Microsoft Updated its terms of service

chaos4u

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
349
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/servicesagreement/upcoming.aspx
interesting tid bit,

b. To the extent necessary to provide the Services to you and others, to protect you and the Services, and to improve Microsoft products and services, you grant to Microsoft a worldwide and royalty-free intellectual property license to use Your Content


debate it how ever you like as a necessity ... but that is a very broad licenses and give MS the right to use any thing of yours that they want.

also the code of conduct i interesting to ..

better keep in check that potty mouth while gaming as you may find your MS service terminated lol...
 
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List of services this applies to

TLDR they own the data you put into their cloud services. WIth some exceptions being Edge and some other downloadable windows tools. But Windows itself seems to be excluded.

Seems to bee a pretty stand clause with cloud services.

Remember everybody if you don't pay for it you are the product.

Code:
Account.microsoft.com
Advertising.microsoft.com
Ask Cortana
Bing App for Android
Bing Apps
Bing Bots
Bing Business Bot
Bing Desktop
Bing Dictionary
Bing for Business
Bing Image and News (iOS)
Bing in the Classroom
Bing Maps
Bing Music Bot
Bing Search APIs/SDKs
Bing Search app
Bing Sportscaster
Bing Toolbar
Bing Translator
Bing Webmaster
Bing Wikipedia Browser
Bing.com
Bing
Bingplaces.com
Citizen Next
Cortana skills by Microsoft
Cortana
Default Homepage and New Tab Page on Microsoft Edge
Dev Center App
Device Health App
Dictate
Docs.com
Education.minecraft.net
Experts for PowerPoint (Preview)
Face Swap
Feedback Intake Tool for Azure Maps (aka “Azure Maps Feedback”)
Forms.microsoft.com
Forzamotorsport.net
Groove Music Pass
Groove
GroupMe
HealthVault
LineBack
Manufacturers.bing.com
Maps App
Microsoft Academic
Microsoft account
Microsoft Add-Ins for Skype
Microsoft Bots
Microsoft Educator Community
Microsoft Family
Microsoft Health
Microsoft Movies & TV
Microsoft Pay
Microsoft Research Interactive Science
Microsoft Research Open Data
Microsoft Soundscape
Microsoft Support and Recovery Assistant for Office 365
Microsoft Translator
Microsoft Wallpaper
Microsoft XiaoIce
Mixer
MSN Dial Up
MSN Explorer
MSN Food & Drink
MSN Health & Fitness
MSN Money
MSN News
MSN Premium
MSN Sports
MSN Travel
MSN Weather
MSN.com
Next Lock Screen
Office 365 Consumer
Office 365 Home
Office 365 Personal
Office 365 Pro Plus optional connected experiences
Office 365 University
Office Online
Office Store
Office Sway
Office.com
OneDrive.com
OneDrive
OneNote.com
Outlook.com
Paint 3D
Picturesque Lock Screen
Presentation Translator
Remix 3D
Rinna
rise4fun
Ruuh
Seeing AI
Send
Skype in the Classroom
Skype Interviews
Skype Manager
Skype Qik
Skype.com
Skype
Smart Search
Snip Insights
Spreadsheet Keyboard
Sprinkles
Store
Sway.com
to-do.microsoft.com
Translator for Microsoft Edge
Translator Live
UrWeather
Video Breakdown
Visio Online
Web Translator
Who’s In
Windows games, apps and websites published by Microsoft
Windows Movie Maker
Windows Photo Gallery
Windows Store
Windows Live Mail
Windows Live Writer
Word Flow
Xbox Game Pass
Xbox Game Studios games, apps and websites
Xbox Live Gold
Xbox Live
Xbox Music
Xbox Store
Zo
[/LIST]
[code]

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/servicesagreement/upcoming.aspx#serviceslist
 
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/servicesagreement/upcoming.aspx
interesting tid bit,

b. To the extent necessary to provide the Services to you and others, to protect you and the Services, and to improve Microsoft products and services, you grant to Microsoft a worldwide and royalty-free intellectual property license to use Your Content


debate it how ever you like as a necessity ... but that a very broad licenses and give MS the right to use any thing of yours that they want.

also the code of conduct i interesting to ..

better keep in check that potty mouth while gaming as you may find your MS service terminated lol...


