Intel is losing against AMD

Snowdog said:
There is a difference between what people buy, and what people need.

My argument is that MOST people don't need more than a modern 4c/8t machine today.

Show me some evidence that MOST people need more than this today.
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Those are dumb points. Nobody needs more car than a Civic. Nobody needs more than a room and bath to live in. And of course no one made anyone else on the internet the arbiter for everyone else on what they need or want. The market has spoken and apparently ppl do want more cores. Whether they actually need them or not, is not something anyone can quantify, so asking for proof of it is retarded.
 
thesmokingman said:
Those are dumb points. Nobody needs more car than a Civic. Nobody needs more than a room and bath to live in. And of course no one made anyone else on the internet the arbiter for everyone else on what they need or want. The market has spoken and apparently ppl do want more cores. Whether they actually need them or not, is not something anyone can quantify, so asking for proof of it is retarded.
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Lots of people with more than 2 kids, need more than Civic, as do people who haul, carry a lot of gear.

As far as need goes, I would bet most people couldn't tell the difference if you swapped their 4c/8t, for an 8C/16t just running their normal applications. If you can't tell the difference, you certainly don't need it. This is drastically different from your Civic example.

Considering most the market is laptops, I would bet most people are still buying 4 cores as well.

The only market that has spoken on over 4 cores, is the the enthusiast after market.
 
Snowdog said:
Lots of people with more than 2 kids, need more than Civic, as do people who haul, carry a lot of gear.

As far as need goes, I would bet most people couldn't tell the difference if you swapped their 4c/8t, for an 8C/16t just running their normal applications. If you can't tell the difference, you certainly don't need it. This drastically different from your Civic example.

Considering most the market is laptops, I would bet most people are still buying 4 cores as well.

The only market that has spoken on over 4 cores, is the the enthusiast after market.
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No they don't. Whole effing families live in a room because they have to. The same with squeezing into a small car. You clearly don't see the ludicrous nature of making demands to prove your dumb points? And to be fair, I'm not singling you out perse but the nature of this argument.
 
thesmokingman said:
No they don't. Whole effing families live in a room because they have to. The same with squeezing into a small car. You clearly don't see the ludicrous nature of making demands to prove your dumb points? And to be fair, I'm not singling you out perse but the nature of this argument.
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One of my Coworkers had 8 kids. They are not fitting into a Civic. Put two car seats for kids in a civic and your are legally topped out. Are you going to argue they don't need to follow laws?

The dumb point here, is you claiming no one needs more than a Civic.
 
Snowdog said:
One of my Coworkers had 8 kids. They are not fitting into a Civic. Put two car seats for kids in a civic and your are legally topped out. Are you going to argue they don't need to follow laws?

The dumb point here, is you claiming no one needs more than a Civic.
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Haha, it's ironic you don't see that its the same point. No one needs more than a Civic... no one needs more than 4 cores, smh.
 
Snowdog said:
One of my Coworkers had 8 kids. They are not fitting into a Civic. Put two car seats for kids in a civic and your are legally topped out. Are you going to argue they don't need to follow laws?

The dumb point here, is you claiming no one needs more than a Civic.
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He's just making fun of your point that no one needs more than 4 cores.
You'r point of no one needs more than 4 cores is just as stupid...
People buy what they freakin want...
We could go on and on about "You don't need more than ___"
There's a reason there's more than just 4 cylinder cars and minivans..... people buy what they want
 
thesmokingman said:
Haha, it's ironic you don't see that its the same point. No one needs more than a Civic... no one needs more than 4 cores, smh.
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It's not the same point at all. My statement was qualified as "Most people". Yours was an absolute. "Nobody"

Just more poor quality argumentation on your part.
 
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

My gawd, what is wrong with you guys who act like you know it all for most everyone? FYI the civic was a joke to get you to understand the ridiculous nature of your stupid argument. Pro tip, no one died and made you the arbiter of what I need or want, nor for anyone else.

Not only that, but then you make even more lame demands for others to prove otherwise, that's fukcing ridiculous. You cannot even prove your own damn point.
 
Rockenrooster said:
changing your wording i see...
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Now we have arguing in bad faith by quoting a different older post than the one he quoted, and taking this one out of context as well. You left out:

" for Internet/media consumption and home office productivity"


Context is always important.
 
Snowdog said:
Now we have arguing in bad faith by quoting a different older post than the one he quoted, and taking this one out of context. You left out:

" for Internet/media consumption and home office productivity"
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You could also easily argue that you don't need more than 2 cores for that :ROFLMAO:
Actually lets make that 1 core! It'll still work since everything is still MOSTLY single threaded!
 
