Tesla Unveils Radical Cybertruck.

Some interesting coverage from reviewers and truck drivers:

https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-electric-pickup-engineering-manufacturing/
https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-electric-pickup-ride-impressions
https://electrek.co/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-pickup-truck-camper-configuration/

Somehow with these tricks they managed to hit a crazy EV truck price-point of $39k and a range option that goes up to 500 miles, 1-3 motors powerful enough to haul an F-150, uphill, in a tug of war.

It also seems they'll also have a solar roof option, that auto-sliding bed roof may optionally be a solar roof that can charge the truck while it's parked at a rate of 15+ miles per day.

The 110/220 volt sockets and built in air compressor options are another nice touch.

Back of napkin math tells me I could run my table saw on the go with this for 120 hours, or run a laptop at full load for 500 hrs, sounds like a fun mini-camper idea. Looks like they'll be offering a camper config with a kitchen option for that:

Tesla-Cybertruck-camper-1-e1574434915159.jpg


As of today, it looks like they got past 250k reservations, not bad for a first day.
 
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odditory said:
One of these days Rich is going to ride the lightning, and loved ones will come home to something roughly resembling a corpse, medium well.

What's that saying? You mess with the bull, you get the horns.
Click to expand...

he already came close once almost burning down his buddies shop messing with just two Tesla cells...

Then has the nerve to clickbait title it as a Tesla battery fire like it was their fault.

 
Archaea said:
Thanks for the link - this product gets more interesting to me in this regard. It really extends lifespan before a charge is needed. I work 20 miles away each way - so 40 miles round trip. But I only work from the office three days a week. that's 4 days from home.

If parked outside - regen would give me 15*7 = 105 miles per week - IF always sunny (not happening) -- but it is cool because it's ALMOST to the point I wouldn't need to charge my vehicle with daily work use with this option. Just park on the parking garage roof at work, and in my driveway at home.
Click to expand...

This made me think of a fun guessing game.

The truck bed is 6.5 feet long. The average truck bed is about 5 feet wide. It's on a slight slope, so the actual length of the tonneau cover is a bit longer, but the solar panels don't cover the entire surface. I'll go with 6.5 x 5 as the surface area for the solar panel, which is on the high side as the solar panel does not appear to cover the entire tonneau cover. Tesla appears to be using mostly Panasonic solar panels right now, which are about 21-22% efficient. I'll use an estimate of 0.6 kwh per day per square feet using this data (a little on the high side): https://www.solar-electric.com/learning-center/solar-insolation-maps.html/#Map1, the conversion being 1 square meter is 10.8 square feet.

6.5 x 5 x 0.6 x 0.22 = 4.29 kwh generated per day, for 15 miles. This leads to an estimated battery capacity of 86 kwh for the 300 mile battery pack, which is surprisingly low. These are relatively high numbers I'm using as well, which is a best case scenario for power generation but also a worst case scenario for kwh/mile.

Assuming Musk is talking about a best case scenario where he's talking purely about summer charging, this is what the math looks like assuming an unrealistically high 0.8 kwh a day. I'm also going to assume a slightly higher efficiency of 25%.

6.5 x 5 x 0.8 x 0.25 = 6.5 kwh, estimated battery capacity of 130 kwh for the 300 mile battery pack.

Several possibilities that can be said about this thought experiment:
1. Musk is greatly exaggerating the charging range of solar power.
2. Musk developed some highly efficient panels that are not on the market yet.
3. The Cybertruck has much lower aerodynamic drag than anticipated.
4. Some combination of the above.

As for economics, there is about 32 sq feet of space on the tonneau cover. Some quick googling showed Panasonic solar panels to be approximately $350 18 square feet panel. That's just over $600 for panels to cover the bed. I'm going to assume the cost to install the solar option is a nice round $1000. Tesla charges $0.28 per kwh on its Supercharger network, so in this case I will assume only charging on the Supercharger network. In the first scenario, it would take you 2.3 years (assuming you got 4.29 kwh every day) to recoup your cost. Second scenario is a shorter 1.5 years. Some public chargers are up to $0.79 per kwh, so if your only option is those expensive chargers, the solar panel option should pay off fairly quickly.

