Apple to pay $113M settlement over its iPhone 'batterygate' slowdowns

erek

erek

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Messages
10,871
""We have never -- and would never -- do anything to intentionally shorten the life of any Apple product, or degrade the user experience to drive customer upgrades. Our goal has always been to create products that our customers love, and making iPhones last as long as possible is an important part of that," Apple said at the time. "We know that some of you feel Apple has let you down. We apologize."

Still, lawsuits and investigations followed. In March of this year, Apple agreed to pay up to $500 million to settle a class-action lawsuit, in which the company agreed to pay customers $25 per iPhone, with a minimum payout of $310 million. It covered current and former iPhone owners in the US who had an iPhone 6, 6 Plus, 6S, 6S Plus or SE running iOS 12.2.1 or later. It also covered the iPhone 7 and 7 Plus running iOS 11.2 or later before Dec. 21, 2017.

At the time, Joseph Cotchett, co-lead counsel for the plaintiffs, said in a statement that "the settlement provides substantial relief to Apple consumers and, going forward, will help ensure that customers are fully informed when asked to update their products." Apple denied any wrongdoing."

https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-to-pay-113-million-settlement-over-its-iphone-batterygate-slowdowns/
 
Meh, this was one of those management QoS issues that happens all the time. Was it frustrating yeah but it’s hard to prove they acted with any sort of malice. Bad batteries give a bad experience, if they had simply had the phone generate a pop-up notification saying a problem was detected with the battery than given them the option of turning it on and provide a number for support on a replacement battery they would have avoided the whole issue.
This was a silly management decision with a poor implementation on what is actually a good idea.
 
Lakados said:
Meh, this was one of those management QoS issues that happens all the time. Was it frustrating yeah but it’s hard to prove they acted with any sort of malice. Bad batteries give a bad experience, if they had simply had the phone generate a pop-up notification saying a problem was detected with the battery than given them the option of turning it on and provide a number for support on a replacement battery they would have avoided the whole issue.
This was a silly management decision with a poor implementation on what is actually a good idea.
Click to expand...
Nah, this is Apple pushing people to buy the newer and faster products. The only good idea here was how much money Apple made from this.
 
UnknownSouljer said:
Okay. Well I guess that’s literally every phone manufacturer ever then as literally all li-ion batteries suffer degradation. They all must be in a cabal together.

https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-slow-down-fine-2018-917806/
Click to expand...
No, they are all now taking cues from Apple. When Android phones first hit the market, they all had user-replaceable batteries. That was one of the selling points for Android...

... "Was" being the key word in that last sentence.

Android phone makers are copying Apple's "Take away features and call it an upgrade" business model. I really wish people would just stop buying into it. Because people don't seem to give 2 shits about buying a new phone every 1 to 2 years, we have these disposable-phone design trends. Companies are more than happy to push the limits of what people will put up with, and right now, it seems there are no bounds. I blame the people buying these phones when companies are basically saying;

"We just caaaaan't seem to fit a headphone jack or SD card slot on our phones anymore, but we'll sell you a dongle and/or some bluetooth earbuds, or charge you $100-200 more for $10 more worth of storage! Or, just sign up for our "cloud" service, the first 3 leaks of your personal lewd pics are included in the $5 monthly fee! And how are we supposed to make a removable battery when our phones must ABSOLUTELY have a glass back? No, we don't acknowledge that over 90% of people put their phones in a case anyway. That glass back isn't just for 'Unbox Therapy' style 10-minute Youtube reviews, we swear! ...By the way, the new phone costs $200 more than last year's model... But look, it has fingerprint sensors on every single surface (whether you want them or not) and it is able to hear your heartbeat from across the room and upload it to Google/Apple's database. Now our tech overlords can have even more metrics to identify you, track you, and put ads for CPAP machines on every webpage you visit ... Don't let anyone tell you that your friendly neighborhood trillion-dollar companies don't care about you. We treat ALL our livestock as if they're our most prized heifer!"

Wake up... buy used... and quit giving them your money every 1-2 years.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
The moral of the story here is: Just fucking tell your customers what you're doing and stop blowing smoke up the world's collective asshole, big tech.
Click to expand...
That's the thing that gets me. People like to cry "conspiracy!" because it fits their anti-Apple obsessions, but the real issue isn't that Apple was throttling — it's that Apple didn't clearly tell people what it was doing or give an option to override it. It might have been well-intentioned, but its "we know best" mindset backfired by letting people speculate that throttling was part of a sinister plot to spur early upgrades.
 
