Nvidia SUPER Refresh: Faster 2060, 2070, 2080, Faster GDDR6 and $100 Off

See? This is why completion is great. The rumor that Navi is going to be great has the consumer winning with better performance and lower prices.
Real competition involves more than duopoly. Unfortunately, in tech, duopoly is generally erroneously seen as quality competition. Search. Phones. Operating systems. GPUs. CPUs. Consoles. Et cetera.

Cartels are the worst. Monopolies are second. Duopolies are third. None qualify as high-quality competition.

This is perhaps a symptom of Economics not being a required part of the K-12 curriculum.
 
Classically trained economist here: you’re right. But — some competition is better than one vendor clearly running away in all aspects of performance while the other player lags behind time after time. And this is the case if you look at market share numbers. In every metric I’ve seen Nvidia has something like 85% of the pie IIRC and the same goes for Intel’s dominance of x86 — it’s a lot.

All I was getting at was that it’s good to see the market go from seemingly monopoly domination by NVIDIA to at least an duopoly that will at least move for them to compete on performance even though it won’t move the needle on prices like a market with more participants.
 
Real competition involves more than duopoly. Unfortunately, in tech, duopoly is generally erroneously seen as quality competition. Search. Phones. Operating systems. GPUs. CPUs. Consoles. Et cetera.

Cartels are the worst. Monopolies are second. Duopolies are third. None qualify as high-quality competition.

This is perhaps a symptom of Economics not being a required part of the K-12 curriculum.

The problem with tech is the massive outlay of capital to finance R&D.... and the patent systen perhaps somewhat as well. Trying to develop a compatible yet unique tech solution is extremely expensive both at the R&D stage and then at the sales point with the litigious tech market eating smaller fish.

On the software side everyone can thank the FOSS movement for spurring at least some competition on the software end. Its easier fund high end custom software solutions today then it ever has been.

When it comes to something like GPUs and CPUs the investment required to develop the hardware is massive, 100s of people for years to get off the ground. A dance of patent licencing and clean room work... and even if a company navigates that, they then have to deal with a market that views them as the little third place player. As the third wheel good luck commanding anything but bottom of the barrel pricing.

Just look at what happened to both Cyrix and Transmeta. BOTH had superior tech, both where lean and mean... both where on the right side of legal issues. Yet they are both gone. What is left.... Cryix patents now belong to AMD with Intel having forever licences. (AMD up to just a few years ago was still manufacturing Cryrix developed chips for industrial use). Intels current Float Point design is in fact a Cyrix design. Transmeta likewise long gone... but we can thank them for dynamic cloaks and extreme low power chips, likewise all their tech now belongs to Intel.

Bottom line is the market didn't support the third place guys... even when they had the clearly superior tech. (By market I mean both consumers and software developers) Cyrix and Transmeta when consumers saw their products they where in bottom of the barrel low spec products with next to no margin. Its not shocking that investors in both companies took the exits when the opportunity presented itself, then likely put their money in coffee companies or something with big margins and low risk. Tech is all high risk for next to no margin.

With GPUs... at least Intel is entering the game again for real. So perhaps we will have a real 3 way race. Lets just hope AMD doesn't stumble with the generation after Navi and just call it quits. That would suck. The days of companies like ArtX BitBoys 3Dlabs 3DFX GigaPixle and all the other little upstarts with a novel idea are long gone. Investors aren't going to sink any real money into those types of super long shots again I don't think.
 
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Would be annoyed if true because it would hurt the resale value of my RX 2070 when I upgrade next year. :p
 
The problem with tech is the massive outlay of capital to finance R&D.... and the patent systen perhaps somewhat as well. Trying to develop a compatible yet unique tech solution is extremely expensive both at the R&D stage and then at the sales point with the litigious tech market eating smaller fish.

On the software side everyone can thank the FOSS movement for spurring at least some competition on the software end. Its easier fund high end custom software solutions today then it ever has been.