Switching to home based charging, PG&E offers off peak charging of $0.14 per kwh. In this scenario, it would take 4.6 years for the solar panel option to pay itself off. In all likelihood, all of the estimates are actually twice to three times as long to pay off due to not being able to get ideal conditions every day, if not longer, and also the fact that my quick math appears to show the range is exaggerated.
 
erek said:
Tesla stock plummeted about 6% so far today on news that the Cybertruck's armored glass is junk and shattered:

View attachment 201674
Click to expand...

That's just the generational divide showing between Wallstreet and Mainstreet: The old stock traders and media wigs freak out over the design, stock reacts to that. On the other hand you see 250,000 reservations on the first day for this truck, a reflection of the street overriding mainstream/financial expert sentiment.

Not unlike movie reviews where artsy fartsy movies get high marks but the kids go watch a Marvel flick lol.
 
Wierdo said:
That's just the generational divide showing between Wallstreet and Mainstreet: The old stock traders and media wigs freak out over the design, stock reacts to that. On the other hand you see 250,000 reservations on the first day for this truck, a reflection of the street overriding mainstream/financial expert sentiment.

Not unlike movie reviews where artsy fartsy movies get high marks but the kids go watch a Marvel flick lol.
Click to expand...
Because no one gives a fuck if the glass is "armored glass" or any of that bullshit, they want an EV that's different, aka a "truck" and that's what they want. They don't want something that could fill in for the President's Limo.
 
Nimisys said:
I wouldn't read too much into the pre-orders. It is a 100$ refundable buy-in. That's a cheap investment for speculators thinking they sell their reservation spot later.
Click to expand...
Could also be that it's such an insignificant amount that there's a lot of "ah, screw it, why not?" types in there. It's pretty much zero commitment.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Because no one gives a fuck if the glass is "armored glass" or any of that bullshit, they want an EV that's different, aka a "truck" and that's what they want. They don't want something that could fill in for the President's Limo.
Click to expand...

I don't think people in Wallstreet and mainstream media are complaining about the practicality of this thing, it's an emotional response to the look first, and then fill in the blanks after. They see the shape and instinctively think "oh shit, this wont sell" and stock goes down, that's as far as they go with their analysis.

On the street though, allot of people are saying "woaw, this thing is SO ugly, I want one!" lol. Hence the 250,000 reservations.

My friends in WV started the same way when going through the videos and reviews after I sent them an IM about it:
- Uh wth is that.
- Hmm, I could use this or that feature.
- Woaw, I want one!

The transition from shock to curiosity to awe, it's a fun idea, it's fresh. Allot of people can get behind that, provided the required features are there. Price tag is a killer, range is nuts, features are cool, maybe the looks are not a big deal after all.

Similar discussions shows up here, talking about public reaction:


Also it's interesting to see this much controversy bouncing allover mainstream media, on every front page and news channel, showing the Tesla brand is plastered allover the place, harping on this "outlandish" or "innovative" or "ugly" company product. All with zero dollars spent for this kind of massive publicity.

Kinda interesting imho.

Nimisys said:
I wouldn't read too much into the pre-orders. It is a 100$ refundable buy-in. That's a cheap investment for speculators thinking they sell their reservation spot later.
Click to expand...

Very true. I think it's a helpful gauge of public interest though.

Who knows how many actually end up pulling the trigger, but if it's even a small double digit percent of that number then it's a good start.

Then those buyers end up driving around towns and camping at national parks here and there, turning heads and striking conversations, which would translate to more second hand sales.
 
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Archaea said:
Thanks for the link - this product gets more interesting to me in this regard. It really extends lifespan before a charge is needed. I work 20 miles away each way - so 40 miles round trip. But I only work from the office three days a week. that's 4 days from home.

