Cyberpunk 2077: Official Thread

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Are you sure about that tho? I mean I prefer NPCs to acknowledge my character's gender, and not act completely neutral to it. If they replace male / female with a slider, how will NPCs react, or will gender be completely removed from existence?
And no, this does not protect their baby, this alienates supporters as we can all see. And the people who think binary gender options are oppressive were never going to play the game, and cannot be appeased anyway. The best thing they can do to protect their baby is completely ignore them.
Haven't anyone learned anything? If you do as they ask, they'll find another thing to be mad about, so pandering to them is a loose-loose.

The gameplay they just showed today clearly had an NPC refer to the female "strong solo" V by a female pronoun. Also, transgenderism has been a thing in Cyberpunk since the original pen and paper game. Which released in the 80s. Heck, its been part of the entire cyberpunk genre for decades.
 
Are you sure about that tho? I mean I prefer NPCs to acknowledge my character's gender, and not act completely neutral to it. If they replace male / female with a slider, how will NPCs react, or will gender be completely removed from existence?
And no, this does not protect their baby, this alienates supporters as we can all see. And the people who think binary gender options are oppressive were never going to play the game, and cannot be appeased anyway. The best thing they can do to protect their baby is completely ignore them.
Haven't anyone learned anything? If you do as they ask, they'll find another thing to be mad about, so pandering to them is a loose-loose.

I don't disagree with some of your stance, but like the video I posted points out, this actually fits into the lore perfectly. This would be the case in a world where you can swap all your parts out for whatever you feel like. In fact it would likely be worse than the mess we have today. Regardless, if the game is fun and pulls off even half of what they are trying to achieve, I really won't give an augmented meat stick. At most it would be a passing annoyance.
 
The gameplay they just showed today clearly had an NPC refer to the female "strong solo" V by a female pronoun. Also, transgenderism has been a thing in Cyberpunk since the original pen and paper game. Which released in the 80s. Heck, its been part of the entire cyberpunk genre for decades.

I don't disagree with some of your stance, but like the video I posted points out, this actually fits into the lore perfectly. This would be the case in a world where you can swap all your parts out for whatever you feel like. In fact it would likely be worse than the mess we have today. Regardless, if the game is fun and pulls off even half of what they are trying to achieve, I really won't give an augmented meat stick. At most it would be a passing annoyance.
Just because "transgenderism" exists in the universe doesn't mean male / female cannot at the same time. Besides I firmly believe that surgically replacing parts of your body does not alter your gender in any way. It alters your appearance.

Anyhow I hope the body of your character can be customized more than choosing a "body type". Because if that is the only available option, then I would not call that extensive customization as they touted it, hell that barely scratches the basics.
 
Just because "transgenderism" exists in the universe doesn't mean male / female cannot at the same time. Besides I firmly believe that surgically replacing parts of your body does not alter your gender in any way. It alters your appearance.

Anyhow I hope the body of your character can be customized more than choosing a "body type". Because if that is the only available option, then I would not call that extensive customization as they touted it, hell that barely scratches the basics.

Gender, realistically, has little to do with what you have between your legs. That is all about sex. Hence the term "sex reassignment surgery". Gender is nothing more than a societal construct and can be altered at any time society deems it necessary to redefine the norms that make up genders.
 
Gender, realistically, has little to do with what you have between your legs. That is all about sex. Hence the term "sex reassignment surgery". Gender is nothing more than a societal construct and can be altered at any time society deems it necessary to redefine the norms that make up genders.
Gender is biological, not social, you'd better start believing it. Terms however are constructs. No matter what terminology you use to describe it, a person's gender cannot be changed at will. A society can pretend that a man after a sex change surgery is now a woman, but science and biology are stubborn and don't flinch at the whims of society gone wild. And while we are at it my stance is that any invasive surgical operation on a healthy body is a gross violation of the Hippocratic oath. Yes, that includes cosmetic surgery as well.
 
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Gender is biological, not social, you'd better start believing it. Terms however are constructs. No matter what terminology you use to describe it, a person's gender cannot be changed at will. A society can pretend that a man after a sex change surgery is now a woman, but science and biology are stubborn and don't flinch at the whims of society gone wild. And while we are at it my stance is that any invasive surgical operation on a healthy body is a gross violation of the Hippocratic oath. Yes, that includes cosmetic surgery as well.