Tree-fiddy? That's when I started to get suspicious.
1605811658393.png
 
Nside said:
No, they are all now taking cues from Apple. When Android phones first hit the market, they all had user-replaceable batteries. That was one of the selling points for Android...

... "Was" being the key word in that last sentence.

Android phone makers are copying Apple's "Take away features and call it an upgrade" business model. I really wish people would just stop buying into it. Because people don't seem to give 2 shits about buying a new phone every 1 to 2 years, we have these disposable-phone design trends. Companies are more than happy to push the limits of what people will put up with, and right now, it seems there are no bounds. I blame the people buying these phones when companies are basically saying;
Click to expand...
You can blame whoever you want to make yourself feel better. The bottom line is Samsung isn't Apple. Google isn't Apple. OnePlus isn't Apple. Nor is any other Android manufacturer Apple.
They all have made their own individual choices to build phones the way they have. It seems to me you're way more interested in shifting and assigning blame than actually holding the decision makers accountable.

So it's none of the builders faults. It's the consumers fault. It's not the consumers fault, it's Apple's fault. Lets deny any form of responsibility. Obviously Apple is responsible for all the design decisions in Android phones. Well if we're doing that then we should say truly then that Android literally copies everything from Apple no? Android is the least innovative and they do nothing without decision makers from Apple right? So it seems to me everyone should just buy an Apple product then rather than buy a product that's coming in second or third hand design wise.

As soon as you acknowledge that that isn't the case, you also acknowledge Apple isn't responsible for any (what you perceive to be) negative choices done on phones. You can't have it both ways. Well I guess you can, but that also makes you a hypocrite in your analysis.
Nside said:
"We just caaaaan't seem to fit a headphone jack or SD card slot on our phones anymore, but we'll sell you a dongle and/or some bluetooth earbuds, or charge you $100-200 more for $10 more worth of storage! Or, just sign up for our "cloud" service, the first 3 leaks of your personal lewd pics are included in the $5 monthly fee! And how are we supposed to make a removable battery when our phones must ABSOLUTELY have a glass back? No, we don't acknowledge that over 90% of people put their phones in a case anyway. That glass back isn't just for 'Unbox Therapy' style 10-minute Youtube reviews, we swear! ...By the way, the new phone costs $200 more than last year's model... But look, it has fingerprint sensors on every single surface (whether you want them or not) and it is able to hear your heartbeat from across the room and upload it to Google/Apple's database. Now our tech overlords can have even more metrics to identify you, track you, and put ads for CPAP machines on every webpage you visit ... Don't let anyone tell you that your friendly neighborhood trillion-dollar companies don't care about you. We treat ALL our livestock as if they're our most prized heifer!"
Click to expand...
You're seriously bitter about a lot of stuff. I'd perhaps suggest that maybe tech isn't for you. Maybe pick up some other hobbies and time sinks. Maybe you'd be happier blowing all your money on fishing rods and golf clubs.
Nside said:
Wake up... buy used... and quit giving them your money every 1-2 years.
Click to expand...
You can do whatever you want just like these other consumers can do whatever they want. It sounds to me that you're more upset by people having agency and making choices you wouldn't make. Seriously, live your life - you're putting way too much energy into something that literally doesn't affect you at all.
 
"We have never -- and would never -- do anything to intentionally shorten the life of any Apple product, or degrade the user experience to drive customer upgrades."
However they do not guarantee any updates that they push that are meant to enhance the newest products won't have any adverse side effects on old products... which very often is the most obvious case of what goes on.

That said $25 per iPhone... wow what a fucking racket, even if they were caught doing something bad, the only have to refund $25 off phones that cost anywhere from $500 to $1200 ... dunno why but I'm just envisioning the policy of companies paying millions in fines for doing something "wrong" but making billions for doing the wrong thing.
 
I think that a case where battery life being a major component of a phone was easy enough to argue that it was not made to degrade the experience and drive customer upgrades (an argument could be made that short battery life would have degraded the experience more and driven more upgrade, you can pretty much always deal with lower performance but not necessarily with battery life).