If parked outside - regen would give me 15*7 = 105 miles per week - IF always sunny (not happening) -- but it is cool because it's ALMOST to the point I wouldn't need to charge my vehicle with daily work use with this option. Just park on the parking garage roof at work, and in my driveway at home.
Click to expand...
Interesting question because Elon mentioned solar option would give it 15mi/day, and with some kind of fold out wing panels being considered, could do 40mi/day. Average daily mileage in the US is 30mi, so getting it effectively self-propelled is something they're trying to achieve.

You'd only be saving $2-5/day is gasoline equivalence, or $.30-$1.50/day in electrical charging cost, so it would probably be more psychological milestone than huge cost savings. But being self propelled for 71-90% of the calendar year? Science fiction levels of epic.
 
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odditory said:
Interesting question because Elon mentioned solar option would give it 15mi/day, and with some kind of fold out wing panels being considered, could do 40mi/day. Average daily mileage in the US is 30mi, so getting it effectively self-propelled is something they're trying to achieve.

You'd only be saving $2-5/day is gasoline equivalence, or $.30-$1.50/day in electrical charging cost, so it would probably be more psychological milestone than huge cost savings. But being self propelled for 71-90% of the calendar year? Science fiction levels of epic.
Click to expand...

Also less "clean coal" involved in charging it..
 
Tsumi said:
This made me think of a fun guessing game.

The truck bed is 6.5 feet long. The average truck bed is about 5 feet wide. It's on a slight slope, so the actual length of the tonneau cover is a bit longer, but the solar panels don't cover the entire surface. I'll go with 6.5 x 5 as the surface area for the solar panel, which is on the high side as the solar panel does not appear to cover the entire tonneau cover. Tesla appears to be using mostly Panasonic solar panels right now, which are about 21-22% efficient. I'll use an estimate of 0.6 kwh per day per square feet using this data (a little on the high side): https://www.solar-electric.com/learning-center/solar-insolation-maps.html/#Map1, the conversion being 1 square meter is 10.8 square feet.

6.5 x 5 x 0.6 x 0.22 = 4.29 kwh generated per day, for 15 miles. This leads to an estimated battery capacity of 86 kwh for the 300 mile battery pack, which is surprisingly low. These are relatively high numbers I'm using as well, which is a best case scenario for power generation but also a worst case scenario for kwh/mile.

Assuming Musk is talking about a best case scenario where he's talking purely about summer charging, this is what the math looks like assuming an unrealistically high 0.8 kwh a day. I'm also going to assume a slightly higher efficiency of 25%.

6.5 x 5 x 0.8 x 0.25 = 6.5 kwh, estimated battery capacity of 130 kwh for the 300 mile battery pack.

Several possibilities that can be said about this thought experiment:
1. Musk is greatly exaggerating the charging range of solar power.
2. Musk developed some highly efficient panels that are not on the market yet.
3. The Cybertruck has much lower aerodynamic drag than anticipated.
4. Some combination of the above.

As for economics, there is about 32 sq feet of space on the tonneau cover. Some quick googling showed Panasonic solar panels to be approximately $350 18 square feet panel. That's just over $600 for panels to cover the bed. I'm going to assume the cost to install the solar option is a nice round $1000. Tesla charges $0.28 per kwh on its Supercharger network, so in this case I will assume only charging on the Supercharger network. In the first scenario, it would take you 2.3 years (assuming you got 4.29 kwh every day) to recoup your cost. Second scenario is a shorter 1.5 years. Some public chargers are up to $0.79 per kwh, so if your only option is those expensive chargers, the solar panel option should pay off fairly quickly.

Switching to home based charging, PG&E offers off peak charging of $0.14 per kwh. In this scenario, it would take 4.6 years for the solar panel option to pay itself off. In all likelihood, all of the estimates are actually twice to three times as long to pay off due to not being able to get ideal conditions every day, if not longer, and also the fact that my quick math appears to show the range is exaggerated.
Click to expand...

If they covered the passenger area with the solar panels - looks like you might get about a third more. If that was an option to extend solar panel, I'd go for it. I don't need a glass roof on my car - I have one on my 1990 Corvette targa top, and I have a sunroof on my Grand Prix - don't especially care for it one way nor the other and I don't find use for it on either vehicle.

