Metro 2033 Exodus and Ray Tracing...

IdiotInCharge said:
While the 'math' is the same, political polls are inherently far more political. We'd see more parallels if say the Steam survey (and others) were being influenced by the vendors of said products to some end. It seems none of the major vendors really have a reason to do this, unlike in politics where all coverage increases or decreases public awareness, so bad news is still free coverage. Also, I recommend we drop the political parallel discussion as this isn't the Soapbox ;).
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Biggest difference.

Valve samples actual facts about the HW.

Phone polling collects peoples opinions of the moment, and they might not even be true opinions.
 
Gideon said:
https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-announces-financial-results-for-first-quarter-fiscal-2020

Almost 4% gain in margin quarter to quarter is quite a bit, not sure why you want to suddenly include the year ago for this. I did muff the the expenses being down tho, teach me to try and multitask as they are slightly up. As for revenue I went by Net Income not Operating Income since that includes all income. Will just have to disagree on your interpretation as a strong product sells well even in traditionally weak quarters. But I dont want to further derail this thread and your free to disagree with me along with anyone else, but that is the way I see it. Also all the product I see on the shelves is a bit of a indicator as well. As for Steam survey, I find they are as accurate as the polls in the last Presidential race we had here in the USA.
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First off Revenue is Revenue, not Net Income, and not Operating income.

Also the only 31% down number you used, is the Revenue, and that was the Year over Year number.

So if you are going to quote Year over Year numbers for one, it makes sense to compare for all.

Also when you try to claim Q1 2020 Margins are "up" (Up being evil right?) based on only the lowest margin quarter in the last 6 years as your benchmark, it looks a bit misleading.

Q4 2019 was the lowest margin quarter in ~6 years, so it was the anomaly being unusually down. Very misleading to use that as basis to claim some kind of unusual jump in margins.

A more fair option would be to compare to some kind of average, Q1 2020, likely doesn't even get as high as the average margin in the last two years.

So again this claims of poor sales and fatter margins are not supported by the financial results.

Revenues were very strong, margins are barely up to NVidias average of the last couple of years.
 
thing is that shaders have a huge headstart over RT. So the difference today is not as striking as it would have been just a few years ago.

Also, RT only makes a huge difference with lots of reflections and shiny surfaces and
 
Just tried Quake 2 RTX tonight for the first time.

Seems like a bad joke.

1000FPS capped at 3440x1440 RTX off
33FPS at 3440x1440 RTX on

33 FPS on a 22 year old game (released 1997) with a graphics card that costs $800 and a still reasonably high end gaming PC?

But hey, at least you can easily tell it's on - vs. Metro 2033 Exodus's minuscule differences.

https://hardforum.com/threads/quake-ii-rtx.1982094/page-2#post-1044248718
 
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Archaea said:
1000FPS capped at 3440x1440 RTX off
33FPS at 3440x1440 RTX on
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It's actually a really good joke- that raster-heavy hardware can even do real-time ray tracing at a modern resolution.

And while the assets are from a 22-year old game, the rendering engine is new.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
It's actually a really good joke- that raster-heavy hardware can even do real-time ray tracing at a modern resolution.

And while the assets are from a 22-year old game, the rendering engine is new.
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Does show how far away we are actually from real time ray tracing for modern games. I am sure developers will find ways to leverage hardware for ray tracing due to the fact it can make things more simpler for them. So what will have more impact? Better hardware for ray tracing, inventive developers finding ways to make it happen? Probably both will come together which will propel the progressions of video cards for the next 5-10 years and game development. Will be interesting to see what Nvidia does next generation, hopefully it will be more than just a die shrink and more cores - something that can give 3x+ in performance for ray tracing would be an eye opener. What AMD is cooking may even be more interesting.
 
I wonder if the OP are aware how the lighting in Metro Exodus is done...I doubt it.
It's really simple...there is ONE raytraced light in Metro Exodus:
The sun.

Now it should be really simple to figure out where you see the difference...and were you should not.
Again...ignorance is used as an argument.

It's called Raytrayced Global Illumination
noko said:
What AMD is cooking may even be more interesting.
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Now that is grasping for straws...How would their solution differ for NVIDIA's pascal solution(shader based RT)?
The patent is public...so please...educate me with something else that fuzzy-warm-wishes?
 
noko said:
. I am sure developers will find ways to leverage hardware for ray tracing due to the fact it can make things more simpler for them. So what will have more impact? Better hardware for ray tracing, inventive developers finding ways to make it happen? Probably both will come together which will propel the progressions of video cards for the next 5-10 years and game development.
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They've already mapped out how these will be combined. In general, ray tracing is being used to inform the rasterization paths for more proper real-time lighting. With current hardware we'll likely see further performance jumps just due to having a better understanding of when to use ray tracing for effect. You can use it for everything a la Quake II RTX, but given how little die space has been reserved relative to the raster cores, that's a good proof of concept but obviously not yet viable for what consumers expect from AAA games.