The not giving the option to change the setting (or a level) in the very it just work apple way is probably what got them in trouble, but that their usual way not something they went out of their way to do that prove any ill intend.
 
sfsuphysics said:
"We have never -- and would never -- do anything to intentionally shorten the life of any Apple product, or degrade the user experience to drive customer upgrades."
However they do not guarantee any updates that they push that are meant to enhance the newest products won't have any adverse side effects on old products... which very often is the most obvious case of what goes on.

That said $25 per iPhone... wow what a fucking racket, even if they were caught doing something bad, the only have to refund $25 off phones that cost anywhere from $500 to $1200 ... dunno why but I'm just envisioning the policy of companies paying millions in fines for doing something "wrong" but making billions for doing the wrong thing.
Click to expand...

Sadly I think its no longer a case of right vs wrong for most companies but instead a case of "can we make more than we will lose in the lawsuit?"
 
Back in the day I had an iPhone 4, which was pretty amazing when I got it. I remember running all sorts of tech demos on it and being blown away by the performance.

After a couple of years even basic navigation became unbearably sluggish and simple actions like clicking on things would take several seconds to register. I complained, and people told me that my "old" phone simply couldn't handle all the complex features from all the iOS updates. I called BS on this and explained that the hardware should still be perfectly fine, and that if basic OS updates were making it so sluggish then Apple was writing really crappy software. I countered with a conspiracy that they were intentionally slowing down phones via iOS updates in order to "motivate" us to upgrade. Everybody said I was just being paranoid...

I ended up switching to a Samsung phone instead. A couple of months later Apple got caught doing exactly what I said they were doing. It's pretty obvious they came up with this "we did it for the battery life" story to cover their asses. Samsung ended up releasing a press release decrying Apple and claiming that they'd never do that to their own phones. Ironically, they then got caught doing the exact same thing.

Now I'm on a Google Pixel 3. I wonder how long it'll be before this phone gets throttled as well...
 
UnknownSouljer said:
Okay. Well I guess that’s literally every phone manufacturer ever then as literally all li-ion batteries suffer degradation. They all must be in a cabal together.

https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-slow-down-fine-2018-917806/
Click to expand...
Believe it or not, other companies can be greedy asssholes like Apple. Samsung is one of them as they tend to copy any greedy new practice that Apple comes out with. Samsung phones are one of the worst Android phones to own. Not only does some Samsung phones not have SD Card slots and headphone jacks, but yes they can slow down phones when the battery starts to go bad. Most modern phones don't allow you to replace the battery easily, and require a lot of work to change them. My HTC10 is one of the worst phones to ever change the battery. Not only do I always break the screen removing it, but I still have to remove the mid section while the cable for the screen is still connected. You have to carefully pry apart the mid section and then you can seperate it and still the cable to the screen is connected. Once the cable is disconnected you can begin to remove the battery and replace it. Most Apple devices are super easy to work on, including the battery replacement. Two screws and you can lift up the screen and the battery is right there. Disconnect the cable and you just pry out the battery since it's glued. Not as easy as my old HTC Desire Z, where I only need my two fucking hands to remove it.

But I can't help imagine that this whole issue was started because Apple and many other Android manufacturers didn't want users to replace the battery, so as to incentivize them to buy new phones. As a consequence to this decision, some batteries would fail prematurely and this left them liable for warranty repair. So to avoid these problems they just throttled the device to give the users the illusion that everything was fine and you don't need to file a warranty claim. Which would have fucked over companies for battery replacement since the batteries can't be removed without tools and a lot of time. They probably still do this but hide it better.
 
DukenukemX said:
Believe it or not, other companies can be greedy asssholes like Apple. Samsung is one of them as they tend to copy any greedy new practice that Apple comes out with. Samsung phones are one of the worst Android phones to own. Not only does some Samsung phones not have SD Card slots and headphone jacks, but yes they can slow down phones when the battery starts to go bad. Most modern phones don't allow you to replace the battery easily, and require a lot of work to change them. My HTC10 is one of the worst phones to ever change the battery. Not only do I always break the screen removing it, but I still have to remove the mid section while the cable for the screen is still connected. You have to carefully pry apart the mid section and then you can seperate it and still the cable to the screen is connected. Once the cable is disconnected you can begin to remove the battery and replace it. Most Apple devices are super easy to work on, including the battery replacement. Two screws and you can lift up the screen and the battery is right there. Disconnect the cable and you just pry out the battery since it's glued. Not as easy as my old HTC Desire Z, where I only need my two fucking hands to remove it.