Say that made it jump from <= 15 mile per day to 20 mile per day charge. That'd be worth it for sure in my opinion.

upload_2019-11-23_19-12-10.png
 
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Archaea said:
If the covered the passenger area with the solar panels - looks like you might get about a third more. If that was an option to extend solar panel there, I'd go for that. I don't need a glass roof on my car - I have one on my 1990 Corvette, and I have a sunroof on my Grand Prix - don't especially care for it one way nor the other and I don't find use for it on either. Say that made it jump from <= 15 mile per day to 20 mile per day charge. That'd be worth it for sure.

View attachment 201984
Click to expand...

That would increase the surface area by 25-50%, making the 15 mile claim go to 19-23 miles. However, based on my math, I find the 15 mile claim extremely unlikely and think that it will be far closer to 7-9 miles on average.
 
odditory said:
The black looks like cattleprod-wielding cyberpolice are going to get out of it to ask you if you like your front teeth, because it's past curfew.

If I can get it in black I'll get to the dealership to drag my runny nose across the paperwork tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Would be fucking cool to see anodized color options with full stainless steel grain still visible.
 
Gideon said:
Guess he can sell the ugliest thing ever designed. I mean you have to try hard to make the Aztek not hold that spot anymore.
Click to expand...

Aztek is Ugly.

Cybertruck is radical. It threw me originally, just because it was so far outside my expectations, but now I think it's the best designed, best looking pickup up truck out there.
 
Snowdog said:
Aztek is Ugly.

Cybertruck is radical. It threw me originally, just because it was so far outside my expectations, but now I think it's the best designed, best looking pickup up truck out there.
Click to expand...

Same here. I was put off a little at first but then it grew on me. I guess being out of the box got to me at first. But I think the final design might look little different when it comes to lights since you can't have single light going across from what I read. But it definitely grew on it. I put in my reservation for the heck of it and I have 2 years to think about it.
 
Not sure why people are calling this ugly. This is exactly what cars of the future were supposed to look like when I was a teenager in the 80's. Finally someone has the balls to make a car that Lord Humongous would be proud to drive rather than just slapping new headlights on the same old ugly brick. I am all in.
 
Mchart said:
That glass thing was idiotic. You should want side glass to break easily in a car as it is. Not breaking would be deadly.
Click to expand...
In hindsight, the glass breaking was a serendipitous PR godsend for Tesla, as the whole thing got even more exposure than had it just gone off as perfectly as an iPhone presentation - does anyone watch those anymore? That doesn't work for every company, but has been working for Tesla and SpaceX because they seem to embrace failure, or at least take it in stride. And that comes across as honest and genuine in a world of corporations known for anything but. People feel like they're witnessing this raw and unfiltered - and occasionally stumbling - disruption and transformation of a stagnant, hundred year old industry. And lots of people want to be part of the beta, whatever it means.

So all the predictable "Elon Musk FAIL as stunt goes awry" and "Tesla total EMBARRASSMENT during unveil and stock TANKS" headlines end up wet firecrackers that help get more eyes on the truck in the end.
 
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Wierdo said:
Interesting claim:
"The idea (of the exoskeleton design) was around before, but nobody had the balls to do it"
Click to expand...

Another observation they make: "His mistakes turn out to be wins".

Great video. Funny how it starts out "That was the most disastrous product unveiling I've ever seen.. and Elon Musk is a freaking genius and he's nailed the truck thing". Did not see that 180 coming.
 
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Snowdog said:
Aztek is Ugly.

Cybertruck is radical. It threw me originally, just because it was so far outside my expectations, but now I think it's the best designed, best looking pickup up truck out there.
Click to expand...
Sure, when Tesla does it, it's radical, stunning and brave. Couldn't be ugly, no. Such a visionary. Fuck side access, it's damn radical, dude!
 
