Cloud Imperium Games Spent $4M a Month in 2017 Developing Star Citizen

Derangel said:
The big question is, how long can that $46m sustain them?
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Christ Robbers indicated the $46M is for MARKETING Squadron 42:

"Because of this, we started to investigate ways to raise money to fund the upcoming marketing and release needs of Squadron 42."

"Taking in like-minded partners helps us solve the need of funding the marketing and release of Squadron 42"


Who in the hell acquires $46M in funding for future marketing of a game that is at least two to three years away from release? No one does. Once again, CIG is lying. They sure as hell are going to use those funds (and probably have been using those funds) towards development.
 
LightsOut41 said:
Christ Robbers indicated the $46M is for MARKETING Squadron 42:

"Because of this, we started to investigate ways to raise money to fund the upcoming marketing and release needs of Squadron 42."

"Taking in like-minded partners helps us solve the need of funding the marketing and release of Squadron 42"


Who in the hell acquires $46M in funding for future marketing of a game that is at least two to three years away from release? No one does. Once again, CIG is lying. They sure as hell are going to use those funds (and probably have been using those funds) towards development.
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I can only presume that they're hoping to release SQ42 asap in order to provide a revenue stream that will keep the lights on while they try to finish SC. That seems fair enough, actually, although $46m for marketing sounds like complete and utter bullshit.
 
I get burnt on some games I play during development. My lack of patience causes me to be bored of a game by the time it releases lol.
 
Bawjaws said:
I can only presume that they're hoping to release SQ42 asap in order to provide a revenue stream that will keep the lights on while they try to finish SC. That seems fair enough, actually, although $46m for marketing sounds like complete and utter bullshit.
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Even Roberts is admitting it will be 18 months until Squadron 42 releases. And considering they've missed their own deadlines countless times now even that should be taken with a mountain of salt, so that isn't exactly much of a short or medium term solution. Especially when you would assume that the vast majority of people interested in the game will have already paid, so in order to generate that much more revenue from sales after release it would have to be one of the top selling pc games of all time.

I just don't understand how there are still people who are optimistic about this all working out.
 
Yeah, the big concern for CIG must be that their total future sales have been cannibalised by pre-orders in the form of crowd funding. Then again, backers so far have shown an insatiable appetite for ship JPEGs so fuck knows how much more cash they can extract from the market.
 
EODetroit said:
For all of you that didn't read that Gamasutra clickbait to the end, here's the real story that you missed: https://cloudimperiumgames.com/blog/letter-from-the-chairman/investment-news

Note that all this "news" came out on December 20th. Why Gamasutra is posting it now like its new information, I don't know, desperate for money, most likely. Oh yeah, and they wrote the headline like CIG is in some kind of financial crunch instead of telling the real story, which is that CIG has ~ a year of cushion assuming they make no money at all one year (which as I said, isn't gunna happen).
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Don't try and pretend Roberts was all up-front and transparent about it, the investment was discovered by trawling through their legally mandated UK financials, 6 months after it even occurred. It was only after it had already been discovered that Roberts announced it in his letter, in which he tried to make it sound like he had done a favour for some movie industry mates, when he wouldn't have done it at all if he hadn't been absolutely desperate for cash.
 
chaos4u said:
quietly playing star citizen delivering cargo missions, failing at merc missions, running bunker missions, buying and upgrading gear all while enjoying the scenery and gallivanting around on moons and a planet in various rovers...
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Quietly turn the lights out, on your way out, just before they pull the plug on the server for non payment of the utility bills.....
 
EODetroit said:
They have a huge cushion of cash that ensures the game will get made. That's the real headline, sorry if some of you can't handle the truth. They bring in a very consistent amount of money every year, the only way they're in any sort of trouble at all is if that suddenly stops. And there's absolutely no sign of it stopping.

