Blizzard Workers Share Salaries in Revolt Over Wage Disparities

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I make a lot less than 250K a year and have it pretty dam well and am happy. I am wanting for pretty much nothing. I'm sorry if your little bubble doesn't jive with mine but I stick by my statement. You are welcome to leave if its so terrible here is all I can say. Good luck!

Why do you think your anecdotal experience overrides his? He has a broader experience of the world than you do.

Between the unsupported "best country in the world to live in" claim and "if you don't like it, leave" remarks, it's pretty clear you're not really interested in ensuring the US is the best country to live in... you're just interested in defending the status quo. Real patriotism means constantly questioning whether or not you're living up to your values and standards. It means treating your country as a constant work in progress where things can always be better, and acknowledging that other countries might do things better. It doesn't mean acting as if your country is essentially perfect, or insisting that no one is allowed to raise substantial criticism as long as they live within your borders.

That's one of the biggest problems with American exceptionalism: it has crossed the line from national pride (which is a fine thing when it's healthy) to demanding conformity and mindless obedience. Either treat things as generally perfect (even when they're obviously not) or get out.

To tie this back to the original story... there's something messed up when the people Activision depends on for testing and customer support are struggling to afford basics like food. The American system clearly hasn't worked well here -- the company is still doing well despite treating some of its employees like garbage. While ideally Activision would reform behavior on its own, this does make a case for minimum wages and other labor guarantees that keep pace with the cost of living in a given state or city.
 
Life choices. No one is forcing them to be there. Poor people have kids all the time.
If you're a halfway decent software developer, you should be able to transition to another company easily.

These likely aren't software developers complaining. Software developers are still somewhat scarce. But game testers? There's a million people knocking down your door to play video games for a living. On top of massive supply, it is full of people willing to fuck themselves over for an opportunity. That makes it very, very competitive. On top of that, there is the question of what a very skilled game tester brings to the table. Does having a lot of experience make you significantly more productive? If the answer is not much, then you are being crushed form both sides and that job is a job, not a career.

The big part is... Choosing. They knew how much they werw getting paid when they took the job, now all the sudden they can't afford food? What changed that they could once afford food and now can't? These silly stories about people always make me laugh. I only got a small raise so now I can't eat. Wtf were you doing before you got the raise?!? I understand that pay disparity is sometimes stupid/rediculous but these sob stories take away from the actual issue. It should be about pay disparity, not why people can't live within their means. Find a company thats willing to pay what you feel your worthm. If you can't, then you need to adjust your expectations for the job/field you have.

There's this thing called inflation. Things that can't easily be exclusively imported and thus 100% of production outsourced to cheap labor tend to be subject to much more inflation than the average. Like schooling, healthcare, car repair, and to a lesser extent food. You also had fun things like the ACA. That shit vaporized about $500 a month of my income immediately due to how my employer changed who paid what for our benefits. Then the increased overall costs basically vaporized all my raises for about 5 years.

If I was a developer at Blizzard I’d just quit and go make phone apps or something else more profitable. Even in a bad economy you can find other opportunities if you look hard enough. These guys want to live in the Bay Area and pay retarded prices for rent because they enjoy that environment. They could relocate to another state with a less prestigious company and have a higher quality of life.

The bay area makes it much worse. This is an example of out of control inflation causing them problems. People are moving in, can't afford housing, and are generally sacrificing to be there. Even the well paid ones. That these companies don't move is bullshit. It'd be good for the employees, good for wherever they moved, and good for the bottom line. Blizzard is not benefiting form the synergy of being surrounded by a bunch of start ups. There's no value in being there.
 
Honestly, taxing corporations is mostly unproductive. I'd drop all corporate and business taxes all together if I were kind for a day, and make up for them with a highly progressive income tax.

When a company keeps its money it is often reinvesting in it's business and that helps everyone.
....
Yeah, mate, we all know how that works. All those corporate bonuses are just fake news.
 
If Democracy was working properly and elected officials were working to benefit the people then you tax companies looking to leave by 40% of their value and you tax them to operate in your area. Why you think Google operates in Europe despite that Europe is looking to tax them more and more each year?

