San Francisco Passes Proposition C Also Known as the "Homeless Tax"

[aaronspink]

Derp much?
Boarding an airplane:

That is false. You are not actually required to show ANY ID for boarding a plane. All the ID does is reduce the level of security screening you receive.

Car registration:

I'm pretty sure you don't consider a W-2 or paystub a valid form of ID, but it is perfectly acceptable in many states including WI for registering a car on its own without any photo verification.

Renting X:

They require a valid drivers license, they don't require that you present an id card. All they need is for you to enter a valid LID.

Train Tickets:
Read it yourself

Never been asked for a photo ID to ever ride or buy tickets for a train.

You might be right on mail pickup, and technically only *some* prescriptions require an ID, but you're only fooling yourself if you think "the whole list is bullshit."

The list is pretty much BS. Lots of things people *think* require IDs don't actually require IDs. Hell at one point the TSA was trying to enforce IDs to travel within the US, they got sued and LOST and LOST on appeal.

 

[aaronspink]

if you have to sign for it you need id, like parcels and reg'd mail.

Lol, nope. just need the notice and you'll get your package without any id.

 

[filip]

Dam they actually voted for this, where those voters born retarded or did they work hard to achieve that level of retardation. I hope this shit aint coming to my state.

 

[pendragon1]

Lol, nope. just need the notice and you'll get your package without any id.

I did say registered/restricted signature required and parcels can be that too.

"Adult Signature Required/Restricted Delivery provides delivery to a specific addressee or authorized agent who is 21 years of age or older. Upon delivery, the specific addressee or authorized agent must provide a driver’s license, passport, or other government-issued photo identification that lists age or date of birth and provide a signature for receipt of the mailpiece. The USPS maintains a record of delivery (which includes the recipient’s signature) for 2 years. If the specific addressee is not 21 years of age or older, the mailpiece will be returned to sender."
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2011/05/26/2011-13029/adult-signature-services

 

[aaronspink]

2222

I did say registered/restricted signature required and parcels can be that too.

"Adult Signature Required/Restricted Delivery provides delivery to a specific addressee or authorized agent who is 21 years of age or older. Upon delivery, the specific addressee or authorized agent must provide a driver’s license, passport, or other government-issued photo identification that lists age or date of birth and provide a signature for receipt of the mailpiece. The USPS maintains a record of delivery (which includes the recipient’s signature) for 2 years. If the specific addressee is not 21 years of age or older, the mailpiece will be returned to sender."
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2011/05/26/2011-13029/adult-signature-services

And I'm telling you, I've gotten those and never showed ID for them. They only ask for ID when you don't look over 21.

 

[pendragon1]

2222


And I'm telling you, I've gotten those and never showed ID for them. They only ask for ID when you don't look over 21.

sounds like your p/o wasn't doing their jerb then as its and extra paid for service.

 

[aaronspink]

sounds like your p/o wasn't doing their jerb then as its and extra paid for service.

Maybe, maybe not. But it is what it is.

 

[GoldenTiger]

In voter id states it is very easy to obtain a qualified voter id, unless you are poor, black, latino or elderly,

Racist. You think those people are so incapable, really?!

 

[capt_cope]

That is false. You are not actually required to show ANY ID for boarding a plane. All the ID does is reduce the level of security screening you receive.





I'm pretty sure you don't consider a W-2 or paystub a valid form of ID, but it is perfectly acceptable in many states including WI for registering a car on its own without any photo verification.




They require a valid drivers license, they don't require that you present an id card. All they need is for you to enter a valid LID.



Never been asked for a photo ID to ever ride or buy tickets for a train.



The list is pretty much BS. Lots of things people *think* require IDs don't actually require IDs. Hell at one point the TSA was trying to enforce IDs to travel within the US, they got sued and LOST and LOST on appeal.

I was going to break it all down for you, but then I realized you're just trolling. Sure. You can BOARD a plane without showing ID. But you can't actually get to the terminal wihtout showing an ID, so it's really a moot point now isn't it? The TSA states:

Adult passengers 18 and over must show valid identification at the airport checkpoint in order to travel.

