber being denied free cards isn't a big deal, or proof of that. I watch GN reviews, they are my new goto after [H] shut down. Steve at GN says what he thinks REGULARLY and consistently in his reviews. Nvidia still sends him parts...

Which is why to me, 1 youtuber not getting review samples = I don't care. If Nvidia did this to GN I would be more suspect. AMD does the same thing, where's the outrage??
 
That is exactly what I am describing. You purchased based on value or performance. Nvidia, as despicable as they had been, had performance.

Now, AMD has value or performance and you are purchasing based on that. It makes it easier to justify the purchase because of Nvidia shenanigans but that is not the driving factor.
If the Radeon 6XXX series had been an absolute dud, I would guess you probably would have bought Nvidia again.
When the rubber hits the road, the corporate ethics point goes out the road in favor of value or performance.

And I'm not calling you out, I have bought intel many times after the anticompetitive BS they have pulled over the years.

IIRC, even Kyle has a 2080Ti and Nvidia was trying to fuck him after GPP story. ;) [H]arders are enthusiasts and we want performance over almost everything else.
Agreed.

But we remember. And when we do have a real choice, we choose "anyone else".

This type of behavior is very shortsighted.
 
Lots of hate going on. Not really sure it is justified.

So this youtube reviewer will no longer get FREE video cards from Nvidia to review. Big whoop?

I want fair, unbiased, honest reviews. Nvidia want's fair treatment as well. Without having watched any of this guys reviews, maybe he was not fair?

It doesn't matter WHAT company you are. If you send hardware and someone just repeatedly slams it, or you feel doesn't give it a fair shake, you will likely discontinue sending them samples. Doesn't mean they can't review it, just that the review will come out later and they have to buy it themselves. Those youtubers are a business, this is all part of doing business.

I want fair reviews. You want fair reviews. The concern is that Nvidia might be trying to "force a good review", but I think 1 youtuber being denied free cards isn't a big deal. I watch GN reviews, they are my new goto after [H] shut down. Steve at GN says what he thinks REGULARLY and consistently in his reviews. Nvidia still sends him parts...

Which is why to me, 1 youtuber not getting review samples = I don't care. If Nvidia did this to GN I would be more suspect. AMD does the same thing, where's the outrage??
sure Nvidia wants fair treatment but strong arming peeps is not the way to do it

automakers do the same thing as well. wine and dine and that is why you never hear them say that FCA cars are poop because as soon as they do say it... oops no more review car for you...
 
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Lots of hate going on. Not really sure it is justified.

So this youtube reviewer will no longer get FREE video cards from Nvidia to review. Big whoop?

I want fair, unbiased, honest reviews. Nvidia want's fair treatment as well. Without having watched any of this guys reviews, maybe he was not fair?

It doesn't matter WHAT company you are. If you send hardware and someone just repeatedly slams it, or you feel doesn't give it a fair shake, you will likely discontinue sending them samples. Doesn't mean they can't review it, just that the review will come out later and they have to buy it themselves. Those youtubers are a business, this is all part of doing business.

I want fair reviews. You want fair reviews. The concern is that Nvidia might be trying to "force a good review", but I think 1 youtuber being denied free cards isn't a big deal, or proof of that. I watch GN reviews, they are my new goto after [H] shut down. Steve at GN says what he thinks REGULARLY and consistently in his reviews. Nvidia still sends him parts...

Which is why to me, 1 youtuber not getting review samples = I don't care. If Nvidia did this to GN I would be more suspect. AMD does the same thing, where's the outrage??
Watch some of their reviews, they are very good, reasoning is all up front, they make corrections when they discover something or come to a different conclusion. If I was a company, making computer products and I think I have the cat's meow, this would be the site I would give samples to.
 
The youtuber can still do or say whatever he wants on his channel... He just isn't getting free parts. Strong arming? If Nvidia was suing him, then that would be an appropriate description. They are not.
you heard me right, strong arming as who can get a flagship on release day. most all reviewers get them some time beforehand and are done with their reviews well before launch day... of course you knew that, right?
 
In this case, since most people wanting a card could not get them, either from AMD or Nvidia. A delayed, better researched, honest review would probably stand out loud and clear above other manipulated ones. I think reviews stand on their own merrits and the reputation from the site will carry them through, in Hardware Unboxed case they will probably get more views as time goes on due to their competence and honesty.
It is harder to stand out once it has been weeks with tens of thousand of people having them becoming your competition, the incentive to play game to keep access is great (how many people made some nice presentation of 8K gaming for example, that was a lot of money to say no too), free hardware is nice money when you are a small independant review and the money from the first days of release as well. And people that did early reviews will be able to do more detailed one has well.

Some people keep it quite independent with late reviews like Tech Deals but they do a lot of non-hardware reviews has a business model and if you do not want to go with scalpers it will be very late (is rtx 3080 reviews was nov 11, 2020 for a september 17 release, for a late it could easily mean in today environnement).

It is obviously possible has a model, but it is a much harder (specially when getting with your money hardware day one is a giant challenge now) and expensive one.
 