If democracy is working correctly, you don't do this unless you've already got a law on the books saying so. Note that not having one is explicitly forbidden to both the Federal governments and the states by the Constitution for reasons that shouldn't be too hard to figure out.
 
No matter your preferred tax scheme, don't forget where it goes.

The government. ;)

Remember that the next time you talk about taxes. Maybe if taxes went to us normal people, things would be different.
But the government? I sure hope you've chosen your masters wisely.
 
There is nothing about the word "socialism" which precludes a market driven economy.

Socialism does not mean "state owned planned economy". It just means that tax revenues are utilized to better make sure that all can live a more dignified existence, not the "winner take all" approach we have here.

I can't find a single source defining socialism in such a way.

Socialism is a political, social, and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership[1][2][3] of the means of production[4][5][6][7] and workers' self-management of enterprises.[8][9] (wiki)

any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods (merriam webster)

Socialism, social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources. (britannica)



Like where are ya'll getting your definition of socialism. Because welfare programs aren't it. As such, Scandinavian countries are all free market, like i said earlier and when asked, will deny being socialist.



shutup bernie
 
Thanks for the non answer.

A company paying less taxes is better then them leaving the country and paying no taxes, duh.

Well considering that I originally responded to Draax (and not you), and he was responding to Bowman15 (and not you), I figured I would just expand on what I originally said.

You asked whether I was "calling tax payout reductions, subsidies" when really I was pointing out existing elements of socialism in the US after someone said "PS: Socialim does not work regardless of flaws in capitalism." Duh.
 
I can't find a single source defining socialism in such a way.

Socialism is a political, social, and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership[1][2][3] of the means of production[4][5][6][7] and workers' self-management of enterprises.[8][9] (wiki)

any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods (merriam webster)

Socialism, social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources. (britannica)

Like where are ya'll getting your definition of socialism. Because welfare programs aren't it. As such, Scandinavian countries are all free market, like i said earlier and when asked, will deny being socialist.

Probably because it's not a black-and-white all-or-nothing situation anywhere in the world. If it was, that top line from the wiki sounds pretty much like Classical Marxism.

As an example, Canada has government-controlled and tax-funded healthcare for all citizens; this is considered to be socialized medicine/medical care. But not everything in Canada is setup in such a way and there are free markets for all sorts of industries. Obviously Canada can't be considered to be 100% free market, but also not 100% socialist either...so how would you like to proceed? Is there simply no room in the discussion for hybrid systems?
 
I can't find a single source defining socialism in such a way.

Socialism is a political, social, and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership[1][2][3] of the means of production[4][5][6][7] and workers' self-management of enterprises.[8][9] (wiki)

any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods (merriam webster)

Socialism, social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources. (britannica)



Like where are ya'll getting your definition of socialism. Because welfare programs aren't it. As such, Scandinavian countries are all free market, like i said earlier and when asked, will deny being socialist.



shutup bernie

We're getting hung up on semantics. Countries like Sweden and Canada have socialist elements -- capitalism plays a crucial role, but they also realize that certain aspects of life benefit from working toward a common good, like healthcare and labor protections. While some parts of the US system work, it's still somewhat horrifying that someone like, say, an Activision tester not only gets lousy pay, but probably can't afford medical treatment (in some cases, even if they have insurance) or to take time off.
 
Real patriotism means constantly questioning whether or not you're living up to your values and standards. It means treating your country as a constant work in progress where things can always be better, and acknowledging that other countries might do things better.

I wish more people in our country thought this way. We would be infinitely better off if we could all agree that living up to ideals is as important as picking fights over them.
 
I can't find a single source defining socialism in such a way.

Socialism is a political, social, and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership[1][2][3] of the means of production[4][5][6][7] and workers' self-management of enterprises.[8][9] (wiki)

any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods (merriam webster)

Socialism, social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources. (britannica)



Like where are ya'll getting your definition of socialism. Because welfare programs aren't it. As such, Scandinavian countries are all free market, like i said earlier and when asked, will deny being socialist.



shutup bernie

They call it Social Democracy. It implements elements of socialism but is powered by a sandboxed free market.