Also, the documentation released fucking destroys the "hookers and blow" conspiracies, it shows exactly how the money was spent. No developer releases this kind of accounting info voluntarily, but they did.
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tunatime said:
Wait so someone out there thought that this was worth 460 million USD? Some people have way to much money and not enough common sense
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Nenu said:
They may have been genuine right at the start but soon after the game became a lie.
Either that or it was a lie from the start.
Once they saw how easily money flooded in they did what they could to keep it that way and had the ride of their lives.
The writing was on a the wall yeeaaars ago.
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FearTheCow said:
Someone did the math, taking into account burn rate and income, at the time of the $46 million private investment, CIG had about 2 months left before they went broke.

Now I am not the smartest person, but given the state of the game, the statement made by CIG that they had enough money to finish the game was a lie.
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I think these statements all are a bit of a stretch.

First, do they have enough to finish the game? Perhaps. The game actually has a lot finished already. Most of the money now is going into tweaking things and making it a more polished product. But it isn't "finished", and even with the $45m it isn't certain they can finish it while including everything in the ridiculous stretch goals.

As for the $46m, that doesn't necessarily mean they valued the company at 460m. What it means is that valuated their risk to reward for the $46m and believed with what was currently built, the risk was worth the investment. After all if the game does come to market, given how fanatical a lot of its fanbase has been, there is a decent chance at much higher rewards down the line. Not to mention it means they also have stake in further crowdfunding/developments from the company. For some VC companies 46m might be a drop in the bucket.

Is the game a lie? Obviously not as there are currently playable versions of the game that include a lot of the play-ability. So it isn't a lie. Perhaps meeting all the stretch goals is a lie. What is certain is they lied about the time frame fro releasing the game as well as what order things would be made/released.

As far as how much money they have or do not have to finish the game is largely conjecture. We don't really know how close the game is to "finished". Nor do we know what may or may not have been promised to them by other investors, or through more funding efforts. They may also drastically reduce costs by closing development studios/staff. That is a very common occurrence in producing games.
 
motomonkey said:
At this point I look upon my $60 donation as bankrolling years of entertainment in the form of amazing flame wars and troll herds, if I actually get to play a finished game, that’s just a bonus!
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This is partly my view. I invested $125 initially for the game and ship package. I say I "invested" because I was under no illusion to the fact that it was a risk. If I get a game out of it, all the best, money worth spent imho. If not, oh well, it was within my budget anyway, so no real loss. I guess I could have have taken someone out to a nice dinner instead...
 
NoOther said:
Considering I have seen active combat, various missions, planet side stuff, etc. I would say most of the core components are done. What exactly is not even close about it?
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It hasnt even reached beta yet, its still alpha.
 
Nenu said:
It hasnt even reached beta yet, its still alpha.
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And? If that is all you got, that is quite weak. Do you know how many things are currently operational even though they are still considered alpha or beta? Or how many things go from alpha to beta to released in a very short time?
 
Their financial situation isn't exactly known, but the numbers a close enough to not have to be exact, and it all comes from digging through information released by CIG, and those numbers point towards them being down to $14 million last year. They also only had 2 months at the end of 2018 where they brought in more than they spent.

The "game" isn't even half finished using their revised finished product metrics, using their original kickstarter they are less than 25% done, and that's not including everything in game that needs to be fixed or reworked.

Even now Chris Robert's is lying about the investment money, why does he need marketing money for a product that is at least 5-6 years from release at current progrss.
 
NoOther said:
And? If that is all you got, that is quite weak. Do you know how many things are currently operational even though they are still considered alpha or beta? Or how many things go from alpha to beta to released in a very short time?
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How many star systems are currently implemented? How many ships? How many game mechanics? How many players can be on the same server at once? How many quests are there?

The list goes on and on, the game should of been in it's current state 4 years ago.
 
NoOther said:
As for the $46m, that doesn't necessarily mean they valued the company at 460m.
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They paid $46m for just over 10% of the company, ergo 100% was valued at about $450m. Unless you think that they gave CIG more than the shares were worth?
 
FearTheCow said:
How many star systems are currently implemented? How many ships? How many game mechanics? How many players can be on the same server at once? How many quests are there?