The takeaway is that future games, especially those that are being developed ground-up for the upcoming consoles, will make better use of current RT hardware than we're seeing in current games. By better, I mean having the visual effects present, perhaps used more creatively, as well as running faster due to optimizations and careful application of limited resources.

noko said:
Will be interesting to see what Nvidia does next generation, hopefully it will be more than just a die shrink and more cores - something that can give 3x+ in performance for ray tracing would be an eye opener.
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Very likely, they have a die shrink, an evolution of the Tensor cores, and also a significant increase in RT performance due to increased hardware resources as well as refinement of the cores themselves, and they could also be distributing RT resources out to the shader cores as opposed to keeping them in a separate block of the die.

noko said:
What AMD is cooking may even be more interesting.
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Given how far behind they are, I'm not really expecting them to do much more than get it working. Their current focus is on their console SoC which will have limited resources relative to what is available on desktops, more akin to say a mid-range gaming laptop. Their contributions if any would be to get RT running efficiently on limited hardware, and in turn, software that targets that resource mix might run RT better on an RTX2060 than current games do.
 
Factum said:
This video contain interesting facts aobut RTX vs No RTX in Metro 2033:
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Great video
Differences shown are again not massive but add a lot of realism to the lighting making objects not look separate from pre-baked lighting.

From what I gather they pretty much do dynamic light pre-baking. It would be kinda like if you took Quake 1/2/3 engine and instead of pre-baking lightmaps into maps calculated them per-frame basis (also using information from previous frames to reduce noise and improve performance by not requiring that many rays) which also included all objects. That would give original look but with ability to move lights, dynamic shadows from map geometry and objects but would not give any effects like reflections so not quite the same level of awesomeness as full path-tracing used in path traced quake engines like one from Quake 2 RTX. This is pretty clever usage of RT and shows that developers have a lot of control of how they can use this technology.

Perhaps down the road as hardware progresses but is still not powerful enough to drive full path tracing developers will mix real time lightmaps calculation and reflection but still use rasterization and get pretty good approximation of full path-tracing with less performance impact
 
Just stumbled on this one. I don't know if the embeds will work, it's one of those slideover images. This one looks blatantly better with RTX to me, and is exactly the kind of thing I would want it for. Making a more immersive/atmospheric experience in single player games.
https://www.pcgamer.com/metro-exodus-settings-performance-ray-tracing-dlss/
RTX off:
file#.jpg


Again, it's fine until you compare the alternative, which looks MUCH better IMO:
file#.jpg


The change in lighting gives everything so much more depth and realism.
 
Try turning the contrast down in the first image... bad baked lighting is no match for frame robbing ray traced scenes.
 
Pieter3dnow said:
I would like to remind you about Battlefield V where they have had patches to reduce "ray tracing" I am wondering how people feel that they experience that as fake tracing as well (great binary thinkers).

You can wait for titles that would differentiate the difference better but is that without developers being paid to make the experience worse as in the case with tessellation. So where in this first generation is something you can justify being excited about another feature that is abusive towards what it is really doing, can you call it ray tracing if the effect from ray tracing is minimal but the underlying effect to exaggerate this would hurt image quality on the other side.



Is that the future where you still have a spare kidney that you would like to sell to be able to afford your future Nvidia purchase, you know for those ray(s) that needs to be traced ?
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Sorry . should have said it differently - i am kinda exited for raytracing in 3.5 years time - when its in the consoles, and fast enough to turn on without swallowing all the performance, untill then - not so much.

And nVidia better make their next product super appetizing, otherwise i will be enjoying this future on Navi X, Intel RayCorez or PowerVR PowerRay accelerator (or whatever they call them) - am super sick of nV propaganda and features that suck, DLSS comes to mind.
 
Lol about how you're arguing over one cherry picked frame with essentially a single light source.
 
Snowdog said:
Just stumbled on this one. I don't know if the embeds will work, it's one of those slideover images. This one looks blatantly better with RTX to me, and is exactly the kind of thing I would want it for. Making a more immersive/atmospheric experience in single player games.
https://www.pcgamer.com/metro-exodus-settings-performance-ray-tracing-dlss/
RTX off:
View attachment 172550

Again, it's fine until you compare the alternative, which looks MUCH better IMO:
View attachment 172551

The change in lighting gives everything so much more depth and realism.
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I didn't really take any comparative snapshots during my last play through but I absolutely noticed the most differences while walking thru the train. I spent quite a bit of time during the segment before 'spring' when the whole gang was in the main car singing after Anna had her episode. The lighting on all the characters was pretty amazing.
 
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