When it comes to something like GPUs and CPUs the investment required to develop the hardware is massive, 100s of people for years to get off the ground. A dance of patent licencing and clean room work... and even if a company navigates that, they then have to deal with a market that views them as the little third place player. As the third wheel good luck commanding anything but bottom of the barrel pricing.

Just look at what happened to both Cyrix and Transmeta. BOTH had superior tech, both where lean and mean... both where on the right side of legal issues. Yet they are both gone. What is left.... Cryix patents now belong to AMD with Intel having forever licences. (AMD up to just a few years ago was still manufacturing Cryrix developed chips for industrial use). Intels current Float Point design is in fact a Cyrix design. Transmeta likewise long gone... but we can thank them for dynamic cloaks and extreme low power chips, likewise all their tech now belongs to Intel.

Bottom line is the market didn't support the third place guys... even when they had the clearly superior tech. (By market I mean both consumers and software developers) Cyrix and Transmeta when consumers saw their products they where in bottom of the barrel low spec products with next to no margin. Its not shocking that investors in both companies took the exits when the opportunity presented itself, then likely put their money in coffee companies or something with big margins and low risk. Tech is all high risk for next to no margin.

With GPUs... at least Intel is entering the game again for real. So perhaps we will have a real 3 way race. Lets just hope AMD doesn't stumble with the generation after Navi and just call it quits. That would suck. The days of companies like ArtX BitBoys 3Dlabs 3DFX GigaPixle and all the other little upstarts with a novel idea are long gone. Investors aren't going to sink any real money into those types of super long shots again I don't think.

How much does a dynamic cloak cost? I've always wanted one.
 
I bought a used EVGA GTX 1060 6 GB SCC on ebay a few weeks ago for $125 shipped. I was using a GTX 1070 Ti prior (a few months back) I have the same hardware except of coarse for the vid card and believe it or not it runs all my games (from Tomb Taider series up to Andromeda, Crysis 3, etc) with LESS pausing than when I used the 1070 Ti @ 1080p ... go figure so no, I don't need a 2060 right now
 
If putting the blame on Crypto works best for you, then go right ahead. Now that Crypto is not a
factor, and does not reflect the current business model of nvidia, then they don't have to lower
their price at all, since they are doing so well. So, tell me why they are putting out faster cards at a
cheaper price now, since they are not hurting, and it does not reflect their business practice?
 
If putting the blame on Crypto works best for you, then go right ahead. Now that Crypto is not a
factor, and does not reflect the current business model of nvidia, then they don't have to lower
their price at all, since they are doing so well. So, tell me why they are putting out faster cards at a
cheaper price now, since they are not hurting, and it does not reflect their business practice?

You haven't seen the latest rumors?
 
AMD can compete with Nvidia in markets that matter. Custom chip fab. The fact that AMD is in all of the consoles and Nvidia is left to make their own or get zero % of that market is telling.

Also since Nvidia so heavily invested into the RX line of Graphics cards for both next gen business and consumer use. It means that if RTX cards don't sell hard and fast at a price point that is profitable we may see the king waver. Reduce sales staff, double down on development, and fabrication. Also branch out into other lines.

AI cards are a big deal. But for that to really take hold in large numbers people need to want AI in their cars and Manufacturers have to be able to do it at a price point consumers will swallow.

60k AI car's will be the entry level at first when they become real. As economies of scale take hold they will get cheaper.

Nvidia wants to own a market other than PC. They want to own Compute market in areas that they don't have reasonable competition, they have that for another year... MAYBE 2. But the R&D to cost of the cards is so expensive they may not make their full R&D budget back. And super smart AI card's are hard to market. So they add that R&D Tech into Graphics cards and hope consumers will keep paying the high price to make their R&D on AI cores make sense.

Will be interesting to see how they do for this second quarter. Nvidia doesn't have the market breadth that AMD does. If this quarter doesn't look good we are going to see some Layoff's at Nvidia.

I can't claim to know how they are actually doing. But considering the markets they have thrown themselves into, what is on their current generation of cards, and now this play to get 'loyal' customers to buy into it... AGAIN. I think they are in a hard spot and not likely to do great.