This is in prep for takeover over github content.
 
basically anything you create/save/send, receive, or store on a device using their win10/cloud platform, they can use for whatever purpose they want. period.

Win10 is not included. See the above list.
 
Only thing I use Microsoft's cloud for is my save games on Xbox and the Microsoft Store. So no big deal to me.
 
They need this for a CYA policy regarding data backups internally, otherwise you could sue them for backing up your cloud saved data to an off site location with out your knowledge and various other things. If they claim ownership of the data then it is theirs to backup transfer or yes even sift through (not that there is any gain in doing that) as they need to. Also covers them in the event of a data loss, OneDrive dyes because of a fire and your stuff is lost, too bad can't sue because the stored data wasn't yours. Just about every cloud service I have ever seen has this in there, so I am surprised that MS didn't have it in there before.
 
while true, the way one drive is integrated into windows 10 lends its self quite easily to having ones work becoming Microsoft's intellectual property.

Only if you sign in with a Microsoft account. Local accounts just prompt you to set up the connection.
 
They need this for a CYA policy regarding data backups internally, otherwise you could sue them for backing up your cloud saved data to an off site location with out your knowledge and various other things. If they claim ownership of the data then it is theirs to backup transfer or yes even sift through (not that there is any gain in doing that) as they need to. Also covers them in the event of a data loss, OneDrive dyes because of a fire and your stuff is lost, too bad can't sue because the stored data wasn't yours. Just about every cloud service I have ever seen has this in there, so I am surprised that MS didn't have it in there before.

Yeah, this is a very common type of over-broad-on-purpose clause. This exact wording has been seen in plenty of other policies and some companies even come out and say that it's mostly a CYA thing. People have gotten worked up about this type of policy wording before, but it really sounds worse than it is. It's less Microsoft's fault and more just a downside of how they have to legally stay clean. I think worrying about it too much or assuming malicious intent here is overreaction.

Not that the concerns aren't legitimate. It is an issue that companies, to protect themselves legally, have to go via routes like this. Because I could see it opening up the potential for companies to abuse the clause and still leave a victim with no recourse
 
Win10 is not included. See the above list.

well what about MS office??!! did you read that list of apps? let me just post a few

Office 365 Consumer
Office 365 Home
Office 365 Personal
Office 365 Pro Plus optional connected experiences
Office 365 University
Office Online
Office Store
Office Sway
Office.com
OneDrive.com
OneDrive
OneNote.com
Outlook.com
Paint 3D
OneDrive
Default Homepage and New Tab Page on Microsoft Edge
Ask Cortana
MSN Dial Up
MSN Explorer
Microsoft Family
Microsoft Health
Microsoft Movies & TV
Bing Maps
Bing
Account.microsoft.com
Advertising.microsoft.com
Windows Movie Maker
Windows Photo Gallery
Windows Store
Windows Live Mail
Windows Live Writer
Skype in the Classroom
Skype Interviews
Skype Manager
Skype Qik
Skype.com
Skype

if you can't see where this is heading you must be blind.

so if you really don't care who access' all your personal info why don't you go ahead and setup a GoToMeeting login and post it here on the site. i wouldn't mind having a look around on your system.
 
so if you really don't care who access' all your personal info why don't you go ahead and setup a GoToMeeting login and post it here on the site. i wouldn't mind having a look around on your system.

Sure, but first, why do you want to look? Microsoft is offering "services" for this. What's your offer?
 
Win10 is not included. See the above list.

Because it's going to become a shell of what it currently is and form the core of Microsoft's cloud based offering 'Windows As A Service' style...

Hopefully without the NT kernel.
 
Only if you sign in with a Microsoft account. Local accounts just prompt you to set up the connection.

And the cloud based part of the Windows 10 Home installer has changed to not allow the creation of local accounts when installing Windows 10 Home, it's been that way on the last few installs for me - Total PITA when installing Windows on a new PC for a client.