• Driver's licenses or other state photo identity cards issued by Department of Motor Vehicles (or equivalent)
• U.S. passport
• U.S. passport card
• DHS trusted traveler cards (Global Entry, NEXUS, SENTRI, FAST)
• U.S. Department of Defense ID, including IDs issued to dependents
• Permanent resident card
• Border crossing card
• DHS-designated enhanced driver's license
• Federally recognized, tribal-issued photo ID
• HSPD-12 PIV card
• Foreign government-issued passport
• Canadian provincial driver's license or Indian and Northern Affairs Canada card
• Transportation worker identification credential
• U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Employment Authorization Card (I-766)
• U.S. Merchant Mariner Credential

You are required to show one of the IDs listed above before you're even allowed in the area where you might be able to board a plane.

I don't always Derp,,, but when I do... I Herp first.

But be my guest. Show up for a flight without any form of ID. Let us know if you board that plane.

 

[NukeDukem]

How about buying cigarettes and alcohol. Nobody has a problem showing ID for THOSE necessities.

And GoldenTiger is correct. It is racist to assume black people are incapable of obtaining ID. There’s a lot of things the left wing white folks simply assume minorities are incapable of. Who are the racists again?

 

[capt_cope]

How about buying cigarettes and alcohol. Nobody has a problem showing ID for THOSE necessities.

And GoldenTiger is correct. It is racist to assume black people are incapable of obtaining ID. There’s a lot of things the left wing white folks simply assume minorities are incapable of. Who are the racists again?

I'm feeling disenfranchised. Lawmakers need to stop your hate-speech.

 

[capt_cope]

Lol, nope. just need the notice and you'll get your package without any id.

So I guess we should just get rid of any gun control laws then right? I mean the last time I checked the "gun-free zone" didn't really help Parkland. And shit, murder being illegal is more of a guideline. I mean if OJ taught me anything it's that murder is OK as long as you're the right color and have enough fame and money.

/s

Just because your post office workers are lazy and don't do what they're supposed to do doesn't invalidate what they ARE supposed to do. It just means you've got shitty postal workers in your area.

 

[btgorman]

As a former poor person who grew up on an Indian Reservation, I have to say that liberals are pretty damn racist on their rationale about voter ID laws. Drivers licenses are commonly used in every day life. Poor, minority or not.

 

[Kdawg]

use the money to deport them to Fresno

 

[Draax]

Posts blatantly political story “hey guys no politics allowed”

 

[kamxam]

Hmmmmmmm....

 

[ManofGod]

Gee, where did all the jobs that where in San Francisco go? Crap, guess we need to raise the taxes on everyone else to compensate.

 

[bugleyman]

Lots of ranting about "leftists" and "liberals" in this thread. I see HARDOCP's strict policy of "discussing politics is forbidden" remains in full effect.

Try posting half this crap about "conservatives" and watch what happens.

 

[vegeta535]

Racist. You think those people are so incapable, really?!

liberal seem to think those groups of people are incapable.

 

[filip]

Racist. You think those people are so incapable, really?!

Elderly = Racist. lol.

Actually most of the groups he mentioned, according to articles online, will percentage wise have a hard time getting the Voter ID because they already don't have proper identification to obtain it.

 

[Joust]

I was going to break it all down for you, but then I realized you're just trolling. Sure. You can BOARD a plane without showing ID. But you can't actually get to the terminal wihtout showing an ID, so it's really a moot point now isn't it? The TSA states:

You are required to show one of the IDs listed above before you're even allowed in the area where you might be able to board a plane.


But be my guest. Show up for a flight without any form of ID. Let us know if you board that plane.

If you show up without ID, your ass will not be on the plane.

Also, for those who have had the privilege of getting bomb-swabbed, if you've been reloading ammunition that morning...you've got some 'splaining to do.

 

[alxlwson]

If you show up without ID, your ass will not be on the plane.

