Not only google... your car MFR also knows everything about you...

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[H]ard|Gawd
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https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a30260730/chevy-volt-hacked-data-collection/

For now, exactly what information goes where is a bit of an unknown by anyone other than the automakers themselves. As Fowler writes, "My Chevy's dashboard didn't say what the car was recording. It wasn't in the owner's manual. There was no way to download it."

To figure this out, Fowler had someone hack into the Volt. He discovered that the car was recording details about where the car was driven and parked, call logs, identification information for his phone and contact information from his phone, "right down to people's address, emails and even photos." In another example, Fowler bought a Chevy infotainment computer on eBay and was able to extract private information from it about whoever owned it before him, including pictures of the person the previous owner called "Sweetie."
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Not like this is a surprise to anyone REMOTELY familiar with modern data flows, but still...
 
Yeah it sucks.

But it's gotten to the point where individuals cannot opt out by choosing not to buy or use products, as there either aren't any alternatives which are any better (they are all doing it) or you'd have to isolate yourself off from modern technology to the point where you'd be living in the forest and drinking your own piss.

We are well overdue for regulations that ban any and all collection of personal data for any purpose without explicit consent that is not tied to the use of the product.

Only the can this big brother bullshit be killed.
 
It seems like a ripe place for an aftermarket module that replaces the flash chip or hard drive or whatever's storing this information with something that appears to accept the writes, but drops the data on the floor.
 
Not my 04 accord or my 2012 nc700x. Well, the accord probably logs breaking, acceleration, and maybe steering, and sirius may be tracking my location, but at least no personal info is stored on board.

Really wanna trade up the accord, but I could do without most of the modern tech. Gimme aux in/bluetooth and I'll be happy. Maybe I'll get a 2012, or I might get a fortwo and save for a decent truck...
 
I mean, I actively give my driver's insurer 24/7 access to my odb2 port, for like a 10% savings... so who cares?

I realize I'm the minority, but with my car parked over a hundred feet beneath me... and a manually disabled (torn out) Bluetooth input... meh. Not too worried about secret info exchanges.

I mean, I've even GPS bugged my own vehicle in case it gets stolen. LTE SIM cards are cheap as chips for <1gb data prepays... I reload the line maybe 2x a year?
 
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[21CW]killerofall said:
2010 Toyota Carolla. No tracking or recording of any kind.
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Actually NOT quite true. The 2010 Toyota Carolla has the Toyota EDR in it. EDR=Event Data Recorder.

http://www.bkc-law.com/blog/toyota-hides-important-black-box-crash-data/

https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2016-01-1495/

And a sample of what it contains.....

https://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/nvs/pdf/EDR_data_from_field_inspections.pdf

At least it doesn't report back to home though.
 
EDR is the result of insurance companies more than anything else... not surprised at the level of data stored.
 
auntjemima said:
What type of vehicle? My 2004 impala had OnStar and it couldn't be removed and tracked my location.
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Onstar is in the Pontiac G8 (Holden here) located in a box in the parcel tray. You can unplug it.
But finding a service manual to do that is tricky.

My solution is to do a full powertrain swap and run a standalone ECU with an aftermarket ICE. But that's not for the normal user lol.
 
N4CR said:
Onstar is in the Pontiac G8 (Holden here) located in a box in the parcel tray. You can unplug it.
But finding a service manual to do that is tricky.

My solution is to do a full powertrain swap and run a standalone ECU with an aftermarket ICE. But that's not for the normal user lol.
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Strange. When I tried unplugging the OnStar module on my 2004 impala the vehicle just didn't operate. Some googling said the canbus looks for all modules and if ones missing, no beuno.
 
matt167 said:
I drive a 1995 Ford F250 for a reason, and my other vehicle although it's in the shop at the moment, is an imported 1993 Suzuki Jimny. My vehicles run without a trace
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Funny. I had a Samurai and a '96 F250.
 
2008 Crown Vic and a 2006 F250. Yep no tracking on those.

Really I don't like newer cars. Too many things that could break.
 
auntjemima said:
Strange. When I tried unplugging the OnStar module on my 2004 impala the vehicle just didn't operate. Some googling said the canbus looks for all modules and if ones missing, no beuno.
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Interesting. Might be different for USDM cars then, some sort of safety requirement....
If HP Tuners supports the impala you could probably remove the check requirement. Not the cheapest test though.
 
LOCO LAPTOP said:
2008 Crown Vic and a 2006 F250. Yep no tracking on those.