And yes I tried every option to get around it and no, there's no way around it.
 
And the cloud based part of the Windows 10 Home installer has changed to not allow the creation of local accounts when installing Windows 10 Home, it's been that way on the last few installs for me - Total PITA when installing Windows on a new PC for a client.

And yes I tried every option to get around it and no, there's no way around it.

I'm almost positive there's still a way around it. I think you have to click past the "create a Microsoft account" and then on the next screen you can say "no, I want a local account".

In any event, there's an alternative, although it's not as good--I just found it out last week because I swapped out my CPU and motherbaord, and Windows unactivated on me. At some point they got rid of the ability to dial an 800 number and type in a really long number and get a really long number back to reactivate. Instead, you need to sign in with an MS account to tie your key to that account, so you can reactivate Windows later if need be. Afterwards, you can just go to Settings, create a local account, sign out of the MS account, and then sign back in with the local account. Again, not ideal, but it works.

I did a fresh install a few months ago and I would swear you could still create a local account but I'd have to actually do a fresh one now to check. You definitely can still do it with Pro because I did that recently when I upgraded the SSD on my work Dell and the recovery USB turned out to be not an install USB.
 
Sure, but first, why do you want to look? Microsoft is offering "services" for this. What's your offer?
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
Or in this case, privacy for "free" shit.
 
I'm almost positive there's still a way around it. I think you have to click past the "create a Microsoft account" and then on the next screen you can say "no, I want a local account".

In any event, there's an alternative, although it's not as good--I just found it out last week because I swapped out my CPU and motherbaord, and Windows unactivated on me. At some point they got rid of the ability to dial an 800 number and type in a really long number and get a really long number back to reactivate. Instead, you need to sign in with an MS account to tie your key to that account, so you can reactivate Windows later if need be. Afterwards, you can just go to Settings, create a local account, sign out of the MS account, and then sign back in with the local account. Again, not ideal, but it works.

I did a fresh install a few months ago and I would swear you could still create a local account but I'd have to actually do a fresh one now to check. You definitely can still do it with Pro because I did that recently when I upgraded the SSD on my work Dell and the recovery USB turned out to be not an install USB.

Screen 1:

MpbSFWd.jpg


Screen 2 (After clicking 'Create Account'):

E9cac5w.jpg


And no, you can't just click next and skip this section. I've installed Windows 10 Home numerous times since I first noticed this change and every time there has been absolutely no way to make a local account.
 
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well what about MS office??!! did you read that list of apps?

if you can't see where this is heading you must be blind.

Clippy.jpg


We're overdue for a revolt against this privatized mass-surveillance. It's creepy enough that some mouth breathing treehouse dweller at Microsoft has this kind of power, but I'm honestly more concerned about how the data gets used and abused down the line.

Just about every cloud service I have ever seen has this in there, so I am surprised that MS didn't have it in there before.

They all have these TOS agreements because they all know that securing their data is impossible.

With that in mind I think its a deceptive/unfair business practice to retain user data and promise data security while simultaneously preventing users from suing via TOS agreements. Particularly for a company in a monopoly position where users really don't have the ability to opt out of these 'services.'
 
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The reason for this clause is literally so MS can make copies of the files in question for the actual service to work as intended. The OP ignored the important part of the same section :

We don’t claim ownership of Your Content. Your Content remains Your Content and you are responsible for it.

The part OP cited is about as simple things as being able to have your file on multiple servers. You upload your file to OneDrive, file is put on US server. For performance reasons (for example you are an international traveler), MS might decide that it is good to make a copy of that file on an European OneDrive servers, because you are there for few weeks. Now they could either serve you the file from US (with a 150ms ping, plus going through many connections), or have the file available at the regional data center. But to be able to legally "clone" the file between datacenters, you need to grant them this right, or you could sue them for making illegal copies of your files.
Same with automated backups - if you didn't give them this right, an automated tape backup of your OneDrive account would count as 'illegal copy' from viewpoint of law.

We could go on, but in the end, you cannot take a subsection of an agreement out of context and twist it around.