AMD on the other hand has a big product refresh, and their CPU's are exciting the market in a way that they haven't done since the Athalon x 64.. Which I ran in a pure 64 bit Windows Vista for a long while.
 
Looks like a nice refresh. The 2080 will probably get the biggest performance boost from the faster GDDR6, followed by the 2060. I think the 2070 will benefit most from the price cut.

I would be very surprised if the 2060 drops to $250. $300 seems likely.
 
The problem with tech is the massive outlay of capital to finance R&D.... and the patent systen perhaps somewhat as well. Trying to develop a compatible yet unique tech solution is extremely expensive both at the R&D stage and then at the sales point with the litigious tech market eating smaller fish.

On the software side everyone can thank the FOSS movement for spurring at least some competition on the software end. Its easier fund high end custom software solutions today then it ever has been.

When it comes to something like GPUs and CPUs the investment required to develop the hardware is massive, 100s of people for years to get off the ground. A dance of patent licencing and clean room work... and even if a company navigates that, they then have to deal with a market that views them as the little third place player. As the third wheel good luck commanding anything but bottom of the barrel pricing.

Just look at what happened to both Cyrix and Transmeta. BOTH had superior tech, both where lean and mean... both where on the right side of legal issues. Yet they are both gone. What is left.... Cryix patents now belong to AMD with Intel having forever licences. (AMD up to just a few years ago was still manufacturing Cryrix developed chips for industrial use). Intels current Float Point design is in fact a Cyrix design. Transmeta likewise long gone... but we can thank them for dynamic cloaks and extreme low power chips, likewise all their tech now belongs to Intel.

Bottom line is the market didn't support the third place guys... even when they had the clearly superior tech. (By market I mean both consumers and software developers) Cyrix and Transmeta when consumers saw their products they where in bottom of the barrel low spec products with next to no margin. Its not shocking that investors in both companies took the exits when the opportunity presented itself, then likely put their money in coffee companies or something with big margins and low risk. Tech is all high risk for next to no margin.

With GPUs... at least Intel is entering the game again for real. So perhaps we will have a real 3 way race. Lets just hope AMD doesn't stumble with the generation after Navi and just call it quits. That would suck. The days of companies like ArtX BitBoys 3Dlabs 3DFX GigaPixle and all the other little upstarts with a novel idea are long gone. Investors aren't going to sink any real money into those types of super long shots again I don't think.

exactly

There used to be Voodo, Rendition, S3, SIS, CIrrus Logic, etc and now we are down 3 with Intel, Nvidia, and AMD...
 
AMD can compete with Nvidia in markets that matter. Custom chip fab. The fact that AMD is in all of the consoles and Nvidia is left to make their own or get zero % of that market is telling.

Yeah, NVidia can't build SoCs with x86 CPUs. How valuable that market is, remains questionable. NVidia was in Xbox before and I remember them claiming it was low margin and not worth pursuing.

Also since Nvidia so heavily invested into the RX line of Graphics cards for both next gen business and consumer use. It means that if RTX cards don't sell hard and fast at a price point that is profitable we may see the king waver. Reduce sales staff, double down on development, and fabrication. Also branch out into other lines.

I think this is a vast over-reaction. As I posted earlier in response to another NVidia doomed post. The recent "bad" Q1, was still their second best everyQ1, beaten only by the Q1 that was inflated by crypto-mining bubble.

Also if you check Steam, the supposedly terrible selling RTX cards are climbing the charts. The RTX 2070 already has bigger Steam install base than every AMD card but 1 (The RX 580).


Nvidia doesn't have the market breadth that AMD does. If this quarter doesn't look good we are going to see some Layoff's at Nvidia.

I can't claim to know how they are actually doing. But considering the markets they have thrown themselves into, what is on their current generation of cards, and now this play to get 'loyal' customers to buy into it... AGAIN. I think they are in a hard spot and not likely to do great.

Yeah, you really don't know how they are doing. How about you check the financials for both companies and re-evaluate. Check Steam GPU reports to see how those "poor selling" RTX cards are doing.
 