It's not black or white (or red or white as it were). It is a spectrum.
 
Except for all the retards who think wearing a mask is infringing on their "freedoms"

I have to agree there. If state governors had a clue how to create orders showing where to require them and why without a long list of retarded exceptions and over the top rules that do nothing but inconvenience everyone. AND realize that a piece of over the counter cotton cloth does not not do what they think it does vs. real N95 masks to prevent the spread. Alas that isn't so...retarded
 
meaningless comment to clear something from the comment box. Sorry--please ignore, unless there's a way to make the forum software forget. Just deleting the contents doesn't seem to work.
 
AND realize that a piece of over the counter cotton cloth does not not do what they think it does vs. real N95 masks to prevent the spread. Alas that isn't so...retarded

We are getting so ridiculously off topic at this point that I am almost concerned about replying, but let me say this:

Even a non-N95 mask can be effective at reducing transmission rates.

No, it will not block the virus itself. You need a very small pore size for that.

There are some reports that COVID is airborne now, and for a truly airborne virus you do need that level of protection.

The lucky part is that most transmission of COVID is not airborne, and for non airborne transmission a simple cloth covering helps a lot. For non-airborne transmission the virus hitches a ride on a droplet. Even a simple mask can reduce droplet transmission, and if the droplet doesn't go anywhere, neither does the virus hitching a ride.

It is most effective when worn by the infected person, as then it can reduce the number of droplets leaving their body. It is much less effective when worn as protection, because if a droplet lands on your mask, the virus in that droplet can still make its way through the mask. It does help a little bit though.

The piss example is relevant here:

1596662771656.png


This is why it bears repeating that we wear masks for others, not for ourselves, just in case we are asymptomatic spreaders. It's an act of caring about not killing other people, and if everyone does it, the transmission rate - while not eliminated - is significantly reduced.
 
We are getting so ridiculously off topic at this point that I am almost concerned about replying, but let me say this:

Even a non-N95 mask can be effective at reducing transmission rates.

No, it will not block the virus itself. You need a very small pore size for that.

There are some reports that COVID is airborne now, and for a truly airborne virus you do need that level of protection.

The lucky part is that most transmission of COVID is not airborne, and for non airborne transmission a simple cloth covering helps a lot. For non-airborne transmission the virus hitches a ride on a droplet. Even a simple mask can reduce droplet transmission, and if the droplet doesn't go anywhere, neither does the virus hitching a ride.

It is most effective when worn by the infected person, as then it can reduce the number of droplets leaving their body. It is much less effective when worn as protection, because if a droplet lands on your mask, the virus in that droplet can still make its way through the mask. It does help a little bit though.

The piss example is relevant here:

View attachment 267627

This is why it bears repeating that we wear masks for others, not for ourselves, just in case we are asymptomatic spreaders. It's an act of caring about not killing other people, and if everyone does it, the transmission rate - while not eliminated - is significantly reduced.

I already knew all of that. And the non N95 mask is still even somewhat effective has not been confirmed by the majority of the medical community. Don't believe everything you read about COVID.

That being said you are correct about off topic. Stay distancing and use common sense is still the best method.
 
That's why I'm here talking about hardware and technology. This is productive because it builds a future for people.
Unless it's Intel's fab technology.

Pure capitalism is as stupid and unviable as pure communism or pure socialism. There's a reason we have the mixed type (and why most nations have mixed kinds of economies) ... because people dont play by the rules, play with the interests of society at heart, or play with the same opportunities as others.

We may have a shitty economic model, but pure capitalism would be worse. In fact, a lot of what you'd consider shitty about our economy has to do with the things we allow to be more like pure capitalism. Because unlike imagination land, capitalism breeds monopolies and oligopolies, and nepotism. All things that work to undermine all the benefits of capitalism for all but the few people at the top. Where capitalism works in the real world is at the small scale. There's a tipping point where it needs to be seriously man handled and watched to keep it from corrupting and we're far from being great at making that part happen across the board.
Yeah, the USA did so poorly when it was less regulated...oh, wait, it became the richest country in the world, there was a strong middle class and families could thrive with one provider.