Also, for those who have had the privilege of getting bomb-swabbed, if you've been reloading ammunition that morning...you've got some 'splaining to do.

I fly all the time, can confirm.
My job takes me to some fun places like nuke stations, DARPA/USDoE research centers(ORNL), explosive manufacturing and other DoD contractors. I get swabbed and interviewed quite often for these reasons. I always fly with my US Passport and SS card. Presenting these items after setting off lights and bells and doing the interview/search makes it go a lot faster.

 

[Vega]

The last time I was in San Fran I witnessed something I will never forget: As I walked down the street I saw a man wearing a very short skirt with his junk hanging down (easily visible, you just had to look in his general direction to see it swinging). Before I even realized what I was seeing he had pulled his skirt up and was pissing on a nearby fire hydrant - in full view of a cop. The cop did nothing.

Later that day I saw a ~80 year old man bicycling his way down the street entirely nude. I was on a bus and the driver remarked that he did that everyday on the exact same route. The driver even knew the guys name...

That is leftist utopia. Mental illness.

 

[bugleyman]

Elderly = Racist. lol.

Actually most of the groups he mentioned, according to articles online, will percentage wise have a hard time getting the Voter ID because they already don't have proper identification to obtain it.

Apparently tilted playing fields are just fine as long as they impact someone else. And If the "someone else" in question happens to tend to vote in a way you don't personally agree with? So much the better.

Since I'm probably already going to eat a ban that's all I'm going to say about that.

 

[alxlwson]

That is leftist utopia. Mental illness.

I wouldn't go that far. If I could handle my business or go for a stroll whilst naked and not be arrested, I would. I hate wearing clothes.

 

[Joust]

But then I'm probably already going to eat a ban, so that's all I'm going to say about that.

The Ban Hammer thirsts. It must feed!

 

[filip]

Apparently tilted playing fields are just fine as long as they impact someone else. And If the "someone else" in question happens to tend to vote in a way you don't personally agree with? So much the better.

Since I'm probably already going to eat a ban that's all I'm going to say about that.

I don't vote or give one fuck about politics (the two party system) because I live in a high majority state/city. State legislatures draw the district lines, the playing field has always been tilted.
The voter ID problem is being worked on in the form of an algorithm that connects address, date of birth, gender, and name to SS numbers and is supposedly accurate 98% of the time.

 

[PCMusicGuy]

I may not have voted for it if I lived there, but they did and I genuinely hope that whatever they signed up for in San Francisco does help out the situation. I went there once about 6 years ago and thought it was nice. I stayed near the Union Square place and traveled around town by a lot of walking, the buses, trolley, and F line while the wife was at a conference. I don't remember it being horribly polluted with homeless everywhere, but I've often heard that in the last few years. I'm sure some of them need help and some of them don't want it, but doing nothing won't make anything better.

Regarding the voting side discussion, I agree all legal citizens should have the right to vote with a government issued ID, but I think it is something that should expire every year and you have to reapply for. This would allow all of the invalid voters to be purged from the system. At the same time, at least one of the DMVs or DPS stations or wherever else people get IDs needs to be opened 7 days a week for people that only have the weekend to get an ID. If all you require is a voters ID, that should be provided for free provided some legitimate proof of citizenship, and let's use common sense here; we don't need to require birth certificates only when many of our older generation may not have them. Additionally, if you are not able to travel to the place to get an ID, you should be able to contact the government to setup an in-home ID verification and production session. I think this should keep both sides of the isle happy. Oh, and I propose that we would pay for all of this, with excess by completely getting rid of the useless TSA. The could just move jobs.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

More rare than being struck by lightning? I beg to differ:

• In May 2016, CBS2 Los Angeles identified 265 dead voters in southern California. Many cast ballots “year after year.”
•  The Heritage Foundation’s non-exhaustive survey confirms, since 2000, at least 742 criminal vote-fraud convictions.
• North Carolina announced in April 2014 that 13,416 dead voters were registered, and 81 of them recently had voted. Among 35,750 North Carolinians also registered in other states, 765 voted in November 2012, both inside and outside the Tarheel State.
•  South Carolina’s attorney general concluded in January 2012 that 953 people “were deceased at the time of their participation in recent elections.”
•  The Public Interest Legal Foundation recently discovered that Virginia removed 5,556 non-citizens from its voter rolls between 2011 and last May. Among these non-Americans, 1,852 had cast a total of 7,474 illegal ballots across multiple elections.
• And here's an article from this year detailing more dead voters in California

For reference the National Weather Service estimates 280 people have been struck by lighting this year.
And here in Wisconsin you can get a free voter ID... Some people still have a problem with it.

I'm not familiar with these. I will have to read up on them. Thanks for the data.

In the past when I have read up on this, the data have suggested in person voter fraud is next to non-existant. The little fraud that does happen tends to be with absentee ballots, which is not relevant to the voter ID discussion, as voter ID laws don't apply to absentee ballots. (What are you going to do, show your ID to the mailbox?) It would be interesting to get more details on your examples above to see if they are of the absentee variety or not.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Simple explanation; Blue people are stupid.

 

[sfsuphysics]

If you show up without ID, your ass will not be on the plane.

Also, for those who have had the privilege of getting bomb-swabbed, if you've been reloading ammunition that morning...you've got some 'splaining to do.

I think there is a confusion with passing the TSA check point and boarding a plane. Yes at some point in the system an ID is needed for you to get on an airplane by virtue that you need to show an ID to pass a TSA checkpoint with a "valid" boarding pass, however once you are past the check point you could basically board any plane you want if you had a ticket in hand whether it is purchased by you or stolen from some poor slob who left it sticking out of his backpack, and ID is not required in that case.

Not just ammunition, my wife got brought to a little room and searched after she did a load of laundry in the morning, apparently something in that particular detergent triggered a false positive with the swabs that were done... that or my wife's skin color was a little to dark for San Diego TSA (which is ironic considering the closeness to Mexico)


That said, when did this go about trashing San Francisco as a libtard paradise where everyone runs around naked to needing an ID to vote? Some desperate attempt to justify why something like this could pass? Obviously it must be all the illegals?

 

[kamxam]

Remember: Zombies *Were* People Too! Campaign for Undead Voting!

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

How did they get a job without an ID?

How do they rent an apartment without an ID?

How did they buy that 6 pack of beer without an ID?


Unless they are homeless, don't work, and never drink, they should already have an ID.

I don't get carded much anymore when I got to bars or the liquor store. I'd argue this is pretty typical once you hit your mid 30's. This also assumes that poor people, who disproportionately are the ones who don't have ID's have the spare money to buy booze, which I'd imagine often isn't the case.

As far as renting apartments goes, there are many ways around that. Sometimes people sublet, and some landlords in poorer areas don't bother with that level of identification. It's not a legal requirement I'm aware of, at least not in my state.

Same with work. As long as you can provide a social security number, many places, especially on the lower income side of things don't bother much with identification. A lot of people in this country also work completely under the table.

The educated, above board employment experience is a lot less universal than you think.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

As a former poor person who grew up on an Indian Reservation, I have to say that liberals are pretty damn racist on their rationale about voter ID laws. Drivers licenses are commonly used in every day life. Poor, minority or not.

A reservation is a very different place than an inner city. Of course you'd need these things on a reservation. You have to get around. In city settings there are many people who live their entire lives without ever needing or owning a car. They walk, bike or take public transit wherever they need to go.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Yeah, actually we DO know this is the case.

Other countries don't have THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE and aren't using local tax raiding to solve a national issue.

Scandiavian countries aren't the US.

I always find people using the size of the U.S. as an excuse why we can't do things to be rather silly.

Yes, the U.S. population is give or take 36 times the size of the population of Sweden.

So, yes, of course fixing our social problems is going to be a bigger job and cost more than fixing the social problems of Sweden.

