MSI GeForce RTX 2070 GAMING Z Performance Review @ [H]

More or less like the last gen. A GTX 1070 was about like a GTX 980 Ti. This one is about like a GTX 1080 Ti (again, more or less). Why NV has their shorts in a wad over the review is beyond me.
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
So because you didn't sign the NDA, you thought it was okay to undercut all the other reviewers who did? Because why? You want to spite Nvidia or something?
I'd like to mention that Steve (GamersNexus) didn't sign recent AMD NDA's, but still managed to source early Ryzen chips and chose not to publish until the NDA date out of respect for other reviewers.

This is a scummy move.
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LOL, why is it "scummy"? He didn't agree to any arbitrary restrictions, and bought the cards retail. He is under NO obligation to hold his review until everyone else is ready.
 
how is it on noise? I don't mind the 2070 if it stays cool and quiet in gaming.
 
HockeyJon said:
Great review.

I have to say, especially after reading this, I don’t understand why NVIDIA insists on an NDA.
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How do you think the suckers who signed the NDA are going to feel about Nvidia assuring them first crack at hardware and reviews? Don't you think they might be a bit pissed that a retail purchased review came out first, taking away potential page views? Nvidia has to answer to the promises they made to other tech sites.

Jeffredo said:
More or less like the last gen. A GTX 1070 was about like a GTX 980 Ti. This one is about like a GTX 1080 Ti (again, more or less). Why NV has their shorts in a wad over the review is beyond me.
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The review appeared to make it closer to a 1080 than a 1080Ti, given what we know about the performance differences.
 
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NV makes good stuff, but NV is a shitty company and I don't mind if they get mad about this.
 
Smashing review but a few questions. Are you giving the MSI card a gold award because MSI over built the card and it performed well? Or did you factor in cost of the card as well? I have no doubt the card deserved a gold rating for the way its built, but the cost vs performance over a basic 1080 is a little disappointing. Silver would have been a better alignment when you factor in cost.
 
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Damn nice card. Although at $600!? Might as well get a used 1080ti at that point. Granted you won't get DLSS or Ray Tracing, you'll get better 1440p performance and decent 4k performance at roughly the same price. I just wish G-Sync monitors weren't so damned expensive, I would have easily stayed with team Green, but having a FreeSync monitor and loving it, it's tough to want to go back to not having it.
 
Usual_suspect said:
Damn nice card. Although at $600!? Might as well get a used 1080ti at that point. Granted you won't get DLSS or Ray Tracing, you'll get better 1440p performance and decent 4k performance at roughly the same price. I just wish G-Sync monitors weren't so damned expensive, I would have easily stayed with team Green, but having a FreeSync monitor and loving it, it's tough to want to go back to not having it.
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I agree Gsync monitors are spendy. Your best bet is to keep looking for a super deal on one. That was the only way I was able to afford one, Gsync is fucking fantastic....the price? Not so much.
 
Too expensive, and it would support a shitty company, so i'll pass on the product.

But thank you HardOCP for being standup journalists.
 
96redformula said:
Its too expensive still, 2nd hand 1080 is a better value at under $400.
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Hell, I'm seeing multiple 1080's on Facebook marketplace, Craigslist, and even Ebay in the $300-400 range on a consistent basis. Which makes the 2070 even less attractive for the budget minded types.

Good review as usual Kyle.
 
DejaWiz said:
The MSRP of the non-FE 1070 was $379, regardless if there was gouging/AIB-specific pricing gouging going on or not.


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I explicitly did NOT type "show me some advance press releases propagandizing what the price what might be." Instead, I typed "[a]t launch and for a long time thereafter, how many cards could easily be found for about $379? Instead, $449 more or less was the minimum price."

The press release could have look now and get a 1070 for $3.50 from a Loch Ness Monster. What matters, and what I asked was the pricing on the cards, and to clarify I mean non-Founders 1070s, that were actually available for purchase at launch, just after launch, and for the next several months after that.