The list goes on and on, the game should of been in it's current state 4 years ago.
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Most of what you mentioned is a matter of scale. These aren't the core components to a game. As far as ships, we have seen many finished ships, it seems to be the main thing that they have worked on for years...mostly to sell.
 
NoOther said:
And? If that is all you got, that is quite weak. Do you know how many things are currently operational even though they are still considered alpha or beta? Or how many things go from alpha to beta to released in a very short time?
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And you expect that of this game?
Nothing more need be said.
 
Bawjaws said:
They paid $46m for just over 10% of the company, ergo 100% was valued at about $450m. Unless you think that they gave CIG more than the shares were worth?
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That is not exactly how that works though. That is what you are seeing it as. The investment isn't really by a valuation for what they think a company is currently worth, it is usually according to a risk matrix they assemble based on how much they believe they may make over time from the investment. It seems they believe they will make the 46m and then some back over time.
 
Nenu said:
And you expect that of this game?
Nothing more need be said.
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I mean honestly that isn't terrible for a $45 game. I myself have wasted more on less and still felt it was worth it.
 
Nenu said:
And you expect that of this game?
Nothing more need be said.
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Nothing more need be said because why? It doesn't fit your narrative?

I already said what I expect out of the game, frankly nothing. What I am hoping for though is a fun single player experience akin to Privateer. But at the same time I don't take labels such as alpha, beta, etc. as some absolute gospel for where a game is at. Mostly because I have seen, heard of, and been part of too many programs that had varying levels of development progress and thoughts on what occurs in each stage.

For instance, if they had built a ton of stuff on the side, but not put it into their current build because they are scaling up, would they call that beta? What if the point of alpha is to work on scale and their algorithms for combat, missions, etc? I mean that is essentially what they are doing. Plus we have seen models for tons of other things, many of which aren't in the current iteration of the game. We also know they have done a bunch of video and voice work, but where is all of that? So there is a lot that is done, much of which we haven't even seen yet. What we have seen is working components of the core algorithm and components of the game. So part of what is left is ramping up scale and piecing it all together.

Therefore, saying the game is not even close, is not exactly an accurate statement. In reality, we really don't know, but what we do know is much of the algorithms governing key concepts appears to be done or close to done.
 
NoOther said:
Nothing more need be said because why? It doesn't fit your narrative?

I already said what I expect out of the game, frankly nothing. What I am hoping for though is a fun single player experience akin to Privateer. But at the same time I don't take labels such as alpha, beta, etc. as some absolute gospel for where a game is at. Mostly because I have seen, heard of, and been part of too many programs that had varying levels of development progress and thoughts on what occurs in each stage.

For instance, if they had built a ton of stuff on the side, but not put it into their current build because they are scaling up, would they call that beta? What if the point of alpha is to work on scale and their algorithms for combat, missions, etc? I mean that is essentially what they are doing. Plus we have seen models for tons of other things, many of which aren't in the current iteration of the game. We also know they have done a bunch of video and voice work, but where is all of that? So there is a lot that is done, much of which we haven't even seen yet. What we have seen is working components of the core algorithm and components of the game. So part of what is left is ramping up scale and piecing it all together.

Therefore, saying the game is not even close, is not exactly an accurate statement. In reality, we really don't know, but what we do know is much of the algorithms governing key concepts appears to be done or close to done.
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They already set the expectation by taking this long to not even get out of alpha, hugely exceeding their own forecast.
If you want to think differently be my guest, it wont change my mind.
The writing has been on the wall for years.
 
Nenu said:
This has no bearing on my post.
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You haven't said much that has any bearing. You think the game isn't close to being done, my point was the level of content they have available for the price seems pretty decent. Many alphas I have been a part of dont even start texturing or sound yet.

What is your point exactly? You really just dont have much to discuss other than "no, nope, i dont like it". Was just hoping to spark a bit more thought out of you to see why you think the way you do is all. If that isn't your purpose I apologize and will not reply to you further.
 
