US Army is Investigating a Quad Bore Rifle

Cool tech but it isn't practical. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be looked into, but nowhere near a formidable weapon.

Aireoth said:
Yep, this gun is likely only promising from a theoretical and design stand point.

Well the current guns we predominantly use in NATO are Vietnam Era shit. the M14 and M16 and their variants, even the newer M4 is just a cut down M16. The reality is there is already a superior replacement to those guns, the HK416 which is far superior to the M series in every way.
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The HK416 is just as AR-15 with a different gas piston design. It has a lot of problems that traditional ARs don't have. It doesn't like the new standard issue M855A1 ammo and has reliability problems with it. It is over gassed. It is heavier. It has more recoil. The handguard is thicker. Suppressors make the cyclic rate of fire in full auto too fast. The Norwegian versions had all kinds of issues such as the dust cover freezing shut to the point their special forces started using Colt Canada C8 carbines (traditional ARs). The only advantage it has is that it requires less time to clean.

The AR has gone through a lot of improvements over the years. The Army refuses to upgrade the M4 and continues to shelve upgrade programs. The standard issue M4A1 is circa ~2000. They refuse to move to CHF barrels, a better barrel profile, lighter free floating rails, and whatnot. There are new BCGs out there that will also increase reliability.

The USAF is now obtaining an M4 upgrade superior to the Army's M4 and the USMC's M27 (HK416) because they're the only one with their head on straight. It is the same rifle SOCOM will be getting more or less.

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CHF barrels, better profile (though my understanding still not ideal), rail, ect. Sounds like they may start issuing the new BCGs with the new coatings sometime down the road.

The main draw of the HK 416 is that is it made in the Eurozone. So if you make your acquisition program exclusive to the Eurozone (like France) you can get an AR-15. The countries that have more leeway seem to go with Colt Canada, such as the British. They didn't seem to care for the 416 after testing and bought new Colt Canada rifles instead.
 
N4CR said:
automatically triggering object tracking sight
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I've done the whole TrackingPoint thing and it's actually a PITA because you have to acquire your target twice. It's precise but slow. IIRC Trijicon is working on an with a self-adjusting reticle that tells you where your point of impact is as opposed to what your point of aim is. That seems like a likelier next step.
 
My favorite thing about gun posts is how triggered gun aficionados get when someone calls a magazine a "clip." I'm sure those guys never use a nickname for any tool, or device, and always speak with exemplary political correctness. Its also a certainty that they have never referred to their penis as anything other than a penis. But say clip instead of magazine... AGGGGHHHHH!!!

Sorry I had to :)
 
nubbin77 said:
My favorite thing about gun posts is how triggered gun aficionados get when someone calls a magazine a "clip." I'm sure those guys never use a nickname for any tool, or device, and always speak with exemplary political correctness. Its also a certainty that they have never referred to their penis as anything other than a penis. But say clip instead of magazine... AGGGGHHHHH!!!

Sorry I had to :)
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I slip sometimes too, clip just rolls off the tongue pretty quickly. And in the end, I try not to make it so people think all gun owners are dicks....sorry, that is the wrong term. I mean to say "insensitive perfectionists".
 
Surely that barrel would add too much weight for someone to be wanting to carry around all day.
 
It could possibly classify as a magazine or a cartridge, depending on technical nuances.

Darunion said:
How many of those 4 round 'boxes' does one have to carry around? Seems bulky


Actually it might need a new definition? It is a 4 bullet cartridge that gets loaded into the rifle. And then I would assume discarded because it cannot be reloaded as the bullets are built into it. So either thrown out or saved and sent back to the mfg.
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Axman said:
I've done the whole TrackingPoint thing and it's actually a PITA because you have to acquire your target twice. It's precise but slow. IIRC Trijicon is working on an with a self-adjusting reticle that tells you where your point of impact is as opposed to what your point of aim is. That seems like a likelier next step.
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That sounds really cool but would require certain loads to work.
Why acquire twice? What language did you code it in? Would you do further development on it if an opportunity came up?
 
Are you all really that ignorant? This is a proof of concept more than anything. I'm sure the guy has patented the tech in the base weapon and the military will convert it into something they can field. Do you really think they'd send anyone out with four rounds per magazine??? Come on...
 
Darunion said:
I am curious if the air pressure of the bullets flying in close proximity could interfere with their trajectory at all.
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Yup, specially when they transition from supersonic back to subsonic at extreme range. No way this would work well as someone thought for sniping. Not with 4 rounds in the air. Now change it up as suggested and fire those rounds individually and you are back in business.
 
N4CR said:
Why acquire twice?
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I didn't do any of the coding, I just pulled the trigger.

The way it works is that you acquire your target and tag it in the digital scope which is parallel to the bore. At 1000 yards bullet drop for .338 Lapua is a couple of feet, so the reticle moves to meet where the bullet is going to drop to. Then you have to aim again to bring the reticle back onto the target before it locks up and fires. And it doesn't correct for windage; they had an actual sniper help me with that.