When I looked, when cards were reviewed on [H], when people were commenting, the price floor was generally about $449.
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
So because you didn't sign the NDA, you thought it was okay to undercut all the other reviewers who did? Because why? You want to spite Nvidia or something?
I'd like to mention that Steve (GamersNexus) didn't sign recent AMD NDA's, but still managed to source early Ryzen chips and chose not to publish until the NDA date out of respect for other reviewers.

This is a scummy move.
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Give me a break, no one forced the other reviewers to sign the NDA. You pays your money, you takes your chances.

And you can bet the farm that if situations were reversed, not a single other reviewer would event think twice about cutting Kyle's legs off if he had signed the NDA.
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
So because you didn't sign the NDA, you thought it was okay to undercut all the other reviewers who did? Because why? You want to spite Nvidia or something?
I'd like to mention that Steve (GamersNexus) didn't sign recent AMD NDA's, but still managed to source early Ryzen chips and chose not to publish until the NDA date out of respect for other reviewers.

This is a scummy move.
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the card is available for purchase... it is fair game I would say.

If the Ryzen chip Steve had was a retail sample then I don't know why he didn't test it. Seems like a cop out to say it's out of respect for other reviewers to me. Also could be that he didn't want to put his access / relationship with AMD in jeopardy. At the end of the day I don't think journalists should hold back on testing things if they aren't bound by NDA, the sooner info is out the better for consumers to make a purchasing decision.
 
DejaWiz said:
GTX 970 - $329
GTX 1070 - $379
RTX 2070 - $599

Smokin' crack lately, nVidia?

Thanks for putting in the time and effort for another amazing review, [H]!
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Gotta pay for that die size man. But you are right. Technically speaking it's close to a side step from a 1080 with a slightly higher price. The value is NOT there.
 
Well there are some people on this forum that are as deeply committed to promoting Nvidia (and Intel) as much as SemiAccurate's Charlie seems to despise those to companies.
 
Thanks for the review. Think I am going to wait until the 3 series or whatever AMD puts out. My 1070 isn't exactly a beast but I should manage for at least one more year. Price / performance ratio is horrible this round. No thanks

So glad the [H] community, as a whole, decided not to sign the NDA. Ashamed to say I voted "yes, sign it". Thanks for proving me wrong.
 
dgz said:
Thanks for the review. Think I am going to wait until the 3 series or whatever AMD puts out. My 1070 isn't exactly a beast but I should manage for at least one more year. Price / performance ratio is horrible this round. No thanks

So glad the [H] community, as a whole, decided not to sign the NDA. Ashamed to say I voted "yes, sign it". Thanks for proving me wrong.
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You know, I did too. Always glad to be proved wrong. That said, I really hoped the card was more impressive.

Right now, I'm rocking a 970 for 1080p gaming, and there are games today don't run very well with much eye candy turned on. The 20x0 series seems like a bust for me, but maybe a used 1070 would make sense. Just scared of getting a coin-mining-scarred card.
 
Well now, [H] getting media coverage by not bending over to a vary questionable NDA and then publishes a review out of sync with the nvidia marketing machine instead of being just acting as an extension of it.

Well done.
 
DigitalGriffin said:
Gotta pay for that die size man. But you are right. Technically speaking it's close to a side step from a 1080 with a slightly higher price. The value is NOT there.
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Bit higher performance, bit higher price, loaded with new technology... How is that not value?

And for those repeating old information with respect to ray-tracing: we have examples of it struggling at 1080p and running well at 4k, from the same event that you are 'remembering'. We are very likely to see decent performance and the ability to tune that performance with respect to quality as needed, which the same devs have also said.

You may go back to bitching about NDAs.
 
kdh said:
Smashing review but a few questions. Are you giving the MSI card a gold award because MSI over built the card and it performed well? Or did you factor in cost of the card as well? I have no doubt the card deserved a gold rating for the way its built, but the cost vs performance over a basic 1080 is a little disappointing. Silver would have been a better alignment when you factor in cost.
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Can't you occasionally find new 1080ti's on sale for about $600 at this point, like when Ebay does its periodic 15% off site wide discounts?
 