Steam gives a general idea, and I wouldn’t dispute the 2070 doing well, but don’t take steam surveys as gospel.
 
Price wise both are "guilty" of trying to make as much money as they think they can from their parts. AMDs releases have never been dtrasticly cheaper at the high end. Both companies pretty mcuh price to the other on the upper spectrum. At the mid range and down things get a bit more interesting and for quite awhile AMD has tended to have the better value proposition. Although with the mining craze they had a hard time controlling retail pricing, not that anyone was trying to really.

5870 was the best card and $379. GTX 480 for $499 did have more power, but not a big upgrade and at the cost of heat. The basic 267 mm cooler with one fan was overwhelmed. 305 mm dual fan at least made it more reasonable, but that cost more. 137W additional power consumption. Though the 5870 was also hot. https://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/10/26/msi_n480gtx_lightning_video_card_review/9
 
See? This is why completion is great. The rumor that Navi is going to be great has the consumer winning with better performance and lower prices.

Nothing is better than completion. Hate getting only half complete products:p


OK I should probably be the last to point out typo's...
 
The problem with tech is the massive outlay of capital to finance R&D.... and the patent systen perhaps somewhat as well. Trying to develop a compatible yet unique tech solution is extremely expensive both at the R&D stage and then at the sales point with the litigious tech market eating smaller fish.

On the software side everyone can thank the FOSS movement for spurring at least some competition on the software end. Its easier fund high end custom software solutions today then it ever has been.

When it comes to something like GPUs and CPUs the investment required to develop the hardware is massive, 100s of people for years to get off the ground. A dance of patent licencing and clean room work... and even if a company navigates that, they then have to deal with a market that views them as the little third place player. As the third wheel good luck commanding anything but bottom of the barrel pricing.

Just look at what happened to both Cyrix and Transmeta. BOTH had superior tech, both where lean and mean... both where on the right side of legal issues. Yet they are both gone. What is left.... Cryix patents now belong to AMD with Intel having forever licences. (AMD up to just a few years ago was still manufacturing Cryrix developed chips for industrial use). Intels current Float Point design is in fact a Cyrix design. Transmeta likewise long gone... but we can thank them for dynamic cloaks and extreme low power chips, likewise all their tech now belongs to Intel.

Bottom line is the market didn't support the third place guys... even when they had the clearly superior tech. (By market I mean both consumers and software developers) Cyrix and Transmeta when consumers saw their products they where in bottom of the barrel low spec products with next to no margin. Its not shocking that investors in both companies took the exits when the opportunity presented itself, then likely put their money in coffee companies or something with big margins and low risk. Tech is all high risk for next to no margin.

With GPUs... at least Intel is entering the game again for real. So perhaps we will have a real 3 way race. Lets just hope AMD doesn't stumble with the generation after Navi and just call it quits. That would suck. The days of companies like ArtX BitBoys 3Dlabs 3DFX GigaPixle and all the other little upstarts with a novel idea are long gone. Investors aren't going to sink any real money into those types of super long shots again I don't think.

OMG... Transmeta... I bought their stock back in the day. (A little of it.) I'm going to go cry in a corner now. XD
 
AMD can compete with Nvidia in markets that matter. Custom chip fab. The fact that AMD is in all of the consoles and Nvidia is left to make their own or get zero % of that market is telling.

AMD is not in all of the consoles; the Switch uses a custom NV Tegra SOC. I don't know how it affects NV's bottom line but the statement "AMD is in ALL of the consoles", is false.
 
OMG... Transmeta... I bought their stock back in the day. (A little of it.) I'm going to go cry in a corner now. XD

I also lost a little scratch on that one.

If your feeling lucky you can always keep tabs on Ditzels next big thing.... he has secured 100s of millions in funding again to build RiscV powered AI chips. All joking aside this play may have better odds then the hardware+software transmeta chips did. lol
https://www.esperanto.ai/

He struck out again with Thruchip but most people don't know that one as well. In that case they just got beat out by better more secure methods of 3D chip stacking. Although I think their TCI tech did get used on some flash memory.