On the flip side though, we also have ~36x more people paying into the system, so these two pretty much cancel eachother out.

Now consider GDP per capita. Sweden's is about $53,400. The US is about $59,500. So we have almost 12% greater resources per person than they do. In other words, it ought to be MORE feasible here, not less.

 

[sirsad]

I always find people using the size of the U.S. as an excuse why we can't do things to be rather silly.

Yes, the U.S. population is give or take 36 times the size of the population of Sweden.

So, yes, of course fixing our social problems is going to be a bigger job and cost more than fixing the social problems of Sweden.

On the flip side though, we also have ~36x more people paying into the system, so these two pretty much cancel eachother out.

Now consider GDP per capita. Sweden's is about $53,400. The US is about $59,500. So we have almost 12% greater resources per person than they do. In other words, it ought to be MORE feasible here, not less.

It is because people (even Democrats) hate being taxed but they are more than willing to vote to tax someone else. This results in either hiding taxes and/or under funding the progressive program. Obamacare is a perfect example of both of these and the end result is debt, which is up to $21,000,000,000,000 thanks to Obama's poor policies. A debt we will never repay.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

The only reason and I mean the ONLY reason other countries are able to afford their massive social welfare states is due to America providing the protection. If we quit all those other countries would have been invaded by russia and would be living under communism. If all those other countries had to pay for even a fraction of their actual defence bill...they would be either going bankrupt or calling for massive social reform(Or invaded lol). The UK already has tax rates north of 55% if they had to start paying for their own military spending what are they going to do tax everyone 100%?

In general I agree. Many of our NATO allies have not spent their fair share on defense since the middle of the 20th century, and instead have invested in the education, infrastructure and healthcare of their citizens, something we have been unable and unwilling to do, since we have carried such high defense costs. This is unfair and needs to stop. No argument there.

The counter-point to your argument - however - is to consider Sweden. They have allowed their military to shrink after the cold war, but they were never a member of NATO. We never guaranteed their security. For a period of time, roughly from the late 50's through the mid 70's, they had the 4th most powerful air force in the world after the U.S., Soviet Union and U.K, with the number of air modern combat ready aircraft peaking at about 1,000 in the late 50's. Their conscription army also allowed them to - in the event of war - quickly mobilize over a million men. This in a country whose population ranged from ~7 million in 1950 to about 8.2 million in 1975.

During the same period of time from the late 50's through mid 70's they had one of the most developed social safety nets in the world, and greatly prided themselves in it, at the same time as their economy was growing.

My only point here is, that if there is a will there is a way and that taking care of the citizens of a country doesn't need to be a burden. Keeping the population educated, healthy and productive can greatly benefit a nation.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

People can buy more than 80 lottery tickets or more than a few six packs of beer a year but can't be arsed ONE TIME to get an ID and I'm supposed to be sympathetic?

Here we go again with the harmful stereotypes of portraying poor people like some sort of social piraya's just sinfully drinking, smoking and playing the lottery all day...

It's very easy to justify not being compassionate towards people when you paint them as some sort of borderline delinquents.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

When Scandinavian countries are a mirror of us socio and economically you might have a point. But they aren't. Not even close.

Just one of many: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffre...dic-countries-are-not-socialist/#6c34e40674ad

Yeah, I've seen that article. It hangs its hat too much on the word "socialst".

The likes of Bernie and Ocasio-Cortez aren't socialist either. Yes they use that term, but they define it differently than you do. They define it to mean exactly what the Scandinavian countries have done traditionally, using regulated free market capitalism to pay for an advanced social safety net.

Neither Bernie nor Ocasio-Cortez are proposing Soviet style planned economies in the U.S. They probably should have chosen to call themselves "Social Democrats" instead of Socialists. This would have been more accurate.

The bottom line is, the policies they propose are similar to those traditionally used in Scandinavia. The label you apply to it (Socialism, or Social Democracy) is really just semantics.

 

[purple_monster]

its always fun to see what happens to all the leftist world come crashing down once they leave Reddit. Never gets old.