IdiotInCharge said:
Bit higher performance, bit higher price, loaded with new technology... How is that not value?

And for those repeating old information with respect to ray-tracing: we have examples of it struggling at 1080p and running well at 4k, from the same event that you are 'remembering'. We are very likely to see decent performance and the ability to tune that performance with respect to quality as needed, which the same devs have also said.

You may go back to bitching about NDAs.
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Because it's a mid range card, that if there were real competition from AMD, should cost no more than about $349!
 
Teenyman45 said:
Because it's a mid range card, that if there were real competition from AMD, should cost no more than about $349!
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It has an enormous die for a mid-range card, and performs even better.

And you can keep the AMD red herring: they're a non-argument when they only occasionally almost catch up to Nvidia's previous generation.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
Bit higher performance, bit higher price, loaded with new technology... How is that not value?

And for those repeating old information with respect to ray-tracing: we have examples of it struggling at 1080p and running well at 4k, from the same event that you are 'remembering'. We are very likely to see decent performance and the ability to tune that performance with respect to quality as needed, which the same devs have also said.

You may go back to bitching about NDAs.
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Historically speaking, you got a bit higher performance for same price generation to generation. Though pascal FE broke that model slightly, this is a step further.

People can argue whatever they want, but that new technology may or may not actually materialize in the bulk of games, and not everyone values buying something for such an unknown. We also have no idea how intensive that tech is going to be, and what limits these cards have when using it. Also a lot of people take events and presentations with a healthy dose of salt. How often do these things deliver exactly or better than what was presented, especially in the gaming world?

Its a judgement call.
 
Aireoth said:
but that new technology may or may not actually materialize in the bulk of games
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Ray-tracing isn't an 'if' question, it's a 'when' question, and always has been- more appropriately, since it has been released in hardware sooner than anyone really expected, the question should be refined to 'will it be relevant in time to use it effectively on the 2000-series'?

Aireoth said:
Also a lot of people take events and presentations with a healthy dose of salt. How often do these things deliver exactly or better than what was presented, especially in the gaming world?
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It's most certainly a judgement call- my argument is that it's working, so we're more likely to see it than not. We still may not see it well-implemented until some future generation of GPUs is released! And it may work great next month. That's fair.
 
Modred189 said:
Or... good business?
Why would they leave money on the table? The RTX 2070 is going to be the top show on the block for a while, no AMD competition. The results here show it being essentially the best 1440 GPU, with extra features. And don't forget e-peen value.

Don't blame Nvidia if AMD gpus suck and they are willing to capitalize. If we pay for the cards, they will make them.
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Cause major corporation are a charity and should be giving out what can be considered a luxury item. The 2080ti shouldn't cost more then $10 over their cost to make.
/s

As much as the prices suck you are running your buiesness wrong if you live money on the table. Companies like Nvidia do tons of market research to get the most per sale. With the lack of competition they command the market. They are sale everything they can produce. Why would you sale for a lower price? Once sales start declining then you can expect a price cut.
 
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IdiotInCharge said:
Ray-tracing isn't an 'if' question, it's a 'when' question, and always has been- more appropriately, since it has been released in hardware sooner than anyone really expected, the question should be refined to 'will it be relevant in time to use it effectively on the 2000-series'?



It's most certainly a judgement call- my argument is that it's working, so we're more likely to see it than not. We still may not see it well-implemented until some future generation of GPUs is released! And it may work great next month. That's fair.
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You answered your own question.

I am a believer in ray tracing, but I do not believe this is the generation of GPU's that will truly deliver it.
 
Aireoth said:
You answered your own question.