Sex is biological, gender is social. Don't confuse the terms. And, no, the natural world is a hell of a lot less stubborn than you seem to believe. There are multiple animals that can change their sex. If you get triggered so badly by the idea of someone changing sex or gender the cyberpunk genre probably isn't for you.
 
And so... I like to play women in video games. Why? Because I like to look at women. It is all pretend electrons anyway. People like to get upset at the stupidest things.
 
Sex is biological, gender is social. Don't confuse the terms. And, no, the natural world is a hell of a lot less stubborn than you seem to believe. There are multiple animals that can change their sex. If you get triggered so badly by the idea of someone changing sex or gender the cyberpunk genre probably isn't for you.
Never in my life have I ever heard gender be referred to as social only....in my 36 years of life it has only been biological. Don't try confusing biology with dysphoria.

This has never been a discussion up until the last 4-5 years.....
 
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Never in my life have I ever heard gender be referred to as social only....in my 36 years of life it has only been biological. Don't try confusing biology with dysphoria.

This has never been a discussion up until the last 4-5 years.....

Lol. There are episodes of All in the Family dealing with a transgender character. A show from the early 70s. There is nothing even remotely new about any of this.
 
Never in my life have I ever heard gender be referred to as social only....in my 36 years of life it has only been biological. Don't try confusing biology with dysphoria.

This has never been a discussion up until the last 4-5 years.....

That's because sex and gender are the same thing and are both biologically based... at least they were up until 1940's when a couple of philosophers coined the idea of gender theory. Fast forward to today, and we now live in a #MeToo society where everyone is a snowflake (y)

As for the 15min video... the editing and presentation are absolute crap, and it really doesn't show anything well enough to come to any reasonable conclusion. Still looking forward to playing it next year, but for now, I'll be shelving my hype and carry on with my life.
 
please explain to me why the hell you care about whatever someone calls themselves, male, female, gay, trans, chicken, dog, whatever. doesn't matter to me.

I get that a lot of you are of the opinion people are made to be gay, or choose it. like people choose to live a shitty life of being hated or outcast or whatever.

life is hard enough as it is. add on top of that the buden of being wrong all the time. nobodies life is suddenly going to be wonderful based on gender options. but maybe it will be a little less shitty.
 
That's because sex and gender are the same thing and are both biologically based... at least they were up until 1940's when a couple of philosophers coined the idea of gender theory. Fast forward to today, and we now live in a #MeToo society where everyone is a snowflake (y)

As for the 15min video... the editing and presentation are absolute crap, and it really doesn't show anything well enough to come to any reasonable conclusion. Still looking forward to playing it next year, but for now, I'll be shelving my hype and carry on with my life.

The more study is done on something the more we find out how wrong old theories on it were. That's the nature of scientific advancement. It has fuck all to do with "snowflakes" (though I imagine you are one yourself, most people that throw the term around tend to be just as easy to offend as those they bitch about) and more to do with ongoing studies of how the insanely complex human brain is, not to mention our own bodies.
 
The more study is done on something the more we find out how wrong old theories on it were. That's the nature of scientific advancement. It has fuck all to do with "snowflakes" (though I imagine you are one yourself, most people that throw the term around tend to be just as easy to offend as those they bitch about) and more to do with ongoing studies of how the insanely complex human brain is, not to mention our own bodies.
We considering that there are only two biological options with sets of chromosomes either XY or XY (with the outlier of XXY) there is no other combination. Everything else its in someones brain. XXY is a unnatural mutation, So basically its just someone who wants to think they are something they are biologically not.


The fact that these people want an option to have a transgender "character" in a video is just ridiculous, play the game as you identify and move the hell along. The insane idea of wanting to shove this garbage in the face and down the throats of other people needs to go away.
 
The fact that these people complain about having an option to have a transgender "character" in a video is just ridiculous, play the game as you identify and move the hell along.


Fixed that for you.

This Cyberpunk 2077 game discussion is really getting into Soapbox territory, so why not take it to the echo chamber and call it a day.
 