I'm U.S. born, but grew up in Sweden and meet up with Swedes here all the time. I can't tell you how many Swedish expatriates I have known living in the U.S. who decided to give up and go back to Sweden because it is comparatively impossible to raise a family in this country.

Just about everyone who earns less than $250k a year would probably be better off in a country like Germany, France, Sweden, Denmark or Norway.

They might take a slightly larger chunk of income in taxes, but the peace of mind of not constantly having to worry about "what if" makes that all worth it.

I was running the numbers a while back to see if I could swing it and move back to Sweden. Sure their income tax is higher, but once I subtract out all of the things I have to pay for here that I wouldn't have to there (health insurance, copays, etc. retirement savings, etc.) financially it was actually pretty much equivalent.

So no. All the statements about the U.S. being the best place to live in the world, the most free, etc. are mostly false views held by people who don't know better and have never experienced the alternative, out of some foolish sense of national pride.
Yet, you chose to stay. And more than a thousand Swedes each year prefer moving to the USA.
And Sweden's welfare system is beginning to fall apart now that they are more and more facing challenges similar to those in the USA

Except for all the retards who think wearing a mask is infringing on their "freedoms"
Maybe, but getting fined for not wearing is.
 
This might start happening more often.
Marvin's approach was a little over the top, but human race will revolt if pushed hard.

 
They call it Social Democracy. It implements elements of socialism but is powered by a sandboxed free market.

It's not black or white (or red or white as it were). It is a spectrum.

gotcha, i'm a black or white autist, it happens.
 
This might start happening more often.
Marvin's approach was a little over the top, but human race will revolt if pushed hard.



I want to random people to watch my documentary. Lets open with some generic drone footage with a poorly recorded voice over that is hard to understand at loud voumes on my studio monitors.

I gave it 1:50 and closed. Can't even see the title from the youtube thumbnail. Naaa
 
No one made them stay there.
That is rubbish. The way the job market is today with over 25% of the work force unemployed there are Not many options. My suggestion is organize secretly and when you have the unity walk into the bosses office sitdown and tell him the terms required to get you back to work. It will strike terror into his heart and that is what is called for when these empty suits arrogantly see us as less than human. Make sure you get him to sign a document of no retaliation for the sit-in. Before you leave the office. I would also suggest that he order lunch for all of you while you stage the occupation. . You get a feeling empowerment when you have the unity and can dictate terms. I personally have organized such illegal actions several times in my life including in the work place . I was a union delegate in my hospitals radiology department. But I went way beyond my legal power as a delegate when I was able to build unity on some serious issues. That is what communists can do successfully in the workplace. We build collective leadership and scientifically approach how to create change. The process is called dialectical materialism. I am long retired now but I still rock the boat by recruiting young workers to become the working class leaders for the future. That is my legacy. When you have successfully built unity you are the law for the moment. The capitalist class holds state power so until the revolution comes we can only show a glimpse of what is potentially ours.
 
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That's not capitalism, that's a lack of democracy. Democracy is capitalism's long time more hated foe.


Capitalism does not work, regardless of the flaws. We pretend Capitalism works, despite that we needed the New Deal and every 10 years the system falls apart and we give money to the wealthy because Capitalism loves Socialism for the wealthy.


Just want to point out that we don't really have a capitalist system. We have crony capitalism or socialism for the rich and hard capitalism for the poor. Capitalism works so well that the rich have socialism. The stuff Blizzard does here in the United States wouldn't fly in the UK. You can't just fire people and hire again for their position in the UK.

View attachment 267272
You are right, but by lack of explanation you leave some magical idea that it is almost genetic. No, it came from some bloody struggles in the past 100 years in the UK and due to the lack of trade union militancy and lack of communist organizing in the labor movement that advantage for UK workers will eventually be lost. In the US from 1932 to 1950 the Communist party successfully organized the UAW , United Rubber workers ,United Steel Workers, and General Electric. The fought many bloody strikes and won most. But they got complacent and had a bad political line. So they set themselves up for the anti-communist McCarthy era and lost power in the unions. The labor movement lost all its momentum and things have progressively deteriorated since that time. Nothing lasting is given to us, we have to organize fight and many times take our lumps along the way. It is called the class struggle for a reason. It ain't easy.
 