It really goes against modern shooting doctrine but it makes sense if you're hunting and want to ensure an ethical cull.
 
Wolf-R1 said:
Are you all really that ignorant? This is a proof of concept more than anything. I'm sure the guy has patented the tech in the base weapon and the military will convert it into something they can field. Do you really think they'd send anyone out with four rounds per magazine??? Come on...
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It's not 4 rounds per magazine, look at the pics man, it's a "cartridge-block" with 4 rounds, and the cartridge-blocks stack inside another magazine, probably not more than 20 blocks at most in the weapon at one time.
 
Axman said:
I didn't do any of the coding, I just pulled the trigger.

The way it works is that you acquire your target and tag it in the digital scope which is parallel to the bore. At 1000 yards bullet drop for .338 Lapua is a couple of feet, so the reticle moves to meet where the bullet is going to drop to. Then you have to aim again to bring the reticle back onto the target before it locks up and fires. And it doesn't correct for windage; they had an actual sniper help me with that.

It really goes against modern shooting doctrine but it makes sense if you're hunting and want to ensure an ethical cull.
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I like the sound of it. I have been shooting 600 yards with my kid for a few weeks now. We have been using my Model 700 in .223 Remington and she's deadly out to 500 meters but as soon as we push for 600 she can't hit the steel. I still don't know what we have wrong but it's not a perfect shooting range, shooting uphill, a lot of cross wind up there, seems like no mater what I do the rounds always drop short. Possible we are just reaching the limits of .223 Remington in those conditions. I know it will shoot farther, but maybe we are going subsonic, maybe the wind. We'll figure it out.

The only real question is will we figure it out before she buys her 6.5 Creedmoor and it becomes moot.
 
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I like this bit from the linked article...
Modern weapons aren’t that far removed from the ones used by George Washington’s army, Grier says. They use a mechanical firing mechanism that’s prone to failure. And from muskets to the AK-47, they fire one bullet at a time.

“What if a rifle could fire more than one bullet at a time and be tied to the tools of the electronic age?” he wondered.
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o_O
 
pcgeekesq said:
I think if the U.S. Military wants an innovative new infantry longarm, they should ask Elon Musk to look into it.
There's no telling what he'd come up with. :)
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He'd call them Pedos when it didn't work.

So yeah, no.
 
N4CR said:
They can have an automatically triggering object tracking sight, that only fires when the gun is precisely and correctly aligned to target. Now you don't need a specialised sniper, any grunt can use this weapon with little training.
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Already been done.

 
lcpiper said:
We'll figure it out.
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Check out the Burris Eliminator, it does the same holdover estimation and it doesn't cost nearly as much. It doesn't do the recording or target tracking and the other stuff but it also won't bite you. The TP reticle has so much info, you start leaning into it...
 
Axman said:
Check out the Burris Eliminator, it does the same holdover estimation and it doesn't cost nearly as much. It doesn't do the recording or target tracking and the other stuff but it also won't bite you. The TP reticle has so much info, you start leaning into it...
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She wants to learn how to do it the "analog" way. That way she is sure she's understanding all the mechanics involved.
 
my thought when I saw the article was that this was some sort of electromagnetic acceleration device, or a "rail gun". looks incredibly small for that purpose. but that would allow steel slugs to be inside the aluminum "magazine".
 
jiminator said:
my thought when I saw the article was that this was some sort of electromagnetic acceleration device, or a "rail gun". looks incredibly small for that purpose. but that would allow steel slugs to be inside the aluminum "magazine".
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No, I think the basics of it are that it uses an electronic actuator to drive a firing pin against the primer, and therefor needs no recoil driven action to load the next round or cock the weapon for firing. No gas operated dirty bullshit at all really. The four round part is a little off maybe but there is still realistic room for it as long as you give up on firing all four simultaneously and instead single-fire or burst fire it. Go three rounds and burst it, probably be pretty wicked that way.
 
Better for the best stuff to come out of an American garage than a Russian or Chinese or Saudi garage.
 
lcpiper said:
No gas operated dirty bullshit at all really.
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I'm assuming it still uses a burning propellant, which means there will be fouling at the forcing cones like with revolvers. Trading mechanical operating systems for electronic ones won't necessarily make them more reliable unless they're well overbuilt, and that adds other complications. It's not like there aren't electronic loading and firing guns in the military, but I can't think of any that aren't mounted.
 
Axman said:
I'm assuming it still uses a burning propellant, which means there will be fouling at the forcing cones like with revolvers. Trading mechanical operating systems for electronic ones won't necessarily make them more reliable unless they're well overbuilt, and that adds other complications. It's not like there aren't electronic loading and firing guns in the military, but I can't think of any that aren't mounted.
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Agreed. I had not thought of that. I was so focused on basic functionality and the import/impact regarding weight, I had failed to think about how he may be solving mating the "cartridge-block" to the breach.
 
lcpiper said:
I like the sound of it. I have been shooting 600 yards with my kid for a few weeks now. We have been using my Model 700 in .223 Remington and she's deadly out to 500 meters but as soon as we push for 600 she can't hit the steel. I still don't know what we have wrong but it's not a perfect shooting range, shooting uphill, a lot of cross wind up there, seems like no mater what I do the rounds always drop short. Possible we are just reaching the limits of .223 Remington in those conditions. I know it will shoot farther, but maybe we are going subsonic, maybe the wind. We'll figure it out.