We considering that there are only two biological options with sets of chromosomes either XY or XY (with the outlier of XXY) there is no other combination. Everything else its in someones brain. XXY is a unnatural mutation, So basically its just someone who wants to think they are something they are biologically not.


The fact that these people want an option to have a transgender "character" in a video is just ridiculous, play the game as you identify and move the hell along. The insane idea of wanting to shove this garbage in the face and down the throats of other people needs to go away.

Again, transgenderism has been a thing for the cyberpunk genre for decades, including the fucking pen and paper game this is based on. Also, having more options of character creation is never a bad thing. The ONLY reason people are getting triggered over this is because they want something to bitch about and have no fucking clue what the genre is or its history. No one whined like a little child when Saint's Row did it.
 
Sex is biological, gender is social. Don't confuse the terms. And, no, the natural world is a hell of a lot less stubborn than you seem to believe. There are multiple animals that can change their sex. If you get triggered so badly by the idea of someone changing sex or gender the cyberpunk genre probably isn't for you.
Repeating the same thing again won't magically make it an argument. People are either biological males or females. And whatever label you put on yourself won't change your sex. You can pretend anything but you can't force others to join your role playing game. And if butterflies have wings, people can have wings too, is that your point?
 
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please explain to me why the hell you care about whatever someone calls themselves, male, female, gay, trans, chicken, dog, whatever. doesn't matter to me.

I get that a lot of you are of the opinion people are made to be gay, or choose it. like people choose to live a shitty life of being hated or outcast or whatever.

life is hard enough as it is. add on top of that the buden of being wrong all the time. nobodies life is suddenly going to be wonderful based on gender options. but maybe it will be a little less shitty.
I don't care what others call themselves as long as they aren't forcing me to call them something. If a game disallows me from creating a female or male character that's not more options, that's actually less.

And gay is not transgender. I have zero issues with gay people. I have problems with helicopters who want to force me to call them helicopters because that's how they feel. in fact they want to criminalize me for not calling them what they want to be called. That's where we start having problems.
And if the game wants to pander to those people who wants to dictate what others should do I start to have problems with the game as well.

I don't have a problem with the game having transgender option either. I Have a problem with the game removing the choice of male / female. Body type has nothing to do with gender, and conflating the two earns a giant hell no from me.
 
Repeating the same thing again won't magically make it an argument. People are either biological males or females. And whatever label you put on yourself won't change your sex. You can pretend anything but you can't force others to join your role playing game.

and... what you are saying is not true. there are abnormal chromosome cases, cases where people have both sets of sex organs and other types of cases.

You can pretend that everyone should go into 2 buckets but that is just another lie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite
 
and... what you are saying is not true. there are abnormal chromosome cases, cases where people have both sets of sex organs and other types of cases.

You can pretend that everyone should go into 2 buckets but that is just another lie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite
FYI I originally added that to my sentence, but then removed it deliberately for the sake of clarity. Since the people having the argument who want to pretend they are gender less are not hermaphrodites.
But thanks for showing your colors and calling me a liar.

Not to mention a hermaphrodite is anything but genderless. It's an unfortunate mutation just as siamese twins are. Or do you wish to pretend that is natural as well?
 
I don't care what others call themselves as long as they aren't forcing me to call them something. If a game disallows me from creating a female or male character that's not more options, that's actually less.

And gay is not transgender. I have zero issues with gay people. I have problems with helicopters who want to force me to call them helicopters because that's how they feel. in fact they want to criminalize me for not calling them what they want to be called. That's where we start having problems.
And if the game wants to pander to those people who wants to dictate what others should do I start to have problems with the game as well.

I don't have a problem with the game having transgender option either. I Have a problem with the game removing the choice of male / female. Body type has nothing to do with gender, and conflating the two earns a giant hell no from me.

Did you miss the part where the gameplay video they released had NPCs clearly calling the "strong solo" V by female pronouns? There has been a lot of of bad reporting on what the game is doing. They're not removing the option to be male or female, what they did was change it so the body types aren't listed as "male" and "female" like they were in previous builds. Now its just body types and people can mix and match more than they could previously. There is still an option that ties the character to being male or female (maybe the choice of character voice?). They're not going back and re-recording every singe line of a dialog that used male or female pronouns and removing them from the game.
 