And if you go through the list of apps:
  • Office is documents stored in cloud (OneDrive)
  • OneDrive is obvious
  • OneNote.com is again for your notes on OneDrive
  • Outlook.com is obvious, your emails stored on their email servers
  • Paint3D - 3D Library is cloud based
  • we could go on, but each of the apps or services mentioned in the list has an online component tied to OneDrive or Azure somehow, and that is the part covered by that service agreement.
 
basically anything you create/save/send, receive, or store on a device using their win10/cloud platform, they can use for whatever purpose they want. period.

I got a reply for them, go fuk yourself.
 
I'm almost positive there's still a way around it. I think you have to click past the "create a Microsoft account" and then on the next screen you can say "no, I want a local account".

In any event, there's an alternative, although it's not as good--I just found it out last week because I swapped out my CPU and motherbaord, and Windows unactivated on me. At some point they got rid of the ability to dial an 800 number and type in a really long number and get a really long number back to reactivate. Instead, you need to sign in with an MS account to tie your key to that account, so you can reactivate Windows later if need be. Afterwards, you can just go to Settings, create a local account, sign out of the MS account, and then sign back in with the local account. Again, not ideal, but it works.

I did a fresh install a few months ago and I would swear you could still create a local account but I'd have to actually do a fresh one now to check. You definitely can still do it with Pro because I did that recently when I upgraded the SSD on my work Dell and the recovery USB turned out to be not an install USB.

I am not sure what this cloud install stuff he is referring to is. However, using a local account on a Windows 10 Home machine with a clean install remains completely unchanged, it is exactly like installing Windows 10 Pro.
 
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/servicesagreement/upcoming.aspx
interesting tid bit,

b. To the extent necessary to provide the Services to you and others, to protect you and the Services, and to improve Microsoft products and services, you grant to Microsoft a worldwide and royalty-free intellectual property license to use Your Content


debate it how ever you like as a necessity ... but that is a very broad licenses and give MS the right to use any thing of yours that they want.

also the code of conduct i interesting to ..

better keep in check that potty mouth while gaming as you may find your MS service terminated lol...


They need this for a CYA policy regarding data backups internally, otherwise you could sue them for backing up your cloud saved data to an off site location with out your knowledge and various other things. If they claim ownership of the data then it is theirs to backup transfer or yes even sift through (not that there is any gain in doing that) as they need to. Also covers them in the event of a data loss, OneDrive dyes because of a fire and your stuff is lost, too bad can't sue because the stored data wasn't yours. Just about every cloud service I have ever seen has this in there, so I am surprised that MS didn't have it in there before.


Just because these clauses are in their terms of service doesn't mean they are legal. No contract, Eula, or terms of service can take away your legal rights, nor can they legally force you to give up or share ownership of your legally owned material. In all reality, if what Lakados describes is accurate , storage facilities, apartment complexes, etc would have the same wording in their contracts to protect themselves from damages if anything where to happen. If there was a fire, and they lost your data, you can bet your ass they would be sued and they would lose for not having proper back up measures in place.

This also violates privacy laws. The only entity that can sift thru your stored data is law enforcement, with a court order.
 
Silicon Valley is moving to lock it all down including necessary aspects of Linux. They aren't going to stop unless made to stop.
 
Screen 2 (After clicking 'Create Account'):

View attachment 174412

And no, you can't just click next and skip this section. I've installed Windows 10 Home numerous times since I first noticed this change and every time there has been absolutely no way to make a local account.

What version of Win10 is that? I still get "Sign in without a Microsoft account" (as detailed here: https://4sysops.com/archives/install-windows-10-with-a-local-account/ ) when installing Pro or Enterprise. I have not touched a MS "home" product in years.
 
The reason for this clause is literally so MS can make copies of the files in question for the actual service to work as intended. The OP ignored the important part of the same section :

We don’t claim ownership of Your Content. Your Content remains Your Content and you are responsible for it.