But I can't help imagine that this whole issue was started because Apple and many other Android manufacturers didn't want users to replace the battery, so as to incentivize them to buy new phones. As a consequence to this decision, some batteries would fail prematurely and this left them liable for warranty repair. So to avoid these problems they just throttled the device to give the users the illusion that everything was fine and you don't need to file a warranty claim. Which would have fucked over companies for battery replacement since the batteries can't be removed without tools and a lot of time. They probably still do this but hide it better.
Click to expand...
Nice rant. But also untrue. The reason for irremovable backs is that most people care more about IP rating than they do about user replaceable batteries. In other words, people care more that their phone survives a drop in a toilet or the sink than whether or not they can replace their battery themselves in two years. The only cost effective way to do that is with glue.

More to the point, there is nothing preventing you taking your phone to a technician and having them replace your battery for you. You'd have a point to your rant if it wasn't possible to do this. $70 may seem like a chunk of money and it is, but considering it extends the life in your phone for another 2 years until that battery degrades seems to me like a worthwhile form of "maintenance" on a $1000 device.

Warranty claims are only valid on non-expendable parts. Generally speaking there is only a limited warranty on batteries. If that wasn't the case regardless of if there was replaceable batteries in phones or not companies would get sued as you say. And yes, they do still throttle phones. Which is the great irony of this entire lawsuit in the first place. Apple has a toggle to turn this off if you so desire now, which you do at your peril. I can't see how anyone would rather have random shutdowns and resets over a slightly slower phone, I know which one is way more frustrating to me, but now the individual user can decide.

I expect fully though that after given all this information you'll chuck it back into just being "controlling" or "anti-consumer" or some such without giving any credence at all that there are multiple sides and perspectives to this. Good job making more things more polarizing though. You've already made your mind up about everything. Your opinions are just props to support your narrative. I fully expect an ad hominem attack and/or another rant about how Apple has done a bunch of terrible stuff and every other phone company is a copy-cat after this.
 
Last edited:
UnknownSouljer said:
As soon as you acknowledge that that isn't the case, you also acknowledge Apple isn't responsible for any (what you perceive to be) negative choices done on phones. You can't have it both ways. Well I guess you can, but that also makes you a hypocrite in your analysis.

You're seriously bitter about a lot of stuff. I'd perhaps suggest that maybe tech isn't for you. Maybe pick up some other hobbies and time sinks. Maybe you'd be happier blowing all your money on fishing rods and golf clubs.
Click to expand...
Let me make this clear, If a company sells a product that stabs you in the eyes with needles, everyone knows this thing stabs you in the eyes with needles, and reviewers and blindly loyal customers (pun intended) say "well it stabs you in the eyes with needles, but I like it anyway!" ... Yes, I blame the customers and reviewers, but I also dislike the company that makes something that stabs you in the eyes with needles.

As for the personal statement, that is most often used to try to dehumanize or demoralize a person who you can't argue with otherwise. In other words, your bluff is showing.

I dislike Apple, Google, MS, Amazon, Oracle, Facebook, Samsung, etc for many reasons, but ultimately they will only make what they can sell. So the burden of responsibility is on the consumer, which I plainly stated. In your magical world of black and white, either the customers do bad things, or the manufacturers do bad things, it can't POSSIBLY be a little (or a lot) of both. Companies are pushing more toward "subscription based services" rather than outright selling products, You have seen that in the enterprise sector for a while now, and you're seeing it creep in to the consumer market mostly with software. Hardware is next, and all of this is just preparing you for the transition. Pretty soon, you won't actually own your cell phone, you'll just lease it, and you won't have the rights to do anything with it, or to stop carriers, developers, and manufacturers from doing whatever they want. I'm not bitter, I'm just a realist.
 
UnknownSouljer said:
Nice rant. But also untrue. The reason for irremovable backs is that most people care more about IP rating than they do about user replaceable batteries. In other words, people care more that their phone survives a drop in a toilet or the sink than whether or not they can replace their battery themselves in two years. The only cost effective way to do that is with glue.
Click to expand...
The first time I dropped my easy to replace batterie phone on an hard surface a immediately understood the interest in feeling/form factor and resistance a glued case could do much more easily.
 