Did you miss the part where the gameplay video they released had NPCs clearly calling the "strong solo" V by female pronouns? There has been a lot of of bad reporting on what the game is doing. They're not removing the option to be male or female, what they did was change it so the body types aren't listed as "male" and "female" like they were in previous builds. Now its just body types and people can mix and match more than they could previously. There is still an option that ties the character to being male or female (maybe the choice of character voice?). They're not going back and re-recording every singe line of a dialog that used male or female pronouns and removing them from the game.
Since they announced this change recently I Don't expect a gameplay demo recorded months ago to reflect the change. And what the narrator says is besides the point anyway. It's how the game world reacts that is important.

Are you saying that previously they had an option for the character to be male or female, and a separate option for male / female body? That doesn't sound legit to me.

It seems to me that they had male / female as an option which predetermined the body type. That they replaced with a body type option and male / female doesn't appear anywhere in the character creator.
 
FYI I originally added that to my sentence, but then removed it deliberately for the sake of clarity. Since the people having the argument who want to pretend they are gender less are not hermaphrodites.
But thanks for showing your colors and calling me a liar.

Not to mention a hermaphrodite is anything but genderless. It's an unfortunate mutation just as siamese twins are. Or do you wish to pretend that is natural as well?

anything that happens in nature is by definition natural. you acknowledge that "genetics cause x to happen in the body/brain" and yet you have a problem with "something other than genetics causing x to happen in the body/brain".

I get that you may be hardwired to feel disgust at the thought of same sex attraction, but all the same, that is not a "truth" for all people. It is a spectrum, and for some people it is completely opposite.

Anyway, net results, this game is not for you. Just move on and play something else that allows you to reinforce your gender as an exclusive thing.
 
Since they announced this change recently I Don't expect a gameplay demo recorded months ago to reflect the change.

Are you saying that previously they had an option for the character to be male or female, and a separate option for male / female body? That doesn't sound legit to me.

The change was done months ago as well. The change to character creation was shown off back at E3. Just, no one made a big deal about it until that Metro interview that led to a ton of bad reporting.

This was the initial choice in the version from last year:
https://static3.gamerantimages.com/...erpunk-2077-genderless-character-creation.jpg

And this is from the E3/Gamescom build:
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/iDi...orus_asset/file/19154290/character_models.jpg

So its still the same two choices, but that choice isn't the one that locks V into being male or female. So you could pick the option that was previously labeled as "M" and have that V still be female. Sadly, it doesn't look like they've expanded the body type choices beyond that.
 
anything that happens in nature is by definition natural. you acknowledge that "genetics cause x to happen in the body/brain" and yet you have a problem with "something other than genetics causing x to happen in the body/brain".

I get that you may be hardwired to feel disgust at the thought of same sex attraction, but all the same, that is not a "truth" for all people. It is a spectrum, and for some people it is completely opposite.

Anyway, net results, this game is not for you. Just move on and play something else that allows you to reinforce your gender as an exclusive thing.
And again with the assumptions. I don't feel disgust at same sex attraction. I feel disgust when things are forced on me against my will. Why do I have to like what others like? I mean I wouldn't want to force my sexual ideals on others by making it an exclusive choice in any game.

BTW If we are talking about evolution, that no longer applies to humanity due to medicine and our ability to communicate and cooperate. Now I'm not saying that is a bad thing, I'm saying if you want 100% natural that would be letting everyone die who have traits that are unfit for survival.

If the brain refuses to accept the body it's in, it's not the body that is the problem, as long as it is a healthy male / female body. These are people who want to change the world to their assumed world view, instead of accepting reality and adopting a world view that fits reality. So basically every far left progressive.

Whatever body / genitalia you have is real, whatever you think you should have is unreal.
 
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What exactly is CDPR "forcing" upon you? Is there a "gay" slider that goes from 0 to 100%? And gay people are natural. Given the fact that pure gay people do not breed and hetero people continue producing them it is not a genetic trait as such. If a group of people want to self-select out of the gene pool you should be all for that.

EDIT: BTW, I am a straight male, and you know what I will be playing? A woman, with big t&a, having as many lesbian relationships as possible. As will be many of our youth. Does that thought scare you? That this game can become a gay simulator?