Really I don't like newer cars. Too many things that could break.
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I'm 50/50 on this. I've owned roughly 50 vehicles in my lifetime. No matter the year, there was always something that could break. 1988 Samurai? Electronic carb. 96 XJ? Heat soak on cylinder six. 2005 Freestyle, nothing...yet. '15 F250, only problems are I lose the roof lights at the rate of one a week. And its never the same one. My truck has been solid so far. Its the 6.2 so, its not that bad if something were to go wrong. Its a wash.
 
auntjemima said:
When I tried unplugging the OnStar module on my 2004 impala the vehicle just didn't operate.
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I read something yesterday that said that on a lot of cars, the EDR is part of the airbag control module, and, among other things, if you unplug it, the airbags stop working.

I assume in your case, the car started when you plugged the OnStar back in.

I wonder if canbus traffic is encrypted. Someone with some free time could probably figure out what the OnStar is saying and make some kind of spoof, if not.
 
1_rick said:
I read something yesterday that said that on a lot of cars, the EDR is part of the airbag control module, and, among other things, if you unplug it, the airbags stop working.

I assume in your case, the car started when you plugged the OnStar back in.

I wonder if canbus traffic is encrypted. Someone with some free time could probably figure out what the OnStar is saying and make some kind of spoof, if not.
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Yeah, it worked when plugged back in.
 
auntjemima said:
Strange. When I tried unplugging the OnStar module on my 2004 impala the vehicle just didn't operate. Some googling said the canbus looks for all modules and if ones missing, no beuno.
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There's usually more than one CAN BUS in really modern vehicles, a high speed CAN and a low speed CAN. If the CAN the module is connected to is a token ring network than the whole bus will go down when you remove the module.

Chances are the people successfully removing the module have it in a star topology network.

All I care for is direct injection and a large turbocharger, couldn't care less for all the infotainment systems and tracking electronics.
 
Mazzspeed said:
If the CAN the module is connected to is a token ring network than the whole bus will go down when you remove the module.
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Token ring...haven't hard that mentioned in a long time! But of course, that would be true. Again, it seems like, again, barring encryption, some kind of replacement module ought to be possible. I don't know enough about that networking layer to have any idea how hard it would be.
 
1_rick said:
Token ring...haven't hard that mentioned in a long time! But of course, that would be true. Again, it seems like, again, barring encryption, some kind of replacement module ought to be possible. I don't know enough about that networking layer to have any idea how hard it would be.
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Technically speaking, assuming you could find the can bus wires you could splice them together to complete the network. However, considering the importance of the CAN BUS and the cost of wiring looms coupled with the fact that the CAN BUS wires are a twisted pair - I wouldn't recommend this.
 
Mazzspeed said:
Technically speaking, assuming you could find the can bus wires you could splice them together to complete the network. However, considering the importance of the CAN BUS and the cost of wiring looms coupled with the fact that the CAN BUS wires are a twisted pair - I wouldn't recommend this.
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Yeah, I kind of cringed at the thought, which is why I initially suggested some kind of stub device. Like I said I have no idea whether that's really feasible for anyone but whatever the right term is for the equivalent of a grognard.
 
1_rick said:
Yeah, I kind of cringed at the thought, which is why I initially suggested some kind of stub device. Like I said I have no idea whether that's really feasible for anyone but whatever the right term is for the equivalent of a grognard.
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If it doesn't work or if the module in question performs more than one task you could be in for a world of pain.
 
Mazzspeed said:
If it doesn't work or if the module in question performs more than one task you could be in for a world of pain.
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Sure. It might be interesting for someone who didn't mind taking the risk to try it out, though.

I was googling around a bit last night and I discovered that for some cars, apparently when there's a crash, the airbag control module (I think the acronym was SDM, so I'm gonna just use that rather than go look it up again) will sort of lock itself out. I found a youtube video by some comapny that says when you talk to your dealer about repairing the car, they'll tell you you have to buy a new module for hundreds of dollars, but they claim if you send it to them they can reset it for like $50 and it's perfectly safe and legal (I am not evaluating these claims.)
 
1_rick said:
Sure. It might be interesting for someone who didn't mind taking the risk to try it out, though.

I was googling around a bit last night and I discovered that for some cars, apparently when there's a crash, the airbag control module (I think the acronym was SDM, so I'm gonna just use that rather than go look it up again) will sort of lock itself out. I found a youtube video by some comapny that says when you talk to your dealer about repairing the car, they'll tell you you have to buy a new module for hundreds of dollars, but they claim if you send it to them they can reset it for like $50 and it's perfectly safe and legal (I am not evaluating these claims.)
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This is true, clearing codes on air bag modules is a little different to clearing normal DTC's. Also, because the air bag control module has a crash sensor fitted in many cases, quite often the module itself needs to be replaced in the event of a hard enough accident.
 