Works for me. I had a 6 and 6s, so I get 50 bucks, which roughly covers the cost of replacing the batteries back when they were discounted (because of this very issue).
 
Nside said:
Let me make this clear, If a company sells a product that stabs you in the eyes with needles, everyone knows this thing stabs you in the eyes with needles, and reviewers and blindly loyal customers (pun intended) say "well it stabs you in the eyes with needles, but I like it anyway!" ... Yes, I blame the customers and reviewers, but I also dislike the company that makes something that stabs you in the eyes with needles.
Click to expand...
Here’s the deal, you can’t control what anyone or any organization is going to do. You can only control what you do.

Blaiming others for their choices and how it affects you either directly or indirectly is a waste of time and is a part of life. Figure out your own way to deal with what’s in front of you. The blame game just makes you a victim and doesn’t ever actually solve your problem. Regardless of if that is cellphones, mega corps as discussed below, or just straight up interpersonal relationships.
Nside said:
As for the personal statement, that is most often used to try to dehumanize or demoralize a person who you can't argue with otherwise. In other words, your bluff is showing.
Click to expand...
I don’t think you know what the word bluff means. But suffice to say this with your combined diatribe below, my statement stands.

You’re addressing and talking about stuff far beyond the scope of this thread topic and even cell phones in general while simultaneously not wanting take on agency for yourself or allow people to have their own agency and be okay with it.
Nside said:
I dislike Apple, Google, MS, Amazon, Oracle, Facebook, Samsung, etc for many reasons, but ultimately they will only make what they can sell. So the burden of responsibility is on the consumer, which I plainly stated. In your magical world of black and white, either the customers do bad things, or the manufacturers do bad things, it can't POSSIBLY be a little (or a lot) of both. Companies are pushing more toward "subscription based services" rather than outright selling products, You have seen that in the enterprise sector for a while now, and you're seeing it creep in to the consumer market mostly with software. Hardware is next, and all of this is just preparing you for the transition. Pretty soon, you won't actually own your cell phone, you'll just lease it, and you won't have the rights to do anything with it, or to stop carriers, developers, and manufacturers from doing whatever they want. I'm not bitter, I'm just a realist.
Click to expand...
 
UnknownSouljer said:
Nice rant. But also untrue. The reason for irremovable backs is that most people care more about IP rating than they do about user replaceable batteries. In other words, people care more that their phone survives a drop in a toilet or the sink than whether or not they can replace their battery themselves in two years. The only cost effective way to do that is with glue.

More to the point, there is nothing preventing you taking your phone to a technician and having them replace your battery for you. You'd have a point to your rant if it wasn't possible to do this. $70 may seem like a chunk of money and it is, but considering it extends the life in your phone for another 2 years until that battery degrades seems to me like a worthwhile form of "maintenance" on a $1000 device.
Click to expand...
Still running a galaxy S5 here, with replaceable battery for under $20
( replaced by me in under 30 seconds for free )
3.5mm headphone jack, 128gig sd card and water resistant IP67 certified.
 
Soulstorm brew said:
Still running a galaxy S5 here, with replaceable battery for under $20
( replaced by me in under 30 seconds for free )
3.5mm headphone jack, 128gig sd card and water resistant IP67 certified.
Click to expand...
Cool. Certainly an option. And one I give you credit for. You’re probably one of the few who actually practices what they preach and keeps a phone that has the features they claim so badly to want.

Although most of us can’t get the materials and machinery necessary to manufacture our own batteries for free. You may want to get into the business of selling batteries since apparently it would be 100% profit for you.
 
Last edited:
UnknownSouljer said:
Cool. Certainly an option. And one I give you credit for. You’re probably one of the few who actually practices what they preach and keeps a phone that has the features they claim so badly to want.

Although most of us can’t get the materials and machinery necessary to manufacture our own batteries for free. You may want to get into the business of selling batteries since apparently it would be 100% profit for you.
Click to expand...

I think you misunderstood what he said. He didnt say he was building the battery he said he was replacing it for free (i.e. he values his labor in this situation at $0) with an under $20 battery.
 
kju1 said:
I think you misunderstood what he said. He didnt say he was building the battery he said he was replacing it for free (i.e. he values his labor in this situation at $0) with an under $20 battery.
Click to expand...
Jokes my friend. But I would say that that was a huge problem that I had with a friend of mine with batteries for her Note 5 (this was a few years back). Virtually impossible to get a legit one from Amazon (a million knockoffs claiming to be OEM) and every one of them failed inside of 6 months. Without being able to source OEM batteries - in my experience I'd say its a waste. And I would say that whether you're on Android or Apple.