Its like my witcher character, he never said no to any relationship... and there were consequences. But that is life.
 
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Fixed that for you.

This Cyberpunk 2077 game discussion is really getting into Soapbox territory, so why not take it to the echo chamber and call it a day.
I think you F-ed it up more than fixed anything. The whole idea behind trasgender is ID'ing you self as the opposite biological sex so you can be a male biologically and ID as a woman, so select the woman character and pretend she is your extension.... How do you create a transgender character when there is in all reality 2 type of biological people? Like Jiminator said he will play as a female, good on him. People really lack in imagination for real.....
This is just the outrage culture trying to flex and ruin stuff for others.

I will play the game and not really care what people think or even try to project about it.......i'm interested in the story not peoples opinions.
 
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Gender has always been a social construct, that's never really been up for a debate. The issue was before that (and many of these same people hated video games, d&d, rap music, rock music, comic books) people who got very upset about issues concerning sex enacted horrific violence against people they didn't approve of and thought were icky.... luckily those people don't have much power anymore and that's only going to keep decreasing.

Get out of right wing christian society types who have mental break downs over things they don't like and you'll see gender fluid situations, characters, people, all through history. Hell the cyber punk genre is heavy on this, native americans openly celebrated the "two spirits" types among them. This didn't just crop up now, it's just insecure christians don't get to dictate culture they way they once did.
 
Gender has always been a social construct, that's never really been up for a debate. The issue was before that (and many of these same people hated video games, d&d, rap music, rock music, comic books) people who got very upset about issues concerning sex enacted horrific violence against people they didn't approve of and thought were icky.... luckily those people don't have much power anymore and that's only going to keep decreasing.

Get out of right wing christian society types who have mental break downs over things they don't like and you'll see gender fluid situations, characters, people, all through history. Hell the cyber punk genre is heavy on this, native americans openly celebrated the "two spirits" types among them. This didn't just crop up now, it's just insecure christians don't get to dictate culture they way they once did.
And the Left has everything figured out? LMAO Right wing vs Left wing is a joke. Pull you head out of the political ass.....politics should never have control over everyday life. Regardless of beliefs.

Also if there isn't any social construct then its only chaos and people will self destruct......that's why we have such deterioration of society now. There still needs to be some rules that have to be followed.
 
What exactly is CDPR "forcing" upon you? Is there a "gay" slider that goes from 0 to 100%? And gay people are natural. Given the fact that pure gay people do not breed and hetero people continue producing them it is not a genetic trait as such. If a group of people want to self-select out of the gene pool you should be all for that.

EDIT: BTW, I am a straight male, and you know what I will be playing? A woman, with big t&a, having as many lesbian relationships as possible. As will be many of our youth. Does that thought scare you? That this game can become a gay simulator?

Its like my witcher character, he never said no to any relationship... and there were consequences. But that is life.
The game is forcing a gender neutral character on me from how things seem now. So, no you won't be playing a woman, you'll be playing a character whose gender shall not be named with a body that is not defined by the game as female, just as a type of body. Completely stupid and makes zero sense when put in context. wouldn't you agree?

I just called you out for assumptions and what do you do? Make even more outlandish assumptions. You're a picture perfect example of a left wing activist who still doubles down on something after repeatedly being told that something is ridiculous.
Just so you know, I play female characters in RPGs about 90% of the time. And some were gay. And I even played as a gay man for the hell of it once. That should really scare you, because it means all your lies and accusations you are throwing at me were all meaningless, but most importantly it shows that your world view of people who don't agree with the notion that gender is a social construct are homophobes. Phobia the far left sure likes that word, but it does not mean what they think it means. A phobia is an irrational fear of something. And true I fear of genders being erased from public discourse and media. But that is not an irrational fear as the clear example of this game shows.

Oh and, please quote me when your reply so I get notified. I don't want your bogus claims to go unchallenged for days.
 
politics should never have control over everyday life. Regardless of beliefs.
Exactly, politics are meaningless, it's an extremely ineffective way to govern society. I vote on people who agree with me on gender politics, but their job is to keep the system running and provide social services. Politicisans are the most unqualified people to run a government yet they happen to do it because they said the right buzzwords.If you ask any politician about an actual problem that needs fixing they'll have no answer. Because every problem in the world is technical and not political. How do you provide food where there is a famine, how do you put out forest fires? The solution is always technology, yet politicians decide about them.
 