Westwood Arrakis said:
...1988 Samurai? Electronic carb...
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Someone mentioned auto-carbs? Fucking auto-carbs, red-headed step-children of the intake system history line. Spend an hour rebuilding one, matching linkage bends perfectly only to have it act differently and spend another several hours tinkering with it to get it to behave... Yeah, I don't know many people who wouldn't just chuck the danmed things and modify the engine to work with a mechanical carb.

Oh yeah, on-topic; I'd be surprised if there isn't a few underground mfgs that make replacement dummy systems for performance cars and/or popular tuner cars. Can't have our street crews getting dinged every time they over-rev their engines or travel too fast in non-designated areas.
 
Westwood Arrakis said:
I'm 50/50 on this. I've owned roughly 50 vehicles in my lifetime. No matter the year, there was always something that could break. 1988 Samurai? Electronic carb. 96 XJ? Heat soak on cylinder six. 2005 Freestyle, nothing...yet. '15 F250, only problems are I lose the roof lights at the rate of one a week. And its never the same one. My truck has been solid so far. Its the 6.2 so, its not that bad if something were to go wrong. Its a wash.
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I got the Jimny out of Japan because it is 3cyl turbocharged, EFI.. I had a JDM Carry ( little tiny truck ) with the same motor but carburated. Partly electronic ( enrichment and idle up was done in the CV diaphragm like a Harley carb ), part vac controlled, and the idle was controlled by 2 seperate dashpots on a teeter totter assembly.. The manual was made of magic voodoo written in Japanese. When it quit running right I had 3k rpm idle/ almost cruise control, but then some days it was fine. And then on a cold day it would leave me on the side of the road with an iced up carb. New carb was $400, so I ordered the Jimny, bought the F250 and sold the tiny truck
 
Mazzspeed said:
This is true, clearing codes on air bag modules is a little different to clearing normal DTC's. Also, because the air bag control module has a crash sensor fitted in many cases, quite often the module itself needs to be replaced in the event of a hard enough accident.
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Yeah, the video I watched, the guy fell all over himself repeating that you needed the battery unplugged for the obvious reason, but he also pointed out about that sensor--said if you moved it while powered it could fire the airbags.
 
1_rick said:
Yeah, the video I watched, the guy fell all over himself repeating that you needed the battery unplugged for the obvious reason, but he also pointed out about that sensor--said if you moved it while powered it could fire the airbags.
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It depends on the module, but the ones I'm familiar with (early-mid 90s GM) don't have internal sensors, but are connected to sensors in the bumpers or other areas of the car. People often hate on them (normally due to age-failure), but they're very easy to refurbish with a capacitor swap, after that have the module checked/cleared at an authorized dealer/shop and it's good for another 20+ years (the same goes for a lot of 90s ECMs) .
 
Nuh uh, I drive a 2003 model before all the spyware was put in. nah nah nah boo boo.
 
Skull_Angel said:
It depends on the module, but the ones I'm familiar with (early-mid 90s GM) don't have internal sensors, but are connected to sensors in the bumpers or other areas of the car. People often hate on them (normally due to age-failure), but they're very easy to refurbish with a capacitor swap, after that have the module checked/cleared at an authorized dealer/shop and it's good for another 20+ years (the same goes for a lot of 90s ECMs) .
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FWIW I was watching a video for my specific car, and--from memory--what the guy said was something to the effect that if you remove the module from the car--it's bolted to the floor under the center console--while it has power, it might think the car was hit and set off the airbags. Another video showed a computer plugged into either the OBD2 interface or something else specific to the EDR, and performing a software procedure to reset the module. That's all I know.

If you care, I can probably find the vid again.
 
1_rick said:
FWIW I was watching a video for my specific car, and--from memory--what the guy said was something to the effect that if you remove the module from the car--it's bolted to the floor under the center console--while it has power, it might think the car was hit and set off the airbags. Another video showed a computer plugged into either the OBD2 interface or something else specific to the EDR, and performing a software procedure to reset the module. That's all I know.

If you care, I can probably find the vid again.
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Chances are you will set off the airbags, that's the crash sensor, hence why it's usually bolted to the floor firmly under the center console right in the middle of the vehicle.

I've never seen anyone rebuild an airbag control module, I worked in dealership land for many years and if anyone came to me with a rebuilt module and wanted me to check/clear the module for reuse there absolutely no way I'd do such a thing from a liability perspective. I'm also very good with electronics, and from a liability perspective I wouldn't touch an airbag control module that's been in an accident with a ten foot barge pole.
 
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