Rockenrooster said:
You could also easily argue that you don't need more than 2 cores for that :ROFLMAO:
Actually lets make that 1 core! It'll still work since everything is still MOSTLY single threaded!
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I wouldn't go that far, but nice to see you agree in principle. ;)
 
Rockenrooster said:
You could also easily argue that you don't need more than 2 cores for that :ROFLMAO:
Actually lets make that 1 core! It'll still work since everything is still MOSTLY single threaded!
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You want at least two, but you won't see an appreciable difference above that for desktop apps.

The reason four has become the 'minimum' is more that it's not likely for either AMD nor Intel to produce CPU dies with less than four cores going forward.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
You want at least two, but you won't see an appreciable difference above that for desktop apps.

The reason four has become the 'minimum' is more that it's not likely for either AMD nor Intel to produce CPU dies with less than four cores going forward.
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I guess you didn't get my sarcasm...
On a more serious note, I would say that price is waaaaaaaay more of a factor on why everyone uses quad cores right now. We will be saying the same thing when 8 core CPUs have the highest marketshare...
I think that a better saying would be "most people don't need to spend more than $200 on a CPU"
 
thesmokingman said:
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

My gawd, what is wrong with you guys who act like you know it all for most everyone? FYI the civic was a joke to get you to understand the ridiculous nature of your stupid argument. Pro tip, no one died and made you the arbiter of what I need or want, nor for anyone else.

Not only that, but then you make even more lame demands for others to prove otherwise, that's fukcing ridiculous. You cannot even prove your own damn point.
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Hey, I am offended, I own a 2018 Civic SI Coupe and you called my car a joke. :D ;)
 
Mega6 said:
Fartcan mufflers too? :ROFLMAO:
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I own an Si, no mods for me. :) It has that HDMI port rear muffler outlet. As for computers, I have been using 8 core cpu's since 2013 and quad core from 2007 until 2013, needs have most definitely increased over time.
 
ManofGod said:
Hey, I am offended, I own a 2018 Civic SI Coupe and you called my car a joke. :D ;)
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Family of 8 no problem.

hrq0ovyil9vuy0wkcbl8.jpg
 
thesmokingman said:
Family of 8 no problem.

View attachment 203970
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Nah. :) Family? No need for a 4 door anymore. As for AMD, been using it almost exclusively in my personal computers for 22 years and have never been let down. Good to see Intel paying for their complacency and arrogance, especially based upon the corrupt business practices. (I am AMD exclusive in my desktop builds but not in other people computers.)

Edit: Not my pic but my car is exactly like that.

Edit: Uh oh, two doors must equate to 2 cores? Uh oh........... :D
 

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Rockenrooster said:
I'm glad that people that push the envelope of whats possible in information technology/computer science don't think like you;)
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They do think like me. ;)

If they didn't, they wouldn't still be selling quad core and even dual core CPUs. Which both AMD and Intel are still doing.
 
Snowdog said:
They do think like me. ;)

If they didn't, they wouldn't still be selling quad core and even dual core CPUs. Which both AMD and Intel are still doing.
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No they don't...... since when is 4 cores "pushing the envelope of what's possible"?
Yes they both sell quad and dual cores still. But AMD has been pushing the evelope of what's possible by designing a modular chip that is cheap and easy to produce, hence the success of Ryzen. AMD has brought affordable 8 cores to the masses.
Only then did Intel respond with a 6 core CPU.
You already know all of this surely....
To be fair, I guess one way to see 4 cores "pushing the envelope" is to be able to make then so freakin cheap to produce, that 4 cores is the new Entry Level (also thanks to AMD)

According to you:
Snowdog: "Most people don't need more than 4 cores"
Intel: "Yes, lets just make it slightly faster than the previous one and sell it for the same price while actually not putting forth much effort for maximum profit!!!"

Totally sounds like pushing the envelope..........
AMD: releases 8c Ryzen.
Intel: 4 Cores is all you need!
AMD: releases 12c Ryzen.
Intel: No one needs more than 6-8 cores.
AMD: releases 16c Ryzen.
Intel: ???

At the moment Intel is reacting and AMD is pushing the envelope. (Yes I know things are planned waaaay in advance but still)
Do you work for Intel?
 
Rockenrooster said:
No they don't...... since when is 4 cores "pushing the envelope of what's possible"?
Yes they both sell quad and dual cores still. But AMD has been pushing the evelope of what's possible by designing a modular chip that is cheap and easy to produce, hence the success of Ryzen. AMD has brought affordable 8 cores to the masses.
Only then did Intel respond with a 6 core CPU.
You already know all of this surely....
To be fair, I guess one way to see 4 cores "pushing the envelope" is to be able to make then so freakin cheap to produce, that 4 cores is the new Entry Level (also thanks to AMD)

According to you:
Snowdog: "Most people don't need more than 4 cores"
Intel: "Yes, lets just make it slightly faster than the previous one and sell it for the same price while actually not putting forth much effort for maximum profit!!!"