The game is forcing a gender neutral character on me from how things seem now. So, no you won't be playing a woman, you'll be playing a character whose gender shall not be named with a body that is not defined by the game as female, just as a type of body. Completely stupid and makes zero sense when put in context. wouldn't you agree?

I just called you out for assumptions and what do you do? Make even more outlandish assumptions. You're a picture perfect example of a left wing activist who still doubles down on something after repeatedly being told that something is ridiculous.
Just so you know, I play female characters in RPGs about 90% of the time. And some were gay. And I even played as a gay man for the hell of it once. That should really scare you, because it means all your lies and accusations you are throwing at me were all meaningless, but most importantly it shows that your world view of people who don't agree with the notion that gender is a social construct are homophobes. Phobia the far left sure likes that word, but it does not mean what they think it means. A phobia is an irrational fear of something. And true I fear of genders being erased from public discourse and media. But that is not an irrational fear as the clear example of this game shows.

Oh and, please quote me when your reply so I get notified. I don't want your bogus claims to go unchallenged for days.

I'm not sure what point you are making. what gender is pikachu? or other video game characters? It is all pretend electrons. You want to claim some types of pretending is fine, others are not. sure. whatever. so the outrage is about the pretending parameters. That is like some of the stupidest things in the world to be outraged about.
 
I'm not sure what point you are making. what gender is pikachu? or other video game characters? It is all pretend electrons. You want to claim some types of pretending is fine, others are not. sure. whatever. so the outrage is about the pretending parameters. That is like some of the stupidest things in the world to be outraged about.
LOL, that's the worst dodge if I ever saw one. Clearly cyberpunk characters aren't pikachus but human, and they should have gender options.
 
LOL, that's the worst dodge if I ever saw one. Clearly cyberpunk characters aren't pikachus but human, and they should have gender options.

what gender options did the witcher have? What gender options do any number of games have, where you are locked into one specific character?
 
what gender options did the witcher have? What gender options do any number of games have, where you are locked into one specific character?
That's a poor argument because the whole story is based on the very specific character. Gender and all.
Please stop hijacking the thread its supposed to be about CP2077 not any other games.
 
Please stop hijacking the thread its supposed to be about CP2077 not any other games.

It doesn't really seem like this thread of about CP2077 anymore anyway.

I'm really struggling to decipher what people are upset about. What I've read states you can choose a physical body that is either masculine or feminine, and then you get to choose a voice that is either masculine or feminine. Want to play a dude, pick both the masculine options. Girl, then pick both the feminine options. If someone else wants to play with a woman's body and a guy's voice, why the fuck does that matter what someone else does in their private, personal, offline game? Do ya'll really take issue just knowing that someone, somewhere, has a trans video game character in a game you play?

Or are we all just worried about a hypothetical lack of gender pronouns? I'm not sure that would be a very big issue regardless, dialog heavy games with character customization tend to avoid them anyways from a logistics standpoint. The more that CDPR is able to refer to the player by name or by neutral pronouns like you, them, they, etc. the less lines of dialog they have to record, which I'm sure is pretty attractive given the likely staggering number of lines that exist already. Gender neutral pronouns (in this instance) aren't part of some SJW movement. Pure and simple, more dialog means more time and more money.

More importantly, if something that insignificant can ruin what is likely to be an absolute mastercraft in RPG games, ya'll need to seriously evaluate the things that upset you. It's just a fucking pronoun, get over it and enjoy the game.
 
The basic cyberpunk theme is to do whatever you want/can with your body. in the previews it is obvious that people have prosthetics. It shows a woman with mouth/jaw completely missing while applying makeup. I am guessing the mouth/jaw will be something she chooses/plugs in for her event.
In a similar theme I would not be surprised if genitalia/sexual characteristics were things you could plug in, remove or swap at will. So the arguments from a biological basis just do not apply. Internet troll fake outrage 101. Find something nobody really cares about and pretend it is an issue. Get clicks. $PROFIT$
 
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