Nenu said:
They already set the expectation by taking this long to not even get out of alpha, hugely exceeding their own forecast.
If you want to think differently be my guest, it wont change my mind.
The writing has been on the wall for years.
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You say the writing has been on the wall for years and yet they have released regular updates and the game has noticeably improved as well. So I don't know what your point is here? It is obvious you aren't going to change your mind, but it is also painfully obvious that you have little to back your claims of lies.
 
Darunion said:
I mean honestly that isn't terrible for a $45 game. I myself have wasted more on less and still felt it was worth it.
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Yes had sq42 been out years ago I would have picked it up for $45 and been quite happy had it been good.
 
NoOther said:
Most of what you mentioned is a matter of scale. These aren't the core components to a game. As far as ships, we have seen many finished ships, it seems to be the main thing that they have worked on for years...mostly to sell.
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It's not a matter of scale what good is a space exploration and combat game that doesnt even have one complete system, which is 99 less than originally stated, and is 4-9 less than revised statements.

Read through the kickstarter, compare that with what us actually available and try to say that they are more than 25% complete.

NoOther said:
You say the writing has been on the wall for years and yet they have released regular updates and the game has noticeably improved as well. So I don't know what your point is here? It is obvious you aren't going to change your mind, but it is also painfully obvious that you have little to back your claims of lies.
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And every update has been 6-12 months behind schedule AND missing the majority of what was supposed to be in them. CR released the feature list for 3.0 in October of 2016, 75% of what was listed still isn't implemented and they are up to 3.5.

Hell, there have bee 6-12 months between the content cut updates.

CR said S42 was close to and would be released 4 years ago, where is it?

They have already spent more than what it cost to develop GTA V and have a fraction of the content which also happens to be buggy.

Can you seriously say you don't see a problem with what is going on with CIG?
 
NoOther said:
That is not exactly how that works though. That is what you are seeing it as. The investment isn't really by a valuation for what they think a company is currently worth, it is usually according to a risk matrix they assemble based on how much they believe they may make over time from the investment. It seems they believe they will make the 46m and then some back over time.
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CIG ask investors for money. In return, investors ask for an interest in the company. Investor agrees to give CIG $46m, in return CIG give the investor "slightly more than" 10% of the company. This is a mutually agreeable position. Thus, CIG value themselves at about $450m, which as I said strikes me as a bit on the toppy side.

To avoid confusion, I've not been talking about how much the investor reckons CIG are worth, as that's irrelevant. Rather, I'm disputing that CIG seem to value themselves at such a figure.
 
FearTheCow said:
It's not a matter of scale what good is a space exploration and combat game that doesnt even have one complete system, which is 99 less than originally stated, and is 4-9 less than revised statements.

Read through the kickstarter, compare that with what us actually available and try to say that they are more than 25% complete.
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The problem is you are saying it is not complete just because of what you see in the current alpha. How do you know they haven't much of the other content? There has been much talk about them doing exactly this, just that it isn't currently available in the playable version.

FearTheCow said:
And every update has been 6-12 months behind schedule AND missing the majority of what was supposed to be in them. CR released the feature list for 3.0 in October of 2016, 75% of what was listed still isn't implemented and they are up to 3.5.

Hell, there have bee 6-12 months between the content cut updates.

CR said S42 was close to and would be released 4 years ago, where is it?

They have already spent more than what it cost to develop GTA V and have a fraction of the content which also happens to be buggy.

Can you seriously say you don't see a problem with what is going on with CIG?
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Okay, since you say so much is missing, what exactly are you saying is missing? The stuff you commented on was content, not core capabilities. There are a lot of games that don't include all of the content in the alpha or even the beta.
 
Bawjaws said:
CIG ask investors for money. In return, investors ask for an interest in the company. Investor agrees to give CIG $46m, in return CIG give the investor "slightly more than" 10% of the company. This is a mutually agreeable position. Thus, CIG value themselves at about $450m, which as I said strikes me as a bit on the toppy side.