EDIT: In case you're missing the leap in logic, no $20 battery is OEM.
 
Soulstorm brew said:
Still running a galaxy S5 here, with replaceable battery for under $20
( replaced by me in under 30 seconds for free )
3.5mm headphone jack, 128gig sd card and water resistant IP67 certified.
Click to expand...
Still Galaxy S5 and S4 mini here, unfortunately due to AT&T shutting off 3G-4G next year, will have to replace at some point with 5G compatable. Not looking forward to that at all.
 
UnknownSouljer said:
Jokes my friend. But I would say that that was a huge problem that I had with a friend of mine with batteries for her Note 5 (this was a few years back). Virtually impossible to get a legit one from Amazon (a million knockoffs claiming to be OEM) and every one of them failed inside of 6 months. Without being able to source OEM batteries - in my experience I'd say its a waste. And I would say that whether you're on Android or Apple.

EDIT: In case you're missing the leap in logic, no $20 battery is OEM.
Click to expand...

OEM batteries are unnecessarily overpriced by a significant margin. And here's a hint: Most OEM batteries are not manufactured by the same company that makes the phone. For many electronics I have sourced batteries from reputable 3rd party vendors....some of whom are the ones who make the actual batteries that get the "coveted" OEM label.
 
StaticShoes said:
Still Galaxy S5 and S4 mini here, unfortunately due to AT&T shutting off 3G-4G next year, will have to replace at some point with 5G compatable. Not looking forward to that at all.
Click to expand...
They're shutting down 3G, not 4G. Your phone will be good for years to come. There's no way they'd force everyone with a 4G phone to buy a new one. They'd lose customers to T-Mobile.
 
nilepez said:
They're shutting down 3G, not 4G. Your phone will be good for years to come. There's no way they'd force everyone with a 4G phone to buy a new one. They'd lose customers to T-Mobile.
Click to expand...
Thanks, that's good to know. The list AT&T sent to us a couple months back must have been incomplete, as it had only phones released in the last two years. I wonder if that list was circulated to try and get people into the store to upgrade. I see support has an updated list of phones.

https://www.att.com/support/article/wireless/KM1324171
 
StaticShoes said:
Thanks, that's good to know. The list AT&T sent to us a couple months back must have been incomplete, as it had only phones released in the last two years. I wonder if that list was circulated to try and get people into the store to upgrade. I see support has an updated list of phones.

https://www.att.com/support/article/wireless/KM1324171
Click to expand...
I wouldn't be surprised if some earlier LTE phones have trouble due to limited frequency or VoLTE support, but the S5 isn't so old that I'd immediately rule it out.
 
UnknownSouljer said:
Here’s the deal, you can’t control what anyone or any organization is going to do. You can only control what you do.

Blaiming others for their choices and how it affects you either directly or indirectly is a waste of time and is a part of life. Figure out your own way to deal with what’s in front of you. The blame game just makes you a victim and doesn’t ever actually solve your problem. Regardless of if that is cellphones, mega corps as discussed below, or just straight up interpersonal relationships.

I don’t think you know what the word bluff means. But suffice to say this with your combined diatribe below, my statement stands.

You’re addressing and talking about stuff far beyond the scope of this thread topic and even cell phones in general while simultaneously not wanting take on agency for yourself or allow people to have their own agency and be okay with it.
Click to expand...
You're reading too much in to something that isn't there. I never claimed I could control anything anyone else does.

Yes, people have the right to buy whatever they want. I also have the right to criticize people who make poor buying decisions. I also have the right to criticize companies that make poor products. See how that works? It just so happens that all major phone manufacturers are on the same page when it comes to limiting what their customers can do with the phone, because that means more money in their pockets when you need a working headphone dongle, the phone runs out of storage, or if your camera or battery needs replaced

The funny part is, you've spent a lot more energy defending those "rights" that you claim I'm somehow violating than defending the manufacturers practices and giving a rational reason why people would agree to them beyond "it's their right." You say I'm painting myself as a victim, I would argue that the victims are those consumers, waiting in bread lines on launch day for the whatever abortion of a phone Apple graces them with next. And hey, they're so happy with their purchase, they'll do it again and replace it in a year!