The part OP cited is about as simple things as being able to have your file on multiple servers. You upload your file to OneDrive, file is put on US server. For performance reasons (for example you are an international traveler), MS might decide that it is good to make a copy of that file on an European OneDrive servers, because you are there for few weeks. Now they could either serve you the file from US (with a 150ms ping, plus going through many connections), or have the file available at the regional data center. But to be able to legally "clone" the file between datacenters, you need to grant them this right, or you could sue them for making illegal copies of your files.
Same with automated backups - if you didn't give them this right, an automated tape backup of your OneDrive account would count as 'illegal copy' from viewpoint of law.

We could go on, but in the end, you cannot take a subsection of an agreement out of context and twist it around.

And if you go through the list of apps:
  • Office is documents stored in cloud (OneDrive)
  • OneDrive is obvious
  • OneNote.com is again for your notes on OneDrive
  • Outlook.com is obvious, your emails stored on their email servers
  • Paint3D - 3D Library is cloud based
  • we could go on, but each of the apps or services mentioned in the list has an online component tied to OneDrive or Azure somehow, and that is the part covered by that service agreement.
This is a justification of it.

Just because it can be rationalized for a benign reason doesn't mean the concerns are invalid.
 
This is a justification of it.

Just because it can be rationalized for a benign reason doesn't mean the concerns are invalid.

You need to remember these documents are written by lawyers, not engineers. Lawyers can't be bothered to enumerate exact use cases, because that would require the inclusion of engineers.
 
github doesn't respond on the support request (from a pro/paid user) to clarify if they are affected by this change. I fear they are affected.

"Windows games, apps and websites published by Microsoft"
 
no need for a royalty-free intellectual property license to do what microsoft needs with your data , it could be written as a simple replication of data clause to guarantee functioning of services.

they dont need rights to your content with a stated clause dictating they can use your content in their promotional materials.
 
View attachment 174413

We're overdue for a revolt against this privatized mass-surveillance. It's creepy enough that some mouth breathing treehouse dweller at Microsoft has this kind of power, but I'm honestly more concerned about how the data gets used and abused down the line.



They all have these TOS agreements because they all know that securing their data is impossible.

With that in mind I think its a deceptive/unfair business practice to retain user data and promise data security while simultaneously preventing users from suing via TOS agreements. Particularly for a company in a monopoly position where users really don't have the ability to opt out of these 'services.'
They can probably provide better security than most are capable of themselves. But under their previous rules if your password say got brute forces because you chose P@ssword1! and your stuff got stolen and deleted you could sue in some countries for them failing to properly identify the user logging in. With the new terms that becomes near impossible. But let’s face it now it’s better to assume your data is already compromised and you are trying to mitigate the damage than it is to assume your system is impregnable.
 
Just because these clauses are in their terms of service doesn't mean they are legal. No contract, Eula, or terms of service can take away your legal rights, nor can they legally force you to give up or share ownership of your legally owned material. In all reality, if what Lakados describes is accurate , storage facilities, apartment complexes, etc would have the same wording in their contracts to protect themselves from damages if anything where to happen. If there was a fire, and they lost your data, you can bet your ass they would be sued and they would lose for not having proper back up measures in place.

This also violates privacy laws. The only entity that can sift thru your stored data is law enforcement, with a court order.
They don't sift through data but they can analyze it, there is a difference, file size, data type, average time between edits, how long a file sits dormant after initial creation, number of collaborative users working on a document and of what type, are files mostly worked on what platform and in what web browser. This is all valuable meta data that is completely independent of the documents contents that assists them in better storing and sorting the content and further improving their services. And yes Just about every storage facility, apartment complex, and hosted data facility have clauses that clear them legally in the events of disaster, there is nothing to sue for because you have to prove that your data has a monetary non replaceable value and in the event it did you should have had insurance on it to begin with and that is exactly what they will argue and they will win every time. You are responsible for your data and your data's backups, nobody should ever be relying on a single source Onedrive, iCloud, Dropbox all of them recommend that you have your data securely backed up on another medium as none of them guarantee anything other than that for as long as they are operating they are more than willing to accept your money.