I am a believer in ray tracing, but I do not believe this is the generation of GPU's that will truly deliver it.
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Hopefully we find out in December when BFV launches. If DICE can’t do it right no one can.

All these reviews are kind of incomplete until nVidia actually enables a good chunk of the die...

noobferguson said:
Can't click this review hard enough. Must. Generate. MORE REVENUE.

Fuck NvDA and their dirty pool.
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I donate to patreon which has to be worth a whole lot of clicks. I am going to go up my donation when I get home.
 
bountycode said:
Kyle, Thanks for the great review and for standing up to NVidia's unfair NDA requirements. Well done!
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I agree. The 2070 performance is IMHO meh at best. As I expected to be. The price manipulation still continues and you better believe the +10%+ Nvidia tax will be on the MSRP on those cards as well. Those 2070's will hit over the 600 range easily, pretty much close to the 1080ti pricing ATM. Will the 2070 due 2.5 times performance of the regular 1070 that I purchased for 240 bucks???
Newp. All of my past comments still stand on this matter and I shall add the following.

1. As we head toward the holiday season (November is around the corner) Black Friday and Cyber Monday has been extended to more than two weeks or so. Because of this any real sale being stated will be offset by the market manipulation of increased prices of current stock on hand. Meaning... There ain't to be any real sales like there was last year.

2. Because of this type of market manipulation coming from Memory corps and Nvidia, IMHO this has had an effect on 3rd quarter computer sales. I mean come on... who can really afford a video card that costs more than 1 months rent in some places.

I have been very disappointed of late concerning the overall health of the market for us people who build rigs. My computer last year, if you purchased the same components from the same companies, the computer cost would be $65 dollars more than last year. This.... IS.... Bad.... This gouging has got to stop. People can not update their rigs as quickly as they used to and because of that the stagnation of the market is happening once again.

Short term profits disregarding long term ones... Sound like we are heading towards a global down turn soon (probably sideways) and the corporations are trying to grab as much money as they can...

And we the customers get stuck with sticker shock.
 
Teenyman45 said:
I explicitly did NOT type "show me some advance press releases propagandizing what the price what might be." Instead, I typed "[a]t launch and for a long time thereafter, how many cards could easily be found for about $379? Instead, $449 more or less was the minimum price."

The press release could have look now and get a 1070 for $3.50 from a Loch Ness Monster. What matters, and what I asked was the pricing on the cards, and to clarify I mean non-Founders 1070s, that were actually available for purchase at launch, just after launch, and for the next several months after that.

When I looked, when cards were reviewed on [H], when people were commenting, the price floor was generally about $449.
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LOL, my point still stands. AIB 1070 MSRP was conveyed to be $379...if they felt the need to increase it due to gouging, then that is a completely separate issue.

MSRP for the 1080Ti sure got surpassed during the mining craze when they were selling for $1200+, but the original MSRP didn't get magically increased to those inflated prices.
 
I find it interesting that NVIDIA is now reaping the pain of their NDA. Places with Journalists like [H]ardocp will have sources that are friendly to them. Some of these sources will be retailers that work with Addon Card Vendors. Hence from this point forward after the small Lull when Nvidia was the only retailer... HardOCP can get their hands on hardware in advance of the market and get reviews up and going. Plenty of 'overseas' vendors will work with someone like them. Imagine if in the link they also perhaps posted a link where people could go and order the card in question from partners of the vendor in question. How do you police that? Answer is you don't.

In addition, as long as Kyle continues to pursue advance versions of these cards and doesn't poison the well for the AIB manufacturers who's product he released reviews on, (spreads the wealth), then you are sure to see reviewers who are now being shot in the shorts for clicks (their lifeblood) turn and engage a lawyer to be released from the predatory NDA they had to sign. Otherwise they don't care about an NVIDIA Embargo, but just look to [H]ard OCP to release a review so they can be the first second.
 
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Well done. As others have requested, if you have the change, comments on noise and a comparison to the 1080 Ti would be great additions to this review.
 
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