Anyway... watch out for that esperanto. ;)
 
AMD is not in all of the consoles; the Switch uses a custom NV Tegra SOC. I don't know how it affects NV's bottom line but the statement "AMD is in ALL of the consoles", is false.

I'm sorry you are absolutely correct. Nvidia put it's shield tech in Nintendo's hand held/console system. You are 100% correct.

I have a buddy who has that system too it's pretty sweet for what it lets you do.

Mobile Processing and gaming will get better and better and Nviida want's a solid part of that pie I don't blame them.
 
There is no "should have been" or "the price should be" when it comes to pricing. That's childthink.

They are legally obligated to their shareholders to keep the prices as high as the market will support.

sure we all know nv is notoriously greedy... oh, i'm sorry obligated to whatever whatever. maybe i should have said "should have been those prices if it were to convince me to buy one" because the price/performance just was not there vs yesteryear offerings.
 
S as in "space". Perhaps "sued" by Taito/Midway. Licenced this time or go home.

$45 "sound" only version seems the better deal, till you consider import tariffs.
NothingToSeeHere.png

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...with-fan-420W-2-for-2/314284_32917960428.html
Price of the donut is sort of a deal breaker too...
 
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Honestly my MSI 980TI Seahawk does everything I ask it to at 1440. I like my monitor and until I go up in res with a new monitor it seems icky to say but I am good with what I have for now. I hope newer better faster comes out in the next gen or so. Until this card I haven't skipped a Video card update since the 3Dfx days.

And frankly - my i7-6700K @ 4.2 still pairs fine with it
 
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Steam gives a general idea, and I wouldn’t dispute the 2070 doing well, but don’t take steam surveys as gospel.

Well there is no real supply of 1070Ti/1080/1080Ti anymore for new prebuilt systems. Kind of hard to argue that RTX isn't selling well when every single brand name high end gaming machine is going to contain one at the moment.

EDIT: I suppose there is some Radeon VII builds for sale right now, but insignificant compared to the number of HP and Dell machines with RTX cards for sale.
 
Call me back when it's a 2080Ti refresh on 7nm.. so 3080Ti or whatever it will be called.
 
I, too, like to spend my money on hotter and slower hardware.

Well, better than hardware with nerfed "features". Of course, the hardware I buy is not slower in it's price range and is not all that much hotter but hey.......

Oh well, thankfully, we have a choice as opposed to one company dictating terms.......
 
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Well, better than hardware with nerfed "features". Of course, the hardware I buy is not slower in it's price range and is not all that much hotter but hey.......

Oh well, thankfully, we have a choice as opposed to one company dictating terms.......

Cmon, youre not interested in choices.
 
ah bullshit. they are just raising prices because stupid jackass consumers pay it. just like no phone cost $1000 till apple iphone XXX or whatever the he!! it was, and all the jackass starbucks drinkin volkswagen drivin @ss fucks lined up in droves and camped out for days just to pay double for the same product as last year, just because it was a "new model" and now $1000 is the norm. (for a stupid phone you're just gonna drop after a couple months anyway) f*ck that garbage and f*ck "their share holders" 2 billion not enough for a 3 month profit. those greedy fucks can suck my ass and shove that price tag where the black lights shine. nasty s.o.b.'s

Life is not fair.
 
ah bullshit. they are just raising prices because stupid jackass consumers pay it. just like no phone cost $1000 till apple iphone XXX or whatever the he!! it was, and all the jackass starbucks drinkin volkswagen drivin @ss fucks lined up in droves and camped out for days just to pay double for the same product as last year, just because it was a "new model" and now $1000 is the norm. (for a stupid phone you're just gonna drop after a couple months anyway) f*ck that garbage and f*ck "their share holders" 2 billion not enough for a 3 month profit. those greedy fucks can suck my ass and shove that price tag where the black lights shine. nasty s.o.b.'s

You've got some serious anger issues over what other people do with their own money.
 
RTX is less used then VR and VR was way over hyped as the next big thing. What they will find out will be the same thing, no one is itching to drop a grand to have a sub par experience.
 
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