You are no Jeff Bezos. You must make billions before you get to pay no taxes. Ford and other companies are getting tax credit during COV19. Let me know if kju1 is some sort of acronym for a business you own that makes millions because you maybe able to get free government money like the good socialist you are.
View attachment 267378
You realize the people that work for those corporations pay taxes. The medium and small businesses that support that corporation pay taxes and all the people who work at the corporation and medium & small businesses employ people at restaurants (etc.) that pay taxes.

And I'm already paying income taxes why do I want to pay them twice? Because if you heap taxes on a business, they don't just suck it up. It's viewed as an operating expense and the additional cost of doing what they're doing will be passed onto consumers (which is a flat tax on everyone regardless if income bracket). And the price increase will of course result in doing less of what they do, aka unemployment.
 
You are right, but by lack of explanation you leave some magical idea that it is almost genetic. No, it came from some bloody struggles in the past 100 years in the UK and due to the lack of trade union militancy and lack of communist organizing in the labor movement that advantage for UK workers will eventually be lost. In the US from 1932 to 1950 the Communist party successfully organized the UAW , United Rubber workers ,United Steel Workers, and General Electric. The fought many bloody strikes and won most. But they got complacent and had a bad political line. So they set themselves up for the anti-communist McCarthy era and lost power in the unions. The labor movement lost all its momentum and things have progressively deteriorated since that time. Nothing lasting is given to us, we have to organize fight and many times take our lumps along the way. It is called the class struggle for a reason. It ain't easy.

His reasoning is flawed because we know capitalism works more than any other form. And to suggest that the rich has some sort of socialist monopoly is a joke because there are different levels of what you call rich and factors surrounding that definition. You can be rich living in a medium midwestern town but move to San Francisco and be considered poor due to cost of living. Every system has flaws and there are similarities between all of them. Those posters are the low key antifa types that like to twist things around causing discourse.
 
That is rubbish. The way the job market is today with over 25% of the work force unemployed there are Not many options. My suggestion is organize secretly and when you have the unity walk into the bosses office sitdown and tell him the terms required to get you back to work. It will strike terror into his heart and that is what is called for when these empty suits arrogantly see us as less than human. Make sure you get him to sign a document of no retaliation for the sit-in. Before you leave the office. I would also suggest that he order lunch for all of you while you stage the occupation. . You get a feeling empowerment when you have the unity and can dictate terms. I personally have organized such illegal actions several times in my life including in the work place . I was a union delegate in my hospitals radiology department. But I went way beyond my legal power as a delegate when I was able to build unity on some serious issues. That is what communists can do successfully in the workplace. We build collective leadership and scientifically approach how to create change. The process is called dialectical materialism. I am long retired now but I still rock the boat by recruiting young workers to become the working class leaders for the future. That is my legacy. When you have successfully built unity you are the law for the moment. The capitalist class holds state power so until the revolution comes we can only show a glimpse of what is potentially ours.
Most that 25% choice not to go to work. Take away their unemployment and the extra $600 people been getting they will find work if they want too. Hell with that $600 benefit most people are making more money sitting on their ass.
 
I'm not going to get into the pros and cons of the different economic systems but more workers should be sharing their salary information with their fellow coworkers. Americans have been conditioned to think that it's immoral to do so but it's one tool that can empower employees.
 
Most that 25% choice not to go to work. Take away their unemployment and the extra $600 people been getting they will find work if they want too. Hell with that $600 benefit most people are making more money sitting on their ass.

Too add to that you also get the state unemployment so lets say for example 350 + 600 = 950 a week for sitting on your ass at home. I've heard plenty of stories about people refusing or not wanting to go back until that 600 runs out.

Seems like that expired 600 has helped people get off their asses...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mar...recast-to-pandemic-low/ar-BB17DWUC?li=BBnbfcN
 
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His name was Marvin Heemeyer. TREAD explores the polarizing perspectives on this man, his motives, and what drove him to the breaking point. Show More

Blizzard will be tread 2.0, mate.
 