As for your waterproof and drop-proof argument, the Galaxy s5 had a decent water-resistance rating, and a removeable back. Also, the iPhone 6 wasn't exactly the pinnacle of structural engineering either, or did we forget about "bendgate" all of the sudden?

You seem hyper-focused on the replaceable battery, or maybe I missed something. What about headphone jacks? SD card slots? Those are all going the way of the dodo, and Apple did it first. I'm sure that's just coincidence though. Apple claimed their iphone 7 just didn't have the room for a headphone jack. Just watch this:


Spoiler Alert: He puts a working headphone jack into an iphone 7, Something that cost him hundreds in prototypes and parts, but would have cost apple pennies to just integrate into the existing circuit board.

So then why did Apple do it? Couldn't be that they weren't exactly telling the truth about their design decisions? It couldn't be that it was the same year they launched $200 disposable bluetooth earbuds.

No, that couldn't be, Apple told me they're friends of the environment. You know, Reduce, Reuse, Recycle.... No wait, Apple doesn't want you doing those first 2 things at all...

As for your last sentence, I find it odd that you didn't see where I stated "You will soon no longer own your phone" ... There is direct connection with this topic. Apple doesn't want to pay these little pittance fines anymore. They would have to worry less about it with a "phone subscription" and a creative TOS that basically says "everything the iphone does that you don't like is a feature, and you agree to put up with it in these terms of lease."

But it's cool, as long as people have free agency, it always works out for the best. Just buy the phone and don't make waves...
 
Last edited:
Non-smart phone to Galaxy S2, S2 to iPhone 7 Plus (when batteries could no longer reliably be sourced), to an 11 Pro Max (moved to a country where the carrier would not accept our phone).

Either way, most of my wife's family (Japanese) and my family have Apple products, so much easier to share photos/movies through this environment. Rather than using two to three different websites, push programs, and crap to get android to work well. Might be different now, but as people say fuck Apple, I say fuck Google, Facebook, and Apple.
 