To avoid confusion, I've not been talking about how much the investor reckons CIG are worth, as that's irrelevant. Rather, I'm disputing that CIG seem to value themselves at such a figure.
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That isn't how things normally work with VCs. VCs do an evaluation of risk/reward, then they tell the company how much they will give them and what they want for it. I am not sure where you get that CIG is the one calling the shots in the deal or valuating themselves and telling the investor what they will get...
 
Should have diverted that money to developing FTL travel and humans would already be traveling the universe.
 
I have to believe CIG is close with at least SQ42 as they do have over 400 employees and most people would jump ship if it is sinking in terms of funding (news travels fast inside companies when it comes to job security). However, the problem I see with CIG and Star Citizen is that even though for the most part they don't intend to scam people it's run like a scam so maybe employees don't know either. I believe that is just do to character flaws of Chris Roberts the main ones being he means well, but justifies shady decisions because he means well. Also, he should be the last person to run a company because history has shown he's terrible at it. Creative director at most, but definitely not CEO.
 
NoOther said:
That isn't how things normally work with VCs. VCs do an evaluation of risk/reward, then they tell the company how much they will give them and what they want for it. I am not sure where you get that CIG is the one calling the shots in the deal or valuating themselves and telling the investor what they will get...
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It doesn't matter who is calling the shots, the fact is that a valuation of $450m was put on the company. The document that CIG released regarding the transaction states that they (CIG) value the company at $450m (well, actually, at $496m, being the original valuation of $450m plus the $46m from the investment).

https://cloudimperiumgames.com/blog/corporate/cloud-imperium-investment-fact-sheet
 
Bawjaws said:
It doesn't matter who is calling the shots, the fact is that a valuation of $450m was put on the company. The document that CIG released regarding the transaction states that they (CIG) value the company at $450m (well, actually, at $496m, being the original valuation of $450m plus the $46m from the investment).

https://cloudimperiumgames.com/blog/corporate/cloud-imperium-investment-fact-sheet
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I get what CIG may think, but my comments revolved around the investors, not CIG. The original post I commented on was basically asking who would value CIG at that much. My point being, VCs generally don't invest based on current valuations. They invest based on a risk/reward matrix. If their eventual payout is greater by a certain percentage within a certain period to the risk of their investment, they will likely invest. Or sometimes they simply give money for name recognition. There are tons of reasons they would do it. But 45m is not that much to some VCs and there are any number of reasons why they would invest that have nothing to do with what CIG thinks their valuation is.
 
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NoOther said:
The problem is you are saying it is not complete just because of what you see in the current alpha. How do you know they haven't much of the other content? There has been much talk about them doing exactly this, just that it isn't currently available in the playable version.



Okay, since you say so much is missing, what exactly are you saying is missing? The stuff you commented on was content, not core capabilities. There are a lot of games that don't include all of the content in the alpha or even the beta.
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https://starcitizentracker.github.io/

The tracker lists everything Chris Roberts and CIG has said will be in the finished game. When it comes to MAJOR systems, i.e. core systems, they have completed and released roughly 27% of what has been promised, do you really think they are holding back 73% of the core game?
 
Draax said:
Should have diverted that money to developing FTL travel and humans would already be traveling the universe.
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if the people in control of the funds that went to space exploration, weren't such huge crooks and scam artist, we would probably already be there.
 
NoOther said:
What exactly is not even close about it?
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A.I.
When they talked about npcs flying with PCs on the ship, i was blown away. Its a LOT of work and hell to balance. Usually it takes 2 years for average game to program a working a.i. For this I suspected at least 4 to 5 years of work.

Thats why I turned skeptical in 2011. They couldnt have done it by 2012, or year after year when they talked about being 90% done or almost ready to ship. You cant even start working on it when you cant lock down the system and ships. There is nothing to be worked on when whole lot of thigs are jpgs and the finished ships gets redone in roles and functions.

Last year they only announced their A.I programmers. I've seen them working mostly on mmo parts of the game. Npcs walking and running the city. They need 3 a.i teams to build the game. mmo, fps, and space combat. The most extensive part is still barely being worked on, and just like 2011, I still say the game needs at least 4-5 years.
 
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