Not everyone is a highly desirable software engineer, data scientist or machine learning engineer. And for those that aren't, simply just moving to a LCOL area isn't all the simple. And doing that with a family is all that much harder.

Fortunately the silver lining of COVID is the desirable types are beginning to move out of HCOL areas to work remotely. That should living costs for those that remain stuck in the HCOL areas.

Fact is this country went from a single income being able to support a mortgage and a family of 4 some 30-50 years ago... to having to remain DINK until you're 40 to get anywhere financially.

Single incomes could support families when there was a strong middle class underpinned by manufacturing and associated skilled labor union jobs in ready availability. The outsourcing of labor and manufacturing destroyed the long term stability of the middle class. Skilled labor is gone. There is now a minimum wage/menial labor and a technically skilled/managerial labor market with nearly nothing in the middle. To top if off, everyone got college degrees and flooded the upper tier and, essentially, stagnated wages there as well. Couple that with an ever increasing amount of unskilled labor pressure due to people who were traditionally capable of middle class skilled labor being forced to work multiple low wage jobs, additional pressure from illegal workers and then outsource pressure at the top from H1B and associated offshoring and you have a labor market that is in distress to say the least. There is almost no more chance for upward mobility, and people at the upper-middle spectrum are saddled with huge debt loads and have wages eroded over time.

This is not something just raising wages can fix - this is a cancer in the fundamental underpinnings of our system and job market.
 
Single incomes could support families when there was a strong middle class underpinned by manufacturing and associated skilled labor union jobs in ready availability. The outsourcing of labor and manufacturing destroyed the long term stability of the middle class. Skilled labor is gone. There is now a minimum wage/menial labor and a technically skilled/managerial labor market with nearly nothing in the middle. To top if off, everyone got college degrees and flooded the upper tier and, essentially, stagnated wages there as well. Couple that with an ever increasing amount of unskilled labor pressure due to people who were traditionally capable of middle class skilled labor being forced to work multiple low wage jobs, additional pressure from illegal workers and then outsource pressure at the top from H1B and associated offshoring and you have a labor market that is in distress to say the least. There is almost no more chance for upward mobility, and people at the upper-middle spectrum are saddled with huge debt loads and have wages eroded over time.

This is not something just raising wages can fix - this is a cancer in the fundamental underpinnings of our system and job market.
Mate, very well put. I could not agree more. Thank you.
 
LOL no....look at your history. Socialism does not work pretty well. For all the faults of capitalism the US has pretty much the best country on earth to live in.

According to what study?
Happiness...Scandinavia FTW.
No corruption.. again Scandi FTW.
Could you provide a study backing up your claim?
 
I do see problem with continual whining about not being compensated. Gaming, not to mention tech, is a huge industry. If you're not happy, go work elsewhere.

What I completely, 100% agree with, is sharing of salaries. Every large organization I've worked for has either made the inference that sharing comp is "bad" (i.e. bad for execs and others being overcompensated) or out-right not allowed (a statement which is, in most jurisdictions, patently illegal). Wage disparity between equally-experienced and equally-producing peers is in no way ok.

At one place I worked at, there was a misdirected email to a large mail group that contained salary info for all employees (we're talking 12k+ people). Huge internal compensation data leak, no idea how the company kept it hush-hush and out of the press. By midday the file had reached most everyone in one way or another. What people found was sickening, albeit not surprising:
  • Execs (many of them incompetents) made 40-50x the average employee.
  • In large groups, there were invariably a few members were making inexplicable sums compared to their peers with no rhyme or reason why
  • There was one UI dev with the exact experience and job level as other devs he was sitting next to, employed around the same time, similar project and deliveries... he was making 2x what all the others made. No one could figure out why
  • Employees who came in on recent diversity programs were making considerably more than their direct peers (I assume this is done to entice diversity candidates)
  • Indian tech employees, even those who were on-shored and/or had naturalized were making considerably less than others
Overall, employees were happy to have the info as the many were able to negotiate higher pay vs the few who were making a killing relative. A lot of folks did give notice, however, over the next months...
 
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