Totally sounds like pushing the envelope..........
AMD: releases 8c Ryzen.
Intel: 4 Cores is all you need!
AMD: releases 12c Ryzen.
Intel: No one needs more than 6-8 cores.
AMD: releases 16c Ryzen.
Intel: ???

At the moment Intel is reacting and AMD is pushing the envelope. (Yes I know things are planned waaaay in advance but still)
Do you work for Intel?
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Just because I think most people are totally fine with a modern 4c/8t, doesn't mean I don't also believe in pushing the envelope as well.
 
Rockenrooster said:
I guess you didn't get my sarcasm...
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Probably not ;)

Rockenrooster said:
On a more serious note, I would say that price is waaaaaaaay more of a factor on why everyone uses quad cores right now. We will be saying the same thing when 8 core CPUs have the highest marketshare...
I think that a better saying would be "most people don't need to spend more than $200 on a CPU"
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This is true- it's why the 3700X is the de-facto gaming recommendation.

But that's if you're building; if you're just buying something, you have to go out of your way to get more cores, and most people both don't have a clue why they'd need that (other than more = better, see Bulldozer) and generally don't need it anyway.

Note: most people

Gamers aren't that :D
 
How much of the "enthusiast" + consumer market contributes to the lions share of money at the end of the day? I thought most of the lights at both companies are kept on by the datacenter market, which need as many cores as you can throw at them?
 
Fremunaln said:
How much of the "enthusiast" + consumer market contributes to the lions share of money at the end of the day? I thought most of the lights at both companies are kept on by the datacenter market, which need as many cores as you can throw at them?
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Think more in terms of OEMs. Datacenter yes, but also the crappy desktops sold to enterprises and consumers, as well as mobile.

In the datacenter, you generally want more cores if you can get them.

On corporate desktops and laptops, and consumer versions of each? Quad core CPUs are still 'high end'.
 
Fremunaln said:
How much of the "enthusiast" + consumer market contributes to the lions share of money at the end of the day? I thought most of the lights at both companies are kept on by the datacenter market, which need as many cores as you can throw at them?
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Given that all Intel's CPU's for more than a decade have been either a scaled up mobile part or a scaled back Xeon part with higher clocks, I'd say the consumer market doesn't make a whole lot of difference beyond mobile devices. Even then, smart phones and tablets are probably dominant in that space. Really, the only reason why your average person needs a desktop or a laptop is to play games. Businesses usually issue laptops and workstations are generally relegated to developer roles.

Servers are Intel's bread and butter. That's a market where Intel not only sells far more processors, but does so at considerably higher prices with far more margin. Intel sells to OEMs in 1,000+ unit quantities. In turn, datacenters buy dozens of servers at a time. Each could contain one or more processors in varying configurations and price points. With virtualization being so big now, what I see is typically dual processor servers with upwards of 18c/36t or 22c/44t and so on. I rarely see servers bought from the bottom of the stack and rarely do I see them from the top either. Basically, I've worked in some very large data centers and I've never seen a 56c/128t Xeon Platinum 8180 or anything like that.
 
jmilcher said:
But the gains, in percentage that AMD has gained in a short amount of time should be enough to worry Intel. Especially in the server segment.
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This is how worried Intel is.

They just announced record quarterly and full year revenue results driven by Data Center.

Intel may be a shitty company, but never underestimate them. True evil never dies :p
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
This is how worried Intel is.

They just announced record quarterly and full year revenue results driven by Data Center.

Intel may be a shitty company, but never underestimate them. True evil never dies :p
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2% forecasted growth for 2020, saddled with $25 Billion in debt and being beat technologically in almost all phases of CPU development is not a path to continued success. They are HIGHLY overestimated in my opinion.
 
Mega6 said:
2% forecasted growth for 2020, saddled with $25 Billion in debt and being beat technologically in almost all phases of CPU development is not a path to continued success. They are HIGHLY overestimated in my opinion.
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Selling what they make isn't 'success'? Are you going to claim that Intel doesn't have architectures in development?
 
IdiotInCharge said:
Selling what they make isn't 'success'? Are you going to claim that Intel doesn't have architectures in development?
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I hope they do, because if they don't, the pendulum is going to swing the other way, and AMD is going to start selling a $500 CPU for $2000 (similarly how they did this in 2006).
We have the competition, and now we need the balance!
 
kamxam said:
But..but We all KNOW Intel is Bad, AMD is GOOD! :oldman: (Cause i read it on here)
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History speaks for itself when it comes to Intel crappie business practices against AMD. Now it is coming back to bite them in the ass.
 
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