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The youtuber can still do or say whatever he wants on his channel... He just isn't getting free parts. Strong arming? If Nvidia was suing him, then that would be an appropriate description. They are not.
Not free and quite later in some case, there is zero doubt a company has absolutely not the first moral/legal obligation to send people free stuff in advance, but it is in general a good idea for consumer and the press to force them into doing so (for their own benefit).
 
It is harder to stand out once it has been weeks tens of thousand of people have them, the incentive to play game to keep access is great (how many people presentation of 8K), free hardware is nice money when you are a small independant review and the money from the first days of release as well. And people that did early reviews will be able to do more detailed one has well.

Some people keep it quite independent with late reviews like Tech Deals but they do a lot of non-hardware reviews has a business model and if you do not want to go with scalpers it will be very late (is rtx 3080 reviews was nov 11, 2020 for a september 17 release.

It is obviously possible has a model, but it is a much harder (specially when getting with your money hardware day one is a giant challenge now) and expensive one.
Except at this time that is not the case, a long line of folks wanting to get a card and not able to. Plus most of the cards sold for a generation are not sold the first month or months after launch. A later review if one does not have earlier access can cover stuff not known before, user experiences reported, issues, fixes which would still be appropriate to the ones already owning etc. Gaming benchmarks with new games highlighting for example features and if useful or not. Harder work but also an opportunity and respect that a smarter reviewer would seize on. Day one reviews in most cases fall short, do not catch major issues in many cases, can be manipulated etc. The rat race to get it out also may appear to be beneficial to a site but mistakes due to lack of time, lack of info and evaluation can cause more harm then good I do believe in the long run.
 
Not everyone was around a few years ago when this was a major issue. No shame in that.

Kyle addressed it best in his head on articles on the front page, but unfortunately those are no longer with us. (or are they?)

Geforce Partner Program Impacts Customer Choice (HardOCP Front Page 08-Mar-2018)

Nvidia Starts Disinformation Campaign (HardOCP Front Page 18-Apr-2018)
Just got through reading, geez what a shitstorm, I imagine Kyle had a few sleepless nights around that time.
I never even heard of GPP until now, and to think this is still a thing is mind blowing, definitely an anticomptiveness lawsuit there somewhere.
 
The youtuber can still do or say whatever he wants on his channel... He just isn't getting free parts. Strong arming? If Nvidia was suing him, then that would be an appropriate description. They are not.

This would be a problem even in normal times, but it is an especially big problem when no one can buy these damned things. By controlling who can get samples based on what they say, they are ensuyring they only get positive press at launch, and that is all anyone really remembers.

Review samples ALWAYS need to be provided equally with no strings attached, otherwise the reviews are pointless, just a form of marketing.

I would argue that the fact that they even TRY to provide a reviewers guide is a problem.

The smoke and mirrors and trying to control the message needs to stop. Marketing needs to get their filthy hands off of the review process, otherwise the review process is nothing but a sham.
 
Just got through reading, geez what a shitstorm, I imagine Kyle had a few sleepless nights around that time.
I never even heard of GPP until now, and to think this is still a thing is mind blowing, definitely an anticomptiveness lawsuit there somewhere.

As a long time HardOCP reader, I get the impression Kyle thrives on these fights and probably misses them :p

He always seemed to get a twinkle in his eye (at least from what I can tell via the internet) whenever a chance of muckracking arose. :p
 
When I do upgrade in Q1/Q2 I was honestly thinking about a 3080/3080 ti as it has similar performance with the added benefit of DLSS and superior RT performance. This behavior makes the 6800xt the way to go for me right now.
 
The youtuber can still do or say whatever he wants on his channel... He just isn't getting free parts. Strong arming? If Nvidia was suing him, then that would be an appropriate description. They are not.

Techtubers, just like techjournalists, are quite dependant on early review copies to get their reviews out the moment NDA lifts and the item is hot and people are mass consuming reviews for information. Without those review copies they limited to purchasing the product after it gets released to the public (getting RTX3000 units for a review would have been a god damn mess). Also making good reviews takes time, they get their reviews out after the initial wave of excitement wears off, which does reduce the amount of views they get from general public.

No, this is not a deathblow for them but it is a nasty blow none the less.
 
The smoke and mirrors and trying to control the message needs to stop. Marketing needs to get their filthy hands off of the review process, otherwise the review process is nothing but a sham.
For that reviewer need to stop to accept any form of early access and hardware from them, accepting anything of them is almost by default accepting to be considered by company part of the marketing machine. You will otherwise only receive hardware if you play ball or from people that have no choice (i.e. Apple can easily skip you)

Easy if you would cover hardware for a major publication that pay you a salary no matter what happen (same goes for movies, easy to say critics should never accept a ticket price/plane/hotel to a festival or go to party or interview anyone involved when they do review for the NYTimes than if they are self employed living off clicks or else they become reviewers instead with all that goes with it), if you are an independent reviewer and many other accept, it is hard to pass on it, some do too.
 