Edit*
This is why renters insurance and direct damage property insurance are a thing, and in the case of businesses often sold along side Business income coverage and extra expense coverage, in the event of something catastrophic where a datacenter burns down or is swallowed in an earthquake all they need to do is prove that the loss wasn't due to willful negligence on their part, and they are covered and their users are hooped.
 
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I am not sure what this cloud install stuff he is referring to is. However, using a local account on a Windows 10 Home machine with a clean install remains completely unchanged, it is exactly like installing Windows 10 Pro.

That is the installer screen, the OOBE 'is cloud based', it is downloaded from Microsoft's servers every time you install Windows even if you do not change install media.

So, once again for those that cant read, you cannot create a local account under Windows 10 Home anymore upon installation if you get the OOBE I've experienced about the last twenty times I installed Windows 10 Home.

That looks like a very old version of Windows 10. At that point, if he unplugs the computer from the network, it will skip that screen automatically and as for a local account to be created.

That's 1809 and I want to update while installing so these machines will be connected to the internet while installing as there's always updates available, eventually the OOBE in the install media will be changed to reflect this limitation anyway.

You'll always twist criticism of Windows like Microsoft are your mates, are you aware of that? I may seem negative in relation to Windows, but there's a difference between negative and realistic.
 
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That is the installer screen, the OOBE 'is cloud based', it is downloaded from Microsoft's servers every time you install Windows even if you do not change install media.

So, once again for those that cant read, you cannot create a local account under Windows 10 Home anymore upon installation if you get the OOBE I've experienced about the last twenty times I installed Windows 10 Home.



That's 1809 and I want to update while installing so these machines will be connected to the internet while installing as there's always updates available, eventually the OOBE in the install media will be changed to reflect this limitation anyway.

You'll always twist criticism of Windows like Microsoft are your mates, are you aware of that? I may seem negative in relation to Windows, but there's a difference between negative and realistic.
Don't have the device connected to the internet when you create the account and it will not prompt your for any online credentials and let you make a local one, just finished reimaging 15 old desktops with home edition with the latest version created this morning using the windows media creation tool as I am decommissioning them and donating them to the local library and computer access center.

It will force you to choose 3 security questions though..... most annoying so I just did up some BS answers and sent those over to their tech teams for references.
 
Don't have the device connected to the internet when you create the account and it will not prompt your for any online credentials and let you make a local one, just finished reimaging 15 old desktops with home edition with the latest version created this morning using the windows media creation tool as I am decommissioning them and donating them to the local library and computer access center.

It will force you to choose 3 security questions though..... most annoying so I just did up some BS answers and sent those over to their tech teams for references.

As stated, this will eventually be added to the OOBE that's part of the 'offline' installer by default. I wouldn't be surprised if it was already in the latest 19xx release. If not I can assure you it will eventually be present whether online or offline.
 
Screen 1:

View attachment 174411

Screen 2 (After clicking 'Create Account'):

View attachment 174412

And no, you can't just click next and skip this section. I've installed Windows 10 Home numerous times since I first noticed this change and every time there has been absolutely no way to make a local account.

This right here. One of the biggest annoyances. That and how hard they push you to use a PIN instead of a password. Yeah, I’ll use a 4 digit numeric code that can be cracked faster than I can even comprehend due to the limits of the human brain rather than a mediocre password that will take a couple months if it’s worth it to even try.
 
This right here. One of the biggest annoyances. That and how hard they push you to use a PIN instead of a password. Yeah, I’ll use a 4 digit numeric code that can be cracked faster than I can even comprehend due to the limits of the human brain rather than a mediocre password that will take a couple months if it’s worth it to even try.
Pin only works on the physical machine is hashed salted and tied to a hardware snapshot, simple password can be brute forced remotely in seconds.
 
This right here. One of the biggest annoyances. That and how hard they push you to use a PIN instead of a password. Yeah, I’ll use a 4 digit numeric code that can be cracked faster than I can even comprehend due to the limits of the human brain rather than a mediocre password that will take a couple months if it’s worth it to even try.

You cannot use a pin without a password. Also, you can use a pin that is longer than 4 digits, if you want.
 
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