UnknownSouljer said:
You can do and say whatever you want. But it will not affect what other people do, so I don't see the point. Its just complaining. Don't buy Apple products and move on with your life.
Again maybe reread my posts. You're just soap-boxing at this point. If you can find a good way to have a personal conversation with a few billion people and be an evangelist for the Anti-Apple and also think you can have any chance of changing any hearts and minds go for it. But otherwise this is a big waste of breath. I'm repeating myself here but apparently it's not getting through.
Great I guess? Go buy that phone and be happy.
Name any company that makes over 100 million annually that has never had a single product defect. I'll wait. Actually just name any company period that actually manufacturers things that has never had an error. Cellphone or otherwise. This is just "what-about-ism" while missing the point and trying to paint one company in a bad light while ignoring all the other companies that made their own independent decisions to also do things you don't like.
Samsung made exploding phones that forced planes to land mid-flight. Remember that? What's your point?
Right because they're forward thinking. Also iPhones have never had SD cards ever so they were added and removed completely outside of anything Apple has done. Again you seem "hyper-focused" on Apple making choices while ignoring that it's really each individual cell phone manufacturer making choices. Whether they choose to follow Apple or not is up to them. If Apple was capable of "forcing" other manufacturer to do whatever they wanted, why not just get them all to fold?
Saw it. Also a big waste of time. Turns out Apple was right, most people stopped using head phone jacks in favor of Bluetooth headphones which brings us to your next pointless point....
You realize that people can use whatever Bluetooth headphones they want right? You could argue that Apple is forcing people to buy their option if their option was the only thing that worked but last time I checked there are more third party Bluetooth headphone manufacturers than ever before and the accessories market for cellphones has exploded (and all of those accessories manufacturers can literally thank Apple for their windfalls and their companies existing). This is a complete straw man argument. That isn't to say that Airpods weren't first to market with a truly wireless ear bud, they were, and so far ahead of the curve that people made fun of them for it (won't people just lose one and go crazy?). Turns out everyone wants them that way.
(Also up until this generation every iPhone has come with headphones... so not really sure what you're on about there either).
Your article doesn't say what you think it does. You're accusing Apple of not recycling when they were trying to recycle and the people that were supposed to be recycling weren't recycling?
Also reduce and reuse apparently don't mean what you think they do and Apple does do both of them. First off reduce would just mean use less materials - which they did and people complained. I can link you to the articles about the iPhone 12 using a box half the size of previous gens and no longer containing headphones or a power adapter because people have enough of those. So they have reduced... plenty of times (which also helps them reduce fuel costs by packing more phones into the same number of boxes, so energy savings in addition to materials savings). That's just one example.
Reuse: apparently you're not aware of Apple's refurbished section on their site that they've had going for at least over a decade. I'm not sure when it started but as long as I've purchased an Apple product they've had them available. So you're wrong here too.
The issue again with those parts that were set to be recycled is that Apple's tolerances for things is incredibly high. So if stuff doesn't meet spec it gets recycled. Their refurbished products are literally indistinguishable from new and in fact are a great way to save money if they happen to be selling a refurbished product you want. So the problem in your article was that products set to be recycled were getting used to produce Apple products making the recycling company massive profit while selling an inferior product that didn't meet Apple specifications.
So again they're doing all 3 of those things. But you'll say whatever you want and only read whatever you want to meet your agenda while ignoring anything to the contrary.
This topic is about "batterygate". You've veered so far off into Apple hate land it's all the same for you.
Technically people have been on "phone subscriptions" for almost three decades at this point (how do you get people to spend $1000 every 2 years? Apparently $40 at a time). Phone companies have been using perpetual phone payment plans or two year agreements for a long time. They even didn't bother to detach these costs from phones. When I didn't upgrade my Blackberry after two years and questioned Verizon about why my phone bill hadn't decreased "that's just the way it was". Things are "more transparent" now and if you "pay off your phone" then your bill goes back down again, but there was a time when those two items weren't separate.
If you ask me perpetual payment is far closer to "not owning your phone" as done by the carriers far more than any fearmongering you have going on with Apple creating clauses that "you won't own your phone". Especially considering these statements are baseless as was the article claiming that. It was all facts not in evidence. Since we're super deep into "what-about-ism" anyway, what about carrier lock-in, remember that? It required the federal governement to step in just to force carriers to unlock phones to be used on any carrier. With an artifical barrier that high you really didn't have options - that's really like not owning your phone; cause your phone works on only one carrier and you gotta pay them for life to use it.
However even to that point it seems to me that Apple isn't the one nearly as responsible for this new every two cycle as much as wireless providers. In fact it's only fairly recently that Apple has tried to cut into this market by beating them at their own game. But in any case you won't complain about the networks but you'll complain about Apple. So we've established that.
Precisely. Vote with your wallet. Again even your sarcasm smacks of people not being able to make free choices or have free will. How about just don't buy a phone or own a phone? Your mentality is so locked in and pre-programmed no wonder why you go on tangents. Everything must be fatalistic for you.
Again, just don't buy an iPhone and be happy. Let all of those ignorant, unwashed masses, buy iPhones to their doom. Oh, if only they knew the crazy terrible mistakes they were making!!!... and then move on with your life. You'll live longer. The amount you care at all about what other people are buying is astonishing. Seriously. I bet if I lead you into an Apple store and let you just stand there while people bought iPhones you'd have a heart attack or go catatonic from the stress. Literally, it matters not at all.
Click to expand...
All this, and I'm the one on a tirade? Why do you feel the need to defend Apple so much? I'm just some crazy man on a soapbox, certainly not worth all this text.

buying a phone via payment plan isn't the same as leasing it. You still own the phone when you buy it with a payment plan, and that system has been around long before smartphones. I won't be surprised if we see actual leasing options become the norm in 5 years or so, I don't really care if you believe it or not, but I'm sure you'll have a "perfectly rational" reason for it when it does happen.

Almost everything you say here is "force this... force that..." Nobody is forcing anything. You seem to be obsessed with that notion, and once again, you are constantly trying to put words in my mouth. You can keep building your strawman to knock down. Seems to be working for ya.

As for Apple's altruistic nature and pro-customer business strategies, I linked the wrong ifixit article https://www.ifixit.com/News/45921/is-this-the-end-of-the-repairable-iphone ... woops, seems it's not just a one-off case, it's Apple doing what Apple does. There's much more, but I'll just be accused of going off-topic again.

Apple sure does appreciate your loyalty, as long as you are in line for the iPhone 13 anyway.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top