That said, I still reluctantly continued to buy Nvidia GPU's because at the time there was no viable alternative from anyone else. I needed a GPU to help me power through 4K ultra settings at a minimum frame rate of 60fps, and nothing AMD or anyone else offered came even close.
Cant fault this, this is my goal as well. I would say that no offering by NVIDIA or AMD could really hold 60 fps with all the bells and whistles at 4k until now. That made grabbing a 5700xt as an upgrade to my 980ti much easier.
 
Techtubers, just like techjournalists, are quite dependant on early review copies to get their reviews out the moment NDA lifts and the item is hot and people are mass consuming reviews for information. Without those review copies they limited to purchasing the product after it gets released to the public (getting RTX3000 units for a review would have been a god damn mess). Also making good reviews takes time, they get their reviews out after the initial wave of excitement wears off, which does reduce the amount of views they get from general public.

No, this is not a deathblow for them but it is a nasty blow none the less.

I agree, and to me it doesn't matter whether or not they are successful in silencing dissent. It is the attempt that matters.

You don't give an attempted bank robber a pass just because they weren't successful.
 
Hardware Unboxed is my first stop on review day. Steve does excellent work when it comes to GPU.

They weren't really on my radar before, but they certainly jumped up my rankings after hearing this.

Any site that tells it how it is, not how the marketing departments want them to will get my attention.
 
Okay, perhaps I posted it wrong. Everyone compares this move by nvidia to gpp. What is gpp?!(I'm so getting banned for asking again probably)

Deleted, because I see that UltraTaco figured it out. That means my explanation, using salsa verde, quesadillas, and fresh vs. frozen guacamole isn't needed. But everyone likes good molle.

It was an epic analogy. Now? Well, without the "ogy", it just seems...anal.

;)
 
This will affect NVIDIA's bottom line. As many have said it is different this time around. In general, your average enthusiast views the 6800 xt and the 3080 as a tie and they will pick up the first one of those that becomes available if they need a card now. It feels fishy to me. I think NVIDIA knows they will not be able to ship parts on par with AMD in the next couple of months and they are trying to convince people to wait. If AMD can get it together to get AIB prices near msrp and can get units into gamers hands they will win the review war and grab a huge chunk of market share. Right now it is a dead heat of shit launches. That narrative changes with whoever hits the shelves with more GPU's. Could NVIDIA just have let us know they are screwed?
 
That's messed up. Yet another black eye for the green eyed monster.

That kinda makes me not want to purchase their products.
 
Steve at hardware unboxed is one of the best GPU/CPU reviewers right now. I was thinking I might make a 3060TI my next video card purchase. This definitely gives me pause. nVidia's moves have all been pretty anti-consumer for a while now, from the Geforce experience spyware, to the grossly inflated prices on their product lines along with miniscule memory size increases. Thank God AMD is finally starting to get their shit together. Hopefully Navi 22 is performant or the price of Navi 21 cards comes into line with what it should be.
Nvidia has been anti customer since it's inception. They've monopolized the consumer graphics industry.
 
In 6-10 years time ray tracing is going to be great, as of right now rasterisation is still king.

The ban is also rather confusing as Steve was saying the new Nvidia cards were good (but pricey) and had benched a lot of ray tracing. He also pointed out how bad AMD is at ray tracing currently.

Maybe the ban has more to do with HU dumping on Nvidia for availability and the prices being much higher than MSRP. If I hadn’t cancelled my 3080 msrp preorder because I wanted more than 10gb, I’d still be waiting for my card. I’ll be getting a 6800xt if I can find one at msrp.
 
That's messed up. Yet another black eye for the green eyed monster.

That kinda makes me not want to purchase their products.

You know it is stuff like this,
  • and GPP, and driver blocking the use of PhysX acceleration with secondary GPU's if the primary GPU wasn't an Nvidia GPU
  • locking in people using the proprietary G-Sync VRR standard so that once they buy a monitor, they are forced to continue buying Nvidia GPU's or lose the VRR feature
  • providing Hairworks/Gameworks API's that favor their hardware in early stage game development, so that titles run worse on the competitions GPU's once launched
  • trying to force review sites to sign perpetual NDA's in order to get treview samples, legally blocking them from doing tech journalism down the road

...and more than I am not thinking of right now, that is th ereason why I was so alarmed when I heard Nvidia was trying to buy ARM.

The ARM acquisition gives NVidia A LOT of power, and they have time and time again shown that they will use every dirty abusive trick in the book, and that unethical business practices that might even make Intel blush is part of their standard operating procedure that shows they are the WORST POSSIBLE steward of ARM, a technology that an entire industry depends on.

No corporation is your friend. They are all in it to maximize profits for their shareholders. That is their legal requirement, and it is true, but some behave better than others.
  • Nvidia is completely unethical and rotten to the core, and cannot be trusted in the slightest.
  • Let's also not forget about Intel. Sure they haven't had any unethical activities in the press lately, but I doubt the company has fundamentally changed since the bad old days of bribing OEM's to block AMD and intentionally manipulating their compiler so compiled code works worse on non-intel platforms.
  • AMD is certainly not your friend, no corporation is, but at least for now they have decided that openness, supporting open standards, being transparent and not trying to manipulate the market provides better press and they should be rewarded for it.
 
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