The only real question is will we figure it out before she buys her 6.5 Creedmoor and it becomes moot.
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I get consistent 8 inch groups with my 18 inch DD using 55gr federal 556 at 600 yds. I can hit a 12 inch steel plate at 800 yds as well, but that's getting harder. Now if I step up to 77gr match grade bthp I can hit steel at 800 without too much effort. Past 800 the slightest gust of wind seems to push the bullet way off course.
 
A video here : https://www.fdmunitions.com/

It does not show too much. 3 blocks load at once. An electronic ignition system for the primer and propellant. "Bullets" and magazines would be out. On a whole it does not seem practical.
 
The Mad Atheist said:
I can only see this as a special forces infil mission at best and made in limited numbers.

Would love to have a seat at the weapon demo!
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Yeah, reading the article, my first question was "Does it have a Big Red Button?"
 
1.1.2.3.5... said:
I get consistent 8 inch groups with my 18 inch DD using 55gr federal 556 at 600 yds. I can hit a 12 inch steel plate at 800 yds as well, but that's getting harder. Now if I step up to 77gr match grade bthp I can hit steel at 800 without too much effort. Past 800 the slightest gust of wind seems to push the bullet way off course.
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Actually, I was entertaining the idea that the steel target that is up there on the hill is not perfectly vertical and that a combination of the round's trajectory "falling" into the target may be "bouncing"/fragmenting forward off the steel and impacting back down the hill making it look like a miss. The absence of sound, another sign of a hit bothers. I just have a hard time wondering why no matter what we have tried, it looks like we consistently hit short of the target.
 
nubbin77 said:
My favorite thing about gun posts is how triggered gun aficionados get when someone calls a magazine a "clip." I'm sure those guys never use a nickname for any tool, or device, and always speak with exemplary political correctness. Its also a certainty that they have never referred to their penis as anything other than a penis. But say clip instead of magazine... AGGGGHHHHH!!!

Sorry I had to :)
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Honestly, there's so much terminology misuse floating around firearms and gun control.
It may seem pedantic, but it will generally serve as notice that the person is simply rattling off dogma, rather than in possession of actual KNOWLEDGE.
 
The only reason the army ordered a copy of this gun is so the guy in charge could fark around with it on the range. They do that all the time. If you work your ass off for 25 years to get in a position to make decisions like this, of course you are going to use it to get your hands on some fun toys.
 
oops, just thought of something ...... this guy is a civilian, building his new rifle from his garage ........ The words "fires more than one round with a single pull of the trigger" just popped into my head, followed by "oh fuck !"

Nobody wants to comment on the idea that this guy may have committed a felony by making a machinegun?

The "may have" is there because although the guy was talking about a "powershot" mode where the rifle fires four rounds simultaneously, doesn't mean his prototype actually does this. Maybe he was keeping this limitation in mind.

A guy here at work said something about a tax stamp, the law says no new machineguns can be had, only the existing ones. An exception for sales to law enforcement and military of course.
 
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lcpiper said:
oops, just thought of something ...... this guy is a civilian, building his new rifle from his garage ........ The words "fires more than one round with a single pull of the trigger" just popped into my head, followed by "oh fuck !"
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Hmm interesting point. Just to argue for fun, is it 1 round with 4 projectiles similar to a shotshell? Or would it not be because each one has a separate ignition per projectile?

For the automatic fire mode of it, maybe he has his current prototype without that ability.
 
Darunion said:
Hmm interesting point. Just to argue for fun, is it 1 round with 4 projectiles similar to a shotshell? Or would it not be because each one has a separate ignition per projectile?

For the automatic fire mode of it, maybe he has his current prototype without that ability.
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As you note, we lack details for sure, and BATF would have to decide. I would say that following the Las Vegas shooting Bump Stock issue, that BATF would tend to lean toward calling it a machine gun. But if the gun can't actually do the powershot thing, and if he called the Military in early on in the process, between the BATF and the Military, the guy might be golden.

But if he has made and sold any of these, "transferred" them to others who are not police or military, and they can shoot four rounds with a single pull, he might have fucked himself with this.
 
lcpiper said:
As you note, we lack details for sure, and BATF would have to decide. I would say that following the Las Vegas shooting Bump Stock issue, that BATF would tend to lean toward calling it a machine gun. But if the gun can't actually do the powershot thing, and if he called the Military in early on in the process, between the BATF and the Military, the guy might be golden.

But if he has made and sold any of these, "transferred" them to others who are not police or military, and they can shoot four rounds with a single pull, he might have fucked himself with this.
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I'm of the understanding he only has been performing R&D prototypes, presumably with proper authorization, for prospective sale to the military. Nothing wrong with that. Bunches of companies make military components that would be impermissible for civil sale.
 
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