Mchart said:
Trust me, i'm fairly anti-truck when it comes to modern trucks. They've become way to complicated because people just buy them as luxury barges versus work trucks. Blows my mind that someone would buy a giant luxury truck over something like a Charger, etc.
Click to expand...
I have an f250 diesel lifted on 35's, leather interior, crew cab. I use it to bring trash (no trash pickup in my rural area), tow vehicles, pickup loads from Lowe's/homedepot and bring it on trips to my parents. I also pull a 19' trailer with 4 wheelers, dirt bikes, go karts and anything else I need. Why can't I have a nice truck AND use it..for it's purpose. Everyone here seems they are mutually exclusive. Just because one day I drive it you don't see if fully loaded doesn't mean it doesn't get used.
Rant over, and to your (and others) point. Around me a lot of trucks do get used, but I see plenty that don't as well. I like some of the specs, but I wouldn't trade in my truck for that... Looks like something I would have drawn in preschool (to be fair, my artistic skills probably haven't improved much since then). Where does my fifth wheel attach? 10k pounds is ok for most things. No clue what batter life would be like towing 5k+ that my trucks sees. 500 miles is pretty good though depending on weather, load and if your driving up/down mountains. But man is it ugly, someone turned down the settings to low poly mode to get faster speeds.
 
illram said:
Well, this is real (I mean real as in a prototype exists and some people drove it around and camped in it) as opposed to a photoshop.
Click to expand...

So, the most revolutionary pick up truck ever, and your concern is that the tent attachment isn't ready yet?
 
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Still not a fan of EVs in cold climates + long commutes. The 500 mile range makes it more interesting, but I’d still need an ICE for a few months of the year.

Nevermind the vampire drain from the cold just to keep the batteries warm. You plug it into 120VAC 15A and all of that goes to just keeping the car’s batteries warm. People heat their garages just for these cars which make you wonder how “green” they are. But what this means is I couldn’t even carry a small honda generator for emergencies because in the winter the power would go to keeping the batteries warm rather than charging them... you’re just SOL.

For warm climates they seem way better off and I bet that acceleration is awesome.

2C829F7C-75B0-4E2C-8373-5304D490BA49.jpeg
 
Dayaks said:
Still not a fan of EVs in cold climates + long commutes. The 500 mile range makes it more interesting, but I’d still need an ICE for a few months of the year.

Nevermind the vampire drain from the cold just to keep the batteries warm. You plug it into 120VAC 15A and all of that goes to just keeping the car’s batteries warm. People heat their garages just for these cars which make you wonder how “green” they are. But what this means is I couldn’t even carry a small honda generator for emergencies because in the winter the power would go to keeping the batteries warm rather than charging them... you’re just SOL.

For warm climates they seem way better off and I bet that acceleration is awesome.

View attachment 202059
Click to expand...

It's really not that bad. Sure if you are close to needing all your range in the summer, you are gonna be screwed in the winter.

But unless you commute is absurd, even the base 250 mile range should be fine in winter. My best friend commutes all winter (Ont, Canada) in is Nissan Leaf with a 140 mile ideal range...

The longer your commute, the more your battery will heat up in use and release more energy.

This guy has done all kinds of extreme cold Tesla testing in Norway. Here it's -36°C/-33°F, and he actually sleeps overnight in the car(away from any power), while it spends battery energy keeping him comfortable all night, and drives the next day. His issues aren't EV related, they are cold related (power steering freezing up). In these temps, my manual transmission barely shifts as the hydraulic clutch barely moves.

 
odditory said:
In hindsight, the glass breaking was a serendipitous PR godsend for Tesla, as the whole thing got even more exposure than had it just gone off as perfectly as an iPhone presentation - does anyone watch those anymore? That doesn't work for every company, but has been working for Tesla and SpaceX because they seem to embrace failure, or at least take it in stride. And that comes across as honest and genuine in a world of corporations known for anything but. People feel like they're witnessing this raw and unfiltered - and occasionally stumbling - disruption and transformation of a stagnant, hundred year old industry. And lots of people want to be part of the beta, whatever it means.

So all the predictable "Elon Musk FAIL as stunt goes awry" and "Tesla total EMBARRASSMENT during unveil and stock TANKS" headlines end up wet firecrackers that help get more eyes on the truck in the end.
Click to expand...
My brother said he thought that was intentionally clever marketing. I balked a bit at his suggestion, but when I got home I realized my wife had heard about it. I asked her if she thought it could have been intentional, and she said if it wasn't then she never would have heard of the launch nor cared. Frankly I probably wouldn't have either as I haven't really closely followed Tesla— and now I find myself participating in this discussion, considering whether I could swing one myself.
 
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Snowdog said:
So, the most revolutionary pick up truck ever, and your concern is that the tent attachment isn't ready yet?
Click to expand...
I'd wager the "most revolutionary pick truck ever" was done in the 1920's when average people could first buy one to haul stuff rather than load up the horse & wagon, or even in the following decades when towing/hauling capacities increased exponentially, not in 2019 when someone made one battery powered. I'm not even hating on it, but to call it the most revolutionary pick up truck ever is just laughable.
 
IcePickFreak said:
I'd wager the "most revolutionary pick truck ever" was done in the 1920's when average people could first buy one to haul stuff rather than load up the horse & wagon, or even in the following decades when towing/hauling capacities increased exponentially, not in 2019 when someone made one battery powered. I'm not even hating on it, but to call it the most revolutionary pick up truck ever is just laughable.
Click to expand...

Ok, so the most revolutionary pickup in a hundred years... :)
 
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IcePickFreak said:
I'd wager the "most revolutionary pick truck ever" was done in the 1920's when average people could first buy one to haul stuff rather than load up the horse & wagon, or even in the following decades when towing/hauling capacities increased exponentially, not in 2019 when someone made one battery powered. I'm not even hating on it, but to call it the most revolutionary pick up truck ever is just laughable.
Click to expand...
This one is almost self powered with the optional solar panel kit. 15 miles per day of self charge. Sounds small in our modern age of 15 mile commutes, but 15 miles per day of untethered travel? I bet the early pioneers or horse and buggy era farmers would be impressed. ;) Lots of folk from that era may live and die without ever going outside the range of a single charge.

As oddity mentioned — this is the stuff of science fiction.

No grain as food, no petrol. Drives itself, Tows up to 14,000 lbs. You could take it on the Oregon trail — without anything but a cooler of a few days food and water. No gas station needed.

There’s nothing mundane about that.
 
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Archaea said:
This one is almost self powered with the optional solar panel kit. 15 miles per day of self charge. Sounds small in our modern age of 15 mile commutes, but 15 miles per day of untethered travel? I bet the early pioneers or horse and buggy era farmers would be impressed. ;) Lots of folk from that era may live and die without ever going outside the range of a single charge.

As oddity mentioned — this is the stuff of science fiction.

No grain as food, no petrol. Drives itself, Tows up to 14,000 lbs. You could take it on the Oregon trail — without anything but a cooler of a few days food and water. No gas station needed.

There’s nothing mundane about that.
Click to expand...

The settlers didn't have the luxury of stopping every few months at a Tesla service center to have their vehicle fixed under warranty for the ~nth time because some overly complicated piece of software/hardware combo broke down again.

I don't know many people who have a Tesla as their only vehicle. It's almost always a secondary vehicle, and the things are in the shop frequently.

Again, these Teslas are great if you live near an urban area, but they are non-starter in most of the country. It's not even due to the electrical requirements, it's due to the service issues. It's the same reason modern Volvo's, for instance, you never see outside of suburban/urban areas anymore because they've become so complicated and you need to be near a big city for any service outside of an oil change / tires.
 
I like all the features and bells and whistles. If it all holds up with 3500lbs of cargo while driving up a grade (or whatever the hardest test would be, IDK much about trucks) then it looks good to me.

I just think it looks hideous and not in a "hehe but it's neat so I like it" way. It just looks fucking ugly as hell and would embarrass me wherever I went (except knowing a percentage of people are in the "hehe but it's neat so I like it" camp.)

Automotive designers must be looking at this and the response thinking, why the fuck do we have a whole career doing this when you can make a trapezoid in 5 seconds and it apparently does the trick?
 
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